Yes - the cap should stay it keeps the league fair
No - time to let clubs manage there own finances
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sub007
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+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all This. Plus Perth are favourites to win this year so there could be 6 champions in 8 years. It shows that anyone can win if they get their recruitment right.
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sub007
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+x+x+x+x+x+xkeep the cap but double it to $6 million. scrap all the other loopholes except for one marquee spot. but this marquee spot can only be used to bring in a big fish marquee like a Del Piero or Honda type. The problem with doubling it is that most clubs would go bust under the current salary cap rules there is a floor to the cap i think it is at 'least 80%' (or something like that) of the cap max needs to be spent on the squad. You would have to scrap the cap floor otherwise most sides would go bust ie CCM would be gone in 1 season For me i'd be rid of it we dont need it anymore perhaps when the league started it served a purpose but now it just promotes mediocrity where shit players get paid to much and good players leave the league because they get to little and we have this broke marquee system Most people want the cap floor gone. The shit players are close to minimum wage. The best players are always going to go to a better league which is a good thing as they get exposed to a higher level of competition. The floor is just min wage. Everything else can be whatever the clubs are willing to pay. The salary cap floor is where clubs have to spend a minimum of 90% of the cap. My understanding of it is that it doesn't have anything to do with individual wages. isnt there a lock on squad numbers? if that is the case then it certainly does? Teams are allowed 20-23 players in their squads. Marquees and junior marquee are outside the squad as well as the mature aged rookie and scholarship players. All of these players wages are outside the cap. However their is a minimum wage, just like any other occupation.
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sub007
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+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest.
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sub007
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+x+x+x+x@sub007 - I get what you mean now with the cap floor. What I mean is the floor should simply be squad size x min wage as a base protection for the players. That should be the min spend for a club and not 90% of some number determined by the FFA. A minimum wage for adult players and a minimum senior squad size would have the same effect as a salary floor. This is basically what I mean when there is a floor. You can't have nothing otherwise a club would just field part timers. but see i dont see a problem with a team fielding 'part timers' we dont have enough support to have 28 teams 14 in div 1 and 14 in div 2 some of those clubs will have to have significantly lower wage bills then others but it also gives players more of a chance to play due to increase number of clubs. We need more professional clubs not more semi-pro clubs. Plus having a nationwide semi-pro comp would be difficult given the players would have day jobs and would have to miss at least a day off work each week when they play away.
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Burztur
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+x+x+x+x@sub007 - I get what you mean now with the cap floor. What I mean is the floor should simply be squad size x min wage as a base protection for the players. That should be the min spend for a club and not 90% of some number determined by the FFA. A minimum wage for adult players and a minimum senior squad size would have the same effect as a salary floor. This is basically what I mean when there is a floor. You can't have nothing otherwise a club would just field part timers. but see i dont see a problem with a team fielding 'part timers' we dont have enough support to have 28 teams 14 in div 1 and 14 in div 2 some of those clubs will have to have significantly lower wage bills then others but it also gives players more of a chance to play due to increase number of clubs. Don't know about Div 2, but the top tier should definitely aim to be fully professional. It would be concerning if a club can't afford ~1.5m in player wages for a squad of 23.
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sethman75
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Get rid of it.
Communism is failure in any shape or form.
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TheSelectFew
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+xScrap the cap and all the other A-Leagueisms. They aren't helping anything, they are holding the game back. So many to get rid of.
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RyanM
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+x Simple question would you keep the salary cap? and why?
Me personally I hate the salary cap I understand why it exists but I think it is killing the HAL and is probably the biggest reason the league has stopped improving (possibly only 2 nd to a lack of promotion/relegation). If it was me I’d let the cream rise to the top because all the best leagues in the world are dominated by a few big clubs and us trying to be different is clearly not working. Seems to me the league this year is the highest quality it's ever been.
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Feed_The_Brox
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some people have made some astute observations. the salary cap floor is as much of an issue (if not more) than the cap itself. if you double the cap (as per my suggestion), then the floor has to go, or at least be dropped to no higher than 50%.
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D_manu
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My heart wants the salary cap gone, and believes clubs could grow astute enough to remain competitive and work for a profit without compromise. Internal Transfer fees would have to be brought in to make it fair across the board so clubs can benefit of their now running academies, along with good fair compensation guidelines to properly compensate youngsters being poached before being contracted.
