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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do , because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this Lol. There is so much wrong with this post i dont know where to begin. I think arthur has explained to you what good business practices are so i wont attempt to reinvent tge wheel there, suffice to say, when it comes to business you have nfi. And Why are you talking about the nsl though? Its irrelevant, albeit a disingenuous way for people to thinly veil their casual racism and bolster a xenophobic agenda. Lets be honest about it.. Smfc are a npl club and former nsl club. Aufc and glory are hal clubs and former nsl clubs. Based on that alone your post is invalid. "Bringing back parts of the nsl" As much of an idiotic statement as it is, "Bringing back parts of tge nsl", as you put it, hasnt killed the hal...youve already been proven wrong on that front. Sounds like unsubstantiated annd unscientific fear mongering. "because it proved itself to be a losing model," You sound utterly confused and cant differentiate between an administrative model amd a club. You spin off into a hal vs nsl argument. Makes no sense. And the whole lesser of two evil argument is a pathetic attempt at whitewashing tge very real issues that still plague our gam,e let alone acceptance of mediocrity. like other arguments. If you let SM and SU58 into the A-League it would turn into the NSL. But if you let in Strikers and Wolves it would not :hehe:
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on..
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of apromotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football.
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket
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azzaMVFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.3K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. That is promising, I didn't know there was a clause like that involved.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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The Dudist
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. But lets forget about the stadium/sponsorship whatever barriers of entry they put up.... How much would the FFA expect clubs to pay to join the 2nd divison? Im sure the A-League clubs wouldnt be happy if they got in for free and Im sure many new clubs wouldnt want to pay. :) maybe its like one million bucks to join and you get the pleasure of paying 4 million more if you get promoted*.
*one time fee conditions apply
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paulbagzFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44K,
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+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Based on what lol? -PB
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play
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Redcarded
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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Back in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6?
sorry Horta, not biting
Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Your doing a wonderful job keep it up.
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Based on what lol? -PB climate change is a load of shit, it base on a guess....but if they are right, and climate change is really happening, then the World is fucked if we don't change what do you take the risk on the A-League can end up like the NBL
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. The FFA Executives don't know how to deal with the issues of promotion and relegation. The sports that they come from it doesn't register. Their cultural reference points are AFL, NRL not our football.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive.
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. The FFA Executives don't know how to deal with the issues of promotion and relegation. The sports that they come from it doesn't register. Their cultural reference points are AFL, NRL not our football. they know it will not work in Australia...it not about cultural reference points., most countries don't have so much sporting competitions as in Australia Japan had baseball and sumo wrestling before they started football ...all these countries have very weak 2nd team sport...
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise?
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Based on what lol? -PB climate change is a load of shit, it base on a guess....but if they are right, and climate change is really happening, then the World is fucked if we don't change what do you take the risk on the A-League can end up like the NBL Interesting article regarding NBL, lots of similarities to HAL & football in OZ A long, painful death for the NBL?
The New Daily, 6:49pm, Mar 16, 2015
The NBL is destined to fail under the existing model.
League chairman Graeme Wade is clearly a man of considerable qualities.Thirty years of consulting experience, in Mergers & Acquisitions and Government advisory, tells us the current Global President and Chairman of CPA Australia is no dill. His latest challenge, however, just may be his greatest.
There is business and there is the business of sport.The latter is a unique beast many a well-qualified suit-and-tie superstar has failed to comprehend and conquer.
Basketball in Australia is on its knees. Its flagship elite competition the NBL is dying a slow, ugly death.
Arguably the country’s greatest ever player, Andrew Gaze, advocates shutting it down for 12 months. But such a move will only be a temporary band-aid solution to a sore that weeps continuously.
Basketball in Australia is a conundrum. How can something so popular with youth not translate to success at elite level? There are two reasons.
The first is that their private ownership model is a failure because it lacks the fundamentals of any successful sporting club in this country. The AFL, NRL and A-League have learned this over many decades.
The following critical success factors (CSF) are what the best clubs within these codes have in common.
1. They are membership-sensitive organisations providing the perception that their members own the club;
2. They have sustained on-field performance;
3. They have clean, financially-beneficial stadium rights allowing maximisation of revenue;
4. Their consistency of team performance and mass of support allows them to maximise their corporate revenue opportunities;
5. They position their brand clearly and actively engage the community in which they operate;
6. Their financial strength allows them to resource their business generously and professionally;
7. The player payments are mostly funded by the governing body through media rights thus providing security and surety; and
8. They build an asset base of a non-core revenue stream through gaming activities. Alternatively they are subsidised via the governing body who determine their requirements are in the best interest of the growth of their codes. AFL clubs in the northern markets are beneficiaries of these arrangements.
