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quickflick
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inala brah- EPL also likes pacey, skilful CAMs so that says nothing of gap between it and the Championship
- Wagner is a top notch Euro coach (not hoofball), so why does he think Mooy is best used in central midfield and prefers pacey, one-on-one skills at CAM?
- Just because Australian football is all about technique and tactics, don’t think athleticism isn’t important in some positions. Sometimes you need footballers with all that
- Mooy-esque CAM is great when you play 442 (diamond midfield) and have fast, one-on-one skilled and clinical strikers. Different story if you don’t got that. You might then want to compensate for those skills in CAM
- It’s all hunky dory for Huddersfield at the minute with Mooy deeper, so why the fuss?
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIf Mooy does get bought he will go for a lot. He's considered a "home-grown player" because of the time he spent at Bolton. Fan post on the Hudd game. Also their next game VA Sheffield Wednesday will be televised. Sunday after the Japanese game in Melbourne on the Tuesday. /// Just back - another great win. Bit surprised with the starting line up. Both Whitehead and Hogg in the holding roles and Mooy in da hole. We pretty well still managed to hedge the first half against a typical Ipswich solid and diligent outfit. Thought they actually played it out better than us from the back but they had very little in the way of pace and quality up front. Even so Huddy struggled a bit with Best but managed to claw him to the ground when trouble threatened. Ref was pretty wise to it and free kicks looked the most likely way that Ipswich would get amongst us - but we defended them well. Huddy getting a bit embarrassing tbh. We looked sharp when we could get forward but didn't dominate midfield as much as usual. Great set up play saw Kachunga hit the post and I think the follow up from either Mooy or Nahki brilliant save by their keeper. Moment of worry on about 40 minutes when one of their forwards luckily beat the offside trap and had a pretty easy chance which he curled wide when he should at least have tested the keeper - but he bottled it basically. So level at half time. Mooy wasn't really working in the hole for me although Whitehead and Hogg were brilliant behind him. Just doesn't have the pace or strength to play that type of role in the Championship to me. Needed either Palmer with his pace, strength and ability or the trickery and sharpness of Payne. However, our manager is brilliant and seemed to realise his mistake by changing it round in the second half - not by bringing either Payne or Palmer on but VLP. Whitehead was excellent - but to move Mooy back to his normal position was the right thing to do. Line up then seemed more like 4-2-4 at times (only fans born before 1960 will understand what that means). In game terms it turned a pretty dour match into a more open game. We were stretched in midfield but were back on track. We were pressing a lot with Nahki leading the line. He really looks fit and back up to it. Although he didn't score today he gave the Ipwsich defence not a minutes peace along with Kachunga, VLP and the hitherto unmentioned Scannell who had a cracking game on the right side with Smith. His pressing and chasing back was outstanding. So to the goal. We had a free kick some distance out round the centre circle. Instead of passing backwards Mooy I think hit it down the left channel - badly. Their defender could have let it drift over his head for a dead ball without a Town player within 20 yards. Instead he tried to nod it back to his keeper and it went for a fortuitous corner. Great delivery by Mooy and great run by Schindler to get in front of his marker and flip a delicious header into the corner. Sure every Town fan could see it bury in the corner. Strangely after that the game became very open. VLP had a big impact down the left. His pace frightened them and he even chased their full back to the edge of the box, overtook him and won the ball and then a freekick as the hapless full back tried to prevent him taking the ball back up the field. Common sense prevailed and we went into the defensive block for the last 10 and again saw out the game comfortably. While you are only 1--0 you are always hostage to fortune and sometime its going to bite us - but not this week. Ipswich were strong but poor with no quality up front to frighten us. Their home record is good but I thought we paid them too much respect and could have taken them apart with Palmer or Payne in the line up. Clear at the top going in to the second International break and still bitching! Dreamland. MoM Hogg with several others very close! Read more: http://downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/102070/ipswich-town-match-thread?page=11#ixzz4Lsdd39fm he big on the 2 young players Palmer and Payne, who didn't even play in that game :laugh: pace and strength the most important features for a number 10. lolllllsssss. what a stooge. no wonder they say the gap between premier league and the championship is growing. jedi having some shockers huh? defenders always wear the blame for goals. because they are in front of goals. jedi plays every game 80-90% perfect. its the howlers he has in the other 10-20% that are concerning. Not the most important features. But does he say that? Or does he just say those are important features? Also I'd wager that many of those involved with coaching and playing in the Premier League would agree that pace and strength are important for a CAM. So it doesn't really say that much about the gap between the Premier League and the Championship, imo. The other thing to remember is that Wagner, who's hardly your run-of-the-mill hoofball manager, seems to like the idea of having a pacy CAM who excels in one-on-one's and playing Mooy a bit deeper where he can control the tempo more. In Australia's new age of technical football, it's very easy to forget that there are specific physical attributes that are useful in specific positions. For some parts of the park, it's advisable to have an athlete who has the technical ability and the football IQ (and hence most of the best footballers in the world for that position are athletes with the technical ability and football IQ). It's very easy to think in false dichotomies of either athleticism or technique. But the reality is that, for some parts of the park, both those things are needed. It's not an either or proposition. English football, rightly or wrongly, prizes specific attributes in specific positions. So many of the best footballers in the world who play attacking roles have pace and one-on-one skills. So it's hardly ludicrous. I, personally, think it's a bit restrictive. I think there are outstanding CAMs who are neither overly quick nor great at passing opponents on their own. I've thought a bit more deeply about this CAM attributes proposition. I think if you're playing 442 with a diamond midfield and you have a couple of strikers who have that pace and one-on-one skill, then fair enough, Mooy is a great bet in the CAM role. You want him in the position to distribute to those strikers. But for that to work, bare minimum, you need at least one striker who has pace, one-on-one skill and clinical finishing. If you're not so confident with your strikers (as is the predicament for the Australian NT), then you might want a bit more of a dynamic CAM than Mooy. So if you don't have so much faith in your striker(s)'s ability, then you want to be able to compensate for that at the CAM position. Then you want a CAM who can blitz through defences on his own. That's fair enough. Similarly, if you're playing 4-2-3-1 and your striker doesn't have the ability to do lots on his own, or you just think you need more options who can do it all on their own, then you want to have that CAM who can has pace and one-on-one ability. In those circumstances, you'd sooner have Mooy a bit further back and dictating play. I'm not sure of Huddersfield Town's formation, nor do I know much about their strikers, but that analysis didn't seem in the slightest bit unreasonable to me. But things are working perfectly for Huddersfield at the minute with Mooy deeper. So I don't get why people get their knickers in a knot about it. tldr uang =unfamiliar abbreviation, needed google (as I forgot what tldr stands for, although it looked familiar) Sorry. Essay-mode. If you do wish to read it, you'll find it does engage with your post. But I guess I'll end up being muted by all bar Decentric and Munrubenmuz. I like your posts mate. They are a bit long though. Cheers. I'm all for nuances of football. To explain this I write too much. I could to pretend I'm talking to girls (albeit about football) and that'll force me to be briefer. Although I like this forum because I can let off sports-nerd steam. I try to do things very differently in real life. Edit. That sounds horrifically sexist. Not meant that way. Not suggesting women are any less intelligent or that they can't like football (most I know don't). Just that getting bogged down in details doesn't help what they call "game".
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Gruen
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Wagner clearly wanted to be more defensive away to Ipswitch for whatever reason so he played two very defensive DMs, Hogg and Whitehead together. There was some concern on the Huddersfield forum that the two of them would not work well together and should not be playing together. Hence Mooy was moved to the number 10 role in a more defensive team than the one Huddersfield have been playing.
I read the comments about Mooy in the number 10 role comparing him to Payne and Palmer as not saying that being quick and strong is the primary asset for the number 10 role but it is the assets Payne has that Mooy does not have that has help Payne play well in the number 10 role. The comments is that Palmer is far more tricky than Mooy, which is perhaps not that surprising seeing he is a 19 year old on loan from Chelsea. So the comments highlight a physical difference between Payne and Mooy and a skill difference between Palmer and Mooy.
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quickflick
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+xWagner clearly wanted to be more defensive away to Ipswitch for whatever reason so he played two very defensive DMs, Hogg and Whitehead together. There was some concern on the Huddersfield forum that the two of them would not work well together and should not be playing together. Hence Mooy was moved to the number 10 role in a more defensive team than the one Huddersfield have been playing. I read the comments about Mooy in the number 10 role comparing him to Payne and Palmer as not saying that being quick and strong is the primary asset for the number 10 role but it is the assets Payne has that Mooy does not have that has help Payne play well in the number 10 role. The comments is that Palmer is far more tricky than Mooy, which is perhaps not that surprising seeing he is a 19 year old on loan from Chelsea. So the comments highlight a physical difference between Payne and Mooy and a skill difference between Palmer and Mooy. You can watch some decent highlights of Palmer on YouTube for Chelsea youth. They're in keeping with the comments from the Huddersfield forum and your inference (which I tend to share). Doesn't mean Mooy's any less important in Huddersfield football set-up, just that his skills (which nobody else at Huddersfield quite has, apparently) are better used in more of a central role.
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eldorado
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+xRyan not starting. Disappointed as its on Bein at a decent time. I think he's still injured...
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Gruen
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+x+xWagner clearly wanted to be more defensive away to Ipswitch for whatever reason so he played two very defensive DMs, Hogg and Whitehead together. There was some concern on the Huddersfield forum that the two of them would not work well together and should not be playing together. Hence Mooy was moved to the number 10 role in a more defensive team than the one Huddersfield have been playing. I read the comments about Mooy in the number 10 role comparing him to Payne and Palmer as not saying that being quick and strong is the primary asset for the number 10 role but it is the assets Payne has that Mooy does not have that has help Payne play well in the number 10 role. The comments is that Palmer is far more tricky than Mooy, which is perhaps not that surprising seeing he is a 19 year old on loan from Chelsea. So the comments highlight a physical difference between Payne and Mooy and a skill difference between Palmer and Mooy. You can watch some decent highlights of Palmer on YouTube for Chelsea youth. They're in keeping with the comments from the Huddersfield forum and your inference (which I tend to share). Doesn't mean Mooy's any less important in Huddersfield football set-up, just that his skills (which nobody else at Huddersfield quite has, apparently) are better used in more of a central role. Clearly if Wagner was prepared to play Mooy at number 10 ahead of Payne and Palmer then Wagner feels Mooy is more important to the midfield, almost certainly his best midfielder in his view. It is also interesting that Huddersfield despite topping the league are one of the worst teams in the league in creating shots on goal. So they are top not due to creating more chances but being extremely efficient at converting them into goals.
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sydneycroatia58
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+x+xThere's a difference between actually broadcasting a match and just having a camera there for a highlights package like they have in that video and for every game. are you saying they just flick the "on" switch before a goal happens? are they psychic? no. they film the whole game and in decent quality and cut their highlights from the footage. there is no reason why they couldnt stream it/televise it. Are you saying there's no reason why they couldn't stream or televise it in England?
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quickflick
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+x+x+xWagner clearly wanted to be more defensive away to Ipswitch for whatever reason so he played two very defensive DMs, Hogg and Whitehead together. There was some concern on the Huddersfield forum that the two of them would not work well together and should not be playing together. Hence Mooy was moved to the number 10 role in a more defensive team than the one Huddersfield have been playing. I read the comments about Mooy in the number 10 role comparing him to Payne and Palmer as not saying that being quick and strong is the primary asset for the number 10 role but it is the assets Payne has that Mooy does not have that has help Payne play well in the number 10 role. The comments is that Palmer is far more tricky than Mooy, which is perhaps not that surprising seeing he is a 19 year old on loan from Chelsea. So the comments highlight a physical difference between Payne and Mooy and a skill difference between Palmer and Mooy. You can watch some decent highlights of Palmer on YouTube for Chelsea youth. They're in keeping with the comments from the Huddersfield forum and your inference (which I tend to share). Doesn't mean Mooy's any less important in Huddersfield football set-up, just that his skills (which nobody else at Huddersfield quite has, apparently) are better used in more of a central role. Clearly if Wagner was prepared to play Mooy at number 10 ahead of Payne and Palmer then Wagner feels Mooy is more important to the midfield, almost certainly his best midfielder in his view. It is also interesting that Huddersfield despite topping the league are one of the worst teams in the league in creating shots on goal. So they are top not due to creating more chances but being extremely efficient at converting them into goals. Very interesting stat, that. That runs against everything I've said. Would that be different if Mooy were further afield? It might do. By the same token, he might struggle to get as much of the ball as he does in central midfield. This would also stifle their chances on goal.
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hog1
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+x+xRyan not starting. Disappointed as its on Bein at a decent time. I think he's still injured... Alves with an awesome penalty save. I have a feeling these injuries of Ryan are going to really fuck him over. Alves is really starting to cement that no.1 spot again
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Ds98
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+x+x+xRyan not starting. Disappointed as its on Bein at a decent time. I think he's still injured... Alves with an awesome penalty save. I have a feeling these injuries of Ryan are going to really fuck him over. Alves is really starting to cement that no.1 spot again What a Save! Class!
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Bundoora B
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+xinala brah- EPL also likes pacey, skilful CAMs so that says nothing of gap between it and the Championship
- Wagner is a top notch Euro coach (not hoofball), so why does he think Mooy is best used in central midfield and prefers pacey, one-on-one skills at CAM?
- Just because Australian football is all about technique and tactics, don’t think athleticism isn’t important in some positions. Sometimes you need footballers with all that
- Mooy-esque CAM is great when you play 442 (diamond midfield) and have fast, one-on-one skilled and clinical strikers. Different story if you don’t got that. You might then want to compensate for those skills in CAM
- It’s all hunky dory for Huddersfield at the minute with Mooy deeper, so why the fuss?
!!! nailed it :) i dont really think mooy has any issues in terms of athleticism. he's not going to match bellerin but he's hardly slow. he has a big engine and is quite strong for his size. he really uses his body well. you dont need to be as athletic if you have brains and/or finesse and mooy has plenty of that. the main issue for mooy in an 8 role is that he wants to be a 10. they offered him that in melbourne and he took it. problem for mooy is he is probably a better 8 than most.
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Bundoora B
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i just read somewhere that armenakas scored a goal and picked up an assist for udinese youth team. still many thinking he will be the youngest australian debutant ever in the serie a. he tweetered it https://twitter.com/panaldinho10/status/782246614312386562
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CharlieYankos
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+xIrving for Cahills replacement (joke). Seriously though he is having a great time of it. I haven't had a chance to see any of his games in full, so does anyone have an opinion on his distribution, defensive work etc could he be a long term replacement for Jedi or Milligan? anyone know where Irvine has been playing for Burton? Does not seem as defensive as in Scotland from those highlights.... seems more advanced?
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Bundoora B
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leckies ingolstadt have lost 5 on the trot. i didnt realise that they had a new boss. that explains a hell of a lot. he will be gone if this keeps up. Ralph Hasenhüttl has left after bringing ingolstadt up to the B1 and taking them through a sold first year. he is now with leipzig who are sitting in 5th.
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Bundoora B
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+x+xIrving for Cahills replacement (joke). Seriously though he is having a great time of it. I haven't had a chance to see any of his games in full, so does anyone have an opinion on his distribution, defensive work etc could he be a long term replacement for Jedi or Milligan? anyone know where Irvine has been playing for Burton? Does not seem as defensive as in Scotland from those highlights.... seems more advanced? from what i have heard he's box to box - an 8 with a license to roam and take shots.
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sydneycroatia58
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Alves just saved another penalty lol
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quickflick
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+x+xinala brah- EPL also likes pacey, skilful CAMs so that says nothing of gap between it and the Championship
- Wagner is a top notch Euro coach (not hoofball), so why does he think Mooy is best used in central midfield and prefers pacey, one-on-one skills at CAM?
- Just because Australian football is all about technique and tactics, don’t think athleticism isn’t important in some positions. Sometimes you need footballers with all that
- Mooy-esque CAM is great when you play 442 (diamond midfield) and have fast, one-on-one skilled and clinical strikers. Different story if you don’t got that. You might then want to compensate for those skills in CAM
- It’s all hunky dory for Huddersfield at the minute with Mooy deeper, so why the fuss?
!!! nailed it :) i dont really think mooy has any issues in terms of athleticism. he's not going to match bellerin but he's hardly slow. he has a big engine and is quite strong for his size. he really uses his body well. you dont need to be as athletic if you have brains and/or finesse and mooy has plenty of that. the main issue for mooy in an 8 role is that he wants to be a 10. they offered him that in melbourne and he took it. problem for mooy is he is probably a better 8 than most. Apparently Mooy was happy to join Melbourne as he'd be a CAM. But do we know that he's still so keen to play that position in Europe? I'm sure he'd love to do so. But maybe Man City's staff have said they want him in more of a central role? Maybe he's not fussed about that. When I say athleticism... in this context I'm talking about that extra yard of pace, that ability to break the line and to use one-on-ones with close control and at pace. It seems that's a skillset they value highly in their CAMs. As far as I'm aware, this type of thing isn't Mooy's game. He's highly technical, but in other areas (where others are weak). I completely agree with you that the CAM doesn't need to be very fast if he has a high football IQ and finesse (of which Mooy has both in spades) if the strikers have that pace, individual ability, clinical finishing or there's not much space in the final third. But if that's not the case, then is it unreasonable to expect the CAM to compensate for those skills? And, thereby, to have Mooy in a role further back where he gets more of the ball and dictates play more?
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TheSelectFew
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+xAlves just saved another penalty lol Saving grace is Atleti are still winning.
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sydneycroatia58
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+x+xAlves just saved another penalty lol Saving grace is Atleti are still winning. Don't think that really matters tbh.
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Redcarded
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On whoscored it mentioned that Irvine had played one game as a RB, but all others as a midfielder. Would be good to somehow fit him into the Socceroos with his current scoring record, but midfield is one place we seem have depth
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Bundoora B
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+xOn whoscored it mentioned that Irvine had played one game as a RB, but all others as a midfielder. Would be good to somehow fit him into the Socceroos with his current scoring record, but midfield is one place we seem have depth i reckon he will get a run. he's basically up against jedi, milligan and luongo for 2 spots. considering we basically need milligan as a CB and jedi's form in the championship has been woeful i think irvine is due to take a spot.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+xAlves just saved another penalty lol Saving grace is Atleti are still winning. Don't think that really matters tbh. Either. Hence why putting faith in devine intervention is useless. Lost 2-0 btw.
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playmaker11
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Halloran's starting against leaders Braunschweig. Getting his momentum back.
By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.
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TheSelectFew
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+xHalloran's starting against leaders Braunschweig. Getting his momentum back. Get in.
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TheSelectFew
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I'm shocked if Behich and Halloran don't get a look in tbh. Aziz got 90 in a loss, unfortunately.
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Adelphi
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Ryan's going to find it tough with Alves saving two pens and not doing a lot wrong. Jaume is not a bad keeper either. It's really disappointing that Valencia didn't sell Alves as planned over the transfer window, with three very good goalkeepers on their books game time will be limited, particularly with Ryan's niggling injuries.
Jedinak's form is a problem in the Championship. The Socceroos benefit from Jedinak's experience and leadership qualities but given Irvine's good form he should be getting more game time for Australia as Jedi's likely successor. Degenek is also a natural DM I think? If we can find a decent RB we could see more of him there.
And yeah Behich and Halloran are probably due for a look-in fairly soon. I never rated Halloran that highly at Brisbane but he seems to have grown a lot as a player.
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TheSelectFew
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+xRyan's going to find it tough with Alves saving two pens and not doing a lot wrong. Jaume is not a bad keeper either. It's really disappointing that Valencia didn't sell Alves as planned over the transfer window, with three very good goalkeepers on their books game time will be limited, particularly with Ryan's niggling injuries. Jedinak's form is a problem in the Championship. The Socceroos benefit from Jedinak's experience and leadership qualities but given Irvine's good form he should be getting more game time for Australia as Jedi's likely successor. Degenek is also a natural DM I think? If we can find a decent RB we could see more of him there. And yeah Behich and Halloran are probably due for a look-in fairly soon. I never rated Halloran that highly at Brisbane but he seems to have grown a lot as a player. Thats the magic of the Bundi 2 :)
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TheSelectFew
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Furthermore I never really rated Behich
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quickflick
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+x+xOn whoscored it mentioned that Irvine had played one game as a RB, but all others as a midfielder. Would be good to somehow fit him into the Socceroos with his current scoring record, but midfield is one place we seem have depth i reckon he will get a run. he's basically up against jedi, milligan and luongo for 2 spots. considering we basically need milligan as a CB and jedi's form in the championship has been woeful i think irvine is due to take a spot. O'Neill also? And Degenek? But agreed that Irvine should either be starting for us now.
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TheSelectFew
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Jamieson and Gersbach in action tonight.
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