:roll: call it what you want....

in 2025, there will be no P/R to the A-league.....but there might be flying cars

Get your tissue box ready.

He goes through more tissues re-reading his own posts

:lol:
On the topic would it be easier to run a semi pro 2nd tier with games on sunday afternoons and the odd game on saturday evening. 12 teams of the best of NPL.

that comeback is so lane, that it funny :lol:

yup agree. the first steps will be expansion and a 2nd tier. this will happen without too many tissues get spent. once they are up and running p/r will be close.

there's been some really good articles about the need for a 2nd tier recently - irrespective of p/r. making the transition smoother for player development seems pretty reasonable/necessary.

reality is that the teams and interest already exist. the only thing stopping it is the ffa.

Sorry, until the financial base is there I dont see it happening.

Lets say we had a 2nd Tier and we had 12 clubs from around Australia (and maybe NZ.. but I think it should be Aus only). Each of those clubs would be professional only (gone would be the days when Bob could go be a accountant etc), and possibly looking at a turnover of 2 million a season.. maybe more.

Now some of the clubs out there might already be spending 500,000 a season, some are spending 150,000 if that. There are probably teams spending less. Is there an extra 14 million dollars out there to fund this? Maybe. WE certainly do need a feasability study.

Then you would have to make sure that these 12 teams are spread over Australia. There is utterly no point having 5 from Vic, 5 from NSW, 1 from Qld and 1 from Canberra for example.

As soon as you cut out a market (in the case above SA and WA), then you lose public focus in those markets. You will have people probably dropping memberships in mass of the teams from there, and with that the players will move on and so forth. the Perth club in particular would like lose its owner and then you have a team at risk of not being financially viable.

(Speaking of which, if you were Wealth and owned a club currently, why the hell would you risk your team losing the spotlight and going down a division).

Money: THE EPL is big because it has a BIG TV rights deal. It does not have to really compete with many other 'big' sports there. Cricket is slowly degrading in the UK, and Rugby is nowhere near as huge as Football.

Australia has the NRL and AFL taking the majority of the tv money rights and sponsorship in this country. THe Socceroos until recently did have a badge sponsor. Thats.. not good. Tv numbers are down and some crowds are getting smaller. Are you telling me a tv station/rights holder is going to look at that and a possible 2nd division and think : 'Yeah that seems like a great way to bring in viewers and give money to the FFA/A League'.

If you do, then lay off the magic mushrooms.

There is just not enough 'available' money out there for a professional 2nd division in Australia. There is BARELY enough money for a Professional 1st division.

Why? Why must we have a professional second division when:
. No other sport in Australia does
. The interest isn't there

Every time somebody jumps to the professional second division they conclude it isn't possible. Of course it isn't possible when it has to be professional


Consider this:
The youth league is a national league at a cost of $700k per club. Add $500k as a stand alone club
Each team should be able to attract $500k of sponsorship
- Canberra, Brisbane II, NQF, Gold Coast, Tasmania, Geelong, Melbourne III (SM), Wollongong, Sydney II (SU), Adelaide City

Every one of those should be able to attract $500k of sponsorship. Also they should be asked to raise $1m capital (one off) so they aren't getting a free ride

The FFA take $700k off each A League club as a result of dumping the youth league (each team has their own youth structure) but this is not a bad thing because they will be getting a marquee fund next season, and more money in the next TV deal. This $700k pa funds the second division clubs

The cost: $0.00

When we area ready for P/R all we have to do is remove the salary cap and promote 2 clubs
The new TV deal gives each A League team $3.5m and each Div2 team $1m ($50m a year)

Edited by bluebird: 14/3/2016 05:33:07 PM

What do people mean when they write "Europe"? People talk about Holland. Are others talking about Germany or Moldova?

If I compare Australia with Sweden

Both not very populated with large land masses. Australia has 4 large cities, Sweden 3 (compared with total population).
Football is not the main sport and does not get the most tv money (ice hockey receives more).

Its pretty much cheaper to travel in Australia domestically then Sweden.

Sweden gets approx $40 million per year (which just increased this season from $30 mil).
They put that money into 2 leagues.
75% Allsvenskan $30 milliom 16 teams
25% Superetten $10 million 16 teams

The pay distribution in the second division is the same over every club.
In the first division the teams get a base amount then more money the higher they finish on the table.

A similar model would work in Australia with some minor modifications.

That could definitely work

$1m for 8 div clubs
$3m for 12 div 1 clubs + $2m 1st, $1m 2nd, $500k 3rd

What lane, idiot? What's funny about bowling?

This is about global standards in football development.
Without Prom/Rel debate is also about competing at a global level.

What needs to be understood is that there is a block on investment in football in Australia.
Below the ALeague there is no market mechanism for investment in the game.
Why invest when there is no benefit?
Even in the ALeague there is limited investment growth in investment why invest when there is no consequence?
Promotion and Relegation is a market mechanism that is based on and encourages market forces to drive innovation, investment, growth, rewards success and punishes failure.
Closed markets discourage innovation.

Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack.
The football culture has weakened.

i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation

I don't see a sustainable pro/rel for 50 years or more but i do believe there should be expansion in a sustainable way and that may mean no more new clubs in the next 5 years but i hope it's sooner and then after that they should be looking at a 2nd level but it should be wholly national and clubs must be financially stable and have adequate facilities... i feel in the future the 2nd division will only be taken seriously if the clubs almost have a more professional (not pro players) appearance because that may be the only way sponsors,new supporters etc are going to take it seriously. Their targets may be harder to reach than the a-league teams because they have more to prove at a lower level where as the a-league teams have the prestige of being at the most exposed level.

Then you'd be wrong my friend

Ned Zelić
Kevin Muscat
Craig Moore
Josip Skoko
John Aloisi
Mark Viduka
Lucas Neill
Brett Emerton
Vince Grella
Mile Sterjovski
Mark Bresciano
Luke Wilkshire
Joshua Kennedy

Josip Šimunić (Croatia)
Anthony Šerić (Croatia)
Ivan Ergić (Serbia)

And all prodigious talents before they entered the AIS.
Ideveloped by parents coaches and clubs with strong football culture
AIS only small part of the journey

and nothing of Australian culture....AIS was one of the single great things done for Australia sports, Australian football

Was? It's still there, you know..

There isn't going to be relegation for a long time.I don't think anyone disputes that.
Setting up a second division above the NPL State leagues as a proving ground makes good sense.
If it can have teams from all over the nation then it might even attract sponsorship and FTA tv coverage.
At some stage if the teams grow and can get to a reasonable standard,then it might even be possible that promotion would be considered.
There could be 12 teams playing each other home and away.
Teams from
Sydney:2
Melb:2
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Wooloongong
Canberra
Tasmania
Gold Coast.

Second div could start in Jan so as to allow reserve HAL players to be loaned out.

For me it would be best to go down 2 routes when we talk tv.

If it is a winter comp (set league) play all the 3pm on a Saturday, so you can show low budget crosses around the ground for all goals. Perhaps WA could play later when they have a home match.

If a summer comp play all the games Friday nights at the same time. Same deal, cross for goals etc ala FFA Cup or other comps. Just dont have teams from the same cities playing the same night at home as A-League. Eg Any week BR play at home on a friday night have the Brisbane representative play away that week.

With FTA probably moving from Fridays you could have FTA 2nd div (if you get the tv deal :))

Edited by scott21: 18/3/2016 01:04:15 AM

Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up.

FFA would never propose this. I think it is the superior model.

The FFA would get too much criticism if they set it up. NSW and Vic need to come together and do it on their own.

Doesn't need Victoria in there either.

It would never work because many of the NSW clubs wouldnt want to do it.

The only way it will work is if the FFA puts it out in the market place and has the necessary discussions to gauge interest and a range of issues including costs etc.

First step is the FFA saying okay let's have an open and honest discussion about firstly a national 2nd tier and secondly a P/R mechanism.

Agreed

The FFA should announce that this season they will be looking to put in place a national second division of 8-10 teams and clubs can apply for the following licenses: Canberra, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Queensland, Tasmania, Geelong, Sydney, Wollongong, Melbourne, and Adelaide

Cost is $1m capital (one off) and $500k sponsorship (recurring)
Contribution from the FFA will be $700k TV dollars (recurring)
Club will require access to stadium with lighting requirements and 3k seating


If no team applies then that spells an end to the whole 2nd division discussion and P/R

If the quota is met then the 2nd division is run in place of the youth league, and A League teams put their own youth league process in place (like playing them in the state leagues)

Win/ win IMO

Edited by bluebird: 18/3/2016 01:52:05 PM

why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams?

Edited by adrtho: 18/3/2016 02:06:02 PM