u4486662
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trident wrote:we need to reduce population, its the only way How do you propose to do that?
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trident
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u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:we need to reduce population, its the only way How do you propose to do that? empowering women, birth control etc
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BETHFC
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lukerobinho wrote:trident wrote:as Tim Flannery said, we're going to be in for a rough ride over the next decade Just like he said it would never rain again and the dams would never be filled after 2010. Now every Australian state has a bunch of billion dollar desal plants gathering cobwebs Wonder if he's sold his waterfront properties yet ? You mean his sand front properties?.... oh wait he was an idiot.
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BETHFC
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trident wrote:Quote:[size=8]Climate change will shake the Earth[/size] A changing climate isn't just about floods, droughts and heatwaves. It brings erupting volcanoes and catastrophic earthquakes too As the Earth's crust buckles, volcanic activity will increase. Bill McGuire
Monday 27 February 2012 06.59 AEDT Last modified on Wednesday 4 June 2014 11.31 AEST
The idea that a changing climate can persuade the ground to shake, volcanoes to rumble and tsunamis to crash on to unsuspecting coastlines seems, at first, to be bordering on the insane. How can what happens in the thin envelope of gas that shrouds and protects our world possibly influence the potentially Earth-shattering processes that operate deep beneath the surface? The fact that it does reflects a failure of our imagination and a limited understanding of the manner in which the different physical components of our planet – the atmosphere, the oceans, and the solid Earth, or geosphere – intertwine and interact.
If we think about climate change at all, most of us do so in a very simplistic way: so, the weather might get a bit warmer; floods and droughts may become more of a problem and sea levels will slowly creep upwards. Evidence reveals, however, that our planet is an almost unimaginably complicated beast, which reacts to a dramatically changing climate in all manner of different ways; a few – like the aforementioned – straightforward and predictable; some surprising and others downright implausible. Into the latter category fall the manifold responses of the geosphere.
Sign up to our Bookmarks email Read more The world we inhabit has an outer rind that is extraordinarily sensitive to change. While the Earth's crust may seem safe and secure, the geological calamities that happen with alarming regularity confirm that this is not the case. Here in the UK, we only have to go back a couple years to April 2010, when the word on everyone's lips was Eyjafjallajökull – the ice-covered Icelandic volcano that brought UK and European air traffic to a grinding halt. Less than a year ago, our planet's ability to shock and awe headed the news once again as the east coast of Japan was bludgeoned by a cataclysmic combination of megaquake and tsunami, resulting – at a quarter of a trillion dollars or so – in the biggest natural-catastrophe bill ever.
In the light of such events, it somehow seems appropriate to imagine the Earth beneath our feet as a slumbering giant that tosses and turns periodically in response to various pokes and prods. Mostly, these are supplied by the stresses and strains associated with the eternal dance of a dozen or so rocky tectonic plates across the face of our world; a sedate waltz that proceeds at about the speed that fingernails grow. Changes in the environment too, however, have a key role to play in waking the giant, as growing numbers of geological studies targeting our post-ice age world have disclosed.
Between about 20,000 and 5,000 years ago, our planet underwent an astonishing climatic transformation. Over the course of this period, it flipped from the frigid wasteland of deepest and darkest ice age to the – broadly speaking – balmy, temperate world upon which our civilisation has developed and thrived. During this extraordinarily dynamic episode, as the immense ice sheets melted and colossal volumes of water were decanted back into the oceans, the pressures acting on the solid Earth also underwent massive change. In response, the crust bounced and bent, rocking our planet with a resurgence in volcanic activity, a proliferation of seismic shocks and burgeoning giant landslides.
The most spectacular geological effects were reserved for high latitudes. Here, the crust across much of northern Europe and North America had been forced down by hundreds of metres and held at bay for tens of thousands of years beneath the weight of sheets of ice 20 times thicker than the height of the London Eye. As the ice dissipated in soaring temperatures, the crust popped back up like a coiled spring released, at the same time tearing open major faults and triggering great earthquakes in places where they are unheard of today. Even now, the crust underpinning those parts of Europe and North America formerly imprisoned beneath the great continental ice sheets continues to rise – albeit at a far more sedate rate.
