|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better .  Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else? You're getting close. And broad basing their club?
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RBBAnonymous
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else? You're getting close. And broad basing their club? If they don't, they become a less popular club and never get promoted. That's just logical. Has the penny dropped now for you? Because we are starting to run out of pennies.
|
|
|
|
|
melbourne_terrace
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xbloody effniks, glad there are no issues with the HAL, the quote below is so accruate: "I can watch Melbourne City thump the Victory scum with a mate wearing the wrong colours, and we’ll go grab a beer after the game.Fans sit in the stands without fencing between rival factions. Supporters are loud and passionate, but they don’t beat each other up because of a 1000-year-old dispute" I'm sure all the rival fans below shared a beer after the match THE A-LEAGUE FILES 16/10/10 Melbourne Victory v Sydney United Crowd: 17,299 Behaviour: Generally good, however disruptive elements in Victory cheer squad Incidents: Four flares ignited and penalty notice issued for riotous behaviour. Details: Male tried to start a fight with Sydney cheer squad, police arrested him. 27/11/10 Melbourne Heart v Sydney FC Crowd: 4857 Behaviour: Overall good Incidents: Flare discharge outside ground Details: There was an altercation pregame between supporters at a Richmond Pub. Melbourne supporters were accused of having "ambushed" Sydney supporters and "caused some fear and anguish". 22/1/11 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 32,231 Behaviour: Poor Incidents: 14 flare deployments, assault and taunting between supporter groups. Details: 14-year-old boy abused police and "struck out" towards them after being seen acting aggressively towards other spectators after the match. "Crowd behaviour in the Victory Supporter's cheer squad was extremely poor". A male was "king hit" on the footbridge leading away from the venue after the match and received facial injuries. 30/1/11 Melbourne Victory v Gold Coast United Crowd: 8207 Behaviour: Poor Incidents: Three police assaulted, one police uniform damaged, 1 flare let off. Details: An officer attempting to evict fan who had pulled the hair of another crowd member was "bitten on the leg by penetrating skin, but not causing bleeding". "Crowd behaviour in the Victory supporter's cheer squad was again extremely poor". They held a silent protest for 15 minutes of the match but "then reverted to their usual behaviours". Moved en masse "in an apparent show of force/strength" to different seating areas. "This crowd/mob mobility was also a concerning behaviour". 23/12/11 Melbourne Heart v Melbourne Victory Crowd: 26,579 Behaviour: Highly charged and active crowd, but mostly well behaved Incident: Heart supporter spat on Victory supporter during match, had his membership card confiscated for further action. After the match fights erupted as a group of supporters walked across Gosch's Paddock. Details: "100 Heart active supporters were walking across Gosch's Paddock a flare was set off and then a fight broke out. A number of fights then erupted." Police, security and mounted branch attended. 13/1/12 Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Crowd: 20,959 Behaviour: Good Incidents: One eviction Details: Adelaide supporters were held back 15 minutes until Victory supporters had cleared area after the game. A banner erected by Victory supporters reading "Backrow Hooligans" was taken down. 5/10/12 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 41,262 Behaviour: Generally crowd was manageable although hard core supporter groups became unruly at times. Incident: Flares ignited and chairs thrown onto arena Details: Heart supporters destroyed 65 seats and threw them onto the ground. 22/12/12 Melbourne Heart v Melbourne Victory Crowd: 26,459 Behaviour: Extremely poor Incidents: 18 flares lit and home made smoke bombs set off. A 12-year-old was detected carrying a flare and had it confiscated. Coins, liquid and bottles thrown at security, about 500 supporters invaded the pitch. Details: "Police were overwhelmed to a point where we could only monitor the crowd due to the volatile behaviour. The general demeanour of the Victory support group was aggressive and anti social." 26/1/13 Melbourne Victory v Sydney FC Crowd: 28,852 Behaviour: Victory supporters antagonistic towards Sydney supporters although separated Incidents: Two flares lit Details: Sydney supporters held back after game to allow Victory fans to disperse, also deployed additional members for Sydney supporters travel to the game from Federation Square. 2/2/13 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 41,203 Behaviour: Seats broken and flares lit in both supporter areas Incidents: 9 flares struck throughout the game and about 170 seats damaged. Details: "It is clear from this match and previous recent matches that crowd behaviour, particularly in the active supporter area is deteriorating." 16/3/13 Melbourne Heart v Western Sydney Crowd: 5991 Behaviour: Reasonable up until last 15 minutes of match Incidents: Hostile crowd behaviour Details: "Approximately 100 Heart supporters moved to the northern end of the ground and started to bait the opposition. This tactic was successful. For a few minutes it was chaotic as the crowd was becoming very hostile towards each other." Tutt, tutt.......no cherry picking now you hear! In any case any of then invade the pitch, attacked opposition coaches and players or even have their games played behind closed doors to the general public? Any unruly behaviour a result of foreign wars? As if we haven't got enough issues already. You also need to consider the order of magnitude. NSL average crowds 3,000 HAL average cowds 14,000 Lol If you're going to whinge about fan violence then all the big 4 teams are guilty and should be kicked out. If anything, the A-League has had more fan violence than the NSL. Knights fans are distasteful but they've not punched on in the middle of the CBD in broad daylight.