But my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following.
- Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market.
- Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players.
- Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles.
If we were to continue with a cap, i would lower the ceiling to 80% whilst also taking on a 4+1 rule (during the expansion and possible 2nd division phases we will need the extra foreigner, the 3+1 is still a while away for us IMO) . I would also give clubs 4 spots outside the cap for whatever they please but 1 has to be an asian spot outside the cap. Lets get serious about asia.
On top of this i would abolish the current contract / salary termination rules and allow clubs to pay out players without affecting their cap should they be willing to take that avenue.
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aok
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+xMy heart wants the salary cap gone, and believes clubs could grow astute enough to remain competitive and work for a profit without compromise. Internal Transfer fees would have to be brought in to make it fair across the board so clubs can benefit of their now running academies, along with good fair compensation guidelines to properly compensate youngsters being poached before being contracted. But my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. If we were to continue with a cap, i would lower the ceiling to 80% whilst also taking on a 4+1 rule (during the expansion and possible 2nd division phases we will need the extra foreigner, the 3+1 is still a while away for us IMO) . I would also give clubs 4 spots outside the cap for whatever they please but 1 has to be an asian spot outside the cap. Lets get serious about asia. On top of this i would abolish the current contract / salary termination rules and allow clubs to pay out players without affecting their cap should they be willing to take that avenue. Well thought out post. Pretty hard to disagree with anything other than the 80% ceiling. I would look at an increase of 20%
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bluebird
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+xBut my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. Any professional football model has its risks, whether we have a salary cap or dont have one. I dont see why it needs to be "Salary Cap unless no Salary Cap is risk free and perfect" The Salary Cap has not and can not make 10 very different clubs financially viable The Salary Cap has not and can not balance a single season The Salary Cap has not and can not stop clubs from hoarding youth (like Heart did) and shipping them overseas for a profit The Salary Cap has not and can not stop inflated wages because unlike the AFL / NRL, wages in our league are driven by a global market The whole point of a salary cap is to regulate player payments in a local market so that money isnt the deciding factor in determining how players are distributed. Thats the only purpose it serves. It has failed because it is impossible to implement in our game So why keep this tool that doesnt serve a single purpose and rationalise / imagine the benefits until we can prove that the alternative is 100% risk free? The smartest way forward is to remove the salary cap, knowing we have a 3+1 rule to prevent teams from buying the league, and then react to any real problems that arise (instead of the hysterical speculative ones)
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WC1day
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The cap is a necessary evil. Basically every club has gone broke and been bailed out multiple times by FFA (yes I know except MV :) ) The temptation to buy success is just too great and there is the small matter of paying the bills...
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Burztur
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+xBut my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following.
- Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market.
- Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players.
- Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles.
On your points: 1. The Clubs have just as strong if not more of a bargaining position that the Players. The Clubs would be in a better position to know their own financial position and if they can't afford something, they would not be pressured into buying. 2. I don't think a stockpiling issue would arise - at least not a major one. Most players would want to earn a wage and play, not sit on the bench. 3. Wage inflation is already an existing issue. The salary cap is actually forcing teams to break up every few years as well.
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Davstar
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+x+x Simple question would you keep the salary cap? and why?