As last year's events in Japan most ably demonstrated, when the ground shakes violently beneath the sea, a tsunami may not be far behind. These unstoppable walls of water are hardly a surprise when they happen within the so-called ring of fire that encompasses the Pacific basin but in the more tectonically benign North Atlantic their manifestation could reasonably be regarded as a bit of a shock. Nonetheless, there is plenty of good, hard evidence that this was the case during post-glacial times. Trapped within the thick layers of peat that pass for soil on Shetland – the UK's northernmost outpost – are intrusions of sand that testify to the inland penetration of three tsunamis during the last 10,000 years.
Volcanic blasts too can be added to the portfolio of postglacial geological pandemonium; the warming climate being greeted by an unprecedented fiery outburst that wracked Iceland as its frozen carapace dwindled, and against which the recent ashy ejaculation from the island's most unpronounceable volcano pales.
The huge environmental changes that accompanied the rapid post-glacial warming of our world were not confined to the top and bottom of the planet. All that meltwater had to go somewhere, and as the ice sheets dwindled, so the oceans grew. An astounding 52m cubic kilometres of water was sucked from the oceans to form the ice sheets, causing sea levels to plummet by about 130 metres – the height of the Wembley stadium arch. As the ice sheets melted so this gigantic volume of water was returned, bending the crust around the margins of the ocean basins under the enormous added weight, and provoking volcanoes in the vicinity to erupt and faults to rupture, bringing geological mayhem to regions remote from the ice's polar fastnesses.
The breathtaking response of the geosphere as the great ice sheets crumbled might be considered as providing little more than an intriguing insight into the prehistoric workings of our world, were it not for the fact that our planet is once again in the throes an extraordinary climatic transformation – this time brought about by human activities. Clearly, the Earth of the early 21st century bears little resemblance to the frozen world of 20,000 years ago. Today, there are no great continental ice sheets to dispose of, while the ocean basins are already pretty much topped up. On the other hand, climate change projections repeatedly support the thesis that global average temperatures could rise at least as rapidly in the course of the next century or so as during post-glacial times, reaching levels at high latitudes capable of driving catastrophic breakup of polar ice sheets as thick as those that once covered much of Europe and North America. Could it be then, that if we continue to allow greenhouse gas emissions to rise unchecked and fuel serious warming, our planet's crust will begin to toss and turn once again?
The signs are that this is already happening. In the detached US state of Alaska, where climate change has propelled temperatures upwards by more than 3C in the last half century, the glaciers are melting at a staggering rate, some losing up to 1km in thickness in the last 100 years. The reduction in weight on the crust beneath is allowing faults contained therein to slide more easily, promoting increased earthquake activity in recent decades. The permafrost that helps hold the state's mountain peaks together is also thawing rapidly, leading to a rise in the number of giant rock and ice avalanches. In fact, in mountainous areas around the world, landslide activity is on the up; a reaction both to a general ramping-up of global temperatures and to the increasingly frequent summer heatwaves.
Whether or not Alaska proves to be the "canary in the cage" – the geological shenanigans there heralding far worse to come – depends largely upon the degree to which we are successful in reducing the ballooning greenhouse gas burden arising from our civilisation's increasingly polluting activities, thereby keeping rising global temperatures to a couple of degrees centigrade at most. So far, it has to be said, there is little cause for optimism, emissions rocketing by almost 6% in 2010 when the world economy continued to bump along the bottom. Furthermore, the failure to make any real progress on emissions control at last December's Durban climate conference ensures that the outlook is bleak. Our response to accelerating climate change continues to be consistently asymmetric, in the sense that it is far below the level that the science says is needed if we are to have any chance of avoiding the all-pervasive devastating consequences.
