walnuts
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Bold plan to build new Sydney stadium suspended above Central stationArchitects reveal design for 45,000-seat stadium over rail yards, but proposal meets with tepid government response A new stadium for Sydney in the city centre and served by every major rail line, plus the chance to return Moore Park to parkland. It sounds like a utopian dream from an urban planner. But architecture firm Bates Smart has produced just such a concept, which they have pitched to the NSW government: a 45,000-seat stadium over the platforms and adjacent rail yards at Central station instead of a new stadium at the site of the current Allianz stadium in Moore Park. But despite the proposal’s merits it has been met with a tepid response from the New South Wales government. A government spokesperson said any unsolicited proposal needed “to be evaluated under the appropriate guidelines”. Bates Smart director Philip Vivian says the idea is entirely possible – a stadium is a relatively light structure, equivalent to a six-storey building. The firm has asked engineering company Arup about its concept and believes it is entirely feasible. “It would involve building a podium over the stations – it’s a matter of creating land – then the cost of the stadium on top would be the same, he said. The new stadium would be served directly by all of Sydney’s rail lines, buses and the light rail, while being close to dining precincts in Haymarket and Surry Hills. “It would create a piece of the city that heals a big scar in its fabric,” Vivian said of the concept of building over the vast expanse of rail lines in Sydney’s Central station area. “The Colosseum in Rome established the concept of the stadium as a public space embedded in the fabric of the city; a monumental piece of infrastructure for public spectacle. In modern times however, with the advent of the motor vehicle and the suburbs, stadiums became mono-functional objects, isolated on the periphery of the city and surrounded by car parking,” the Bates Smart brief says. “Today a renaissance is under way, with stadiums once again being integrated into the city fabric and acting as catalysts of urban renewal,” it says. But Bates Smart’s idea appears to have come too late to be given serious consideration by the NSW government. Even though the government only announced its $1.5bn final decision on redeveloping Sydney’s two stadiums in late March, the firm met with resistance when it pitched it in May. The government has already commenced a design competition for the $729m rebuild of Allianz stadium, which will be the first of the two Sydney stadiums to be redeveloped. The other is the ANZ stadium at Homebush, which was built for the 2000 Olympics. The government says it will be announcing the winner in a month and has plans to begin the project before the state election in March next year. However, the NSW government has been prepared to upend planning processes in the past, when it considered there were benefits to NSW. James Packer’s Crown Resorts convinced the O’Farrell government to entirely change the masterplan for Barangaroo six years into the massive project and move a public park away from the water’s edge in order to accommodate his casino on the water’s edge. The government justified accepting the unsolicited proposal by Packer because of the tourism benefits and jobs the casino would bring to Sydney. Vivian said a stadium at Central, rather than Moore Park would bring enormous benefits to the economy because the surrounding areas offered far more opportunities for visitors to spend money. “A stadium should not be an isolated element on the edge of a city or in a park. What people want to do is extend their experience and go out for a meal or to a bar afterwards. At Allianz they spill out into nowhere,” he said. “The NSW government often pays to get major events to Sydney but there’s nothing for tourists to spend their money on when they attend an event at Moore Park,” he said. He also said the location would provide a better backdrop to showcase Sydney in international broadcasts, which would in turn help promote Sydney as a destination. A stadium at Central would also allow Moore Park to be reclaimed as parkland and end the surrounding parkland being used as carparks when events were on. “The whole problem with Moore Park is that it’s based on the outmoded concept of the automobile being the main form of getting to a game,” Vivian said. Building a stadium at Central would also take the time pressure off the government’s plans and a potential blowout in costs as the old stadium at Moore Park could continue to operate until the new stadium is finished. The government currently hopes to begin demolition of Allianz by the end of the year and have it completed by March 2022. The stadium at Homebush, which is now to be refurbished rather than rebuilt at a cost of $850m, is due for completion in mid 2021. The Bates Smart idea will be up against some powerful potential opposition. Radio host Alan Jones and former News Corp managing director John Hartigan are on the board of the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust, which is chaired by former Transfield executive Tony Shepherd. The trust has been the driving force behind the redevelopment at Moore Park. Several reports have recommended the two stadiums be brought under common ownership and managed jointly rather than as rival venues. The Guardian
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I'm no Sydneysider but, assuming the financials stack up, surely this would be a logical place to plonk a new stadium? Solves 99% of the transport issues whilst providing a large boost to CBD businesses during events. Can any Sydney folk enlighten me as to the pros or cons to this project?
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marconi101
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It sounds logical so it won't happen
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
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robstazzz
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+xIt sounds logical so it won't happen LOL Honestly I had the exact same thought. You simply can't come up with a better plan for a stadium in the city than this, it is that good of an idea it'll be rejected simply because it's the best idea. NSW GOV will rather ignore this advice, build a new stadium at Moore park, and in 30 years time go ahead with this idea and throw away billions more down the drain.
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Ultimate
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That would be absolutely amazing! Give SFC proper pregame atmosphere and travel would be seriously reduced for those using public transport Im not sure it would be at all possible to get many cars into the area though. The area they are talking about is supposed to be completely redeveloped into a business park isn't it? Bates Smart director Philip Vivian says the idea is entirely possible – a stadium is a relatively light structure, equivalent to a six-storey building. The firm has asked engineering company Arup about its concept and believes it is entirely feasible. “It would involve building a podium over the stations – it’s a matter of creating land – then the cost of the stadium on top would be the same, he said. I reckon hes taking the piss, the live load of 40,000 people jumping in the stands is going to make the building really light
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T1m
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+xI reckon hes taking the piss, the live load of 40,000 people jumping in the stands is going to make the building really light He is probably talking about how easy it will be to build, not that it won't be heavy. Complexity of building over rail lines gets harder the heavier the object you are building is. A 6 story building would be much less that what they are planning on building there already. In fact a full stadium will be much lighter than what they are planing on building there.
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ErogenousZone
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I love the Docklands Stadium location. Surrounded by people as opposed to the SFS & the Olympic Stadium which are both surrounded by nothing.
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P&R will fix it 2.0
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This isn't new, I saw this I reckon a year or more ago. Might have been when the Greyhound schmozzle was happening, redevoping Wentworth Park options etc
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Burztur
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Can’t see any cons apart from cost.
The SCG Trust will also try to derail this for obvious reasons.
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toffeeAU
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If this is to happen, 45k seems a bit small for such a showpiece stadium. Great idea nonetheless.
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Ultimate
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+xCan’t see any cons apart from cost.The SCG Trust will also try to derail this for obvious reasons. Why haven't the state government bought them out yet. This could be bigger then the mcg
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HeyItsRobbie
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The stadium above central station is a brilliant idea. no more walking kilometers just to attend a game
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Neanderthal
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Yes please. This would make all the difference for me in attend games.
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HeyItsRobbie
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if this is a reality, sydney fc will have the best stadium ever. i would expect a good turn out because walking a marathon will be a thing of the past
get on a train, arrive at the station, and then enter the stadium. simple
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Midfielder
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Brilliant idea.
Also if travelling from interstate you could catch the train from the airport direct to the stadium.
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RBBAnonymous
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This is one of those ideas that is so good that it wont happen. Its bound to be f*$@ed up by the politicians.
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redsfan
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Yeah i think a few security/terrorism issues might pop up when planning a stadium over top of a major train station.
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walnuts
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+xYeah i think a few security/terrorism issues might pop up when planning a stadium over top of a major train station. Ummm, no less than building a skyscraper over a train station?
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Gyfox
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With land value in that part of the city being about $50k per sq m I don't think that a $2b site would be used for a football stadium.
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Footballer
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In other words, some architecture firm in Sydney is looking for some free publicity, so it submitted an unsolicited concept-stadium in the middle of the city.
They government went MEH, and the online muppets went YEAH LETS DO THAT!
Bravo Sydney architecture firm. Bravo.
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fuzz13
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+xAbsolute buckley's chance of that. State Gov are only going to tout potential metro stops in places where a significant density uplift is possible, ie Waterloo. The next area to be re-developed in Sydney is the bays precinct around Glebe / Rozelle...government has plans for massive high density residential in that area by 2026. It'll basically be another Wentworth Point / Rhodes etc. Waterloo is tied in with the City & South West Metro anyway so that will come earlier. +xHaving spoken with someone from Transport previously about this, no chance. Metro is it. Even though i agree it would be by far the best option to get people into and out of the precinct. Metros are still stuck on roads, Trains by pass everyone and link quickly with other main services. Sydney Metro West will be a completely underground Mass Transit rail service...running from Westmead to the Eastern Side of the city. Having seen and worked on the planning the current plan is for the SMW to terminate at Zetland. Provision has been made in the master planning to allow extension of the rail in either direction, however with the way the metro terminates currently in Zetland there is no way the current alignment could be built to allow a station to be built within Moore Park itself, however it would be possible for a station to be built around the Entertainment Quarter entrance point, which is still a relatively short walk compared to central. Considering as well the current alignment of the Metro West runs through Parramatta Park basically alongside the new Western Sydney Stadium, the government has absolutely NFI on how to link the major sporting precincts in this state. A simple re-alignment of the proposed route could pick-up WSS, SFS, Leichhardt Oval and Concord Oval, along with SOP and basically you could have the whole of the major sports fields in Sydney linked by one train line.
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fuzz13
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+xBold plan to build new Sydney stadium suspended above Central stationArchitects reveal design for 45,000-seat stadium over rail yards, but proposal meets with tepid government response A new stadium for Sydney in the city centre and served by every major rail line, plus the chance to return Moore Park to parkland. It sounds like a utopian dream from an urban planner. But architecture firm Bates Smart has produced just such a concept, which they have pitched to the NSW government: a 45,000-seat stadium over the platforms and adjacent rail yards at Central station instead of a new stadium at the site of the current Allianz stadium in Moore Park. But despite the proposal’s merits it has been met with a tepid response from the New South Wales government. A government spokesperson said any unsolicited proposal needed “to be evaluated under the appropriate guidelines”. Bates Smart director Philip Vivian says the idea is entirely possible – a stadium is a relatively light structure, equivalent to a six-storey building. The firm has asked engineering company Arup about its concept and believes it is entirely feasible. “It would involve building a podium over the stations – it’s a matter of creating land – then the cost of the stadium on top would be the same, he said. The new stadium would be served directly by all of Sydney’s rail lines, buses and the light rail, while being close to dining precincts in Haymarket and Surry Hills. “It would create a piece of the city that heals a big scar in its fabric,” Vivian said of the concept of building over the vast expanse of rail lines in Sydney’s Central station area. “The Colosseum in Rome established the concept of the stadium as a public space embedded in the fabric of the city; a monumental piece of infrastructure for public spectacle. In modern times however, with the advent of the motor vehicle and the suburbs, stadiums became mono-functional objects, isolated on the periphery of the city and surrounded by car parking,” the Bates Smart brief says. “Today a renaissance is under way, with stadiums once again being integrated into the city fabric and acting as catalysts of urban renewal,” it says. But Bates Smart’s idea appears to have come too late to be given serious consideration by the NSW government. Even though the government only announced its $1.5bn final decision on redeveloping Sydney’s two stadiums in late March, the firm met with resistance when it pitched it in May. The government has already commenced a design competition for the $729m rebuild of Allianz stadium, which will be the first of the two Sydney stadiums to be redeveloped. The other is the ANZ stadium at Homebush, which was built for the 2000 Olympics. The government says it will be announcing the winner in a month and has plans to begin the project before the state election in March next year. However, the NSW government has been prepared to upend planning processes in the past, when it considered there were benefits to NSW. James Packer’s Crown Resorts convinced the O’Farrell government to entirely change the masterplan for Barangaroo six years into the massive project and move a public park away from the water’s edge in order to accommodate his casino on the water’s edge. The government justified accepting the unsolicited proposal by Packer because of the tourism benefits and jobs the casino would bring to Sydney. Vivian said a stadium at Central, rather than Moore Park would bring enormous benefits to the economy because the surrounding areas offered far more opportunities for visitors to spend money. “A stadium should not be an isolated element on the edge of a city or in a park. What people want to do is extend their experience and go out for a meal or to a bar afterwards. At Allianz they spill out into nowhere,” he said. “The NSW government often pays to get major events to Sydney but there’s nothing for tourists to spend their money on when they attend an event at Moore Park,” he said. He also said the location would provide a better backdrop to showcase Sydney in international broadcasts, which would in turn help promote Sydney as a destination. A stadium at Central would also allow Moore Park to be reclaimed as parkland and end the surrounding parkland being used as carparks when events were on. “The whole problem with Moore Park is that it’s based on the outmoded concept of the automobile being the main form of getting to a game,” Vivian said. Building a stadium at Central would also take the time pressure off the government’s plans and a potential blowout in costs as the old stadium at Moore Park could continue to operate until the new stadium is finished. The government currently hopes to begin demolition of Allianz by the end of the year and have it completed by March 2022. The stadium at Homebush, which is now to be refurbished rather than rebuilt at a cost of $850m, is due for completion in mid 2021. The Bates Smart idea will be up against some powerful potential opposition. Radio host Alan Jones and former News Corp managing director John Hartigan are on the board of the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust, which is chaired by former Transfield executive Tony Shepherd. The trust has been the driving force behind the redevelopment at Moore Park. Several reports have recommended the two stadiums be brought under common ownership and managed jointly rather than as rival venues. The Guardian
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I'm no Sydneysider but, assuming the financials stack up, surely this would be a logical place to plonk a new stadium? Solves 99% of the transport issues whilst providing a large boost to CBD businesses during events. Can any Sydney folk enlighten me as to the pros or cons to this project? What they should have done was bought the land the old Carlton & United Breweries was on in Chippendale 10-odd years ago and built a new-multi-purpose rectangular stadium on that site. There was sufficient land at the time and it was relatively close to the city and Central Station. Back then though the Labor government was in power and they really didn't do much for infrastructure in this state. There are massive issues with building over the Central Station precinct...too many to go in to details but suffice to say that there will still be a large number of graves buried under the train lines that they would rather not disturb atm.
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Lastbroadcast
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I spoke to someone in the know about the Central Stadium proposal. Apparently Sydney Trains vetoed it because the engineering challenges to build it are far too substantial (far more than the “advisors” realise), and it would also interfere with some of the work being done to upgrade central station right now. It’s not going to happen folks, a pipe dream.
Getting a train line to Moore park would be a better idea.
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sydneyfc1987
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+xIt sounds logical so it won't happen It's a fantastic idea but unfortunately its come far too late to be a realistic option.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Burztur
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Probably about 70 years too late...
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paladisious
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+xI spoke to someone in the know about the Central Stadium proposal. Apparently Sydney Trains vetoed it because the engineering challenges to build it are far too substantial (far more than the “advisors” realise), and it would also interfere with some of the work being done to upgrade central station right now. It’s not going to happen folks, a pipe dream. Getting a train line to Moore park would be a better idea. There's already light rail being built there, right? http://sydneylightrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/news/first-look-light-rail-moore-park
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Muz
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+xI spoke to someone in the know about the Central Stadium proposal. Apparently Sydney Trains vetoed it because the engineering challenges to build it are far too substantial (far more than the “advisors” realise), and it would also interfere with some of the work being done to upgrade central station right now. It’s not going to happen folks, a pipe dream. Getting a train line to Moore park would be a better idea. Meanwhile in Singapore they're not worried about difficult engineering challenges and just getting on with it. https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/dam/ltaweb/corp/PublicationsResearch/files/ReportNewsletter/Connect/Connect-2013-Feb_FA.pdfScroll to transport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_developments_in_SingaporeAll of these projects make that Sydney stadium idea look like a stroll in the park. Geez I wish Australia had some vision sometimes. I doubt the Opera House or the Snowy Hydro would ever get built if thrown up today as an idea.
Member since 2008.
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walnuts
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+x+xI spoke to someone in the know about the Central Stadium proposal. Apparently Sydney Trains vetoed it because the engineering challenges to build it are far too substantial (far more than the “advisors” realise), and it would also interfere with some of the work being done to upgrade central station right now. It’s not going to happen folks, a pipe dream. Getting a train line to Moore park would be a better idea. Meanwhile in Singapore they're not worried about difficult engineering challenges and just getting on with it. https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/dam/ltaweb/corp/PublicationsResearch/files/ReportNewsletter/Connect/Connect-2013-Feb_FA.pdfScroll to transport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_developments_in_SingaporeAll of these projects make that Sydney stadium idea look like a stroll in the park. Geez I wish Australia had some vision sometimes. I doubt the Opera House or the Snowy Hydro would ever get built if thrown up today as an idea. Governments at all levels seem incredibly risk averse in this country - just putting in the bare minimum effort rather than building things properly. It's like them building roads to handle 5 million people in Melbourne - uhhh, great, but we're already at 5 million people so why not build it for 10 million people now for a 10% budget rise rather than in 50 years (when it's already 30 years too late) for 300% the cost? Madness
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Muz
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+x+x+xI spoke to someone in the know about the Central Stadium proposal. Apparently Sydney Trains vetoed it because the engineering challenges to build it are far too substantial (far more than the “advisors” realise), and it would also interfere with some of the work being done to upgrade central station right now. It’s not going to happen folks, a pipe dream. Getting a train line to Moore park would be a better idea. Meanwhile in Singapore they're not worried about difficult engineering challenges and just getting on with it. https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/dam/ltaweb/corp/PublicationsResearch/files/ReportNewsletter/Connect/Connect-2013-Feb_FA.pdfScroll to transport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_developments_in_SingaporeAll of these projects make that Sydney stadium idea look like a stroll in the park. Geez I wish Australia had some vision sometimes. I doubt the Opera House or the Snowy Hydro would ever get built if thrown up today as an idea. Governments at all levels seem incredibly risk averse in this country - just putting in the bare minimum effort rather than building things properly. It's like them building roads to handle 5 million people in Melbourne - uhhh, great, but we're already at 5 million people so why not build it for 10 million people now for a 10% budget rise rather than in 50 years (when it's already 30 years too late) for 300% the cost? Madness I posted up some Singapore stuff because the complexity of tunneling above and below existing subway lines to put new ones in, whilst passing underneath literally hundreds of high-rise buildings, is nothing short of an amazing engineering feat.
Member since 2008.
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Kamaryn
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P&R will fix it 2.0
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Peter Fitzsimmons pointing out that there's no actual go ahead for demolishing Allianz yet plus deserved shit for SCG Trust invoking Hillsborough as justification https://www.smh.com.au/sport/invoking-hillsborough-for-stadium-rebuild-a-bridge-too-far-20180926-p5064d.html
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