Viennese Vuck
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xbloody effniks, glad there are no issues with the HAL, the quote below is so accruate: "I can watch Melbourne City thump the Victory scum with a mate wearing the wrong colours, and we’ll go grab a beer after the game.Fans sit in the stands without fencing between rival factions. Supporters are loud and passionate, but they don’t beat each other up because of a 1000-year-old dispute" I'm sure all the rival fans below shared a beer after the match THE A-LEAGUE FILES 16/10/10 Melbourne Victory v Sydney United Crowd: 17,299 Behaviour: Generally good, however disruptive elements in Victory cheer squad Incidents: Four flares ignited and penalty notice issued for riotous behaviour. Details: Male tried to start a fight with Sydney cheer squad, police arrested him. 27/11/10 Melbourne Heart v Sydney FC Crowd: 4857 Behaviour: Overall good Incidents: Flare discharge outside ground Details: There was an altercation pregame between supporters at a Richmond Pub. Melbourne supporters were accused of having "ambushed" Sydney supporters and "caused some fear and anguish". 22/1/11 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 32,231 Behaviour: Poor Incidents: 14 flare deployments, assault and taunting between supporter groups. Details: 14-year-old boy abused police and "struck out" towards them after being seen acting aggressively towards other spectators after the match. "Crowd behaviour in the Victory Supporter's cheer squad was extremely poor". A male was "king hit" on the footbridge leading away from the venue after the match and received facial injuries. 30/1/11 Melbourne Victory v Gold Coast United Crowd: 8207 Behaviour: Poor Incidents: Three police assaulted, one police uniform damaged, 1 flare let off. Details: An officer attempting to evict fan who had pulled the hair of another crowd member was "bitten on the leg by penetrating skin, but not causing bleeding". "Crowd behaviour in the Victory supporter's cheer squad was again extremely poor". They held a silent protest for 15 minutes of the match but "then reverted to their usual behaviours". Moved en masse "in an apparent show of force/strength" to different seating areas. "This crowd/mob mobility was also a concerning behaviour". 23/12/11 Melbourne Heart v Melbourne Victory Crowd: 26,579 Behaviour: Highly charged and active crowd, but mostly well behaved Incident: Heart supporter spat on Victory supporter during match, had his membership card confiscated for further action. After the match fights erupted as a group of supporters walked across Gosch's Paddock. Details: "100 Heart active supporters were walking across Gosch's Paddock a flare was set off and then a fight broke out. A number of fights then erupted." Police, security and mounted branch attended. 13/1/12 Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Crowd: 20,959 Behaviour: Good Incidents: One eviction Details: Adelaide supporters were held back 15 minutes until Victory supporters had cleared area after the game. A banner erected by Victory supporters reading "Backrow Hooligans" was taken down. 5/10/12 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 41,262 Behaviour: Generally crowd was manageable although hard core supporter groups became unruly at times. Incident: Flares ignited and chairs thrown onto arena Details: Heart supporters destroyed 65 seats and threw them onto the ground. 22/12/12 Melbourne Heart v Melbourne Victory Crowd: 26,459 Behaviour: Extremely poor Incidents: 18 flares lit and home made smoke bombs set off. A 12-year-old was detected carrying a flare and had it confiscated. Coins, liquid and bottles thrown at security, about 500 supporters invaded the pitch. Details: "Police were overwhelmed to a point where we could only monitor the crowd due to the volatile behaviour. The general demeanour of the Victory support group was aggressive and anti social." 26/1/13 Melbourne Victory v Sydney FC Crowd: 28,852 Behaviour: Victory supporters antagonistic towards Sydney supporters although separated Incidents: Two flares lit Details: Sydney supporters held back after game to allow Victory fans to disperse, also deployed additional members for Sydney supporters travel to the game from Federation Square. 2/2/13 Melbourne Victory v Melbourne Heart Crowd: 41,203 Behaviour: Seats broken and flares lit in both supporter areas Incidents: 9 flares struck throughout the game and about 170 seats damaged. Details: "It is clear from this match and previous recent matches that crowd behaviour, particularly in the active supporter area is deteriorating." 16/3/13 Melbourne Heart v Western Sydney Crowd: 5991 Behaviour: Reasonable up until last 15 minutes of match Incidents: Hostile crowd behaviour Details: "Approximately 100 Heart supporters moved to the northern end of the ground and started to bait the opposition. This tactic was successful. For a few minutes it was chaotic as the crowd was becoming very hostile towards each other." Tutt, tutt.......no cherry picking now you hear! In any case any of then invade the pitch, attacked opposition coaches and players or even have their games played behind closed doors to the general public? Any unruly behaviour a result of foreign wars? As if we haven't got enough issues already. You also need to consider the order of magnitude. NSL average crowds 3,000 HAL average cowds 14,000 Lol If you're going to whinge about fan violence then all the big 4 teams are guilty and should be kicked out. If anything, the A-League has had more fan violence than the NSL. Knights fans are distasteful but they've not punched on in the middle of the CBD in broad daylight. There's no mention of kicking out anyone, however you don't want to introduce even greater problems plus other aspects with a club who fails to support the growth of football and continues to be selfish and insular. But anyway aren't you one of those that has said the clubs can't do anything about what happens outside the ground? lol. And aren't you also forgetting the scale of magnitude between the two ie Melb Croatia fan base of 3,000 then (300 now) and MV with a base of 26,000? Please.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else? You're getting close. And broad basing their club? If they don't, they become a less popular club and never get promoted. That's just logical. Has the penny dropped now for you? Because we are starting to run out of pennies. You can still be unpopular, selfish, violent, destructive, against all authority and contrary for the good of the game and still win enough points for promotion. I'm disappointed with your lack of a clear response to my question as it raises the suspicion that you don't agree with broad basing clubs as a criteria otherwise you would have said so. You were doing quite well till then but you have failed.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
adrtho2
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xI never dreamed there was an issue with clubs still aligned with Italians. Surely the Italians are now viewed as good ethnics, not like all that other rabble constantly at war with each other. Good point Mr Football. It seems the Italian mono ethnic clubs have recognized that enjoying their community can be done by other less controversial means without damaging the code. Notice how they just dispersed into their social clubs and lower leagues without a fuss? Credit where credit is due. That's not to say they did not have their dark days either. Remember those on field riot scenes at Marconi and the unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair? :D unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair?
|
|
|
|
|
RBBAnonymous
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else? You're getting close. And broad basing their club? If they don't, they become a less popular club and never get promoted. That's just logical. Has the penny dropped now for you? Because we are starting to run out of pennies. You can still be unpopular, selfish, violent, destructive, against all authority and for the good of the game and still win enough points for promotion. Has the penny dropped? So when they get to the A-league they will be successful? Is that what your saying. Will they actually stay in the A-league for more than a season, So by that rationale NPL > A-league clubs. Logic Anything else???? Paulc, you don't have a leg to stand on, just give up already.
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else? You're getting close. And broad basing their club? If they don't, they become a less popular club and never get promoted. That's just logical. Has the penny dropped now for you? Because we are starting to run out of pennies. You can still be unpopular, selfish, violent, destructive, against all authority and for the good of the game and still win enough points for promotion. Has the penny dropped? So when they get to the A-league they will be successful? Is that what your saying. Will they actually stay in the A-league for more than a season, So by that rationale NPL > A-league clubs. Logic Anything else???? Paulc, you don't have a leg to stand on, just give up already. With that you have destructed me once again according to you, I give up lol.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
AJF
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
|
+x+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin.. Ethnic ties seem to have held Ange back. Imagine how much better the socceroos would be if Ange wasnt from a mono ethnic club background
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI never dreamed there was an issue with clubs still aligned with Italians. Surely the Italians are now viewed as good ethnics, not like all that other rabble constantly at war with each other. Good point Mr Football. It seems the Italian mono ethnic clubs have recognized that enjoying their community can be done by other less controversial means without damaging the code. Notice how they just dispersed into their social clubs and lower leagues without a fuss? Credit where credit is due. That's not to say they did not have their dark days either. Remember those on field riot scenes at Marconi and the unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair? :D unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair? I think that has already been corrected. It was a speaker box I agree after watching the Utube. Makes all the difference to the discussion. Unless of course the chair is heavier and making it more dangerous and therefore implying I wanted to project a greater danger than it really was. I can see the importance of getting it right. Thank you.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
AJF
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
|
+x+x+xI never dreamed there was an issue with clubs still aligned with Italians. Surely the Italians are now viewed as good ethnics, not like all that other rabble constantly at war with each other. Good point Mr Football. It seems the Italian mono ethnic clubs have recognized that enjoying their community can be done by other less controversial means without damaging the code. Notice how they just dispersed into their social clubs and lower leagues without a fuss? Credit where credit is due. That's not to say they did not have their dark days either. Remember those on field riot scenes at Marconi and the unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair? :D unshaven man running around the pitch trying to hit people with a chair? I bet he was un-washed as well. A-League hooligans are much better groomed than the NSL hooligans ever were.
