i never think of gosford being in sydney, even though its probably 1.5 hours by train from where i live

and bring in wollongong wolves who can try and form a rivalry with perth glory, and then canberra united to form a rivalry with wellington phoenix (both with my optimist hat on)

Cannot believe Wollongong has been ignored this long - they already have their own social club, they have an absolutely majestic and recently-renovated stadium in a perfect location, a history of 2 National titles and always drew pretty decently in the NSL. Simply a must. Plus, we would only be competing there with the Dragons who don't exactly flood them with games and it would be their off-season, and the Hawks who aren't much of a threat at 3-4k a game max. Only issue I guess is finance, would need huge community support but they've done that for Wanderers and working so far.

I'm a massive believer in the concept of bringing back the Wolves, and running them along similar lines to CCM. Unfortunately from what I understand there has never been a financial backer/backing group able to come up with the money. And while FFA were happy to start up WSW, and frankly were out of options when they did, I doubt they'd be willing to take a chance on the South Coast.

But if I'm allowed to dream, I'd love to see the Wolves back and connected with the community, tapping into an area as far north as Engadine and Campbelltown, down Bulli and into Wollongong and then all the way to Kiama and even Nowra. That's a catchment area large enough to average a solid 6-7K at the very least, to be played at WIN Stadium.

And as a Sydney fan, that would be another great away game to visit, along with CCM and NJ and now West Sydney.

Edited by thupercoach: 28/12/2012 11:15:22 PM

God yes, think of the away trips - Newcastle, Gosford, Wanderers, Wollongong and Canberra... Would be a proper league. All within 150km of us. And I DO love playing away, even though my favourite away chant is "I want to go home, this town is a sh**hole, I want to go home". Wollongong away would be an absolute dream.

All things considered, Wollongong is a safer bet than Townesville was assuming there is fanincial backing... they have decent football pedigree 2 titles, natural rivals in Western Sydney and SFC, a far better stadium than DairyFarmers, better public transport, and very little competition for media space. Gotta be in the plans for the next expansion, and ahead of Townesville.

Edited by 4wanderer4: 28/12/2012 11:23:35 PM

It's interesting you mention media space - when WV were winning NSL titles I had some mates in Nowra (not at all football fans) who were all aware of how well the Wolves were doing and knew names like coach Nick Theodorakopoulous, Matt Horsley,Scott Chipperfield and Sash Petrovski, all due to the local media. Crowds were about 6-7K which was decent. And this was in the deepest, darkest NSL days.

The Mariners have a pretty good following in the GHFA and KDSFA districts from what I can see, especially in my own club.

The Peninsula is a shocker to get in and out of. I can understand why they only ever go to Brookvale Oval.

The league needs both Wollongong and Canberra to come into the league at same stage. Sydney has enough. To be frank, 10 teams in a league is pretty poor and looks a like a joke to outsiders I would imagine. When we get to 14 or 16, then I reckon we would have the ideal number.

Where would those extra two or four teams come from though?

Penrith
Wollongong
Tasmania
Canberra
2nd Brisbane
2nd Adelaide
Regional Victorian (ie non-Melbourne).
North Queensland if the rebadged Fury stick and twist in the APL.

That's enough teams to get to 16 easily. There's also the possibility of a 2nd NZ team so you could get closer to 20 than 14 if the league was viable enough to attract investors without needing them to lose 5+ million a season.

It adds proper derbies and more local matches to improve away attendances.

Edited by macktheknife: 29/12/2012 12:21:02 AM

Alice springs Goannas with an aboriginal academy

I think they would heavily target the whole shire not just up to Engadine. There are some strong ties between the regions with a large amount of northern Illawarra kids going to school in the shire and shire kids going to uni in Wollongong. Also it would be a bit hard to target 5-6 clubs out of the 25 in the shire association. The area up to Engadine is the area of the shire that would be the easiest to sway though.


[size=1][size=1][size=1]Helensburgh is a hole[/size][/size][/size]

Edited by chillbilly: 29/12/2012 12:30:56 AM

In all seriousness, but once again completely talking out of me arse, Darwin/NT has no representation whatsoever... It is there for the taking :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_Northern_Territory

ideally:
11. wollongong wolves
12. canberra united
13. tasmania united
14. geelong city
15. auckland knights
16. northern fury

Edited by williamn: 29/12/2012 12:35:43 AM

That makes sense. Other than Wollongong and Canberra, are those other regions able or willing to support a football club?

Not sure it's a good idea to call a potential Auckland team the Knights... for anyones sake. They would get the sh**e torn out of them. Canberra and Wollongong are musts, Townesville if they can get some better $$ behind them and the FFA give them a serious go and they have a proper stadium. Tassie is a pipe dream as is Geelong, realistically they are 20 year projects.

