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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Decentric, normally your analysis is good but I think your stat on chance appears wrong because in effect you are saying every team wins 40% of their matches just on luck, which really sounds a lot like a good excuse for losing against the better team on the day. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. Results will always matter. Try telling my son that not qualifying for the WC doesn't matter. But I think at U16's level its more about what and how these kids are being educated on the game. More importantly are we as a nation moving in the right direction with regards to football education? I have my concerns at state level and now national level. What we are doing in Oz is based on European powerhouse methodology. Of course the results matter to players in their teens.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed.
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made insufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e You and your pesky 'facts'. Tsk tsk. For your sins prepare to be lashed with 'milieu', 'world powerhouses', 'dialectical' and 'excoriation'.
Member since 2008.
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e In my post, I meant to say insufficient instead of sufficient. It gave the wrong message. There is a difference in the definition of world class in the Oz milieu in 2003 compared to what this meant by informed stakeholders overseas. Obviously Schwarzer, Kewell, Neill and Dukes went on to great things. As did Bresc, Grella, Skoko, Okon, Chipper, etc. Then when I look back at games played in 2006, and before by the Socceroos, many of those big name players wouldn't be good enough to displace current incumbents in the 2016 Socceroos when I use all the football criteria for analysis. I know football constantly progresses from decade to decade, but many of our former big name players had weaknesses - like our current players. The difference is we observe the current players all the time and they have lost their mystique. Many of the current players are now very match hardened international players. Cahill, Milligan, Jedi, Spiranovic, Leckie, have played most of their international football against much better opposition than Oceanian teams prior to 2006. Consequently, their games in international football have forced them to improve. When you are coaching in youth /junior ranks now, the tenets for the NC are based on successful overseas methodology. I'm not sure there is any viable alternative? One surprise is the lack of weighting given to heading a ball though in the NC. I find this perplexing?
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Arthur
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+xObviously Schwarzer, Kewell, Neill and Dukes went on to great things. As did Bresc, Grella, Skoko, Okon, Chipper, etc. Then when I look back at games played in 2006, and before by the Socceroos, many of those big name players wouldn't be good enough to displace current incumbents in the 2016 Socceroos when I use all the football criteria for analysis.
I know football constantly progresses from decade to decade, but many of our former big name players had weaknesses - like our current players. The difference is we observe the current players all the time and they have lost their mystique. Many of the current players are now very match hardened international players. Cahill, Milligan, Jedi, Spiranovic, Leckie, have played most of their international football against much better opposition than Oceanian teams prior to 2006. Consequently, their games in international football have forced them to improve. ??????????
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e In my post, I meant to say insufficient instead of sufficient. It gave the wrong message. There is a difference in the definition of world class in the Oz milieu in 2003 compared to what this meant by informed stakeholders overseas. Obviously Schwarzer, Kewell, Neill and Dukes went on to great things. As did Bresc, Grella, Skoko, Okon, Chipper, etc. Then when I look back at games played in 2006, and before by the Socceroos, many of those big name players wouldn't be good enough to displace current incumbents in the 2016 Socceroos when I use all the football criteria for analysis. I know football constantly progresses from decade to decade, but many of our former big name players had weaknesses - like our current players. The difference is we observe the current players all the time and they have lost their mystique. Many of the current players are now very match hardened international players. Cahill, Milligan, Jedi, Spiranovic, Leckie, have played most of their international football against much better opposition than Oceanian teams prior to 2006. Consequently, their games in international football have forced them to improve. When you are coaching in youth /junior ranks now, the tenets for the NC are based on successful overseas methodology. I'm not sure there is any viable alternative? One surprise is the lack of weighting given to heading a ball though in the NC. I find this perplexing? Your comparison with Aussie teams for 2003 could be equally applied to teams form any other country, game has moved on and everyone agrees Pele wouldn't be able to do what he did in the 60's now but that doesn't lessen the fact he was the worlds greatest player then. Fact is back then we were producing players who played in the highest leagues, whereas at the moment we don't. Before we joined Asia, we had to play against teams from south america and I would highly doubt current Socceroos squad would come close to beating current Uruguay team over 2 legs to qualify. NC is based on Dutch development system and unfortunately they haven't done much of late (didn't even make the Euros this year when powerhouses like Iceland did) so I am not sure they are the best example. New FFA TD Abrams is Belgian and preliminary noises coming from him are much better and don't be surprised if the current NC gets changed away from Dutch basis soon. But at a grass roots level, biggest improvements have been coming with the introduction of NPL at junior level, where quality kids are playing against other quality kids, which in turn is forcing them to improve. There is still improvement to be made (personally i think there are too many NPL teams so quality juniors are spread too thin) but some of the junior matches I've seen would rival some HAL games in terms of skill, ball movement & quality (there are still plenty that are crap :)).
