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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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+x+x+x+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. AS Monaco, surely one of the best financed clubs in the world, superstars all over the park, ran 3rd last season, only 7800 rocking up to their games on average. Central Coast Mariners, run on the smell of an oily rag playing dog shit football, first wooden spoon in the clubs history, 8100 average gate. Adelaide this season, same deal but pretty sure their average gate would be over 10000. That's a pretty 'realistic' assessment as far as I'm concerned and yet at what point do we say "Okay well we've hit arbitrary financial and crowd targets, let's expand + pro/rel"? Will it take filling every stadium in Australia? Not even France/Germany/Italy do that. Japan was experiencing it's lowest average crowds when they created a second division. Obviously every club being in the black financially would be nice, and hopefully the new tv deal will help in that regard, but I think that's what most of the people who are pro pro/rel are saying, it's the financial model that is preventing these clubs from getting into the black regardless of how much tv money gets allocated to each club. Forget about the tv deal as an excuse. Ffa, like portuguese fa, can get the newscastle jets owner to invest millions into our second tier. The excuses autopilot people are on is ridiculous and plain laughable. Edit. Why do you mention monacos crowds as one of the ills of P/R anyway? Thats weird... is the french league or monaco in danger of folding or something is it? Irrelevant non point. You've totally misread my post, I'm trying to agree with you. He's wind-effected
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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Reedy
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 925,
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+x+x+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. AS Monaco, surely one of the best financed clubs in the world, superstars all over the park, ran 3rd last season, only 7800 rocking up to their games on average. Central Coast Mariners, run on the smell of an oily rag playing dog shit football, first wooden spoon in the clubs history, 8100 average gate. Adelaide this season, same deal but pretty sure their average gate would be over 10000. That's a pretty 'realistic' assessment as far as I'm concerned and yet at what point do we say "Okay well we've hit arbitrary financial and crowd targets, let's expand + pro/rel"? Will it take filling every stadium in Australia? Not even France/Germany/Italy do that. Japan was experiencing it's lowest average crowds when they created a second division. Obviously every club being in the black financially would be nice, and hopefully the new tv deal will help in that regard, but I think that's what most of the people who are pro pro/rel are saying, it's the financial model that is preventing these clubs from getting into the black regardless of how much tv money gets allocated to each club. Forget about the tv deal as an excuse. Ffa, like portuguese fa, can get the newscastle jets owner to invest millions into our second tier. The excuses autopilot people are on is ridiculous and plain laughable. Edit. Why do you mention monacos crowds as one of the ills of P/R anyway? Thats weird... is the french league or monaco in danger of folding or something is it? Irrelevant non point. You've totally misread my post, I'm trying to agree with you.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. AS Monaco, surely one of the best financed clubs in the world, superstars all over the park, ran 3rd last season, only 7800 rocking up to their games on average. Central Coast Mariners, run on the smell of an oily rag playing dog shit football, first wooden spoon in the clubs history, 8100 average gate. Adelaide this season, same deal but pretty sure their average gate would be over 10000. That's a pretty 'realistic' assessment as far as I'm concerned and yet at what point do we say "Okay well we've hit arbitrary financial and crowd targets, let's expand + pro/rel"? Will it take filling every stadium in Australia? Not even France/Germany/Italy do that. Japan was experiencing it's lowest average crowds when they created a second division. Obviously every club being in the black financially would be nice, and hopefully the new tv deal will help in that regard, but I think that's what most of the people who are pro pro/rel are saying, it's the financial model that is preventing these clubs from getting into the black regardless of how much tv money gets allocated to each club. Forget about the tv deal as an excuse. Ffa, like portuguese fa, can get the newscastle jets owner to invest millions into our second tier. The excuses autopilot people are on is ridiculous and plain laughable. Edit. Why do you mention monacos crowds as one of the ills of P/R anyway? Thats weird... is the french league or monaco in danger of folding or something is it? Irrelevant non point. Edit sorry reedy... i didnt read your post properly... i shouldve reponded differently....