So what – geologically speaking – can we look forward to if we continue to pump out greenhouse gases at the current hell-for-leather rate? With resulting global average temperatures likely to be several degrees higher by this century's end, we could almost certainly say an eventual goodbye to the Greenland ice sheet, and probably that covering West Antarctica too, committing us – ultimately – to a 10-metre or more hike in sea levels.
GPS measurements reveal that the crust beneath the Greenland ice sheet is already rebounding in response to rapid melting, providing the potential – according to researchers – for future earthquakes, as faults beneath the ice are relieved of their confining load. The possibility exists that these could trigger submarine landslides spawning tsunamis capable of threatening North Atlantic coastlines. Eastern Iceland is bouncing back too as its Vatnajökull ice cap fades away. When and if it vanishes entirely, new research predicts a lively response from the volcanoes currently residing beneath. A dramatic elevation in landslide activity would be inevitable in the Andes, Himalayas, European Alps and elsewhere, as the ice and permafrost that sustains many mountain faces melts and thaws.
Across the world, as sea levels climb remorselessly, the load-related bending of the crust around the margins of the ocean basins might – in time – act to sufficiently "unclamp" coastal faults such as California's San Andreas, allowing them to move more easily; at the same time acting to squeeze magma out of susceptible volcanoes that are primed and ready to blow.
The bottom line is that through our climate-changing activities we are loading the dice in favour of escalating geological havoc at a time when we can most do without it. Unless there is a dramatic and completely unexpected turnaround in the way in which the human race manages itself and the planet, then long-term prospects for our civilisation look increasingly grim. At a time when an additional 220,000 people are lining up at the global soup kitchen each and every night; when energy, water and food resources are coming under ever-growing pressure, and when the debilitating effects of anthropogenic climate change are insinuating themselves increasingly into every nook and cranny of our world and our lives, the last thing we need is for the dozing subterranean giant to awaken.
Bill McGuire is professor of geophysical and climate hazards at University College London. Waking the Giant: How a Changing Climate Triggers Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Volcanoes is published by Oxford University Press.
Hear him on the Science Weekly podcast at guardian.co.uk/scienceweekly http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/26/why-climate-change-shake-earth Just concrete the slopes man ;) Interesting projections though.
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u4486662
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trident wrote:u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:we need to reduce population, its the only way How do you propose to do that? empowering women, birth control etc Birth rates are already low in countries with large CO2 emissions. Lowering the birth rate particularly in sub-saharan Africa is a good thing but will unlikely make much difference to CO2 emissions.
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trident
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u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:we need to reduce population, its the only way How do you propose to do that? empowering women, birth control etc Birth rates are already low in countries with large CO2 emissions. Lowering the birth rate particularly in sub-saharan Africa is a good thing but will unlikely make much difference to CO2 emissions. but Africa and Asia are providing Europe and much of the developed world's population growth via immigration
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AzzaMarch
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Population growth will peak at 9-10 billion then reduce. That is not the issue.
The issue is the huge level of emissions by already wealthy countries and middle income countries (China, India) with large populations transitioning into becoming higher income countries.
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Scotch&Coke
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trident wrote:u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:we need to reduce population, its the only way How do you propose to do that? empowering women, birth control etc Birth rates are already low in countries with large CO2 emissions. Lowering the birth rate particularly in sub-saharan Africa is a good thing but will unlikely make much difference to CO2 emissions. but Africa and Asia are providing Europe and much of the developed world's population growth via immigration There is an absolutely brilliant British TV drama about this whole argument. Its called Utopia and is about a conspiracy to send 90% of the world sterile for a few generations to save the planet from overpopulation. I highly recommend it if anyone is looking for a new show to watch
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Buggalugs - you should...
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Fact
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trident
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US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. Unsurprising from a Republican candidate.
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u4486662
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trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. Sadly, that would not have killed his campaign. I think the next president is going to be a Republican and I hope its not Trump.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. I don't think so. It aligns with his supporter base. trident wrote:Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. That's the thing. I can't think of any of them that accept anthropogenic global warming! Speaks volumes about right wingers and their grasp of science.
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trident
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u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. Sadly, that would not have killed his campaign. I think the next president is going to be a Republican and I hope its not Trump. who do you like?
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trident
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. I don't think so. It aligns with his supporter base. trident wrote:Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. That's the thing. I can't think of any of them that accept anthropogenic global warming! Speaks volumes about right wingers and their grasp of science. his supporter base are a minority
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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trident wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. I don't think so. It aligns with his supporter base. trident wrote:Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. That's the thing. I can't think of any of them that accept anthropogenic global warming! Speaks volumes about right wingers and their grasp of science. his supporter base are a minority But republicans hold congress and senate. I know that doesn't extrapolate to an election win, but isn't it an indicator?
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u4486662
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trident wrote:u4486662 wrote:trident wrote:US presidential hopeful Trump has just killed his own campaign by declaring himself part of the denial of science camp. Unsurprising from a Republican candidate. Sadly, that would not have killed his campaign. I think the next president is going to be a Republican and I hope its not Trump. who do you like? None of the republicans but I would rather jeb bush than trump.
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AzzaMarch
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The thing that distorts the results is this - during primaries only hardcore supporters take notice, vote etc, especially this early on.
They are by nature the most active, and most extreme in viewpoint.
By the time the general election rolls by many more people take notice and vote, and don't want extremists in power.
The problem for republicans these days is that the viewpoint of their rabid supporter base is so far removed from the average person that it is becoming virtually impossible for a republican to win the primary as well as the general election.
Regarding the Congress, it generally is not an indication of the presidential election. Similar to the difference here between how people vote in the house of reps and the senate, voters often deliberately vote differently as a check on power.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Quote:We regularly hear about how El Niño events raise the temperature across much of the planet, contributing to spikes in global average temperature such as the one witnessed in 1998, with severe bush fires, droughts and floods. Indeed, the extra warmth is typically much more apparent over land than in the oceans, despite El Niño being chiefly thought of as an ocean temperature phenomenon... ...It turns out that if we were to warm all of the oceans on Earth by 1C, the land would, as a direct result, warm by 1.5C. On average, the land always warms more than the ocean. The key difference here is that when you warm the tropical oceans you also release additional water vapour into the atmosphere by evaporation from the oceans' surface... ...As the current El Niño combines with the background warming of climate change, we can expect land temperatures to continue to spike, potentially surpassing last year’s global record average. This warmth is likely to persist through and slightly beyond the period of the El Niño, increasing the likelihood that 2015 and 2016 will be very warm years indeed for the planet. https://theconversation.com/the-tropical-steam-engine-how-does-el-nino-warm-the-entire-globe-47865
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BETHFC
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Quote:We regularly hear about how El Niño events raise the temperature across much of the planet, contributing to spikes in global average temperature such as the one witnessed in 1998, with severe bush fires, droughts and floods. Indeed, the extra warmth is typically much more apparent over land than in the oceans, despite El Niño being chiefly thought of as an ocean temperature phenomenon... ...It turns out that if we were to warm all of the oceans on Earth by 1C, the land would, as a direct result, warm by 1.5C. On average, the land always warms more than the ocean. The key difference here is that when you warm the tropical oceans you also release additional water vapour into the atmosphere by evaporation from the oceans' surface... ...As the current El Niño combines with the background warming of climate change, we can expect land temperatures to continue to spike, potentially surpassing last year’s global record average. This warmth is likely to persist through and slightly beyond the period of the El Niño, increasing the likelihood that 2015 and 2016 will be very warm years indeed for the planet. https://theconversation.com/the-tropical-steam-engine-how-does-el-nino-warm-the-entire-globe-47865 I remember hearing some science bloke suggesting that if oceans warm up, more vapour means more rain which was passed off as a win for humanity. Maybe he was part of the magical 3%?
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Quote:We regularly hear about how El Niño events raise the temperature across much of the planet, contributing to spikes in global average temperature such as the one witnessed in 1998, with severe bush fires, droughts and floods. Indeed, the extra warmth is typically much more apparent over land than in the oceans, despite El Niño being chiefly thought of as an ocean temperature phenomenon... ...It turns out that if we were to warm all of the oceans on Earth by 1C, the land would, as a direct result, warm by 1.5C. On average, the land always warms more than the ocean. The key difference here is that when you warm the tropical oceans you also release additional water vapour into the atmosphere by evaporation from the oceans' surface... ...As the current El Niño combines with the background warming of climate change, we can expect land temperatures to continue to spike, potentially surpassing last year’s global record average. This warmth is likely to persist through and slightly beyond the period of the El Niño, increasing the likelihood that 2015 and 2016 will be very warm years indeed for the planet. https://theconversation.com/the-tropical-steam-engine-how-does-el-nino-warm-the-entire-globe-47865 I remember hearing some science bloke suggesting that if oceans warm up, more vapour means more rain which was passed off as a win for humanity. Maybe he was part of the magical 3%? Might be the same science 'bloke' who suggested CO2 is good for humanity also, because its plant food! Anyway, the 97% figure bandied about is over a wider period of time (as overwhelming as the number of papers & consensus is). Of those scientists publishing regularly on climate change, in reputable peer reviewed journals, the figure is actually 100% - that is, no climate change specific scientist disputes human induced global warming.
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trident
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climate denying big oil guy gets owned =d>
[youtube]go33Llz8hFs[/youtube]
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Quote:Shell's global chief executive says an effective carbon price is needed to tackle climate change, whether through a trading or tax system. Speaking exclusively to ABC TV's The Business, Ben van Beurden said a price on carbon was necessary to discourage pollution. "Putting, in one form or another, a real, clear price on carbon that compels people to act with rational economic actions, I think is something that we need," he told presenter Ticky Fullerton. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/shell-ceo-says-carbon-price-needed-to-tackle-climate-change/6824510
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Unshackled
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Interesting read in regards to any carbon pricing schemes. http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/shorebank.phpQuote:A small bank in Chicago called SHOREBANK almost went bankrupt during the recession. The bank made a profit on its foreign micro-loans (see below) but had lost money in sub-prime mortgages in the US. It was facing likely closure by federal regulators. However, because the bank's executives were well connected with members of the Obama Administration, a private rescue bailout was arranged. The bank's employees had donated money to Obama's Senate campaign. In other words, ShoreBank was too politically connected to be allowed to go under.
ShoreBank survived and invested in many "green" businesses such as solar panel manufacturing. In fact, the bank was mentioned in one of Obama's speeches during his election campaign because it subjected new business borrowers to Eco-litmus tests.
Prior to becoming President, Obama sat on the board of the JOYCE FOUNDATION, a liberal charity. This foundation was originally established by Joyce Kean's family which had accumulated millions of dollars in the lumber industry. It mostly gave funds to hospitals but after her death in 1972, the foundation was taken over by radical environmentalists and social justice extremists.
This JOYCE FOUNDATION, which is rumored to have assets of 8 billion dollars, has now set up and funded, with a few partners, something called the CHICAGO CLIMATE EXCHANGE, known as CXX. It will be the exchange (like the Chicago Grain Futures Market for agriculture) where Environmental Carbon Credits are traded.
Under Obama's new bill, businesses in the future will be assessed a tax on how much CO2 they produce (their Carbon Footprint) or in other words how much they add to global warming. If a company produces less CO2 than their allotted measured limit, they earn a Carbon Credit. This Carbon Credit can be traded on the CXX exchange. Another company, which has gone over their CO2 limit, can buy the Credit and "reduce" their footprint and tax liability. It will be like trading shares on Wall Street.
Well, it was the same JOYCE FOUNDATION, along with some other private partners and Wall Street firms that funded the bailout of ShoreBank. The foundation is now one of the major shareholders. The bank has now been designated to be the "banking arm" of the CHICAGO CLIMATE EXCHANGE (CXX). In addition, Goldman Sachs has been contracted to run the investment trading floor of the exchange.
Quote:Al Gore was one of the smaller partners to originally help fund the CHICAGO CLIMATE EXCHANGE. He also founded a company called Generation Investment Management (GIM) and registered it in London, England. GIM has close links to the UK-based Climate Exchange PLC, a holding company listed on the London Stock Exchange. This company trades Carbon Credits in Europe (just like CXX will do here) and its floor is run by Goldman Sachs. Along with Gore, the other co-founder of GIM is Hank Paulson, the former US Treasury Secretary and former CEO of Goldman Sachs. His wife, Wendy, graduated from and is presently a Trustee of Wellesley College. Yes, the same college that Hillary Clinton and Jan Piercy, a co-founder of Shorebank attended. (They are all friends). Quote:If the bill passes, it is estimated that over 10 TRILLION dollars each year will be traded on the CXX exchange. At a commission rate of only 4 percent, the exchange would earn close to 400 billion dollars to split between its owners, all Obama cronies. At a 2 percent rate, Goldman Sachs would also rake in 200 billion dollars each year.
But don't forget SHOREBANK. With 10 trillion dollars flowing though its accounts, the bank will earn close to 40 billion dollars in interest each year for its owners (more Obama cronies), without even breaking a sweat.
It is estimated Al Gore alone will probably rake in 15 billion dollars just in the first year. Of course, Obama's "commissions" will be held in trust for him at the Joyce Foundation. They are estimated to be over 8 billion dollars by the time he leaves office in 2013, if the bill passes this year. Of course, these commissions will continue to be paid for the rest of his life.
Some financial experts think this will be the largest "scam" or "legal heist" in world history. Obama's cronies make the Mafia look like rank amateurs. They will make Bernie Madoff's fraud look like penny ante stuff.
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trident
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lol @ that source
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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trident wrote:lol @ that source A big positive side effect of the increase in global warming awareness, propagated due to the obfuscation by vested interests in maintaining the polluting status quo, is that it has highlighted peer reviewed science & evidence. The public has become more educated on what is academia & peer reviewed science & that any two-bit crank can run a blog site with distortions & lies. Of course, that doesn't stop people choosing to continue being wilfully ignorant, but the concept of peer reviewed science is more ubiquitous nonetheless.
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Unshackled
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:trident wrote:lol @ that source A big positive side effect of the increase in global warming awareness, propagated due to the obfuscation by vested interests in maintaining the polluting status quo, is that it has highlighted peer reviewed science & evidence. The public has become more educated on what is academia & peer reviewed science & that any two-bit crank can run a blog site with distortions & lies. Of course, that doesn't stop people choosing to continue being wilfully ignorant, but the concept of peer reviewed science is more ubiquitous nonetheless. Yes, lets completely ignore politicians, banks, dodgy investors and private groups positioned to be making absurd amounts of money that will inevitably be paid for by the working class consumer. No conflicts of interest here. They're saving the world!
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trident
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Lets be realistic here. We cant implement the necessary changes unless there are economic incentives. Lets leave the conspiracy theories aside.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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All time record temperature for the first week of October in Melbourne today. Tomorrow, the record set today is going to be broken. So sad what is happening to the planet - 'Boiling a frog'
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trident
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yes the news just keeps getting worse across the globe, its certainly going to be a rough ride
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BETHFC
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:All time record temperature for the first week of October in Melbourne today. Tomorrow, the record set today is going to be broken. So sad what is happening to the planet - 'Boiling a frog' :lol: 1 hot week and it's the bloody apocalypse for you tree huggers :lol:
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