The game relies on deep-pocketed individuals to fund clubs. This is unsustainable – the data does not lie.
Since the inception of the NBL in 1979, 32 clubs have become defunct.
The demise of Townsville and Wollongong and the murmurings about the financial losses Adelaide and Melbourne United are incurring smells crisis which impacts significantly on the critical success factors I refer to.
Only Perth and New Zealand stand out as organisations that seem from a distance to tick most of the CSF boxes.
Both are member-strong, community-based clubs.
The second reason for the NBL’s failure is that Australians love the best of the best.
When Gaze, Lanard Copeland, Mark Bradke and co were doing their alley-oops for the Melbourne Tigers in the halcyon days we knew no other.
Now pay television delivers us the best from Europe and the United States at the click of a remote. We have some wonderful Australians playing over there. This will not change. The NBL cannot attract Australians capable of earning the money overseas competitions pay.
Basketball Australia need to take accountability and step back into the fold to fix their problem.
It begins with accepting its place as a second-tier sport. Its niche now is to sit on the periphery as a vehicle for those not quite good enough to play at the elite level.
Perhaps a South East Australia Basketball League (SEABL) is the answer, where regionalised community clubs with strong support commercially play in boutique stadiums not reliant on individuals with deep pockets.
To attempt to do anything else, Mr Wade, is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and expecting a different result!
Too much good is happening at grass roots for this to continue.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise? I just dont see how a full pyramid could work. Queensland for example doesnt have pro rel from NPL. Every year a team from Newcastle and Tasmania get a shot at 2nd division?
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them 50% higher than a figure you pulled out of your ass? AJF is right in pointing that out. There aill always be tent pole clubs, no ons is saying smfc or any other npl club needs to be one. If we're playing the speculation game, then ill go with a better attendance average than the nix.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. The FFA Executives don't know how to deal with the issues of promotion and relegation. The sports that they come from it doesn't register. Their cultural reference points are AFL, NRL not our football. Agree, theyve hit their ceiling. They simply lack the experience on the ground to implement it.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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The tardtho making up stats? Well I never.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+x+x+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise? I just dont see how a full pyramid could work. Queensland for example doesnt have pro rel from NPL. Every year a team from Newcastle and Tasmania get a shot at 2nd division? Promotion and relegation from lower leagues to NPL has to come into force. In the future NPL Clubs that got a shot at the National Second Division would need to demonstrate ability to meet criteria/benchmarks. The nay sayers to promotion-relegation debate never include the adherence to criteria because it doesn't suit their argument. If Tasmania knew they have a window of opportunity to get a Team into the National 2nd Division and its something the stakeholders in Tassie wanted to achieve; what do you think they would be doing to realise their goal?
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hotrod
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.9K,
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+x+x+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise? I just dont see how a full pyramid could work. Queensland for example doesnt have pro rel from NPL. Every year a team from Newcastle and Tasmania get a shot at 2nd division? I think to maintain stability of any 2nd Div, the bottom team of the 2nd Div should play-off against the winner of the National NPLs. The 2nd Div might start with the winner of each state's NPL e.g. from 2015 Canberra Blacktown Edgeworth Morton Bay West Adelaide Olympia South Melbourne Bayswater Say the bottom team in 2016 was Olympia and the winner of the 2016 NPLs was Bentleigh Greens. They then play-off for a place in the 2nd Div. The loser drops back or stays in their state NPL. That way the churn in the 2nd Div is minimised, but stronger teams/states will eventually replace weaker teams/states in the 2nd Div.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+x+x+x+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise? I just dont see how a full pyramid could work. Queensland for example doesnt have pro rel from NPL. Every year a team from Newcastle and Tasmania get a shot at 2nd division? I think to maintain stability of any 2nd Div, the bottom team of the 2nd Div should play-off against the winner of the National NPLs. The 2nd Div might start with the winner of each state's NPL e.g. from 2015 Canberra Blacktown Edgeworth Morton Bay West Adelaide Olympia South Melbourne Bayswater Say the bottom team in 2016 was Olympia and the winner of the 2016 NPLs was Bentleigh Greens. They then play-off for a place in the 2nd Div. The loser drops back or stays in their state NPL. That way the churn in the 2nd Div is minimised, but stronger teams/states will eventually replace weaker teams/states in the 2nd Div. All promotion and relegation should firstly be based on what happens on the pitch, then criteria. If you win the League but cant meet the criteria then you cant get promoted.
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