Sydney needs an 80k seater stadium. We've been through this. It doesn't matter where it is. It just needs one. Not a 65k seater.

Phew. I was getting a bit nervous when I didn't see cranes and bull dozers in Moore Park this morning.

Since 2009,there has been 26 sporting events over 65k at ANZ Stadium.
That doesnt include the amount of concerts.

Sydney needs a venue larger than 65k.

Edited by dantm: 5/5/2015 12:44:37 PM

For what? Apart from Origin and maybe the NRL GF, what annual event even get's close to selling out 80k?

All-Stars v Man Utd drew 83k, along with the Wallabies v Lions.

The Bledisloe Cup regularly draws between 60-80k.

For what? Apart from Origin and maybe the NRL GF, what annual event even get's close to selling out 80k?

Neither are annual events and the Bledisloe hasn't got close to selling out ANZ in years and has had decreasing interest each year.

think you missed the point there mate.

what stadium capacity is needed now may be completely different in 10-20yrs time, they have to design with future needs in mind, not present.

ANZ isn't going anywhere, it didn't get funding because it's privately owned & there's nothing drastically wrong with it as a multipurpose stadium that needs gov funding. I think it's a three stadium network the gov is planning for with Parra, Moore Park & ANZ.

Neither are annual events and the Bledisloe hasn't got close to selling out ANZ in years and has had decreasing interest each year.

Average Bledisloe Cup attendance since 2009 in Sydney is 78,707.
Average Bledisloe Cup attendance since 1999 in Sydney is 81,497

yes,they have had attendances drop below 70k for the past 2 years,but that is more reflective of the current state of the Wallabies team,not the actual code.A few wins and it will change.

Anyway,point remains.Including Football and the Rugby codes,Sydney requires an 80k stadium.





Edited by dantm: 5/5/2015 01:15:10 PM

You sound like the ARU, totally ignorant on the decline of the game thanks to an obsession with beating NZ and failure to expand beyond a private school base. Only once in the last 5 years has the Bledisloe got more than 70k attending, with a LOT of free tickets being handed out.

In fact, this year, ANZ may sell out 3 times in one week. With State of origin, then Tottenham v Sydney then Chelsea v Sydney.

Although the Tottenham game may not sell out. Probably still a decent crowd though.

Already 60,000 sold for the Tottenham game.

Pretty safe that there will be at least 6 events above 65k in 2015
-Asian Cup Final
-State of Origin
-FC vs Tottenham
-FC vs Chelsea
-SoO
-NRL GF

65k Capacity is too small for the largest stadium in Sydney.

Ideal set up

Homebush -80,000 (Reconfiguired as per recent plans)
Moore Park-50,000 (New Stadium)
Parramatta -35,000 (New Stadium)

Those events will/had more than 75k. And most will be 83k. Plus the Bledisloe cup which will be about 70k.

Its technically not privately owned.Its a long term government asset.
It operates on a BOOT scheme,which means,Build,own,operate,transfer.
In other words,its a 30 year lease that expires in 2030.It will then be handed back to the NSW Government.
Which makes the $150 Million payout mentioned from the government even more stupid considering they will get it for FREE in 2030.
You have to keep the stakeholders(ANZ) interest in the investment strong,considering they only have another 15 years left.
Edited by dantm: 5/5/2015 01:36:02 PM

The key is Parramatta. If the government agrees to significantly increase its capacity, the ANZ operators could demand the government pay out the remaining 17 years on their lease and run the stadium itself.

It has leverage to force this outcome under an agreement signed in 1996 with the government before the stadium was built. It compels the government to “negotiate in good faith” with ANZ to ensure there is no “material adverse effect” if the government lifts the capacity above 25,000 of any stadium within 50km of Homebush.

If the government took back ANZ, one option would be to knock down Allianz and build a new 70,000-seat stadium at Moore Park and then turn ANZ Stadium into apartments.

In one further twist, a consortium led by Page, Gerry Harvey and John Singleton are about to take possession of the Entertainment Quarter next to Allianz and they have big plans.

When I recently asked Singleton to name one thing that could be done to improve Sydney, his response was short: “Blow up Homebush”.

Its technically not privately owned.Its a long term government asset.
It operates on a BOOT scheme,which means,Build,own,operate,transfer.
In other words,its a 30 year lease that expires in 2030.It will then be handed back to the NSW Government.
Which makes the $150 Million payout mentioned from the government even more stupid considering they will get it for FREE in 2030.
You have to keep the stakeholders(ANZ) interest in the investment strong,considering they only have another 15 years left.



Edited by dantm: 5/5/2015 01:36:02 PM

Yes, I realise that but allocating any funds to a ANZ stadium upgrade would still be a case of public money going towards infrastructure used to derive private profits. Its up to it's operators to fund an upgrade that benefits them.

The idea for a 65k seater at Moore Park is that the government wants to bring events in to the city so attending will become an event that involves spending money in the city before and after the game as opposed to spending time getting to an event in the middle of nowhere then getting home. It is an attempt to make attending sport more like it is in Melbourne. If they build the stadium right i.e tight rectangular with steep rake, comfort and amenities and protection from the elements, then it could encourage a greater attendance culture in Sydney.

I think it is the right decision to refuse more money to ANZ which isn't a great location or a great stadium. SFS and Parra are much better locations and better integrated into their communities.

I think SFS will work if the transport is fixed, which could well happen if the Western motorway eventually connects to the M2/Eastern Distributer, if light rail is built and if adequate parking and traffic flow is addressed.

Hopefully it doesn't become overused by low drawing Rugby League games to the point where a degraded pitch prevents it from being a world class stadium.

The impending annexation of the durka dome by the AFL and MV's current lease expiring when they take over means this is going to become a issue sooner rather than later.

The only way that we'll get a second venue though is if we join forces with League and Union and sell the idea to the State Government of Melbourne getting more Major Events. The Rebels are bleeding cash and just as likely to fold in 5 years, the Storm aren't going to get any bigger and City is a farce so MV ground sharing with someone is out.

If we proposed a new 40-50k stadium then we would need a lot more events than 13-18 MV home games to justify Government expenditure.

Realistically we could propose hosting the following:
1 State of Origin (every 3 years)
1-2 Union Internationals
1 League International
At least 2 Football Internationals
At least 2 Major Football Friendlies

They would really need to hammer the point that the prospect of a AFL owned Docklands and not having a dedicated Rectangular venue will harm Melbourne's chances of hosting these events

The ANZ stadium operators instead of owners ,they were talking about how they needed a new upgrade to keep the stadium operating. Thats what made me think they were the ones with a plan about apartments and they owned the place. So that must be just hot air.
It turns out though it Singleton and Harvey who want to get rid of it.


So if they upgrade Parramatta over 25k then the clause is activated.
Singleton also has an ulterior motive to get rid of ANZ, he thinks if he gets rid of Homebush then a Central Coast team can be made.

Edited by nickk: 5/5/2015 03:08:42 PM

IIRC he had two parts to his rumour (I went looking for the thread but couldn't find it), one was that ANZ would get knocked down (which I gave no chance), and the other that SFS would get knocked down. Which I thought was a possibility.

More high comedy in Sydney's stadium wars

Allianz Stadium is never full now, so why on earth would you knock it down and replace it with a bigger version at Moore Park?
Allianz Stadium is never full now, so why on earth would you knock it down and replace it with a bigger version at Moore Park? Getty Images

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by Joe Aston
I tell you what: this brouhaha over funding for Sydney's sports facilities has more angles than a tool shop!

Former NSW Liberal leader John Brogden will shortly hand down his report to sports minister Stuart Ayres on the matter, although cabinet has already read most of it in The Daily Telegraph.

On Monday, the Sydney tabloid's John Lehmann revealed a confidential plan to spend $800 million on a new 65,000-seat stadium (with underground parking) at Moore Park; demolish nearby Allianz Stadium and spend $100 million building a smaller venue on the site; demolish and build a new Parramatta Stadium for $400 million; and to spend zilch on ANZ Stadium in Homebush, other than to pay the operator $135 million to hand it back to the government.

Where to start?

Illustration:
Illustration: Rod Clement
Well first, at $800 million, Darryl Kerrigan would say, they've got to be dreaming. The new Perth Stadium doesn't even open until 2018 and is already costing $1.2 billion, even without a car park beneath. And if you can't cobble together a greenfield project for under 10 figures, good luck flattening Parramatta and bringing it back to life for less than half that much dosh.

Second, who in Sydney is going to cop this? Can you imagine the apoplexy at The Sydney Morning Herald, where "urban development" means a cycleway here or there and the odd pop-up shops selling second-hand sandals, when they realise yet another slab of parkland is being bulldozed for rugby league hooligans from whoop whoop who've never filled Allianz which was custom built for them in the first place? And the Elizabeth Farrelly columns in memory of the tranquil, bucolic Kippax fields, once framed by Moreton Bay Figs and swarming with doped-out housos and their pitbulls, now ruined by an invasion of roided-up yobbos in their Canterbury get-up.

And what about the Telegraph, the newspaper synonymous with "a fair go" for Western Sydney? It'll be DEFCON 1 in editor Paul Whittaker's office, surely, if $900 million is spent east of Central Station – even if it is such a nice stroll from Holt Street. They'll be organising a rally down Mt Druitt's main drag. Whittaker will give a rousing speech (by phone).

Remember, Sydney will never be Melbourne. Melbourne's sporting precinct, like its CBD, is in the centre of greater Melbourne. Moore Park, like Sydney's CBD, borders the east of greater Sydney. It's not like for like. And unlike Melbourne, Sydney is genuinely a four-code town.

So why knock down Allianz and build a larger version next door? Because the hot dogs are below par? That's like buying a new car because the ashtray's full in the old one. Earth to Brogden: change the caterers and get Scotty Cam on the case – whack a roof on her and she'll be a beauty.

As we said, Allianz is never full. The average crowd for NRL matches there in the past five years is just 16,000. The Roosters struggle to pull in 12,000 and that's only after Nick Politis has done them all a solid price on a demo Ford Falcon.

If this new venue goes ahead, the NRL will need to play three games there every weekend to pay the lease – meaning Easts, Souths, Wests, St George and Canterbury will all be in the frame to relocate from the Homebush fan base. Then there'll be Waratahs, Wallabies Tests and the Swans and Australian and NSW cricket next door at the SCG. In other words, three to four events within a square mile every weekend of the year. Look at Anzac Parade and Moore Park Road and now imagine downtown Jakarta on the last Friday of Ramadan. Carnage.

We can't wait to see the horror on the faces of the educated and urbane (just ask them) residents of Centennial Park, Paddington and Woollahra (including Whittaker) when The Footy Show fanatics clog their roads and steal their God-given on-street parking. David Leckie is going to need a helipad on the roof of his joint just to get from Lang Road to Bistro Moncur for a caprese salad.

NSW
David Gallop slams Sport Minister Stuart Ayres’ oval exodus plan for Homebush

7 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE Andrew ClennellThe Daily Telegraph


A large crowd looks on during a Wests Tigers v Melbourne Storm NRL game at Leichhardt Oval.
FOOTBALL Federation Australia boss David Gallop has criticised Sport Minister Stuart

Ayres’ vision to downgrade Sydney’s suburban grounds and take everything to Moore Park and Homebush as “overly simplistic”.

And the chief executive of South Sydney Rabbitohs, John Lee, says Mr Ayres should follow the lead of Premier Mike Baird’s father Bruce, who decided as Olympics minister that Homebush was the place for Sydney’s major stadium, not Moore Park.

Mr Ayres outlined his vision for Sydney’s stadiums at a Committee for Sydney forum at News Corp Australia headquarters on Tuesday night, including that a new stadium be built at Moore Park on Centennial Park and Moore Park trust land.


The Daily Telegraph revealed earlier this year that the government would sell the Land and Property Information Service to pay for the stadiums.
Government sources said yesterday this was at odds with the Premier and Cabinet’s decision last year that a new stadium should be built on existing SCG land.

In Mr Ayres’ vision he described the death of the suburban NRL ground. He also said the current Sydney Football Stadium should be torn down and a new 55,000-seat $800 million stadium built on Centennial and Moore Park trust land.



When Mr Ayres was asked about whether any more money would be forthcoming for the likes of Kogarah and Brookvale Oval, as the government spends $1.6 billion on Moore Park, a new Parramatta stadium, a new indoor stadium and ANZ Stadium at Homebush, the minister indicated it would be not.

“My strong focus here is making sure that we’ve got a network that we can sustain,” Mr Ayres said.

“There are 31 tier 2 stadiums in Australia and 15 of them are in Sydney. We have far too many tier 2 facilities that requires ongoing investment from the public.

“It [the investment] doesn’t come from the franchises that hire them, it can’t be sustained by local government.

“We’ve got to concentrate our investment.

“Where we thought about where you invest at . . you’ve got to build into a precinct.

“Will it mean that state governments don’t invest in suburban grounds that don’t have multi-use? “That’s the harsh reality of where we’re getting to here. But as a minister whose responsible for assets that are owned by the state, that’s where my priority’s going to be.”



Minister for port Stuart Ayres.


But Mr Gallop, the former NRL boss, who heard Mr Ayres speak, said yesterday: “To argue that Sydney can copy the AFL model in Melbourne, where 9 clubs share two main venues, is overly simplistic.

“The difference is that the MCG and Etihad Stadium are literally surrounded by railway and tram lines. It’s easy to get to and from the game from anywhere in Melbourne.

“Some people in the debate around stadium rationalisation in Sydney underestimate the difference in geography and ease of transport between Sydney and Melbourne.

“Light rail services in Sydney will help, but the couch and HDTV makes it an easy option to stay home if it is a long way to the ground and you have been sitting in traffic or on public transport all week in Sydney.”

Mr Lee said that Mr Ayres was wrong in thinking the city could have two big stadiums and “in 1991 the Premier’s Dad” had been part of a team that decided Western Sydney and Homebush was the best place for investment.


In Mr Ayres’ vision he described the death of the suburban NRL ground.
He said a refurbishment of the Sydney Football Stadium was preferable.

“They looked at Moore Park and they looked at Homebush and the answer was [Homebush].

“Anyone who understands Sydney and stadiums would understand the big events of Sydney need to be near two things — the people who want to enter and the transport.

“Moore Park can only handle 11,000 an hour on public transport, Homebush delivers 55,000 people an hour on bus and train.

“The die was cast in 1991 with Bruce Baird.”


Mr Ayres told the Committee for Sydney function that first he will spend $300-350 million on the new Parramatta stadium, then $800 million on Moore Park, then the rest of the $1.6 billion the government has set aside will go on a new indoor stadium and Homebush.

However, there is one other stadium he wants to build when the others are finished. An outer west stadium. Which would most likely be in his electorate of Penrith.

The government intends to spend $100-200 million on buying back ANZ Stadium at Homebush from its private operator.

Premier Mike Baird is understood to be a greater supporter of the Homebush facility than Mr Ayres.

The Daily Telegraph revealed earlier this year that the government would sell the Land and Property Information Service to pay for the stadiums.


Mr Ayres outlined his vision for Sydney’s stadiums at a Committee for Sydney forum at News Corp Australia headquarters on Tuesday night.
Originally published as Boot sunk into minister’s oval plan

That photo is absolute wank :lol: