The whole pathway system is a flake.

The AIS choose players from the second tier of aus football. Meaning each states tier 1 state league clubs.

Each states tier 1 IE: NSWPL or VICPL or QLDPL clubs are heavily reliant on cash and resources provided to keep them viably operating. This causes conflicts in their selection processes which is then later pushed at AIS & NSWIS selectors. Therefore what is being offered to the AIS and NSWIS as options for selection is conflicted with respect to genuine talent. This is also why today many are complaining there is nothing in the way of talent coming through the system.

So basically the cream are not reaching the top as there is a cream filter in place in the tier 1 of each states top league. This does not allow the cream to reach AIS or NSWIS and instead fill these spots with players who are a conflict of best talent.

Anything below tier 1 in each state amounts to poorly run clubs with poor coaches. Tier 1 are at least semi pro in the way they run their clubs. Tier 2 are complete amatuers and contributing nothing.

Cream would rise to the top if their was not the massive processing removing the cream and leaving just watered down milk.

The whole system is terrible. The system being so bad and corrupt is also the reason for all these private academies leeching of people who the system failed.

Sorry to say this but football here has not changed in over 30 years from what i've seen. It doesn't appear to matter who replaces who, what clubs replace what clubs or which systems replace what systems.

The open trial processes are a pisstake to make people think there is open fair transparency and the best players will be selected. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree

The whole pathway system is a flake.

The AIS choose players from the second tier of aus football. Meaning each states tier 1 state league clubs.

Each states tier 1 IE: NSWPL or VICPL or QLDPL clubs are heavily reliant on cash and resources provided to keep them viably operating. This causes conflicts in their selection processes which is then later pushed at AIS & NSWIS selectors. Therefore what is being offered to the AIS and NSWIS as options for selection is conflicted with respect to genuine talent. This is also why today many are complaining there is nothing in the way of talent coming through the system.

So basically the cream are not reaching the top as there is a cream filter in place in the tier 1 of each states top league. This does not allow the cream to reach AIS or NSWIS and instead fill these spots with players who are a conflict of best talent.

Anything below tier 1 in each state amounts to poorly run clubs with poor coaches. Tier 1 are at least semi pro in the way they run their clubs. Tier 2 are complete amatuers and contributing nothing.

Cream would rise to the top if their was not the massive processing removing the cream and leaving just watered down milk.

The whole system is terrible. The system being so bad and corrupt is also the reason for all these private academies leeching of people who the system failed.

Sorry to say this but football here has not changed in over 30 years from what i've seen. It doesn't appear to matter who replaces who, what clubs replace what clubs or which systems replace what systems.

The open trial processes are a pisstake to make people think there is open fair transparency and the best players will be selected. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In a nutshell the whole system is flawed/corrupted/conflicted from top to bottom.

Rather OT, but here's an 8y-o kid from the FootballStar Academy(can't vouch for what right/wrong they're doing) who was featured in a Herald Sun article today:

http://www.footballstaracademy.com.au/player_profiles.asp?id=1442

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/children-dream-of-being-sporting-superstars-rather-than-doctors-and-lawyers-when-they-grow-up/story-e6frf7kx-1226519903271

I may be an outsider (even if an interested one) but have to whole heartily agree with the widening of the pathways rather than the narrowing of them. To steal a pet saying from Chips, the cream rises to the top - the only problem is we tend to throw 90% of the milk away before it has time to do so.

I would replace NTC programs with more SAP programs, so more kids go through rather than the narrow groups currently going through.
And I would expect they play for their clubs on the weekend and not in the isolated enviroment that is currently the case.

I can't say I see that as a good idea.

To abolish NTCs/state teams could possibly stunt the development of a broader pathway.
If the NTCs/state teams are nurtured and run by coaches with a genuine emphasis on development (which, I'll agree, doesn't seem to necessarily be the case with some/most, but these things can't/won't change overnight), these could branch into bigger things; think regional development centres. Given time to get the coaches required in a more widespread area, something like that can become a possibility and, as such, a bigger catchment for the talent pool, allowing for more players to be seen by all. (This includes being picked up quicker by A-League clubs on top of the regular state/AIS pathways.)
If we got rid of these entirely, there's less chance of these sorts of systems - or any at all - finding and developing any possible talent outside of the metro regions.

Great thread fellas =d> so pleased that people with current actual experience are posting, it has been a great read!

I am comming to the firm belief that State teams and the selection process around them should be abolished. They are a waste of resources in a geographically large country.

As to other programs like NTC.

We would be better off making sure more of our youth had access to better coaching.

Remind me, how many promising young AFL players are spread across the globe? :lol:

If Ange wants to know who are the top youth players he needs to get out and watch them play occasionally.

Edited by judy free: 19/11/2012 11:28:50 AM

Arthur until the corruption stops at all levels and we become more transparent you and I know it will not happen. I also think and many would not agree ,now possibly could be the time for our AFL friends to come into our game. The level of communication with Euro clubs very prominent, this week I attended a meeting in a club and caught up with a high profile AFL employee.

Also who would you trust to complete this list To be completely honest the majority do not trust the FFA. Let alone state federations. Not knowing Ange he comes across as a person who say's it as is .I feel he is a new age Manager clear mind no favourites its about the good of the team and club????.

An interesdting comment by Ange Postecoglou on this mornings SEN Radio.

"AFL knows who the top 18 youth players are, unfortunately in our code we wouldn't know who ours are if they were sitting next to us having a coffee."

Also have a listen to Ange on Friday about what he sees in Andrew Naboutt;

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Melbourne-Victory-coach-Ange-Postecoglou/6558

In regards to players being chosen after they have stopped being a stand out player.
I think it is like the king with no clothes. No one wants to admit that they where wrong or that they just don't like the way they play now. So they keep selecting them so no one thinks they are stupid for leaving them out.

http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm

I was praying for better this time.

This is a real problem the current APl trials in queensland, football queensland have nominated players and said they have to be picked and don't even trial.other kids that were picked in state squads have been picked into the teams even if they trialled terrible or not even in the top 16 players.other players who I watched the other night who were head and shoulders above many of the players i.e. in the top 4 or 5 were cut because they didn't have any one pushing for them.Other players who's parents are directors at the clubs or on committee's the kids are picked.This and identify kids at 10 years old and then leaving them in the pathway system even when at 12 or 13 they are no longer one of the better players.The other problem is certain coaches who have kids on the side have contacts in football queensland so these kids also get picked.If your child has talent get a good coach and play somewhere he enjoys playing and when he gets old enough send him overseas and a least they will look at him and give you a true report on where he is at or if they think he will/can make it.

This is spot on. Also, previously Rogic's potential would have been identified by the AIS coaches and he would have been offered a non-residential spot which was put in place for local players.

Tom Rogic indeed had talks with Reading sometime ago hope all goes well for him.

Talking to my contacts in UK I was asked did I know someone called Peter Jess, I'm sure Arthur knows him. he is going to set up an Academy in the UK which will be a platform for placing young Australian with talent into overseas clubs.( Be careful check everything before you jump).

Also from a close friend within the FFA all A-league clubs have been asked to take one or more A.I.S player when the time comes. At the recent Joeys campaign two well know agents one who is a contact of mine, has been closely monitoring this team.

I will only say that they where not impressed, do not be fooled by certain comments being made by some within FFA gloating about certain players.

Australia does have talent no doubt but you need to leave and go to where the teachers have no self interest!!. You see overseas they will tell you YES/NO after giving you a fare go.

Readings policy's is to not sign Australians unless in the National Team . I will confirm this tomorrow .

Some great insight and real scenarios what is happening and not.
Not being anywhere as informed as many of you here just an avid ol football player/follower/parent with 2 boys 1 especially showing some signs I'm just staggered at how many barriers there is to get through for any quality youth player to get noticed/selected and nurtured.
The system is far too complex/favourered not what you know who you know etc,add that just as our road rules/registrations etc should be the same across all states for a start.
The corrupt and biased heirachys at certain clubs across the country should be investigated by the FFA and outed, then again isn't the FFA in question at times ?!

The ongoing hurdle, the divide created since the commencent of the HAL from the ol NSL is still a large anvil on our game to go forward and for our Jnrs no ?

What I do know about Barcelona Youth Academy is that the juniors are expected to be humble and polite. This could not be more emphasised by the my Club members who visited there earlier this year.