I reckon 14 is more realistic than 16. 14 teams would give us 26 rounds and perfect as far as season length and fair draws are concerned.

yeah, in the near future, tasmania and geelong look way off due to the lack of a rectangular stadium. canberra stadium is a little too big for a canberra team, auckland has the dilemma where the best stadium (north harbour) is in a poor location but mt smart stadium would do the job. could also argue that dairy farmers stadium is a bit too big for the fury.
therefore wollongong and auckland are in the best positions stadium wise.

i cant see two teams playing out of suncorp or one at ballymore, one at suncorp working. neither having two teams at hindmarsh or one at hindmarsh and one at adelaide oval.

Dominic Longo is from Tassie

I can't believe people want to go back to Auckland (or NZ at all) after the Knights debacle. And Gosford is a holiday town for Sydneysiders. It's like me driving to Noosa for games.

Edited by wamackie: 29/12/2012 01:01:43 AM

Yeh, so to sum it up...

Pipe Dreams (ie. 20 year minimum, ridiculous $$$)

2nd Adelaide
2nd Brisbane
Tassie
Geelong

ASAP (ie. End of next TV deal)

Canberra
Wollongong

Sooner rather than later (ie. under 8 years, maybe less depending on how things go)

Townesville
Gold Coast?
Auckland

Edited by 4wanderer4: 29/12/2012 01:09:10 AM

#-o at bolded

Edited by wamackie: 29/12/2012 01:13:12 AM

We should have an official expansion thread.

Well I thought it was stupid how someone suggested calling them Knights again, but it is by an absolute mile the next largest city in the area that has no football representation.

Auckland = 1.3 million odd
Gold Coast = 600,000 odd
Canberra = 370,000 odd
Wollongong = 300,000 odd
Townesville = 200,000 odd
Geelong = 200,000 odd
Hobart = 200,000 odd
Launceston = 130,000 odd

Not even close to comparison. Of course other factors come in such as how many people are realistic football supporters, how much media space and corporate dollars are to be won etc but its daylight between Auckland and Canberra (we aren't going back to GC for quite some time I'd suspect).

Christchurch 363,200
Sunshine Coast 251,081

Anyone who hasn't read this, it's fascinating I just found it.


http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/270048/the-decline-of-the-wollongong-wolves/

As you said, it is about other factors. But then again, it is a bit like putting Sydney FC in an area where the game is still considered "wogball" and then hoping that given that it is the only choice, the city will follow. I have a feeling that Auckland may fall into that category, but I know little about NZ other than their people's love of rugby and Bondi.

Why did the first Auckland team fail?

auckland can make the same arguement as gold coast. i would really like to see them in the league and with the assitance of 3 derbies, they should draw well.

Shocking on field first and foremost.
Rubbish stadium miles from major residents, not a great stadium either.
NZ Football federation didn't do them many favours and appeared uninterested.
Poor quality of football.

Those are the key reasons, I'm sure there are more. Also they never drew particularly well in the NSL, all the other A-league clubs that were kept on from NSL ie. Newcastle, Perth, Adelaide (and I think Brisbane) drew significantly higher support base so I'm not sure why FFA thought sticking a new badge on, a new jersey and a bit of branding would fix those issues but it made it worse because the other clubs left them in the dust of the same mediocre NSL - type league. Having said all of this, I could be wrong, that's just my take on it - I've only ever stopped over in Auckland, and was never much of an NSL fan.

Sydney 4,605,992*
Melbourne 4,169,103
Brisbane 2,146,577
Perth 1,832,114
Auckland 1,507,700
Adelaide 1,262,940
Gold Coast-Tweed 576,747
Newcastle 540,002
Canberra-Queanbeyan 418,292
Wellington 395,600
Christchurch 375,900
Central Coast 297,713
Wollongong 288,101
Rockingham+Mandurah+Bunbury 246,173
Sunshine Coast 241,643
Gippsland 239,647
Hobart 216,276
Geelong 210,875
Launceston+Burnie+Devonport 191,963
Townsville 167,636
Cairns 146,477
Darwin 129,062
Toowoomba 125,265
Albury-Wodonga 103,209
Ballarat 95,007
Bendigo 89,666

Source for most of this.

*Includes Central Coast in this figure.

Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 07:52:01 PM

New Zealand Knights 1 : 3 Sydney FC North Harbour Stadium, Auckland Attendance: 9,827
New Zealand Knights 0 : 0 Newcastle Jets North Harbour Stadium, Auckland Attendance: 7,304




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_A-League#Home_and_away_season