[youtube]BoXQf2f2Yxo[/youtube]

I get that.

Hard to fault any of that.

Yeah I've never heard the modern condition of males in our modern culture articulated so well.

That's the change in society. On the other side of the largely failed experiment in feminism is the thousands of women who want a kid and will pass childbearing age without conceiving with a partner. All whilst being force fed a diet of sexualisation and vapid intellect in our media.

One weeps at the future.

Too simplistic a view imo.

The pressures to marry are certainly far less nowadays. I don't know of any of my friends (or anyone really) who have expressed that they have not got married because they may divorce and have to pay child support. They haven't got married because their families (parents) no longer expect them too before having children etc...

I'd like a deeper exploration of why men are opting out of study and work... that would be a much more interesting conversation.

Re: Study. I think a lot of people are forced to make ends meet short term and thus can't afford to study.

Nothing but a way to sell books to the disenfranchised wrapped up in a highly consumable package for news media. Ultimately the majority of these reasons given for men suddenly rejecting marriage have existed far longer than the downward trend. The real contributing factor is society not placing as much value on marriage as it used to. Declining belief in religion amongst young adults and increasingly liberal social views reduce the appeal of traditional societal norms such as marriage. The opinion has shifted from "I need to get married so I can complete my life" to "I don't need to be married to be complete, I may marry someone if I am one day involved with someone I know I will love forever but my life can be full and complete without it."

Add on to that an increasing acceptance of polyamory and the traditional concept of a family unit is losing its weight. Marriage is about tying two people together at the exclusion of others- an increasing number of modern relationships are open (where one or both partners incorporate others into their sexual activities in full knowledge of their partner.) There is little necessity for marriage in this sort of relationship, you can still be life partners and raise children with decreasing amounts of stigma.


You have very little understanding about feminism and what it stands for, don't you? Feminism isn't an experiment, it is a societal reaction to gender-based discrimination. And yes, that includes the imbalance in the courts when it comes to alimony and child support. This disparity in the legal system all stems from the archaic idea that the man is the breadwinner and the woman the home-maker and carer. Feminists don't want women to come out on top, they want to bring everything back to the middle.

Feminism also empowers women to be able to have (or not have) children as they want regardless of the socially-dictated concept of when they should (ie: feminism rejects the idea that you must be married to have children (or that you must have children at all), and posits that a woman sufficiently able to care for a child can do so regardless of her relationship status.)

So your belief that feminism has somehow caused an increase in women who want but do not have children is actually a fallacy- feminism reduces this subset of women! It is patriarchal society dictating the conditions under which motherhood is acceptable that prevents the hypothetical women you speak of from having their hypothetical children and it is patriarchal society that packages women for the male gaze (hyper-sexualised and objectified.) That is why feminism is important!

Scholl, get your panties untwisted.

Correct the following;

Are more women now childless in their 30's and 40's, and is there a sense of regret being aired in feedback and literature?
Have things like dating being replaced with hyper-sexual aps like Tinder?
Are girls being forced into crazy situations like those of Miley Cyrus stripping instead of singing? Sexting?


Yep, Feminism is a great success.

Absolute rubbish. Feminism is about women wanting all the privileges men have (real or imagined) without the responsibility. Feminists could not give a fuck about equality. You only have to look at the double standards they apply to men and women to see this. Feminism has made the world a worse place for everybody- men, women and children. It is based in marxism, with the ultimate goal of destroying capitalism via erosion of the family unit.

Edited by Captain Haddock: 3/12/2013 04:51:13 PM

Spot on!

:lol: at you lecturing about feminism when your source material is your own skewed perception.

It is the straight-up mission statement of modern feminism to pursue equal rights. That is no opinion, it is fact. Feel free to take some gender studies classes if you want to challenge what feminism stands for, it might enlighten you a bit. Feminists do not shirk responsibility, they embrace it by necessity.

There is a natural urge to recoil when you are told you are privileged, a sense of "but I don't have it good, look at all the things society does not give me. I shouldn't feel guilty about others when I am a victim!" Truth is though, if you are male you have a distinct advantage in life. Doubly so if you are white. Ramp it up a lot more if you are from a middle-class or higher family.

Anyone with a moral compass looking objectively at gender roles in our society will see the inequity and want to do something about it. A hyper-masculine sporting forum such as this does not make a cosy breeding ground for this sort of awareness- sport is a traditionally male domain and self-perpetuates inherent masculine norms (you can observe this through the gender divide amongst users)- but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try and offer a competing world view.

I am a vastly privileged person. White, male, straight, young, educated, a professional and from a reasonably well off family. Instead of fearing losing the leg-ups society gives me by virtue of birth and nature I embrace the challenge of fixing what I see as a flawed system. If I can get even one person on this forum to re-assess their views on equality then it is all worth it, even if the vast majority shrink back into their shells in defence of their perceived rights (or worse, attempt to attack me for having the gall to suggest they own privilege.)

