Can we rational folk keep Australia day and the Aboriginals and leftists have their own day?

Obviously, as I expected, my post has created some consternation. So lets explore some more.

I'm sure people here would agree that Jewish people have suffered discrimination in just about every place they have lived for much of the last few thousand years.
They've been hated by the Christians, and are still hated by fundamentalists. Muslims detest Jews. There are 1.5 billion muslims and just 14 million Jews. They were nearly exterminated from the planet as recently as 70 years ago.

Ok, so we can all acknowledge, that like Aborigines, Jews have suffered extensive injustices and that those injustices have been fairly recent.

However, we can all agree, that Jews are tremendously successful. Why?

Is it because people have acknowledged injustices of the past, or is it because its built into their culture? You know plenty of people still hate jews.

What lessons can be learned about other discriminated but successful cultures like Jews and Asians who came to the western world that can be applied to the disadvantage faced by Aborigines?

One school of thought might be to say that to fix the problem we need to acknowledge injustices of the past and apologise for them. Provide a greater slice of welfare than what other people get. Give them free health care and free medications rather than just subsidised ones. All of these have great intentions. They are initiated by government and industry with the greatest of intentions to help people. But do they really help?

Or do we need to change the culture? How do we change the culture for the better? Is it going to change for the better by perpetuating a culture upon young Aboriginal people that they can't be successful because of injustices committed upon their relatives in the past? That the system is against them?

Or do we instill into them that they too can be successful if they stay in school and work hard. Rather than blaming society.

The reason why I'm saying this is that it is often Non-aboriginal people who perpetuate the idea that the system is against Aborigines or any marginalised group and I think this does more harm than good.

One of the ways this culture of failure can be broken, I believe, is for successful Aboriginal people to come out and say that they got to where they are by valuing education and hard work. I think they can be great role models in that regard.

The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.
-malcolm X

It is poorly worded, I do apologise. Post work friday beers have taken my language skills down a touch.

The Aboriginals are right in their desire for a day to celebrate their culture and contribution to the land.

This however does not mean that we as British, Greek, Chinese, etc. descendants should feel obliged to not celebrate our culture on the day we first settled.

I assume this is poorly worded again as a non-British (and non-aboriginal) person, the day British people settled here is far less important than a bunch of other days of national significance.

Move the national holiday to another day along with the associated "national celebrations". Then if you want to have a bbq on the 26th of January to celebrate your British ancestors arriving here there will be far less of a kerfuffle.

or we just keep it like it is

"poor choice of words" :lol: I meant whinging that people are trying to make you feel guilty.

Good luck in the USA.

Thanks.

They are doing a poor job if they are.

Are you trying to make me feel guilty?

Nope, which is why I find the whinging about it a bit pathetic to be honest.

We can go in circles about this (and we have already). The facts are:
1. Celebrating Australia day on the 26th January is hurtful to our nation's first people
2. Most Australia day official events (i.e. government run) tend to emphasise a lot our multiculturalism and inclusiveness of our society. Having it on the 26th January contradicts this idea due to fact 1
3. There are other more inclusive and arguably more meaningful dates from a national perspective that could be used instead of the day the English arrived to establish a prison.

You sound like you have issues with not being an "English Australian".
I don't have any English blood in me.

You sound like a lot of things :lol:

Nope no issue at all, proud of my heritage and comfortable with my place in society. Many british people have made a great contribution to this country so no bone to pick with them either.

Anything else?

Not really.

:d
I'll check;

- change the flag - Yep
- become a republic - Yep
- change national anthem - Already got rid of God Save The Queen, should we go back to it?
- should we change the name of the country? It is taken from Latin but was named by the British - Nope
- should we scrap our legal system based on British common law and adopt indigenous law? - Nope but indigenous people should be able to have some flexibility in regards to their own laws in some circumstances provided all parties agree. Much like Sharia law courts for family matters for muslims.
- change national day - Yep preferably to the date we become a republic

Should probably stop celebrating Xmas & Easter on case it offends anyone - Nope, Christmas in particular transcends christianity these days and many people celebrate it

& the Melbourne Cup is offensive to horses

Pfft I can agree with indigenous law as it already happens, but you are suggesting another group of people should have their own laws?

Australian Law for all non-indigenous inhabitants.

For civil and family matters sure, provided all parties agree and the judgements don't cross any criminal lines. Why not?

For civil and family matters sure, provided all parties agree and the judgements don't cross any criminal lines. Why not?

Sick of the aboriginal victim mentalility tbh. They already receive ridiculous amounts of benefits and handouts. Sure their life expectancy is lower, who'd have thought excessive drinking and smoking puts you in the ground sooner. Everyone already knows the dangers of these drugs so more government money won't increase awareness.

I'm open to changing Australia Day. It's a strange date to celebrate, obviously offensive to aboriginals and doesn't reflect our multiculturalism anyway. But all the other grievances Aboriginals have can fuck off.

They already receive ridiculous amounts of benefits and handouts.

As i was saying...it seems that theres no solution.
i dont know what can be done .
the only solution i can see fit is help them increase their health with the hope their life expectancy improves. ie better nutrition and not allowing them access to cigs and alchohol.
Saying sorry is one thing but ot wont make their problens go away...a bit like Bob Hawkes speech on kids in poverty

Edited by Socawho: 30/1/2016 12:27:40 PM

That is just not true. It is yet another piece of urban mythology that gets thrown around whenever the issue of the gap in indigenous health outcomes comes to light.

Please outline the specific "ridiculous amounts of benefits and handouts" - otherwise you are talking rubbish.

More buzzword shit

"Empowering communities" - what does that even mean?

Aboriginal people are given so much shit, lower entry scores for uni, large welfare dependence etc

If they choose not to take it then so be it. Let's face it, if it wasn't for British settlement they would still be living in mud huts in their uncivilised lifestyle.

Edited by 433: 1/2/2016 04:05:34 PM

That is just not true. It is yet another piece of urban mythology that gets thrown around whenever the issue of the gap in indigenous health outcomes comes to light.

Please outline the specific "ridiculous amounts of benefits and handouts" - otherwise you are talking rubbish.

If the British didn't come then someone else would have. They're probably lucky that it wasn't the French or the Spanish.

Why is it then that literally on every government and educational form i have had to fill out for the past 18 years of my high school and adult life have i had to tick a box to confirm whether or not i am an "Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander"?

One of my mates was a med student and he believed in everything the Greens had said about needing to help the Aboriginals and that somehow it is the governments fault that they live in squalor. A quick work experience/ uni placement in the Northern Territory has literally turned his thinking to the complete opposite. This is evolution at work right now. All the systems are in place to help remote communities yet they do nothing with it.

I would like to see the difference in life expectancy/ success in Aboriginals living in remote areas compared to more Metropolitan cities. I'm sure there would be a significant disparity