Climate change: Fact or Fiction?


Climate change: Fact or Fiction?

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ricecrackers
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chillbilly wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:
chillbilly wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Fact

End thread.


proof?

there is none.

end thread.



nice pic
whats that supposed to prove?

It is a visual representation of human's effect in changing the climate. If you want another one next time you are at the outskirts a major city look towards the horizon. You should see brown stain of NO2 hanging around. Or you could just look at the city.


nitrogen dioxide? where are the carbon atoms in nitrogen dioxide?
can you explain that to me?
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ricecrackers wrote:
chillbilly wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Fact

End thread.


proof?

there is none.

end thread.



nice pic
whats that supposed to prove?

It is a visual representation of human's effect in changing the climate. If you want another one next time you are at the outskirts a major city look towards the horizon. You should see brown stain of NO2 hanging around. Or you could just look at the city.
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you dont even know who he is
i doubt you know who John Cook is either, but let me tell you, he's nothing more than a dopey web developer who calls himself a scientist

i've actually researched this 97% thing myself and concluded the actual amount of the sample of 'scientists'...and let me tell you it is a sample that voted for man made climate change... is actually far less than 97%.

that's just from deconstructing the questionnaire responses that were linked in the wiki article..was around 50% from memory and didnt take into account the number of scientists who actually didnt answer the question but were assumed to be in agreement because, wait for it,
they werent in disagreement

its pointless though explaining to you new age nutters. you're completely indoctrinated and lack the ability to accept something that contradicts everything you've ever been indoctrinated with via the mass media, Al Gore films, sloppy BBC docos as well as funded alarmists in universities

science doesnt even come into it anymore
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ricecrackers wrote:
i'll just post this up on the next page in case anyone misses it among the pollution of politicking :-$

ricecrackers wrote:
another example of the endemic corruption in our universities on this issue...

Quote:
[size=9]Where Did ’97 Percent’ Global Warming Consensus Figure Come From?[/size]
5:03 PM 05/16/2014





Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/16/where-did-97-percent-global-warming-consensus-figure-come-from/#ixzz328Xarg74


Brandon Schollenberger? Seriously :lol: :lol: :-$ :-$
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Global warming is very real!

The question you should ask is does the human carbon footprint affect global warming?
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i'll just post this up on the next page in case anyone misses it among the pollution of politicking :-$

ricecrackers wrote:
another example of the endemic corruption in our universities on this issue...

Quote:
[size=9]Where Did ’97 Percent’ Global Warming Consensus Figure Come From?[/size]
5:03 PM 05/16/2014

Michael Bastasch
The University of Queensland in Australia is taking legal action to block the release of data used by one of its scientists to come up with the oft-quoted statistic that 97 percent of climate scientists agree that mankind is causing global warming.

Since coming out with this figure last year, climate scientist John Cook of the University of Queensland’s Global Change Institute has been under fire for the methodology he used.

“Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on [anthropogenic global warming] is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research,’’ Cook and his fellow authors wrote in their study which was published in the journal Environmental Research Letters last year.

The university has told climate skeptic blogger Brandon Schollenberger that the data on the study he possesses was illegally obtained and they would take legal action against him if he published it.

“UQ has therefore published all data relating to the paper that is of any scientific value to the wider community,” said Queensland’s acting pro-vice-­chancellor Alastair McEwan.

“UQ withheld only data that could identify research participants who took part in the ­research on condition of anonymity,” McEwan added. “Such conditions are not uncommon in academic ­research, and any breach of confidentiality could deter people from participating in valuable research in the future.”

McEwan said that all the data Cook used to come up with his “97 percent” consensus was published on his blog SkepticalScience.com. The school says it wants to protect the privacy of those surveyed in Cook’s research.

“That’s right. The University of Queensland sent me a threatening letter which threatens me further if I show anyone that letter,” Schollenberger wrote on his blog Thursday. “Confusing, no? It gets stranger. Along with its threats, the University of Queensland included demands.”

“According to it, I’m not just prevented from disclosing any of the ‘intellectual property’ (IP) I’ve gained access to,” Schollenberger added. “I’m prevented from even doing anything which involves using the data. That means I can’t discuss the data. I can’t perform analyses on it. I can’t share anything about it with you.”

“Apparently I badgered Cook too much. I tried too hard to get him to do his duty and try to protect his subjects’ privacy. The University of Queensland needs me to stop. If I don’t, they’ll sue me,” he said.

Cook’s paper has been touted by environmentalists and the Obama administration as evidence that virtually all scientists agree that global warming is a man-made threat.

“Ninety-seven percent of scientists, including, by the way, some who originally disputed the data, have now put that to rest,” President Obama said last year announcing his climate plan. “They’ve acknowledged the planet is warming and human activity is contributing to it.”

[size=7]But Cook’s 97 percent consensus claim was rebutted in subsequent analyses of his study. A paper by five leading climatologists published in the journal Science and Education last year found that Cook’s study misrepresented the views of most consensus scientists.

The definition Cook used to get his consensus was weak, the climatologists said. Only 41 out of the 11,944 published climate studies examined by Cook explicitly stated that mankind caused most of the warming since 1950 — meaning the actual consensus is 0.3 percent.[/size]

[size=7]“It is astonishing that any journal could have published a paper claiming a 97% climate consensus when on the authors’ own analysis the true consensus was well below 1%,” said Dr. David Legates, a geology professor at the University of Delaware and the study’s lead author.[/size]

Queensland’s legal fight with Schollenberger comes while UK news outlets are reporting that one of the world’s top scientific journals rejected a study from five climate scientists for political reasons.

The UK Times reported that a reviewer with the journal Environmental Research Letters rejected the study because it was “harmful” to the climate cause because it “opens the door for oversimplified claims of ‘errors’ and worse from the climate skeptics media side.”

“The problem we now have in the climate community is that some scientists are mixing up their scientific role with that of a climate activist,” Lennart Bengtsson, a research fellow at the University of Reading, told the Times.

Bengtsson was one of the study’s authors and recently joined the camp of scientists skeptical of global warming.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/16/where-did-97-percent-global-warming-consensus-figure-come-from/#ixzz328Xarg74

ricecrackers
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lol at the attempts of guilt by association and the worm has the gall to try to play forum politics to make his point
pathetic
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:

scientific facts arent voted on. its not an election.



No answer. What a surprise.

I notice you have taken your "Science is not consensus" sig thingo off.

Probably because scientific reasoning is very much based on consensus and you looked very much the dill leaving it there to remind everyone how little you understood of the scientific process.

99% of doctors believe vaccinations are a good thing. A few on the lunatic fringe think it's the Devil's poison. Does that make the consensus opinion wrong?

Go on youtube for 5 minutes and you'll find tin-hat wearing ricecracker types denying evolution or general relativity.

Do their lunatic opinions discount millions of man hours of research, theory, observations and evidence?

I'll answer for you seeing you are too ridiculous to answer a simple question. No their opinions don't count for squat.

As an aside I note with interest you believe, with no proof mind you, that the American government is complicit in the MH370 disappearance because they are trying to protect Boeing!? (Despite the fact many Boeing planes have crashed in the past.)

Thuper. Are you sure you want to be taking sides with this bloke?
I agree with him in this matter.
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:-" now back to Munrub's analogy...
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another example of the endemic corruption in our universities on this issue...

Quote:
[size=9]Where Did ’97 Percent’ Global Warming Consensus Figure Come From?[/size]
5:03 PM 05/16/2014

Michael Bastasch
The University of Queensland in Australia is taking legal action to block the release of data used by one of its scientists to come up with the oft-quoted statistic that 97 percent of climate scientists agree that mankind is causing global warming.

Since coming out with this figure last year, climate scientist John Cook of the University of Queensland’s Global Change Institute has been under fire for the methodology he used.

“Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on [anthropogenic global warming] is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research,’’ Cook and his fellow authors wrote in their study which was published in the journal Environmental Research Letters last year.

The university has told climate skeptic blogger Brandon Schollenberger that the data on the study he possesses was illegally obtained and they would take legal action against him if he published it.

“UQ has therefore published all data relating to the paper that is of any scientific value to the wider community,” said Queensland’s acting pro-vice-­chancellor Alastair McEwan.

“UQ withheld only data that could identify research participants who took part in the ­research on condition of anonymity,” McEwan added. “Such conditions are not uncommon in academic ­research, and any breach of confidentiality could deter people from participating in valuable research in the future.”

McEwan said that all the data Cook used to come up with his “97 percent” consensus was published on his blog SkepticalScience.com. The school says it wants to protect the privacy of those surveyed in Cook’s research.

“That’s right. The University of Queensland sent me a threatening letter which threatens me further if I show anyone that letter,” Schollenberger wrote on his blog Thursday. “Confusing, no? It gets stranger. Along with its threats, the University of Queensland included demands.”

“According to it, I’m not just prevented from disclosing any of the ‘intellectual property’ (IP) I’ve gained access to,” Schollenberger added. “I’m prevented from even doing anything which involves using the data. That means I can’t discuss the data. I can’t perform analyses on it. I can’t share anything about it with you.”

“Apparently I badgered Cook too much. I tried too hard to get him to do his duty and try to protect his subjects’ privacy. The University of Queensland needs me to stop. If I don’t, they’ll sue me,” he said.

Cook’s paper has been touted by environmentalists and the Obama administration as evidence that virtually all scientists agree that global warming is a man-made threat.

“Ninety-seven percent of scientists, including, by the way, some who originally disputed the data, have now put that to rest,” President Obama said last year announcing his climate plan. “They’ve acknowledged the planet is warming and human activity is contributing to it.”

[size=7]But Cook’s 97 percent consensus claim was rebutted in subsequent analyses of his study. A paper by five leading climatologists published in the journal Science and Education last year found that Cook’s study misrepresented the views of most consensus scientists.

The definition Cook used to get his consensus was weak, the climatologists said. Only 41 out of the 11,944 published climate studies examined by Cook explicitly stated that mankind caused most of the warming since 1950 — meaning the actual consensus is 0.3 percent.[/size]

[size=7]“It is astonishing that any journal could have published a paper claiming a 97% climate consensus when on the authors’ own analysis the true consensus was well below 1%,” said Dr. David Legates, a geology professor at the University of Delaware and the study’s lead author.[/size]

Queensland’s legal fight with Schollenberger comes while UK news outlets are reporting that one of the world’s top scientific journals rejected a study from five climate scientists for political reasons.

The UK Times reported that a reviewer with the journal Environmental Research Letters rejected the study because it was “harmful” to the climate cause because it “opens the door for oversimplified claims of ‘errors’ and worse from the climate skeptics media side.”

“The problem we now have in the climate community is that some scientists are mixing up their scientific role with that of a climate activist,” Lennart Bengtsson, a research fellow at the University of Reading, told the Times.

Bengtsson was one of the study’s authors and recently joined the camp of scientists skeptical of global warming.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/16/where-did-97-percent-global-warming-consensus-figure-come-from/#ixzz328Xarg74

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Munrubenmuz wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:

scientific facts arent voted on. its not an election.



No answer. What a surprise.

I notice you have taken your "Science is not consensus" sig thingo off.

Probably because scientific reasoning is very much based on consensus and you looked very much the dill leaving it there to remind everyone how little you understood of the scientific process.

99% of doctors believe vaccinations are a good thing. A few on the lunatic fringe think it's the Devil's poison. Does that make the consensus opinion wrong?

Go on youtube for 5 minutes and you'll find tin-hat wearing ricecracker types denying evolution or general relativity.

Do their lunatic opinions discount millions of man hours of research, theory, observations and evidence?

I'll answer for you seeing you are too ridiculous to answer a simple question. No their opinions don't count for squat.

As an aside I note with interest you believe, with no proof mind you, that the American government is complicit in the MH370 disappearance because they are trying to protect Boeing!? (Despite the fact many Boeing planes have crashed in the past.)

Thuper. Are you sure you want to be taking sides with this bloke?


did i change my sig? i felt like changing my sig, big deal. :roll: correlation is not causation. you seem to be a slow learner.
furthermore science is not a consensus. its not a vote.
you're really are boring me now. please stop.
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ricecrackers wrote:

scientific facts arent voted on. its not an election.



No answer. What a surprise.

I notice you have taken your "Science is not consensus" sig thingo off.

Probably because scientific reasoning is very much based on consensus and you looked very much the dill leaving it there to remind everyone how little you understood of the scientific process.

99% of doctors believe vaccinations are a good thing. A few on the lunatic fringe think it's the Devil's poison. Does that make the consensus opinion wrong?

Go on youtube for 5 minutes and you'll find tin-hat wearing ricecracker types denying evolution or general relativity.

Do their lunatic opinions discount millions of man hours of research, theory, observations and evidence?

I'll answer for you seeing you are too ridiculous to answer a simple question. No their opinions don't count for squat.

As an aside I note with interest you believe, with no proof mind you, that the American government is complicit in the MH370 disappearance because they are trying to protect Boeing!? (Despite the fact many Boeing planes have crashed in the past.)

Thuper. Are you sure you want to be taking sides with this bloke?



Member since 2008.


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tbitm wrote:
Wait, do you not believe in the Doppler effect?


:roll:
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Wait, do you not believe in the Doppler effect?
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
ricecrackers wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
For a debate that should be based on science it is clear that, generally speaking, both sides take up their position based on their political leanings.


i'm still waiting for some scientific proof
instead all i've seen are numerous incidences of corruption and ludicrously flawed propaganda, i dont even want to call it science coming from the well funded alarmist cabal

Edited by ricecrackers: 19/5/2014 02:22:12 PM


I shouldn't bite but I will.

Generally speaking the Right, if you can call it that, will accept the science if it supports their position otherwise it just rubbishes whatever research comes out. (Some science good, some science bad.)

There can be no "debate" if one or both of the protagonists are philosophically aligned to a predetermined position.

I am betting that no evidence, no matter how thorough, could sway your position because fundamentally, philosophically and politically you and Thuper are aligned to the Right.

The same goes for the Left.

In matters of science, politics shouldn't come into play.

Irrespective of all that and this is old ground I know but if 97 out of 100 doctors say you have cancer and 3 say you are OK. You're going with the 3 right? (You wouldn't answer me before so I don't expect an answer now.)

And don't tell me it's a poor analogy. It's a perfectly good one and you know it.


my god the stupid doctor cancer analogy again. it has nothing to do with climate change.
i've heard that drone line used hundreds of times already. get some new material.

scientific facts arent voted on. its not an election.

another "religion of science" freak

i remember you were certain they'd find that plane because of the doppler effect. you were so duped by high school science factoids being used in news. just shows how easily you people are to manipulate. just press the right buttons and appeal to your sensitivities.


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ricecrackers wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
For a debate that should be based on science it is clear that, generally speaking, both sides take up their position based on their political leanings.


i'm still waiting for some scientific proof
instead all i've seen are numerous incidences of corruption and ludicrously flawed propaganda, i dont even want to call it science coming from the well funded alarmist cabal

Edited by ricecrackers: 19/5/2014 02:22:12 PM


I shouldn't bite but I will.

Generally speaking the Right, if you can call it that, will accept the science if it supports their position otherwise it just rubbishes whatever research comes out. (Some science good, some science bad.)

There can be no "debate" if one or both of the protagonists are philosophically aligned to a predetermined position.

I am betting that no evidence, no matter how thorough, could sway your position because fundamentally, philosophically and politically you and Thuper are aligned to the Right.

The same goes for the Left.

In matters of science, politics shouldn't come into play.

Irrespective of all that and this is old ground I know but if 97 out of 100 doctors say you have cancer and 3 say you are OK. You're going with the 3 right? (You wouldn't answer me before so I don't expect an answer now.)

And don't tell me it's a poor analogy. It's a perfectly good one and you know it.


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thupercoach wrote:
tbitm wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.
Comparing people that accept the science to religious people that don't believe in science?

Quality analogy.

I'd say ricecrackers is more akin to religious fundamentalists since it doesn't matter what happens to the earth, rising oceans, extreme drought, more extreme weather events, the fall back argument is always going to be "the climate is always changing" so it will never ever get through to him. And this will be the case when Manhattan is gone and we've evolved into mermaids.

Same could be said when evidence that the earth is older than 6000 years old to a fundamentalist "Gods testing you" will counter any evidence to their already held beliefs.


Despite the amount of latest research showing that the Earth hasn't warmed since 1989 and that the modelling done by the initial "climate scientists" was way off the mark, the doomsayers are clinging to their ideology like a drunken man to his bottle. Or a religious nutter to his bible.

Sorry, you guys are the fundamentalists in this debate. The rest of us just want to be left alone by you believers and proselytisers.

Amen.
when you say latest research, can you please put an * next to it and at the bottom say 'not including the 10833 of 10835 of all peer reviewed studies that accepts human induced climate change'

At least be consistent with your use of fundamentalist too, supposedly that what you call people that blindly accept it because scientists do, yet your one study you're quite happy to believe.

13 of the hottest 14 years on record have happened this century

Record droughts

Record amount of wild fires

Poles are melting rapidly (12% per decade)

Sea temperatures have risen a degree in the last 50 years (doesn't sound like much but it's about 5-10%)

Birds are migrating earlier and earlier every year as a response to warmer weather.

But it's nice to see that a hot 1989 is enough evidence for you. Hey, it's at least better than people that experience a particularly cool summer day and call that evidence.

Maybe I gave you too much credit, most climate deniers have moved to the climate has always been changing. The earth is undoubtedly getting hotter.

As a case study, how about you look at the greenhouse affect of Venus, it's the hottest planet on our universe even though it isn't the closest to the sun. Even the side not facing the sun is hotter than the bright side of mercury.

It should just be common sense that adding more greenhouse gasses (which should be undeniable as to what we are doing but look who I'm talking to) to our atmosphere will change our weather too.


Edited by tbitm: 19/5/2014 03:10:18 PM
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ricecrackers wrote:
i assume i'm one of the witches of Salem in this context


Burn, heretic!
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i assume i'm one of the witches of Salem in this context
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tbitm wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.
Comparing people that accept the science to religious people that don't believe in science?

Quality analogy.

I'd say ricecrackers is more akin to religious fundamentalists since it doesn't matter what happens to the earth, rising oceans, extreme drought, more extreme weather events, the fall back argument is always going to be "the climate is always changing" so it will never ever get through to him. And this will be the case when Manhattan is gone and we've evolved into mermaids.

Same could be said when evidence that the earth is older than 6000 years old to a fundamentalist "Gods testing you" will counter any evidence to their already held beliefs.


Despite the amount of latest research showing that the Earth hasn't warmed since 1989 and that the modelling done by the initial "climate scientists" was way off the mark, the doomsayers are clinging to their ideology like a drunken man to his bottle. Or a religious nutter to his bible.

Sorry, you guys are the fundamentalists in this debate. The rest of us just want to be left alone by you believers and proselytisers.

Amen.
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
For a debate that should be based on science it is clear that, generally speaking, both sides take up their position based on their political leanings.


i'm still waiting for some scientific proof
instead all i've seen are numerous incidences of corruption and ludicrously flawed propaganda, i dont even want to call it science coming from the well funded alarmist cabal

Edited by ricecrackers: 19/5/2014 02:22:12 PM
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tbitm wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.
Comparing people that accept the science to religious people that don't believe in science?

Quality analogy.

I'd say ricecrackers is more akin to religious fundamentalists since it doesn't matter what happens to the earth, rising oceans, extreme drought, more extreme weather events, the fall back argument is always going to be "the climate is always changing" so it will never ever get through to him. And this will be the case when Manhattan is gone and we've evolved into mermaids.

Same could be said when evidence that the earth is older than 6000 years old to a fundamentalist "Gods testing you" will counter any evidence to their already held beliefs.


the stupidity of the above post is endless i dont know where to begin :lol:
garden variety indoctrinated kid we have here. too many Al Gore docos
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For a debate that should be based on science it is clear that, generally speaking, both sides take up their position based on their political leanings.

Vote Liberal and you are more likely to think human induced climate change is a crock.

Vote Labour or Greens and you are more likely to think human induced climate change is real.

Weird. (You don't get the same split say with anti-vaxxers for example. And interestingly the UK conservative government is at polar opposites with their Australian Liberal counterparts. "Lord" Monkton excepted.)

It'd be interesting to look at how this philosophical divide evolved.



Edited by munrubenmuz: 19/5/2014 02:15:03 PM


Member since 2008.


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thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.
Comparing people that accept the science to religious people that don't believe in science?

Quality analogy.

I'd say ricecrackers is more akin to religious fundamentalists since it doesn't matter what happens to the earth, rising oceans, extreme drought, more extreme weather events, the fall back argument is always going to be "the climate is always changing" so it will never ever get through to him. And this will be the case when Manhattan is gone and we've evolved into mermaids.

Same could be said when evidence that the earth is older than 6000 years old to a fundamentalist "Gods testing you" will counter any evidence to their already held beliefs.

ricecrackers
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thupercoach wrote:
GabMVFC wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.

Most climate change deniers tend to be religious nutters.


That's a gross generalisation. What I would say though is that "Climate Change" is being treated as a quasi-religion by the doomsayers. It's the believers that carry on like religious nutters.

The rest of us just want to get on with stuff.


absolutely agree with that
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bless the innocent little hearts of these indoctrinated children
time will prove me correct
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GabMVFC wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.

Most climate change deniers tend to be religious nutters.


That's a gross generalisation. What I would say though is that "Climate Change" is being treated as a quasi-religion by the doomsayers. It's the believers that carry on like religious nutters.

The rest of us just want to get on with stuff.
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thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.


I'm just interested in how much he's thought this thing through. He's probably spent a little too much time thinking about it actually.
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GabMVFC wrote:
I only go on this thread to laugh at ricecrackers' stupidity.

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thupercoach wrote:
Arguing with climate change doomsayers is like arguing with religious fundamentalist nutters.

Pointless.

Most climate change deniers tend to be religious nutters.

E

GO


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