Your last line leads me to believe you are trolling, you sound like a '60s "beware the red menace" scaremonger :lol: The merits of capitalism as the one true solution to economic systems is another matter altogether, and has absolutely nothing to do with the family unit.

Excellent retort sir, I have certainly been put in my place.


Well, the burden of proof is on you. Feel free to provide some peer-reviewed studies that indicate women are becoming increasingly childless into their 30's and 40's. I'm sure that may be the case, but the bonus points come in if they correlate to being against their wishes. Choosing to put off motherhood until you are ready/want to be a mother is absolutely a good thing.


Again, provide examples rather than opinion. Bear in mind that mass media is a male-dominated medium with an interest in reinforcing gender roles. If you get your views on feminism from Murdoch's media empire, let's just say that's like getting your opinions on the A-League from Mr. Demitriou.


Geez, I miss the days of being able to meet people on my Amstrad. Oh wait.

Have you considered that sexual freedom may be a by-product of increased access to anonymous communication? There have always been ways to satisfy base desires, technology just makes it quicker and easier. This isn't feminism's fault (nor is it necessarily a bad thing! I am pro being as sexual or asexual as you want to be!)


Yes. Do you know why? Not feminism; patriarchal society. You are describing 'male gaze', where women are objectified to appeal to men. This is the sort of thing that feminism tries to bring to light. No-one should have to use their body to sell themselves (though they should be free to choose to- this is hard though as your choices are formed partially subconsciously and it is difficult to determine what role societal influence has on this process.)

Miley Cyrus is actually arguably feminist in her self portrayal recently- she has gone so extreme that she has become a parody of what the industry wants a woman to be. I personally think she is a bit naive in her implementation if so, but she certainly does get people talking about women in the entertainment industry. I think that is a step in the right direction, if only she had a little more wisdom and confidence behind her to back up her actions with a dismantling of her industry's attitude towards women.


Again, being pressured by males to do something they don't necessarily want to do is not a problem with feminism but a sign that feminism is still important.

And again, there is nothing wrong with sexting if it has informed consent.


Feminism hasn't failed in any way, and by virtue of still existing one can argue that it is in some measure successful. If society stopped caring about fighting for women's rights, I can guarantee things would be a whole lot worse.

Because a mission statement accurately represents the mindset of everyone who believes in a cause...

Would it not be fair to say that the focus should shift from the old hairy armpit Germaine Greer school of thought to a more egalitarian branding?

Can't argue with that.

Ah, ok. It is understandable that you have a negative view on feminism if you think that it hasn't evolved in the last half century (not an insult! it is legitimately a misconception people have!)

Modern feminism is exactly what you are saying you feel it should be shifting to, however it is mired in the stigma of old-school fundamentalist feminism (which was actually only a niche- the best comparison is the hardcore ultraz that rip flares. They are the overwhelming minority but the most vocal and most off-putting to the neutral observer.) So-called radical feminists do exist, however mainstream feminists do not believe they strictly adhere to feminist ideology.

As an addendum, I firmly believe people should have as much or as little body hair as they want without being subjected to social stigma :P

What people think Feminism is: Women = men.
What Feminism actually is: Women > men.
What people actually want: Gender Equality.

/argument

This!

Re OP: true. No faulting that. Could've expanded.

What people think feminism is: Women > Men
What feminism actually is: Women = Men
What people actually want: Feminism, they just don't know it is called that.

You can't spew bullshit and call the end to an argument Afro. You have no experience in feminism (and your behaviour in the relationships thread more than demonstrates that you objectify women, and are thus not a valid source of information on gender relations.) If you honestly think what you said is correct, take some gender studies units (or heck, email a gender studies lecturer)- you will be surprised.

I'll just leave this here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All gender studies teaches is that while males are the root of all evil, and that they should check their privilege.

Scoll, white males are not more privileged than females. Take off your blue-pilled leftist glasses and you'll see that females have many more tangible leg-ups in society than males.

So do ethnic minorities,for that matter.

Why males are surplus to requirements, by Germaine Greer, one of the faces of the Feminist movement.

Yeah, good argument Scoll.

Uh oh here comes a racism thread.

Australia is racist, everyone else is suffering, plight etc.

:lol: you are so naive it is almost pitiful. It would be fantastic if we had the technology to live in other peoples shoes for a short period of time- you could do with it.

Germaine Greer says a lot of things that aren't feminist. She is pretty loopy. If I were to say that Davis_Partik was every member of this forum would be akin to the claims you are making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_Australia

Women in full time positions get paid 17% less than men in Australia. 24% in WA. Tell me again how disadvantaged men are.

Women in hospitality are paid in excess of 20% more than their male counterparts. Tell me again how disadvantaged women are.

*shakes head* you can't honestly think that is a good argument, can you? Picking an underpaid industry that has a skewed workforce. So yes, you are spewing garbage. You can't counter national figures with a subset from a disadvantaged industry.

You, a white male, is lecturing me on the plight of women while also telling me to have empathy? If you've never lived in their shoes, how could you possibly know their plight?

left-tards :roll: