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Decentric
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Last night I looked up Nathan Lyon's figures to discover he is a great!
He has something like 333 wickets in 81 Tests!
He is 25th in ranking number of Test wickets of all bowlers to play international cricket.
GOAT is 4th highest Aussie wicket taker after Warne, McGrath and Lillee, yet he has had such a low profile and media interest in comparison.
Lyon is the 7th top spinner of all time for all cricket nations.
GOAT isn't the only one.
tWhen I looked a stats, Sangakarra is in the top 10 batters of all time in run aggregates. He accumulated over 10 000 runs, with possibly the highest average of 58. Yet I've barely heard of him. Why? He has hardly played Test cricket in Australia.
Ditto his spinning teammate, Herath. Until the last series against Sri Lanka , I'd barely heard of him. Why? Herath is ahead of Lyon in international wicket taking ranks.
It may have been Baggers today, but he mentioned BJ Watling is also a pretty decent wicketkeeper/batter, boasting a batting average of 38. He is virtually unknown in Australia.
From what I've seen in New Zealand it is harder to score runs than here. Players like Richard Hadlee and Martin Crowe had huge profiles in Australia, but few Kiwi players have since. Yet Kane Williamson is currently ranked third in the world as a batter. Relatively, he has had a low profile too.
Thoughts?
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Paddles
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+xLast night I looked up Nathan Lyon's figures to discover he is a great! He has something like 333 wickets in 81 Tests! He is 25th in ranking number of Test wickets of all bowlers to play international cricket. GOAT is 4th highest Aussie wicket taker after Warne, McGrath and Lillee, yet he has had such a low profile and media interest in comparison. Lyon is the 7th top spinner of all time for all cricket nations. GOAT isn't the only one. When I looked stats, Sangakarra is in the top 10 batters of all time in run aggregates accumulation govern 10 000 runs, with possibly the highest average of 58. Yet I've barely heard of him. Why? He has hardly played Test cricket in Australia. Ditto his spinning teammate, Herath. Util the last series against Sri Lanka , I'd barely heard of him. Why? Herath is ahead of Lyon in international wicket taking ranks. It may have been Baggers today, but he mentioned BJ Watling is also a pretty decent wicketkeeper/batter, boasting a batting average of 38. He is virtually unknown in Australia. From what I've seen in New Zealand it is harder to score runs than here. Players like Richard Hadlee and Martin Crowe had huge profiles in Australia, but few Kiwi players since have. Yet Kane Williamson is currently ranked third in the world as a batter. Relatively, he has had a low profile too. Thoughts? Kane Williamson is currently ranked 2. In Aug 2014 -Martin Crowe announced to the world that Kohli, Smith, Root and Williamson would become the 4 best batsmen of this generation. He called them the fab 4. And he was right.... I can link you the article - what makes it impressive is that only Root was averaging huge at the time... Sanga averages over 60 as a specialist batsman and is very highly rated internationally. One of the best I ever saw play - but he suffered for not playing for a Big 3 team. Ditto KW... Herath is okay - but needed Asian conditions... Murali's shadow looms large... Lyon averages over 30 (career, India, SL and UAE) - he is a modern great - but he's not going down as a great till he remedies this. More countries host test matches than just Australia - I blame FTA ch 9.
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Decentric
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Jacques Kallis has amazing stats, but has rarely been considered a great until very late in his career in Australia. I think he is 3rd, behind Tendulkar and Ponting, as greatest run scorers of all time.
As a batter Kallis had a very slow strike rate in Tests of something like 38. Whereas Pointing had something like a SR of 60.
The difference late in their respective careers, was Ponting started fading quickly much earlier in age than Kallis and his average dropped markedly from circa 60 to 52.
On the other hand, Kallis retired still close to an average of 58!
Moreover, Kallis was a really handy fast medium bowler for nearly all of his career. In terms of being good for a long period of his career, and as an all rounder, Kallis may be the best cricketer ever. Yet we hear little about him in Australia.
We've been far more taken with express bowlers Dale Steyn and Alan Donald from South Africa.
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Paddles
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+xJacques Kallis is has amazing stats, but has rarely been considered a great until very late in his career in Australia. I think he is 3rd, behind Tendulkar and Ponting as greatest run scorers of all time. As a batter Kallis had a very slow strike rate in Tests of something like 38. Whereas Pointing had something like a SR of 60. The difference late in their respective careers, was Ponting started fading quickly much earlier in age than Kallis and his average dropped markedly from circa 60 to 52. On the other hand, Kallis retired still close to an average of 58! Moreover, Kallis was a really handy fast medium bowler for nearly all of his career. In terms of being good for a long period of his career, and as an all rounder, Kallis may be the best cricketer ever. Yet we hear little about him in Australia. We've been far more taken with express bowlers Dale Steyn and Alan Donald from South Africa. Kallis was the worst to watch of Sachin, Punter, Sanga, Lara... he was dour and an accumulator. He makes a lot ATG teams regardless for the all-rounder aspect. Steyn is an ATG. Absilutely.
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Paddles
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Decentric
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Another Kiwi who had a big profile in Australia was Chris Cairns.
I think it was a lot to do with his big hitting in LOC.
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Decentric
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Another of these annoying Murdoch media outlets charging money for anything. What was the paraphrased content of it, Paddles?
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Paddles
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| IND | 920 | | NZ | 913 | | AUS | 901 | | IND | 846 | | ENG | 807 | | AUS | 795 | | SL | 753 | | SA | 724 | | NZ | 709 | | PAK | 708 |
As promised - the fab 4 article: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/774705.html
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Decentric
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Good article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it.
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Paddles
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+xAnother of these annoying Murdoch media outlets charging money for anything. What was the paraphrased content of it, Paddles? That Tim Paine never promised to be a choirboy - I just want to read the article. I find Craddock's reporting this test match quite interesting...
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Paddles
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+xGood article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it. I get a lot of Aus media in NZ - almost all your fox TV content - Aus media is useless at reporting the global game. They pretty much only focus on what's happening in Australia... If you read cricinfo for the wider regions and series including their online magazine- you will get a much broader view on whats going on in the cricket world...
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Decentric
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+x+xGood article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it. I get a lot of Aus media in NZ - almost all your fox content - Aus media is useless at reporting the global game. They pretty much only focus on what's happening in Australia... If you read cricinfo for the wider regions and series including their online magazine- you will get a much broader view on whats going on in the cricket world... I see quite a lot of Test cricket played on Fox between other countries. NZ is a bit early being two hours ahead of EST.
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Paddles
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+x+x+xGood article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it. I get a lot of Aus media in NZ - almost all your fox content - Aus media is useless at reporting the global game. They pretty much only focus on what's happening in Australia... If you read cricinfo for the wider regions and series including their online magazine- you will get a much broader view on whats going on in the cricket world... I see quite a lot of Test cricket played on Fox between other countries. NZ is a bit early being two hours ahead of EST. We have nothing worth watching summer but some ODI games vs India. We're literally going to thrash SL and Bangladesh in the most boring one-sioded contests you could imagine. It is going to be road cricket at its worst as their bowlers just are not upto it... Next year we have England and India... I suspect NZC will lose in Aus - and then hopefully take down England and India in a great series of matches... Pakistan in SA this Xmas could be well worth a watch... Pakistan is arguably on the way up with Babar Azam and Abbas and Safrica on the way down with no batting.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+xGood article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it. I get a lot of Aus media in NZ - almost all your fox content - Aus media is useless at reporting the global game. They pretty much only focus on what's happening in Australia... If you read cricinfo for the wider regions and series including their online magazine- you will get a much broader view on whats going on in the cricket world... I see quite a lot of Test cricket played on Fox between other countries. NZ is a bit early being two hours ahead of EST. I suspect NZC will lose in Aus -... I'm not so sure. Last time NZ were here, we had a stronger team then the present one, and Aus only just won! There was a key decision in Adelaide that was critical in the outcome. Unlike many Aussies who berate NZ, I'm widely travelled and have visited the North Island twice. We intend to visit the South Island next time. All my friends and relatives, including me, who have visited think NZ is a fabulous country.
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Paddles
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+x+x+x+x+xGood article, Paddles. Thanks for posting it. I get a lot of Aus media in NZ - almost all your fox content - Aus media is useless at reporting the global game. They pretty much only focus on what's happening in Australia... If you read cricinfo for the wider regions and series including their online magazine- you will get a much broader view on whats going on in the cricket world... I see quite a lot of Test cricket played on Fox between other countries. NZ is a bit early being two hours ahead of EST. I suspect NZC will lose in Aus -... I'm not so sure. Last time NZ were here, we had a stronger team then the present one, and Aus only just won! There was a key decision in Adelaide that was critical in the outcome. Unlike many Aussies who berate NZ, I'm widely travelled and have visited the North Island twice. We intend to visit the South Island next time. All my friends and relatives, including me, who have visited think NZ is a fabulous country. Oh - I just don't think NZ has the bowlers to take down Aus in Aus unless there's swing on offer (like Adelaide did at night). Wagner will be key, but besides that - Boult and Southee will struggle. Taylor will be much older - so KW will be leadingg a lone hand again - Latham is a minnow basher... I just see NZC struggling to put it all together. I think Engl will take the Ashes in Eng, whereas I think NZL will beat Eng in Eng next :P It has nothing to do with the countires, its the pitch conditons... Definitely visit Queenstown - in winter if you like snow...
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BaggyGreens
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+xAnother of these annoying Murdoch media outlets charging money for anything. What was the paraphrased content of it, Paddles? I read that Crash piece too. 10 innings for five fifties and a special 192 in 2007 @60.33 is Sanga's Oz record DC.
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Paddles
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+x+xAnother of these annoying Murdoch media outlets charging money for anything. What was the paraphrased content of it, Paddles? I read that Crash piece too. 10 innings for five fifties and a special 192 in 2007 @60.33 is Sanghas Oz record DC. Would you please cut and paste it... I am interested in his choir boy piece and the piece from the day before on the sledging...
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BaggyGreens
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Hazlewood says he rates Pujara a steelier batsman than Kohli. He would know having bowled plenty of balls to both batsmen this series. What's more I tend to agree. Their Oz records are good but flattered by the roads we dished up on their last tour here four years ago. Both have the one century this tour but for mine Pujara's was the classier and more vital of the two. There are no details of their performances against Pakistan in UAE. | Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 5 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 123 | 423 | 42.30 |
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| India | 36 | 58 | 6 | 10 | 14 | 1 | 206* | 3217 | 61.87 |
Kohli Oz record: |
| Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 10 | 20 | 0 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 169 | 1169 | 58.45 |
| India | 34 | 54 | 6 | 11 | 10 | 2 | 243 | 3105 | 64.69 |
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Paddles
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+xWas it Hazlewood that rates Pujara a steelier batsman than Kohli. He would know having bowled plenty of balls to both batsmen this series. What's more I tend to agree. Take a squizz at Kohlis record..some 70% of his runs have been scored on flat Asia sub continent decks. His Oz record is good as is Pujaras who also has excelled on his own decks. Kohli has 6 tons to Pujara's sole one. But remember last tour Kohli flourished on our roads. Pujara Oz record. | Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 5 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 123 | 423 | 42.30 |
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| India | 36 | 58 | 6 | 10 | 14 | 1 | 206* | 3217 | 61.87 |
Kohli Oz record: |
| Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 10 | 20 | 0 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 169 | 1169 | 58.45 |
| India | 34 | 54 | 6 | 11 | 10 | 2 | 243 | 3105 | 64.69 |
Kohli isn't rated for his runs on flat sub tracks or raging dustbowls. Its the runs he has taken in Aus, NZ, Eng and SA as well as Asia... There's really little point in even trying to deny that is an extreme batting talent of the highest order... Pujara is much more of a home town bully... He needs more runs in Eng and SA...
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+xAnother of these annoying Murdoch media outlets charging money for anything. What was the paraphrased content of it, Paddles? I read that Crash piece too. 10 innings for five fifties and a special 192 in 2007 @60.33 is Sanghas Oz record DC. Would you please cut and paste it... I am interested in his choir boy piece and the piece from the day before on the sledging... Was in the Tele. Have to pay for it online.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+xWas it Hazlewood that rates Pujara a steelier batsman than Kohli. He would know having bowled plenty of balls to both batsmen this series. What's more I tend to agree. Take a squizz at Kohlis record..some 70% of his runs have been scored on flat Asia sub continent decks. His Oz record is good as is Pujaras who also has excelled on his own decks. Kohli has 6 tons to Pujara's sole one. But remember last tour Kohli flourished on our roads. Pujara Oz record. | Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 5 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 123 | 423 | 42.30 |
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| India | 36 | 58 | 6 | 10 | 14 | 1 | 206* | 3217 | 61.87 |
Kohli Oz record: |
| Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 10 | 20 | 0 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 169 | 1169 | 58.45 |
| India | 34 | 54 | 6 | 11 | 10 | 2 | 243 | 3105 | 64.69 |
Kohli isn't rated for his runs on flat sub tracks or raging dustbowls. Its the runs he has taken in Aus, NZ, Eng and SA as well as Asia... There's really little point in even trying to deny that is an extreme batting talent of the highest order... Pujara is much more of a home town bully... He needs more runs in Eng and SA... Like I said other than the century this match which was very good but lucky.. he dined out on roads last tour to the tune of his other Oz tons. I saw some of his England performances last year and in the main India batted on decks similar to here as they were in the middle of a rare heatwave in the UK. The tracks were dry and batting friendly and suited spin over pace for most of the series according to the Pom coms.. I have not seen him batting in SA or NZ.
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Paddles
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+x+x+xWas it Hazlewood that rates Pujara a steelier batsman than Kohli. He would know having bowled plenty of balls to both batsmen this series. What's more I tend to agree. Take a squizz at Kohlis record..some 70% of his runs have been scored on flat Asia sub continent decks. His Oz record is good as is Pujaras who also has excelled on his own decks. Kohli has 6 tons to Pujara's sole one. But remember last tour Kohli flourished on our roads. Pujara Oz record. | Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 5 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 123 | 423 | 42.30 |
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| India | 36 | 58 | 6 | 10 | 14 | 1 | 206* | 3217 | 61.87 |
Kohli Oz record: |
| Country | Mat | Inns | NO | 100s | 50s | 0s | HS | Runs | Avg | S/R | Ca | St | | Australia | 10 | 20 | 0 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 169 | 1169 | 58.45 |
| India | 34 | 54 | 6 | 11 | 10 | 2 | 243 | 3105 | 64.69 |
Kohli isn't rated for his runs on flat sub tracks or raging dustbowls. Its the runs he has taken in Aus, NZ, Eng and SA as well as Asia... There's really little point in even trying to deny that is an extreme batting talent of the highest order... Pujara is much more of a home town bully... He needs more runs in Eng and SA... Like I said other than the century this match which was very good but lucky.. he dined out on the roads last tour to the tune of his other five Oz tons. I saw some of his England performances last year and in the main India batted on decks similar to here as they were in the middle of a rare heatwave in the UK. The tracks were dry and batting friendly for most of the series according to the Pom coms.. I have not seen him batting in SA or NZ. Dude - you're talking utter nonsense about this heat wave making for easy batting conditions again. That's utter rubbish... the games were shootouts inside 4 day contests.... No other batsman from either team scored runs. What you're saying is absolute nonsense.... I watched the games - there were no easy batting conditions, when the heat wave took effect - there was spin - only the last test of 5 had easy batting conditions and it turned. Kohli failed in that test - and Cook made a dbl century... after retiring... | 1 | Virat Kohli | India | 10 | 593 | 59.30 | 57.85 | 67 | 1 | | 2 | Jos Buttler | England | 9 | 349 | 38.78 | 67.77 | 44 | 4 | | 3 | Alastair Cook | England | 9 | 327 | 36.33 | 45.54 | 39 | - | | 4 | Joe Root | England | 9 | 319 | 35.44 | 52.47 | 34 | 1 | | 5 | Lokesh Rahul | India | 10 | 299 | 29.90 | 66.44 | 44 | 1 | | 6 | Cheteshwar Pujara | India | 8 | 278 | 39.71 | 38.29 | 33 | - | | 7 | Sam Curran | England | 7 | 272 | 38.86 | 62.39 | 32 | 5 | | 8 | Ajinkya Rahane | India | 10 | 257 | 25.70 | 40.22 | 27 | - | | 9 | Jonny Bairstow | England | 9 | 230 | 25.56 | 63.54 | 32 | - | | 10 | Ben Stokes | England | 8 | 200 | 25.00 | 38.54 | 22 | 1 | | 11 | Hardik Pandya | India | 8 | 164 | 23.43 | 56.94 | 26 | 1 | | 12 | Keaton Jennings | England | 9 | 163 | 18.11 | 40.25 | 18 | - | | 13 | Shikhar Dhawan | India | 8 | 162 | 20.25 | 55.48 | 23 | - | | 14 | Rishabh Pant | India | 6 | 162 | 27.00 | 64.29 | 20 | 6 |
Dude - I really don't the Aus fan obsession with how someone went in Aus... Aus has not won in India since 2004. Not won in Eng since 2001. Got smashed back to back in Pakistan and then smashed Sri Lanka... Lost at home three times in a row to Safrica... How someone goes in Australia maybe used to matter in the McGrath and Warne era... but its really not a big deal now...
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Paddles
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Does this seriously look like easy batting conditions to you? SeriesMatch Type 0" class=""> Top 20| POS | PLAYER | CURRENT TEAM | MATCH | INNS | ECO | AVG | SR |
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| 1 | James Anderson | England | 5 | 10 | 2.37 | 18.12 | 45.92 | | 2 | Ravichandran Ashwin | India | 4 | 7 | 2.58 | 32.73 | 76.18 | | 3 | Jasprit Bumrah | India | 3 | 6 | 2.72 | 25.93 | 57.14 | | 4 | Chris Woakes | England | 2 | 4 | 2.88 | 20.88 | 43.50 | | 5 | Ishant Sharma | India | 5 | 9 | 2.89 | 24.28 | 50.33 | | 6 | Stuart Broad | England | 5 | 10 | 3.13 | 29.69 | 56.94 | | 7 | Umesh Yadav | India | 1 | 2 | 3.17 | 25.33 | 48.00 | | 8 | Moeen Ali | England | 2 | 4 | 3.32 | 21.00 | 38.00 | | 9 | Sam Curran | England | 4 | 8 | 3.33 | 23.55 | 42.36 | | 10 | Ravindra Jadeja | India | 1 | 2 | 3.35 | 36.86 | 66.00 | | 11 | Ben Stokes | England | 4 | 8 | 3.51 | 29.14 | 49.86 | | 12 | Adil Rashid | England | 5 | 8 | 3.55 | 30.90 | 52.20 | | 13 | Mohammed Shami | India | 5 | 9 | 3.60 | 38.88 | 64.75 | | 14 | Hanuma Vihari | India | 1 | 2 | 3.62 | 12.67 | 21.00 | | 15 | Hardik Pandya | India | 4 | 6 | 3.85 | 24.70 | 38.50 |
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Paddles
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Lastbroadcast
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Decentric, I'm surprised you didn't see Sangakkara's greatest ever test innings, considering he played it in Hobart. Check out some of this hitting (especially from the 6min mark onwards): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aO3BLDDIFA
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Decentric
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I could have been away.
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Test_Fan
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+xLast night I looked up Nathan Lyon's figures to discover he is a great! He has something like 333 wickets in 81 Tests! He is 25th in ranking number of Test wickets of all bowlers to play international cricket. GOAT is 4th highest Aussie wicket taker after Warne, McGrath and Lillee, yet he has had such a low profile and media interest in comparison. Lyon is the 7th top spinner of all time for all cricket nations. GOAT isn't the only one. tWhen I looked a stats, Sangakarra is in the top 10 batters of all time in run aggregates. He accumulated over 10 000 runs, with possibly the highest average of 58. Yet I've barely heard of him. Why? He has hardly played Test cricket in Australia. Ditto his spinning teammate, Herath. Until the last series against Sri Lanka , I'd barely heard of him. Why? Herath is ahead of Lyon in international wicket taking ranks. It may have been Baggers today, but he mentioned BJ Watling is also a pretty decent wicketkeeper/batter, boasting a batting average of 38. He is virtually unknown in Australia. From what I've seen in New Zealand it is harder to score runs than here. Players like Richard Hadlee and Martin Crowe had huge profiles in Australia, but few Kiwi players have since. Yet Kane Williamson is currently ranked third in the world as a batter. Relatively, he has had a low profile too. Thoughts? Hmmmm. I am not sure how you can be a serious cricket follower and not know quite a bit all of the names mentioned.
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Test_Fan
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+xAnother Kiwi who had a big profile in Australia was Chris Cairns. I think it was a lot to do with his big hitting in LOC. Chris Cairns was the son of, so he got a bit of attention because of that. He was actually a very good cricketer at his best and his overall test figures, while not brilliant are quite reasonable. 218 wickets at 29.4 and a batting average of 33.53, but he probably wasted his talent to certain extent. He was too much of all or nothing with the bat. I could not give a shit about his LOC record.
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MikeR
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I must have missed this. Heat wave in England is considered consecutive days pushing 30 degrees. In Qld I consider this a warm winter. Somehow I don't think those temps would have benefited India.
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MikeR
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Over the last 10 years media has become dictated by trends on social media, eg when you go to a cricket site esp in Australia, they have a list of most searched players. With 35% of Australians, of course the most popular "trends" will be NSW based. Afterall no average NSW person would be interested in a state game between SA and Tas. Just like an average Qlder, Tasmanian, South Australian is not interested in NSW, but they have smaller population so they don't make a mark on these trends. The media jump on these trends and promote players, it is not performance based anymore. Of course Selectors read the media, and are more likely to promote these individuals because to go against the media is committing suicide.
eg Cummins, people on this site are already questioning that his best days are behind him.
But if you look at his FC career without tests, it reads 12 matches 40/1095 av 27.4 SR 56. Personally I feel we are just seeing the balancing out of his overall stats the more games he plays. My question is how does a player with those comparatively poor FC stats compared to others in shield get promoted in the first place. But now he is "the face" of cricket getting the advertising roles etc. It gets him a high profile but it doesn't make him a great cricketer.
The only time overseas players get any attention in Australia is when they tour, and unless people have Fox and an interest in two overseas teams competing they have no idea how truly talented players like Kohli, Sangakkara, Williamson etc are, unless they are continually breaking records. An Australian tour is once every 4 years and is a blip on the radar for most of these players, and makes minimal impact on their overall performances. It does piss me off when people say "yeah, but how did they go in Australia" because that just promotes arrogance which I can assure you is not a typical Australian trait.
When you look at Kohli his average is 65 in India and 58 in Australia. Not much of a discrepancy.
When you look at Steve Smith his average is 60 in India and 77 in Australia, more of a discrepancy but still excellent
But look at the previous high profile David Warner. 60 average in Australia, 24 in India. His overall away average is 37. But try telling the average cricket follower in Australia he is garbage, David would not make an India side because half their games are played in India. But Indian supporters still respect Warner and pay him big bucks to play there. Australians don't reciprocate this respect to overseas talent.
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