As far as I know Nabbout was not on the radar of any pathway, he comes from Melbournes west which is very competitive. Entry into the pathway starts only by being selected for the VCL (Zone Comp) if you don't get selected you cannot be selected for State teams or NTC pathways. So as a 15, 16 17yo he would be competing for 16 spots in his zone team the West.
I think who has been telling you that he was told not to compete at zone is mistaken to put it kindly.

To give you a clearer picture of the Victorian System.

We have 8 metro and 4 country zones.
A junior competition is run every summer between the zones.
Focusing on boys we have U13, U14, U15 and U17 age groups.
This year each squad has 16 and 2 emergencies.
Any player already in NTC squads or skillaroos gets automatic positions in those zone squads based on the kids post code.
To be selected or identified in train on NTC or state squad programs you must play in the VCL this applies to skillaroos as well.
You are tied to a zone based on the club you play for.

Here in lies the problem, the Western Zone could put out 4 or 5 squads in each age group all better than the country zones and better than the players selected in at least three metro zones if not more.

This also applies to the North East Zone. So from these two zones alone you have as a minimum 60 odd kids per age group not competing in the VCL who are better players than those selected in other zones.
All these players are excluded from the pathways.

It is from this background that Nabbout was not identified.

It is this system that the FFV is trying to impose on the APL Clubs and what the fight is central to in Victoria.

Only 2 Clubs from Western Zone will selected into the APL they could have six or eight clubs. WIth this is the loss of corresponding juniors as this is capped like VCL.

D this is the reality is what I am railing against. A huge wastage of talent all due to the fact that the SYSTEM (Read Pathway) takes precedant over the interest of the player.

That's very true Dimi, I did work out that by taking the Birtdays of Australian A-League players and there state of birth last year to work out Relative Age Effect and it does happen here.
I also worked out that only 2-4 players from Victoria will make the roster in the A-League from any one birth year, same as Qld and NNSW. NSW born players produce 6-8 players a year, WA SA TAS ACT altogether might produce 1 player every year.

More research in these areas would be good.

What needs to change is the FFA's and the State Federations belief that only they have the necessary resources to develop the elite player and the clubs do not.
If what is needed to develop the elite player is highly qualified coaches and state of the art facilities the there wouldn't have been any players come through from Africa or South America.
As I wrote above we need a FOOTBALL CULTURE that understands that the boy you see at 10 years of age is no where near what he will be when 21. So why are we making him play like a 21 year old in the EPL?
That's like taking the attitude that to become a Doctor we can take that 10yo and put him straight into University! Of course that is set for failure to become a Doctor you have to go through the necessary childhood learning process.

Same to in Football.

If you look at all the great footballers the common theme was street football. All the greats learnt the game on the street. With no adult interference.
I don't think we can replicate this in today's society but more investment in Futsal or outdoor 5x5 courts might help. These outdoor 5x5 courts are all over Germany, France, Spain and Holland.

The Pathways encourage to much wastage on many levels. The MVFC supporters must be happy that Nabbout never gave up.

Selecting U/12's as potential Professional Players is not an Australian problem or unique to Australia. It is a problem all over the world. The AC Milan Junior program in Italy selects 500 U/12 players every year with lots of resources and expert coaching. How many of the current Senior Squad of AC Milan started at U/12? I'll guess none. Empoli produces more players with less resources. Why?

In recent times only Barcelona's success at developing players and in the past Ajax at high quality has peeked the interest of clubs. Even then Barcelona's and the Worlds greatest player seeds were initially developed in Argentina.[/color]

I think what you and others see as political machinations has more to do with a lack of a FOOTBALL CULTURE.
In Australia our football culture is based on what we see from overseas. And what we mostly look at is the EPL. So in junior player development terms and club operational terms and playing style terms we are using the EPL model. Added to that the Sporting Cultural background of AFL and RL.

Our junior teams are based on winning, because thats the Australian way. Our junior coaches are judged on winning by themselves and externally.
To win junior matches you pick the early physical developers with good motor skills and speed. You keep them tactically structured and you hit long balls over the top or through the channels for the big fast boys to run onto and score.
You teach them to charge at the player with the ball because he/she doesn't have or yet have the technical ability to make the necessary lateral and first touches to avoid your player.
These players then get selected into the pathways and end up playing for Australia but they can't pass a ball or have a first touch but they can run like a gazzalle.

Until we as a Football Community embrace skill versus speed, street smarts over athleticism , dribbling six players versus kicking it long we will always be behind.

Edited by Arthur: 15/11/2012 09:39:54 AM

This should always be PLAN A with the FFA path as PLAN B.

[quote=Let's keep in mind that Reading also tried to sign Rogic before any Australian side (during and after the Nike second chance). Bit sad that he had to a) enter into a competition and b) go overseas to get noticed first.

I'm pretty sure the reason CCM even noticed Rogic was because they had heard about "a kid that Reading tried to sign; the only reason they didn't is because of work permit issues". So he came back and was snapped up.

Edited by Draupnir: 14/11/2012 09:13:51 PM[/quote]


Now that Rogic has an international cap and a few more coming up in the east asian games,he should try again for a work permit.

Let's keep in mind that Reading also tried to sign Rogic before any Australian side (during and after the Nike second chance). Bit sad that he had to a) enter into a competition and b) go overseas to get noticed first.

I'm pretty sure the reason CCM even noticed Rogic was because they had heard about "a kid that Reading tried to sign; the only reason they didn't is because of work permit issues". So he came back and was snapped up.

You may ask - How can a side with the money to sign Del Piero not even know about this kid, before a team playing out of Gosford finds him first?

Edited by Draupnir: 14/11/2012 09:13:51 PM

Hahaha thanks for explaining that to me.

I'm confusing nothing. Do you really think that there is enough room in the current FFA pathways to include all of the talented players ? Of course not. I don't think anyone would say that there is. This is why there are several different and varied ways to become a pro. Do you think that the Nike chance people think they are a 'back door'? It's just a different way. The nike academy in the UK is solely for the purpose of developing and showcasing talented players to clubs. I'm sure neither they nor the clubs that take the players from em see it as an unofficial backdoor. just a different route. The FFA recognise that everyone (HAL clubs etc) should have academies/development programmes. CCM are doing a great job and it would be fantastic if all the clubs could do similar. Doesn't mean the alternatives are rubbish though.

I have two boys that are involved in the FFA pathway system and one that last year played for State, yet subsequently was deemed too small for NTC (due to the fact that 14 year olds were expected to play against under 23’s and he was a smaller October born player).

So from my limited experience with the pathway agenda I believe the comments made on here are nearly all valid to some degree.

The issues have been many such as flaws in the trialling process (not broad enough), talent identification (good players often discarded at first trial by inexperienced coaches), ignorance of Relative Age Effect (general problem), inadequate coaching (not a big enough pool to choose from), politics in selection (coach’s sons, players from ‘big’ clubs etc.) and a robotic playing style.

Over the last 3/4 years I have seen an improvement in the efforts made to improve coaches and coaching techniques, with more and more club coaches and recently retired players undertaking the AFC C licence.

NTC now play against U/18’s which reduces RAE issue.

SAP trials are more extensive. Also this year I have seen kids being allowed to express themselves more.

More and more junior clubs are seeing the benefits of SSG’S and realise they can still get the coveted results by playing the game by following the National Curriculum, which provides better quality players for SAP, State teams, NTC and ultimately AIS.

The bigger stronger kids with less ability are not getting chosen on size alone at the younger ages. This also needs to be monitored to ensure bigger kids with potential are not prejudiced.

As frustrating (and expensive) as it is, I have no doubt that the FFA pathway is moving the game forward. The standards and opportunities across the board are rising rapidly and less and less players with potential to play at the highest levels will be missed. We just need more good coaches and greater investment from HAL clubs in junior development.

Your confusing official FFA pathways as opposed to unofficial backdoors. Nike second chance is not an official pathway, It was a back door. Neither is the backdoor for late bloomers which CCM recognises should be left open. CCM deserve a lot of credit for cutting through the crap and ignoring the system where applicable whereas many other clubs will accept nothing except the system.

Clearer for you now?

I think it's a pretty narrow view to talk about 'the pathway' when all of the discussion above shows that there are in fact many different pathways that a player can take to become a pro. And over and over again it has been said that the FFA also thinks the current options are too narrow and that the HAL and APL clubs are where the development (academies) should be.

And in the best programmes in the world there will always be early and late developers who confound the system and this, to some, becomes the 'proof' that the system isn't working.

A big problem.

As HAL and APL clubs take over coaching youth, there will be less chance for the late developers to miss out.