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e In my post, I meant to say insufficient instead of sufficient. It gave the wrong message. There is a difference in the definition of world class in the Oz milieu in 2003 compared to what this meant by informed stakeholders overseas. Obviously Schwarzer, Kewell, Neill and Dukes went on to great things. As did Bresc, Grella, Skoko, Okon, Chipper, etc. Then when I look back at games played in 2006, and before by the Socceroos, many of those big name players wouldn't be good enough to displace current incumbents in the 2016 Socceroos when I use all the football criteria for analysis. I know football constantly progresses from decade to decade, but many of our former big name players had weaknesses - like our current players. The difference is we observe the current players all the time and they have lost their mystique. Many of the current players are now very match hardened international players. Cahill, Milligan, Jedi, Spiranovic, Leckie, have played most of their international football against much better opposition than Oceanian teams prior to 2006. Consequently, their games in international football have forced them to improve. When you are coaching in youth /junior ranks now, the tenets for the NC are based on successful overseas methodology. I'm not sure there is any viable alternative? One surprise is the lack of weighting given to heading a ball though in the NC. I find this perplexing? NC is based on Dutch development system and unfortunately they haven't done much of late (didn't even make the Euros this year when powerhouses like Iceland did) so I am not sure they are the best example. New FFA TD Abrams is Belgian and preliminary noises coming from him are much better and don't be surprised if the current NC gets changed away from Dutch basis soon. NC isn't based on Dutch KNVB. I've done Advanced courses with KNVB and FFA. The FFA's methodology is an amalgamation of Dutch, French, German and Spanish methodology. There are similarities, but slight differences. Belgium and Germany borrowed heavily from the Dutch in the early 20000s. ATM the KNVB are refining their curriculum after their failure to qualify for the recent Euro champs. They are already in France and Germany looking at ways to improve. Abrams will have used a lot of Dutch stuff, but Belgium has had a lot more recent success. Although third and second by the Dutch in the last two World Cups is not too bad.
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e In my post, I meant to say insufficient instead of sufficient. It gave the wrong message. There is a difference in the definition of world class in the Oz milieu in 2003 compared to what this meant by informed stakeholders overseas. Obviously Schwarzer, Kewell, Neill and Dukes went on to great things. As did Bresc, Grella, Skoko, Okon, Chipper, etc. Then when I look back at games played in 2006, and before by the Socceroos, many of those big name players wouldn't be good enough to displace current incumbents in the 2016 Socceroos when I use all the football criteria for analysis. I know football constantly progresses from decade to decade, but many of our former big name players had weaknesses - like our current players. The difference is we observe the current players all the time and they have lost their mystique. Many of the current players are now very match hardened international players. Cahill, Milligan, Jedi, Spiranovic, Leckie, have played most of their international football against much better opposition than Oceanian teams prior to 2006. Consequently, their games in international football have forced them to improve. When you are coaching in youth /junior ranks now, the tenets for the NC are based on successful overseas methodology. I'm not sure there is any viable alternative? One surprise is the lack of weighting given to heading a ball though in the NC. I find this perplexing? Your comparison with Aussie teams for 2003 could be equally applied to teams form any other country, game has moved on and everyone agrees Pele wouldn't be able to do what he did in the 60's now but that doesn't lessen the fact he was the worlds greatest player then. Fact is back then we were producing players who played in the highest leagues, whereas at the moment we don't. Before we joined Asia, we had to play against teams from south america and I would highly doubt current Socceroos squad would come close to beating current Uruguay team over 2 legs to qualify. First paragraph is a very, very good point. Current Socceroos are much more match savvy than 2006 Socceroos in terms of Uruguay. 2006 Uruguay was a weak team by their standards. At the same time 2006 Socceroos were a dismal failure in Asian Cup 2007. 2011 and 2015 Socceroos exceeded 2006 Socceroos in the Asian Cup.
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dirk vanadidas
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The current is isues are not with the NC per se, but how it is delivered. The NPL/A league academies need to be tiered in NSW/VIc as the talent is too thinly spread when it goeso 9/11 aside. How about tier 1 A league acadamies and the 'A2' academies, with only 5/6 clubs in each state centred around the Mel/Syd. tier 3 other NPL clubs The NC combined with Futsal has done wonders for some players who have gone overseas.
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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Jonsnow
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Decentric , some pretty good points in above posts , I recon you should do a full player by player analysis on tomorrow's semi final v Veitnam ? Would be interesting for someone to provide a warts and all educated feedback.
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lukerobinho
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA discussion regards the language police. But we are losing to Laos ffs. Yeah there's that too. Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'. Yeah I hate that crap. Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over. Results matter but sometimes some of the people on here need to realise in youth football the score isn't the only result. That said at u-19 level the scoreline does matter a lot. They should be doing better, this side is really struggling to put balls in the back of the net. On another day than the one against Laos, they could've put 6 in the back of the net from the chances created. The Australian performance in this game, was a lot better than the result. The point made by FFA is that a high component of results are attributable to chance - approximately 40%. Yet some get so upset by losses that can be considered an upset. FFA boffins, led by Berger citing European scenarios, also conclude that many Aussie star youth players in tournaments fade out, or become mediocre pro footballers, not fulfilling early promise. Sometimes overage cheating occurs. This was apparent in most of the Nigererian team who just won the order 16/17 World Cup. The only definite way to ensure it doesn't occur is playing senior football. I've also read other articles where stars in underage World Cups fade out from countries all around the world - not just Kaz Patafta. We've all seen upsets. Particularly in recent times where a few NPL teams have been fortunate to defeat HAL teams in the FFA Cup. Football is a results game and anyone who thinks they dont matter is kidding themselves. If we arent concerned with how the U16 go in this tournament and their results dont matter, why did we bother sending them, surely the money could have been better spent on other development activities in Australia. There are so many criteria to assess teams now, that results are one facet of the game. Something I learnt at a recent coaching seminar was that Ange divides a team into analysing three parts of the pitch. The attacking third, midfield third and defensive third. Then a team can be appraised in the three thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. This comprises 6 analytical criteria. Using these criteria the Socceroos may be weakest in Ball Possession and covering chances in the attacking third and also weaker in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive third compared to other areas of the pitch and phases of play. Then an individual player can be appraised on four different technical criteria. One well known criteria in any given game, is the chances created, inside and outside the box, compared to the opposition. Modern analytical criteria goes on and on. This means games can be evaluated beyond goals scored and conceded. I hope this has elucidated some complex issues when some argue results are everything in underage football. all those things are fantastic and certainly help teams improve their performance, but in the end football is a simple game, whoever puts more balls into the back of the net wins. More wins, better the team. style, possession, BP, BP>BPO, shots on target, and all other the stats are meaningless because at the end of this tournament (like every tournament) no one will remember or care about stats, the only team that will be remembered is the one who held up the trophy at the end and how far we progressed. The FFA Techcical Department will be poring over all the criteria after the event . In the past, NSL clubs have recently been appraised as having had a good set up for producing underage players who were match ready for underage tournaments. Results were often good. However, the flaw in this old system, was that few of those players who achieved successful underage results, made sufficient progress to acquire a skill set that extrapolated to senior level that are axiomatically recognised as being effective to be a world powerhouse. This is not a NSL v HAL v NC pissing contest, but ref the National Team lists from 2003 below FYI and there are many names there that you would be hard pressed to say were not world class, and all came through before the NC or HAL were invented. Issue for me & many others involved in junior coaching/development is that despite the sales job regarding NC, not many of the kids coming through now will come close to level of those below. Yes NC & current system is more professional, but something is still missing. | Socceroos | Sep-03 | U23’s | Dec-03 | U20’s | Nov-03 | U17’s | Jul-03 | | Goalkeepers | Mark Schwarzer | GK | *Eugene Galekovic | GK | Nathan Coe | GK | Nick Crossley | | | Zeljko Kalac | | * Michael Turnbull | | *Tom Willis | | Mario Aparicio | | Defenders | Steve Laybutt | DEF | Ljubo Milicevic | DEF | *Alex Wilkinson | | Nathan Hughes | | | Jon McKain | | *Michael Beauchamp | | *Michael Thwaite | DEF | *Jacob Timpano | | | Kevin Muscat | | Jon McKain | | *Steve Pantelidis | | Keegan Wolfenden | | | Lucas Neill | | David Tarka | | David Tarka | | Nigel Boogard | | | Ljubo Milicevic | | Shane Cansdell-Sherriff | | *Wayne Heath | | Ben Griffin | | | Tony Vidmar | | *Jade North | MID | Spase Dilevski | | *Adrian Leijer | | Midfielders | Mile Sterjovski | MID | Carl Valeri | | *Massimo Murdocca | MID | *Kristian Sarkies | | | Marco Bresciano | | Luke Wilkshire | | Carl Valeri | | Eric Paartalu | | | Scott Chipperfield | | *Matthew McKay | | *Matthew McKay | | Matt Christensen | | | Steve Corica | | *Ahmed Elrich | | *Jonathan Richter | | Dane Richardson | | | Vince Grella | | *Michael Thwaite | | *Dustin Wells | | Lachlan Cahill | | | Paul Okon | | Spase Dilevski | | *Vince Lia | | Angelo Martino | | | Josip Skoko | | *Nick Carle | | *Anthony Danze | FOR | Serkan Oksuz | | Forwards | Brett Holman | | *Anthony Pelikan | | *Jobe Wheelhouse | | *Richard Cardozo | | | Harry Kewell | FOR | *Dylan Macallister | | Mile Jedinak | | Adam Casey | | | Mark Viduka | | *Ryan Griffiths | FOR | Scott McDonald | | Dez Giraldi | | | | | Brett Holman | | *Alex Brosque | | Matt Hilton | e And of course who could forget the 1999 u17 team that pushed Brazil all way in the final featuring future world class stars such as Mark Byrnes Adrian madaschi Jade North and Dylan Macallister... Yes cleary youth results are the barometer
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grazorblade
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that u23s team is amazing compared to the other 2 teams listed. The other two made up the worst generation in our history
incidentally at the 2004 olympics we drew with tunisia lost to argentina and were knocked out by iraq
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grazorblade
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random thought
our golden generation were olympians at the 2000 and 2004 olympics when funding for olympic sports went through the roof
I wonder if hosting the olympics (and the subsequent funding boost that provided) was responsible for that remarkable generation
Outside the golden generation australia hasn't produced a very strong generation with the current one being above average
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AJF
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I have a few friends who played in NSL & one who is an ex socceroo (although he was a fringe player) and the common theme that comes up is that with the NSL, there was a direct path from juniors through to the seniors. So these guys when they were 14-15 were playing in their age groups but were also getting pushed up into 18's & 20's, and then when they were 16-17 they were then given shots in the seniors, which happened to be NSL. Also through the various cups & other competitions, young kids playing for State teams would come up against NSL clubs & often they would get poached and get their chance also. Sound familiar, think Jai Ingham from Hume. Obviously not everyone made it and there are may guys I know who didnt succeed, but personally I see that as a major weakness with the HAL and the sooner the HAL teams all get proper academies running the better, but also the FFA cup and NYL teams playing in NPL comps is definitely giving more kids exposure and the opportunities which were missing a few years ago.
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grazorblade
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hopefully academies - as you say - make a huge difference
but outside of the golden gen the teams we produced weren't exactly spectacular. I wonder if olympic funding helped....just a thought
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Barca4Life
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Watched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football.
Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical.
Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan.
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grazorblade
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+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. i would definitely think older teams do a lot better at managing counter attacks finishing doesn't improve as much apart from power of shots
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Barca4Life
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+x+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. i would definitely think older teams do a lot better at managing counter attacks finishing doesn't improve as much apart from power of shots Yeah thats my point i don't think our problems are black and white like they made out to be, when their are small minor details that need to be more urgently addressed. We are getting much more better controlling games which in the past we wont very good at but when venturing into the final third our players still are lacking a bit individually. i.e crossing, shooting, final pass etc. I think Abrams the new TD mentioned this once where he said we train too much on the style of play and less on the improving the quality of players i could be wrong though... We still need to learn to cut out the main countering attack moments (BPO moments) but we are with improving the ball, so we are getting there. The more i think about it recently the joeys problems revolve mainly around coaching as the young socceroos have good structure in how they play.
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Jonsnow
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Tonight's game v Veitnam will be a good measure of where we are , from what I have seen so far of Talay,s team they are playing a more up tempo game than Okons teams .
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Muz
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+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. Are you Decentric in disguise? We got pined, shellacked and had our pants pulled down 5-1 and apparently ' we played the much better football' Would hate to see the scoreline if we played shit. FMD.
Member since 2008.
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Barca4Life
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+x+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. Are you Decentric in disguise? We got pined, shellacked and had our pants pulled down 5-1 and apparently ' we played the much better football' Would hate to see the scoreline if we played shit. FMD. Hey look who is back lol
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TheSelectFew
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+x+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. Are you Decentric in disguise? We got pined, shellacked and had our pants pulled down 5-1 and apparently ' we played the much better football' Would hate to see the scoreline if we played shit. FMD. This. The idea results don't matter kills me. If you get wrecked by 5 goals to 1 to a side like Thailand and then win 2 goals to 1 to a side like Laos how can you be playing good football?
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Arthur
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+x+x+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. Are you Decentric in disguise? We got pined, shellacked and had our pants pulled down 5-1 and apparently ' we played the much better football' Would hate to see the scoreline if we played shit. FMD. This. The idea results don't matter kills me. If you get wrecked by 5 goals to 1 to a side like Thailand and then win 2 goals to 1 to a side like Laos how can you be playing good football? Unfortunately you don't get points for style like diving. "If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley
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Mustang67
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Our u16's take on Japan tonight. Will be interesting how the boys go against clearly the best side in the comp. Don't think Japan will sit back and try and get us on the counter. This should make for a very interesting contest. Good luck boys.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Seems the opinion was that we succeeded at junior level in the past by playing kids who peaked early physically but lacked technical ability.
Supposedly, the new system is creating more technical players . If that's true, why are they getting beaten by third world football countries? Are thee countries full of kids that peaked early? Doubt it.
My opinion is that players develop skills in training where winning isn't important. In tournaments those skills should be used to win. Tournaments are not training runs.
There's something seriously wrong when a 5-1 loss isn't a cause for concern.
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quickflick
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+xrandom thought our golden generation were olympians at the 2000 and 2004 olympics when funding for olympic sports went through the roof I wonder if hosting the olympics (and the subsequent funding boost that provided) was responsible for that remarkable generation Outside the golden generation australia hasn't produced a very strong generation with the current one being above average I think that was a coincidence. I think it had more to do with the flukiness of all of Harry, Dukes, Jason Culina, Bresch, Vinnie, Timmy, Craig Moore, Lucas, Mark Schwarzer being excellent footballers and excellent footballers who had been in Europe for a long time (since their teenage years in the case of the best of them). But I've got no issues with increasing funding for football and Olympic sports ;)
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TheSelectFew
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+xSeems the opinion was that we succeeded at junior level in the past by playing kids who peaked early physically but lacked technical ability. Supposedly, the new system is creating more technical players . If that's true, why are they getting beaten by third world football countries? Are thee countries full of kids that peaked early? Doubt it. My opinion is that players develop skills in training where winning isn't important. In tournaments those skills should be used to win. Tournaments are not training runs. There's something seriously wrong when a 5-1 loss isn't a cause for concern. Exactly this.
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quickflick
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+x+x+xWatched the Thailand the Laos games, i don't think the way of playing isnt the problem for me its about managing the counter attacks and being more efficient in the final third i.e last pass or shot which seems to be a problem at all levels...but they play some nice football. Technically we weren't any worse than the two teams we played the much better football, but their finishing especially thailand was very good and clinical. Shabow and Maia look like exceptional players for the young socceroos technically good and decision making decent, promising if you're a WSW fan. Are you Decentric in disguise? We got pined, shellacked and had our pants pulled down 5-1 and apparently ' we played the much better football' Would hate to see the scoreline if we played shit. FMD. This. The idea results don't matter kills me. If you get wrecked by 5 goals to 1 to a side like Thailand and then win 2 goals to 1 to a side like Laos how can you be playing good football? Exactly. The idea that 'results don't matter at youth level' is wrong (and dangerous) for the exact reason that the 'results don't matter at youth level' brigade say that 'results don't matter at youth level'. In any elite sport, especially football, the psychological component is one of the most important aspects. That's not to say the technical and tactical components, and talent, aren't important. Just that mentality counts for a lot. Why is it that our most prolific footballer ever is still playing (and playing better than most of the rest) despite being nowhere near as good technically (except in finishing) as others? Because he's mentally tough as fuck. He was in South London as a teenager, a million miles away from most of his family and hustling hard. He learnt to be tough. He just never gives up. And we love him for that. And the Millwall and Everton fans (despite being scum ;) ) also love him for that and will do forever. So what kind of a message does it send to our youth footballers to tell them results don't matter? It's chalk and cheese compared to the way Timmy did things at a similar age. Those who say 'results don't matter at youth level' say that because they're, understandably, drawing attention to the supreme importance of technical and tactical football at a young age. They don't understand the importance of mental toughness which is also best worked on at a young age. Therefore results do matter at international youth level, they just aren't quite the be all and end all and need to be looked at in the context of playing style and so on. But our youth footballers must not think that results don't matter. That's the important thing.
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