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Monfries7
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 22,
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+x+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. The teams cant all be well financed within this model. You dont understand that its the model iteslf, of paying for the entire comp from an ivory tower and one central pool, is not sustainable at tge level that it would need it to be. (Read my mls response to you). You dont understand what youre talking about. We need a complete model overhaul...and incidentally one that allows for pro rel. And yes you are a nix fan dont lie. You let it slip in your first response to me a while ago. I guess you decide who I support then. I don't remember what I said, but I've always been a fan of having NZ in the league. I live in Adelaide and support United FYI.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. The teams cant all be well financed within this model. You dont understand that its the model iteslf, of paying for the entire comp from an ivory tower and one central pool, is not sustainable at tge level that it would need it to be. (Read my mls response to you). You dont understand what youre talking about. We need a complete model overhaul...and incidentally one that allows for pro rel. And yes you are a nix fan dont lie. You let it slip in your first response to me a while ago.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Reedy
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 925,
Visits: 0
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+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. AS Monaco, surely one of the best financed clubs in the world, superstars all over the park, ran 3rd last season, only 7800 rocking up to their games on average. Central Coast Mariners, run on the smell of an oily rag playing dog shit football, first wooden spoon in the clubs history, 8100 average gate. Adelaide this season, same deal but pretty sure their average gate would be over 10000. That's a pretty 'realistic' assessment as far as I'm concerned and yet at what point do we say "Okay well we've hit arbitrary financial and crowd targets, let's expand + pro/rel"? Will it take filling every stadium in Australia? Not even France/Germany/Italy do that. Japan was experiencing it's lowest average crowds when they created a second division. Obviously every club being in the black financially would be nice, and hopefully the new tv deal will help in that regard, but I think that's what most of the people who are pro pro/rel are saying, it's the financial model that is preventing these clubs from getting into the black regardless of how much tv money gets allocated to each club. EDIT: FTR while I advocate pro/rel, I think expanding to 14 rather than 12 teams would be a good compromise as it would alleviate the repetitive fixture issue that SuccessFactor Timmy constantly alludes to. Also, Austrian Bundesliga and Swiss leagues both have 10 team comps with pro/rel and seem to go alright.
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Davo1985
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
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+x+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years. ALtho i agree in oart with what you're saying. To say that we should wait until ALL clubs are well financed and well supported is highly unlikely. In pretty much all leagues around the world you have a number of clubs that at any one point are struggling financially. Heck even the afl and nrl have a number of clubs in massive debt despite the tv deals they get in that sport. We have to live with the fact that there will always be some clubs that struggle financially. Waiting another 10-20 years isn't going to change that, even if the broadcast deal triples. All costs rise as a result as well. Pro/Rel is necessary, however not until the league hits 16 teams. Whether we get to 14 then introduce promotion the following 2 years is a possibility, but a full fledged pro/rel system shouldn't happen until the league has expanded and clubs in the supposed 2nd division have got their shit sorted in order to be considered fully professional.
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Monfries7
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 22,
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+xAnyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game. I'm not a nix fan, not sure where you got that from? I don't think being a realist is the same as being a naysayer. Once all of the teams we have are well financed and well supported I'd love to see pro/rel, but save that talk for another 20 years.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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Anyway monfries youre a nix fan. Awful rich of you to tell us how to run our own game.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?" Im going to go ahead and quote myself: " The mls is shit. America are shit at football. This is our future...but even a little more shitty... to repeat myself, the mls is an experiment, and we are an experiment based off that experiment, but with 300million less people and dollars and new cities to break with new franchises. We will forever be a shitter version of mls. We need p/r. Its tthe only way we will truly move forward as a football country. We can create a fiercely competitive 2 tiered system here, that will win the hearts and minds of the currently-non-engaged-football-community in aus, AND help us to start developng great players at the rate we used to and then some. At this rate neither usa or aus are ever winning a world cup, put it that way. Bureaucracy greed and ignorance holding the game back in aus." Youre another blinkered naysayer who wants us to to pander to midget sports and accept a bum deal.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]The NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?" Agree that the incentive to win is there regardless of pro/rel or not. The incentive to NOT LOSE is greater with pro/rel. In most pro american sports and afl here the incentive when youre at the bottom is to keep losing to secure better draft picks, its a joke. [/quote]The only joke here is that you're talking about pro/rel when our league only has 10 teams, most of which are bleeding money No youre wrong as usual. The model is the problem.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Monfries7
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 22,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]The NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?" Agree that the incentive to win is there regardless of pro/rel or not. The incentive to NOT LOSE is greater with pro/rel. In most pro american sports and afl here the incentive when youre at the bottom is to keep losing to secure better draft picks, its a joke. The only joke here is that you're talking about pro/rel when our league only has 10 teams, most of which are bleeding money
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southmelb
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?" Agree that the incentive to win is there regardless of pro/rel or not. The incentive to NOT LOSE is greater with pro/rel. In most pro american sports and afl here the incentive when youre at the bottom is to keep losing to secure better draft picks, its a joke.
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Reedy
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?" Agree that the incentive to win is there regardless of pro/rel or not. The incentive to NOT LOSE is greater with pro/rel.
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aufc_ole
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+xExpansion thread has been converted to P&R thread  Mission accomplished boys
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Expansion thread has been converted to P&R thread
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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Kamaryn
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?"
