"its the race that stops the nation"

No it isnt

Contradictions much?:-# :-"

I'm too young for most of this (was just a kid when the Australia act was passed) but my parents tell me that Australia was extremely "british-centric" until attitudes started to change in the 70s. We've systematically dismantled all practical ties to britain and are effectively independent, the country has been better for it too. The symbolic ties serve no purpose but make people feel something is there that doesn't actually exist and it does effect how we conduct ourselves.

I don't think saying Sorry doesn't go far enough...and they certainly have a right to be aggrieved for the things that have happened to them. Words don't change a thing.

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 03:01:42 PM

:lol:

The affect of the flag change, as well as a removing a bunch of other bits of british symbolism is that we'll think differently about the country. It will also allow us to project a different image to the world. You may dismiss this but in my opinion the impact this will have is underestimated. I have no concrete figures to support this (not even sure how you could) so we could have a long nebulous debate about it but I'm not that keen.

That's true. If anything saying sorry has deepened the wounds felt by aboriginal people and fed their victim complex.

When did I say that? Quote me.
Otherwise fuck off back to your shoebox.

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:40:35 PM

Assuming everyone is a leftie when you posted before assume makes an ass out of you and me. Face it socawho you have no clue

A bit like saying Sorry to the Indigenous People...Yes it was a nice gesture..but doesn't change FA about their situation.
The problem with Left Wing thinking is that they think gestures and words will make all the problems of the world go away.
They are obsessed with platitudes and Honours like the Nobel Peace Prize to make themselves feel good when in fact the real people they think they have helped are still suffering.

Don't mistake me for a Right Wing Fanatic either, who are just as fucked up in ideology as well...Im dead in the centre and theres a reason why we are swinging voters...it means we are open for reason and not cemented in our way of thinking.

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:56:39 PM

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:57:23 PM

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:57:41 PM

From 2 pages before.

Consider this Rusty. No matter how worthy, no matter how popular, no matter how just no Australian ever born in Australia can be our head of state. That is dead set retarded in this day and age.

And besides any of that are you saying you can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

People overestimate the effects of symbolism. Changing the flag won't achieve anything tangible. There will be a party in the streets and people feel good for a while but one the novelty wears off we will be back to square one. The idea that removing the union jack will somehow improve the prospects of the nation is idiotic, advocated by folks who are caught up in symbols and nuances and are blind to the real issues. The republic debate is just a distraction from matters of real concern and these need to be resolved first before we entertain another republic referendum.

I bet Murdoch Rag's solution to combating ISIS is to mass build rehabilitation centre in Syria since all of ISIS's members must be insane and need rehab....EVERYBODY CLAIM INSANITY!!!!

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:23:56 PM

The point is that even if it were Christians , Catholics or Buddhists that carried out violence in the name of their religion they should be scrutinised as well...and they should be if they had extremist tendencies.
Whereas the Lefty Loonies here is in total denial that there is an extremist element within their community and to even raise a finger or ask questions for any crimes perpetrated by muslim extremists is classed as being bigotry.

Here you go again..thinking you speak for everybody...:-"
Mate you ASSUME too much...
U make an ASS out of U and ME.
Get out of your bubble for a change and stop imagining things as the way you see it.
How do you know what really goes on in everyone's thinking....the truth is you don't so stop making assumptions.
Everyone has a unique take on what the flag means to them...its only you think everyone should think like you.

Edited by SocaWho: 3/11/2015 02:11:17 PM

Their first 3 dole payments will pay for laser removal and a new sleeve, don't worry brah ;)

Well for starters all the plebogans with it tatooed on their arms/legs and the big stickers on their Commie Utes will be outraged.

-PB

In what way though? What are these subtle things? Am I subtly pro-monarch or subtly pro-British Empire?

I obviously do not see the obvious affects a flag change will have on everyone.

Of course I don't mind you asking :lol:

You wouldn't actually think about it directly that often, it's subtle and it infiltrates a lot of people's decision making.

In what way if you don't mind me asking?

I can't say that I've ever really considered the pro's/con's of British symbolism on our flag. Maybe it has an affect on me that I do not realise?

People underestimate the effect of symbolism on the psyche of people both inside and outside the country. Having the union jack on our flag & removing the British monarch as our head of state is not a waste of money or time and will have long term benefits for the country.

With regards the new flag.

When the winning entry to the 1901 Federal Flag Design Competition was announced the initial reception was mixed. The then republican magazine The Bulletin labelled it:[19]

a staled réchauffé of the British flag, with no artistic virtue, no national significance... Minds move slowly: and Australia is still Britain's little boy. What more natural than that he should accept his father's cut-down garments, – lacking the power to protest, and only dimly realising his will. That bastard flag is a true symbol of the bastard state of Australian opinion.[20]

Fairly powerful editorial. Seems even 114 years ago they were enlightened voices.

So is that the red ensign or the blue?

I typed this "Australian flag at WW2" as suggested and I can't see any blue ensigns. (Photographs.)

From a wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_flag_debate

It is spurious to claim that Australians have "fought and died under the flag", given that during most of the wars Australians have been involved in, they have usually "fought under" various British flags or the Australian Red Ensign.[6] Prior to 1941 only 10 per cent of military ensigns were Blue and in 1945 Red ensigns were flown along the route of the official end of war parades.[7] The flag made in secret by the Changi prisoners-of-war was a red ensign.[8] The coffins of Australia's war dead were draped with the Union Jack.[9]

Found the last line particularly interesting. You learn something new every day.

Was he brandishing an Jihad flag while stabbing him?

Rather just do a google search of the Australian flag at WW2. There are countless examples of Australian flag, utilising various colour schemes being flown across various battles and wars since Federation. e.g




Edited by rusty: 3/11/2015 11:45:54 AM

No, he sent abusive letters to the families of a number of Australian soldiers who were killed on operations. When he applied for asylum in Australia the Iranian security agencies warned that he was a security threat due to his extremist views. He had a long history of involvement in radical Islam and calling for the implementation of Sharia law in australia. His religion was the major factor in his crimes.

wtf has this got to do with it. you seem to quote most of your shit from the abc....fuckwit propaganda poster that you are.

Absolutely untrue. The flag in it's current form didn't become the national flag until 1954. Up until that point no Australian fought or died for the blue ensign.

http://www.ausflag.com.au/red_ensign.asp

Do yourself look up archival photographs from 1945 at VJ/VP celebrations in Australia and see if you can see a single Australian flags. All union Jacks.

I agree it's a bit demeaning, but it's also our original flag, part of our tradition and inseparable part of our history. It tells an important story about Australia and how we came to be, also many fought and died under the flag. Many great Australian accomplishments have been performed under that flag , although it's a bit outdated it should be respected.