Australian football is polarized into old soccer new football camps

There isn't often a lot of nuance in these camps. The socceroos aren't producing Harry kewell type players because of the a league. The national curriculum is to blame for not winning games at the 2014 World Cup. Proactive football is unaustralian

Like it or not proactive football, the Ntc, the a league and the upcoming Roos are all part of a cultural monolith that a large part of the football community treat like it's an enemy. Being against one of these usually means being against all of them.

This all makes me wonder if we win the asian cup on home soil in front of tens of thousands playing proactive football with a lot of young players what the effect of that will be.

Will the cause some to come round and comply with the Ntc? Attend a league games? Not get upset with a coach that temporarily goes backwards to play a superior style?

Proactive football is the way, I agree there are a high % of people against the curriculum set in place. Some of the arguments they have made are good but a lot of the other arguments show old school thinking. This is only my opinion.

Comply with the ntc? No, especially with Japan and Iran out, most don't rate Asia and consider it to be the weakest confederation outside the OFC. With Japan and Iran out, you will see a little * when mentioning winning the Asian Cup with wins against Kuwait, Oman, China, UAE, Korea/Iraq.

Support the A-League? Not that many of them are against the HAL, the bigger core of Australian football supporters who don't follow the HAL are general Eurosnobs who stay up at 3am to watch the likes of Liverpool but won't watch the HAL because it is "crap".

I converted a few to follow the Victory 2 are season ticket holders one attends the odd game. The rest couldn't care for it no matter how I try to get them into it.

That one statement is the reason 'old Soccer' struggles with 'new football'. The football in the old system was arguably better then the new system and had far less money and support then 'new football'

We beat China the other night in front of 46k fans and i could hear were then 8-12k Chinese supporters cheer and chanting.

New football has been good in regards to everything 'non-football' such as marketing, media, crowds, attracting overseas interest etc. But the development system of 'old soccer' is still better. Having youth academies at every club from U6 to seniors and engaging with society on a ground level is really what 'new football' lacks.

I like the A-league but if you look at in (without bias) it is very plastic especially when you look at hows Fury and GCU were handled.

This Like it or not attitude is why have this debate no doubt things are better now for the code but it isnt for the reasons you're mentioning.

As for pro-active football (we all like to watch it) but do i think we should be pro-active in the Asian cup *sure why not?* when we played in the world cup against 3 teams that had far superior squads no not a chance.

A good coach plays to win every match players should be set to tactically nullify your opponent the idea of pragmatic or pro-active play is a bit to basic for me. You play the way that suits the players you have and nullifies the players your against.





Edited by Davstar: 24/1/2015 03:35:53 PM

Just ask the Wanderers what happened when they won ACL.:lol:

This argument again? Can a mod just lock this before it pisses everybody off?

No,no,no Davstar is going to announce to us all that the world is indeed flat.

Asia probably doesn't provide that extra edge, maybe perhaps if we had beaten japan to win it, the World Cup is still our bread and butter, in terms of flow on effect getting out of the group stage would be seen as bigger then winning the Asian cup...I mean we are about to make the Asian cup final having not beaten a team that was at last years World Cup...still it's silverware and we should look to take it.

if we win the asian cup we will be favourites for the world cup in 2018

Worldwide exposure and millions of dollars?

Don't forget the cakes.

Sponsorship
Awareness
Good seeding for 2018 World Cup qualifiers
2017 Confeds Cup
Improved relations between Australia and remaining AFC nations

Stuff like that.

This, so much. I cannot believe the negativism around the NT these days. It appears as if there is an agenda of "old soccer" trying to hang on to "we were better" no matter how much this plays into the hands of the code wars which we continually battle.

Whilst I understand the tribalism within football, I for the life of me cannot understand why people do not see the bigger picture that is the real battle is against the other sports. Including even tennis and cricket for sponsorship dollars and, as some other poster indicated, players.

where?

Edited by jonomv: 25/1/2015 06:42:07 PM

Can Australia make it to the finals first before making any threads like these?

Porn and lots of it.

<3

This will be one of the major legacies of the Asian Cup. The ability to draw expat away crowds in Australia has given us legitimacy in the Asian confederation. It has strengthened our position as a truly Asian nation because it provides the other Asian nations with something to relate to. They have finally seen how we are part of them.

The other major legacy will be the creation of a playing style that is truly Australian. The performance against Oman was one of the greatest displays of attacking football that I have ever seen an Australian team play, and it is a style that will be understandable to mainstream Australian, who like teams that go full on attack.

The last legacy is a demonstration of how far the game still remains from the mainstream. The Asian Cup has been largely pigeon-holed by media outlets into a box labelled "curiosity". News Limited gave good coverage but isolated the news into a special Asian Cup section of that website and didn't let Asian Cup stories bleed out into their normal sports reporting, which remained focussed on the tennis and cricket. I saw an ABC news presenter joke about whether or not she was allowed to use the term "soccer". Football has such a long way to go before it is accepted is a mainstream Aussie sport. So much more needs to be done to show people how football has always been part of the Australian story. Eg. how many people would know who Reg Date is?

I have seen a lot of people criticising the members of the golden generation as they head into retirement. This is so self-destructive. If you are going to hate past heroes to the point where they prefer to fade into obscurity, then expect football to be nothing more than a sideshow.

re criticism of golden generation:
I think they were collateral damage of the anti-holger sentiment (he was a really poor manager)
it would be unreasonable for the golden gen to refuse to be selected so holger would be forced to give some game time to youth. What could the golden gen do?
But I put most of the blame on holger for his awful management. There was so much anger and frustration. Some people (youth in particular) were bound to vent in an uncronstructive way toward the golden gen

Knock on effect.

More solidifying for the players and Ange than anything. Although we know Japan are strong in Asia.

We have a confident style and are seeing improvement. More friendlies, more wins (hopefully) and climbing the FIFA Ranking.

They need a measuring stick as well. We can't lose to lower ranked FIFA teams, we need to find our number and stay there over the years. Beat easy teams and start beating Japan regularly. That would be my yardstick. We can't play to learn, it needs to be play to a system, play a certain way and having all the KPI's in place to play to win.

There is a lot of stuff mentioned in this thread but one of the key things to note is the old soccer vs new football point.

I was a support of old soccer I guess. growing up in Campbelltown wi didn't have a local team to follow so I used to go to many NSL clubs. my first games was wollongong wolves vs Gipsland falcons team featuring Archie Thompson and the old brandon park. (Archie scored from the penalty and give the local fans the finger. proving he was an arsehole then and and arse hole today, but not the point) I also remember some great games at Edensor park and Marconi stadium. and was there with my father when parramatta power played their first game.

I saw chipperfield and emerton and Joel Griffiths and mile sterjovski before they were stars (and archie) and it was a great league.But it died.

For all the good of the league it died and never got the support it needed. The NSL was dying for many years. When Wollongong played their grandfinal at Parramatta stadium with 10k people (2001 I believe. Back to back championships) this should have showed everyone that this league was not going to work and was going broke.

We need to remember the good of the NSL with the bad and try and learn from it to make he a-league better. people who won't go to a-league games just because it's not the NSL well then u don't support football.

We need to stop this conversation of which one was better and start aiming to make what we have better. because we have the opportunity to learn from our alpha test. The NSL. and make this league the best possible league.

Politically, within the AFC, would be interesting to know.

Winning it would probably make West Asia hate us even more.

That said, we've put on a great tournament (when no else wanted it), and also demonstrated value in terms of capitalising on the size of the China TV audience.

I'd guess we've probably risen in the eyes of the East Asian confeds, but less certain about West Asia.

interesting read

It is pretty amazing there is a camp against them.](*,)

However, I've seen the anti- FFA NC naysayers play some awful football at NPL level.

Also, the tenets of the FFA NC are based on pretty sound ones. Those that Germany, Holland, Spain, France and Belgium follow.

It is hard to argue against their unmitigated success.


One top FFA coach educator suggested to me that some people just don't like change.

fukkin oath=d>

The actual coaching methodology was usually poor in the NSL clubs.

However, they did try and develop local talent in a club pathway. This is something that should be operating in every HAL club.

Good point.

I agree , that it was probably the best style of football I've ever seen an Aussie senior national team play.

Fair comment.

It would've had a much bigger coverage relative to other sports in any other Asian country hosting the event.

This is a massive issue.](*,)

I started a thread on the issue of Eurosnobism that lasted for ages.

I know almost the majority of people involved in playing, coaching or administration in football are Eurosnobs, even at NPL level.

Then there is another group of English expats, who even follow Championship and Lower League teams in England, whilst they support Australia in cricket. I just cannot get them interested in Australian football at HAL and national level.](*,)

They don' t denigrate Aussie football, but just don't have any interest.

These two should be big bonuses.=d>

The Confed Cup should provide an opportunity for a few fringe players too.

However, there is nothing worse than playing the Confed Cup if one does not qualify for the World Cup.

I love that argument. So often rolled out.

How many NSL games did Harry play?
What was his Club's name?
What age did he leave?


](*,)

Edit: The Socceroo currently attracting most of 442's brainstrust's collective abuse is Mat McKay? He IS a product of the NSL.

Edited by SWandP: 26/1/2015 08:00:15 PM