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southmelb
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What about all those other teams in America that will be stuck in the 2nd tier forever unless the MLS hand picks them to come up? Much like here the yanks have the potential to take our game to another level but choose not to because the other tin pot sports they have that the rest of world doesn't give a shit about have closed up leagues. Leagues like the NFL and NBA Reward crap teams with high draft picks just like the AFL here, even the MLS has a draft, what sort of incentive does that give coaches and teams that aren't at the highest level to strive for something better?
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Monfries7
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term! I'm going to go ahead a quote a guy from an MLS forum I read earlier that sums up perfectly why relegation isn't required, ESPECIALLY when we only have 10 teams, many of which struggle to even get 10k through the gates.
"What is the incentive to win in the NBA, in the NHL, in the MLB, in the NFL? What incentives are there to improve at the Olympics, or in racing? Surely, pro/rel is not the only incentive a team has to win or lose, and surely the consequences of relegation aren't present in the other named leagues or sports? So without relegation, what incentive have the Arizona Cardinals had to become a viable and competitive franchise, or hell, the Chicago Blackhawks? What incentive is there, if not the threat of relegation, for a team like the New York Mets to pull themselves up from the bottom? Is this not a completely bunk argument? MLS teams that win receive cash prizes in league and cup play, they receive cash prizes in the Open Cup, they receive cash prizes in the CCL and the CWC. It depends on their success. They receive cash from jersey and merchandise sales, they receive cash from ticket sales, they receive cash from sponsorship and partnership deals. These are all much easier when the team succeeds, yes? Surely arguing that without the threat of relegation a team has no obligation, desire or duty to win is pure bullshit, right? Likewise, isn't ignoring or handwaving the destructiveness of relegation and the avoidance of it as incentive to win also bullshit?"
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Footballking55
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT! Really this, coupled with the relegation of Man City to the third tier and their subsequent rise, is a big reason why promotion and relegation works. If a big club, such as Man United, is relegated, they pull out all stops to get back into the top division. Indeed, the renewal of Man City to the power house they are is also a great story. The nay sayers who say the big teams must always be in the top division do not know their history. If Brisbane Roar were relegated, their numbers of fans would drop off, but I'm sure the owners would be getting marquee's and whatever else was necessary to get back into the A League rather than sit in the A2 League. The reality is that such a story would actually increase their fan base long term!
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh ! The beauty of P/R. Good point though. Man uniteds relegation sure was the final nail in the coffin for them....................NOT!
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.3K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. Don't need an expanded Top division. Do need P&R So you are in favour of 10 teams. How boring! 10 teams might be the best number for the top-tier of a complete pyramid, I don't know for sure What I do know is that until there is a complete pyramid, you'll never know for sure. Adding 2 teams to the current Cartel will just keep the dumb fucks amused for a while. It adds 2 teams to the bit of the ladder that doesn't matter to anyone.
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeh I am in favour of 14 teams no problem and for a slow careful approach. Also, any big club that gets relegated will in all likelihood yoyo back to the top tier. The fans are likely to follow them still in the second tier, so they will probably still need the big stadium and pay rent for it.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. Don't need an expanded Top division. Do need P&R So you are in favour of 10 teams. How boring!
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MarkfromCroydon
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.7K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. I wouldn't like that. I'd like to see a single top tier league of 18-20 teams that are all financially viable, that all have great stadia for a great matchday experience, that are geographically dispersed so that the majority of the Australian population could access a match within their own local city or area (or say up to 2 hours away), and that all have academies and pathways to foster young talent. Pro/rel is not necessary for that.
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.3K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Would be interesting, but we can't have that eh !