|
|
|
|
adrtho2
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
Melbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to Pitchka
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin.. Ethnic ties seem to have held Ange back. Imagine how much better the socceroos would be if Ange wasnt from a mono ethnic club background Might have coached a team that has played the best football this country has ever seen and win 2 championships in a row with a 36 game unbeaten run in the process for all we can speculate. lol But I must go against what you're sincerely saying. All NSL clubs provided a good basis of skills for players and coaches but Ange really needed the professional set up and courses the FFA insisted they take to really show his potential.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
|
RBBAnonymous
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to I think you need to read a little more, the Greeks invented philosophy, democracy, good society, even won the European Championship in 2004 and have never let us forget it since. Stop bitching and moaning adrthosopolous2
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina There are forum rules that insist all communications are to be in English. I suppose you tried and failed like your club to change that as well. lol
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
RBBAnonymous
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina There are forum rules that insist all communications are to be in English. I suppose you tried and failed like your club to change that as well. lol Since when has there been a NCIP policy on 442 Just for you paulc - Cro-artz-eeee-yaaa
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina There are forum rules that insist all communications are to be in English. I suppose you tried and failed like your club to change that as well. lol Siktir lan
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
|
paulc
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina There are forum rules that insist all communications are to be in English. I suppose you tried and failed like your club to change that as well. lol Siktir lan Forum Rules and Regulations:
Language
"all posting on Australian FFT is to be made in English, so as to be inclusive of as many readers as possible"It appears inclusivity is absent with the bitters right across the board.
In a resort somewhere
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina There are forum rules that insist all communications are to be in English. I suppose you tried and failed like your club to change that as well. lol Siktir lan Forum Rules and Regulations:
LanguageLanguage
"all posting on Australian FFT is to be made in English, so as to be inclusive of as many readers as possible" It appears inclusivity is absent with the bitters right across the board. -oops, i ate my own poop
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
|
aussie scott21
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
|
anglais merci 
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+xanglais merci Hahahahahaha bah oui
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
|
RBBAnonymous
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+xanglais merci FMD I lost it.........Scott21, you just won the internet.
|
|
|
|
adrtho2
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to I think you need to read a little more, the Greeks invented philosophy, democracy, good society, even won the European Championship in 2004 and have never let us forget it since. Stop bitching and moaning adrthosopolous2 yes, the greek told us 1 million times about what they did 2000 yeas ago, Greeks was also the center of the universe
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to I think you need to read a little more, the Greeks invented philosophy, democracy, good society, even won the European Championship in 2004 and have never let us forget it since. Stop bitching and moaning adrthosopolous2 yes, the greek told us 1 million times about what they did 2000 yeas ago, Greeks was also the center of the universe Where are you from ardtho? What country were you born in? You sound eastern european.... possibly Bulgarian?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|
adrtho2
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to I think you need to read a little more, the Greeks invented philosophy, democracy, good society, even won the European Championship in 2004 and have never let us forget it since. Stop bitching and moaning adrthosopolous2 yes, the greek told us 1 million times about what they did 2000 yeas ago, Greeks was also the center of the universe Where are you from ardtho? What country were you born in? You sound eastern european.... possibly Bulgarian? i'm Australian...i don't support any fuck up European countries
|
|
|
|
adrtho2
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to LOL hard to argue against. Pitchka ti materina what? are you saying i should go back up my mother's vagina?
|
|
|
|
HortoMagiko
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to I think you need to read a little more, the Greeks invented philosophy, democracy, good society, even won the European Championship in 2004 and have never let us forget it since. Stop bitching and moaning adrthosopolous2 yes, the greek told us 1 million times about what they did 2000 yeas ago, Greeks was also the center of the universe Where are you from ardtho? What country were you born in? You sound eastern european.... possibly Bulgarian? i'm Australian...i don't support any fuck up European countries No youre avoiding the question... i asked, "where were you born?". I know english is your second language so lets try again.... "where were you born?"
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
|
|
|
|