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. Yeah no way both Melbourne or Sydney teams would be relegated This. Dreaming if he thinks the 4 big players get relegated. Edit. Make that 5 big players, if Newcastle are to be allowed to compete on a level playing field with the big 4. Right now the cap is keeping the jets small - remove it and they become an australian football powerhouse.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change.The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. I felt this too....and the real blow was the failure to qualify for the 1998 WC when they drew with Iran 2-2. I was crushed, as I knew a golden opportunity was missed for the NSL. Had they qualified I have no doubt the NSL would still be around in some form and would have been like a hybrid version of the A league and NSL. We lost 7 years in development as a result of Iran coming back and drawing 2-2 Nailed it kavorka. Major turning point for the game... and certainly contributed to creating an opportunity for lowy to hijack the game.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe NSL had a 3-4 year run on pay tv back when many people didn't have it, and the few that did were already split between 2 pay providers, the other issue was aside from showing a few lives games a week the NSL had no other type of coverage on the platform, think of where the NBL sits in the pecking order now at fox but much much worse, most of the televised games featured northern spirit, Perth glory and south Melbourne, not surprisingly these 3 clubs had the biggest crowds, the rest were regularly ignored so the coverage was useless to them, even when abc was showing 1 live game a week they were basically showing the same teams and the only way you got on tv is If you played the 3 mentioned, the south Melbourne games on Sundays were usually delayed as well as only Friday and Saturday night games were shown live. They were also paying peanuts at the time.The game obviously had no internet/social media presence back then, this didn't allow the players to become celebrities, nowadays even the presenters are well known, Tara, bozza etc, back then I think it was Paul wade and mike cockerill, they would be on tv twice a week and then never seen or heard feom again until the following week. You didn't have channels like fox sports news that would have daily NSL segments the way it is now.Would the NSL have survived if a provider like fox had come to the party? Yes, would crowd averages be as big as they are now? No, because you would still have a large number of teams in Sydney and Melbourne where the support would be split. Did the NSL fold at the absolute wrong time? Yes yes yes, it died in 2004 just as the Internet/social side was on the verge of taking off, add World Cup qualification and it's dream land.I have no mentioned sbs coverage at all up until now because back then most only put it on after 10 to watch softcore porn so it had releatively little meaning outside of the few wogs who watched it during the day. Thank you very much for this insight South melbourne. Most interesting and informative as opposed to the scare-mongering. I remember the NSL days, and there were many positives. South Melbourne was one, along with Perth Glory and Adelaide United. It was on the cusp of major change. The metamorphosis into the HAL has not been all it is cracked up to be. We have lost a lot of history. The problem is as you point out we have lost a lot of history. A case in point is the emphasis on Berisha beating Archie's goal scoring record with scant mention or regard given to Mori's real record. While not advocating for or against any team I think the metamorphosis into the HAL is exactly what it is cracked up to be, it is just not what it could be. Too right. I can't believe they disregarded Mori's goal scoring feat. The stats should be combined. HAL is a private venture specifically designed to shit on the past, it has no right to claim real footballs history It's not claiming history. It's about recognition of Mori's (and everyone else's) NSL records. Who cares if the HAL creates it's own stats. It's just the HAL pulling it's own Pud. You are just the other side of the coin to those who are against expansion. I'm against expansion You want a league of only 10 teams? 12, 14 or 16 teams that can't get relegated is going to be just as boring. Maybe worse, more teams seasons will be over sooner You can promote the winner of the 2nd Div if you want though Yes as I said, i want the best of both worlds. I want an expanded league, a second tier plus promotion and relegation between the 2 tiers, plus a play off every year between the Champions of all the NPLs for promotion into Tier 2, provided they have the resources. Gives everyone something to play for and something to aim at. I think it's safe to say that everyone here would like that. The issue at hand however is making it vastly viable, especially for the clubs in the lower division. If a big club gets relegated, there needs to be a large enough parachute payment to cover the losses it will incur, and im not talking about the players on the field, im talking about all other aspects such as covering stadium rent which no doubt will be longer than year on year deals, not to mention the multiple dozens of staff that will also unlikely be on 12 month contracts. The latest TV deal doesn't allow room for payments to setup a second division. Let's get to 14 teams asap and change the fixture setup to be a purely home and away schedule. This will help with repetitive fixture fatigue. Then after the next broadcast deal we can look at introducing a second division with the idea of pro/rele being introduced a few years after that. Perhaps initially promotion only to get the A-league up to 16 teams then introduce relegation. It can be accomplished in 10 years but not sooner imo. The "Theres no money" argument. The money doesnt have to come from the tv deal. Its ffas job to secure investment. If the tv deal that they were responsible for negotiating cant cover essential things like a 2nd divison, (which it can - ffa think its smart to piss the money against the wall with marquee sugar hit fund, among other things) then they have to go above and beyond to keep us relevant and compliant in world football. The "im sorry we are too inept to find money routine" has worn thin now especially in light of the fact that ledman who own the jets invest millions into portuguese league... theyre trying really hard to pretend theres no money out there. They can ask their pal martin lee to stump up the cash. The "in the magical 10 years" argument. When japan korea and china decided to do it. They did it. And their naysayers said the same thing... in ten years... and theres no money. But their respective FAs deemed it necessary and the rest is history. We cant afford to wait 10 years while the lowy regime treats australian domestic football as their play-thing. If they're not up to it, then we need someone who is.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Monfries7
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 22,
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There's no way pro/rel should even be in discussion right now. 9 of the teams currently have a license for 20+ more years securing top flight football. Even after that period I don't see it as necessary. The argument that teams have no incentive to improve without relegation is an absolute cop out
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