Me personally I hate the salary cap I understand why it exists but I think it is killing the HAL and is probably the biggest reason the league has stopped improving (possibly only 2 nd to a lack of promotion/relegation). If it was me I’d let the cream rise to the top because all the best leagues in the world are dominated by a few big clubs and us trying to be different is clearly not working. Seems to me the league this year is the highest quality it's ever been. what you smoking bloke im a Victory fan and ill tell you the league hit its highs when Roar had Ange (with Berisha leading the line in his prime) and WSW won the ACL i'd actually say this is probably one of the poorer seasons we have had in recent years the lack of youth (Australian youth not Nz) is a testament to the league having an average season you still got players like Matt Simon getting a run... If anything i'd say this is one of the poorer season and Victory are sitting second with there marquee out for at least another 3 weeks
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Davstar
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+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Davstar
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+x+xMy heart wants the salary cap gone, and believes clubs could grow astute enough to remain competitive and work for a profit without compromise. Internal Transfer fees would have to be brought in to make it fair across the board so clubs can benefit of their now running academies, along with good fair compensation guidelines to properly compensate youngsters being poached before being contracted. But my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. If we were to continue with a cap, i would lower the ceiling to 80% whilst also taking on a 4+1 rule (during the expansion and possible 2nd division phases we will need the extra foreigner, the 3+1 is still a while away for us IMO) . I would also give clubs 4 spots outside the cap for whatever they please but 1 has to be an asian spot outside the cap. Lets get serious about asia. On top of this i would abolish the current contract / salary termination rules and allow clubs to pay out players without affecting their cap should they be willing to take that avenue. Well thought out post. Pretty hard to disagree with anything other than the 80% ceiling. I would look at an increase of 20% yeah it is a fair enough post im very much against the cap but if it was to be kept it would need to be adjusted to make the league competitive with other leagues in asia
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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D_manu
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+x+xBut my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. Any professional football model has its risks, whether we have a salary cap or dont have one. I dont see why it needs to be "Salary Cap unless no Salary Cap is risk free and perfect" The Salary Cap has not and can not make 10 very different clubs financially viable The Salary Cap has not and can not balance a single season The Salary Cap has not and can not stop clubs from hoarding youth (like Heart did) and shipping them overseas for a profit The Salary Cap has not and can not stop inflated wages because unlike the AFL / NRL, wages in our league are driven by a global market The whole point of a salary cap is to regulate player payments in a local market so that money isnt the deciding factor in determining how players are distributed. Thats the only purpose it serves. It has failed because it is impossible to implement in our game So why keep this tool that doesnt serve a single purpose and rationalise / imagine the benefits until we can prove that the alternative is 100% risk free? The smartest way forward is to remove the salary cap, knowing we have a 3+1 rule to prevent teams from buying the league, and then react to any real problems that arise (instead of the hysterical speculative ones) I don't necessarily disagree. And i certainly don't believe the current model is good either, it has a fair few tweaks to be made as i stated. But i am interested in exactly how no salary cap can make 10 different clubs financially viable? Also City is the only club that currently has "youth hoarding" ability due to their completely unique set up. Where as more cashed up clubs would all be able to hoard in a salary cap-less league with the huge wages. That was my "hypothetical" point with that. And there isn't really a "global" or "universal" market on wages or value in the world. It is all dependent on stance, demand, where that demand is and that windows inflation. If the premierleague or any of the big euro clubs want you your potentially going from say being a top earner in your league on $850k to quadrupling that instantly, and Every market has its own thing because at the end of the day, 90% of local talent is going to come through locally in its own bubble. For example a semi comparable league in the Dutch has an average wage of around $280k euros. Most clubs hover around $200k whereas the big fish average much more. Sides like Ajax only recently ran them selves into big trouble and have there own "internal" cap. Scotland also, Celtic average wage is 800K whilst the rest languish around 150k.
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D_manu
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+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Your whole point is solved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument.
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Davstar
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+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with the salary cap we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that is 26 million (that is just squad costs) so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad min wage to field a team and some clubs can afford to pay all starting players big money ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model soon as the FFA realise that the best 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights, medical team, marketing etc and it is probably over 110 million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting it would also result in a better transfer market for Australian players. Team could sell players overseas for millions opposed to letting players go for small transfer fees the game would be in a much better place. you need to think big to make the league big the salary cap has already seen 3 clubs fold with nix likely to be the 4th club to go under...
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Bullion
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+x+xBut my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. Any professional football model has its risks, whether we have a salary cap or dont have one. I dont see why it needs to be "Salary Cap unless no Salary Cap is risk free and perfect" The Salary Cap has not and can not make 10 very different clubs financially viable The Salary Cap has not and can not balance a single season The Salary Cap has not and can not stop clubs from hoarding youth (like Heart did) and shipping them overseas for a profit The Salary Cap has not and can not stop inflated wages because unlike the AFL / NRL, wages in our league are driven by a global market The whole point of a salary cap is to regulate player payments in a local market so that money isnt the deciding factor in determining how players are distributed. Thats the only purpose it serves. It has failed because it is impossible to implement in our game So why keep this tool that doesnt serve a single purpose and rationalise / imagine the benefits until we can prove that the alternative is 100% risk free? The smartest way forward is to remove the salary cap, knowing we have a 3+1 rule to prevent teams from buying the league, and then react to any real problems that arise (instead of the hysterical speculative ones) It can inflate wages because there are restrictions based on the nationality of players. If you remove all restrictions then it will more align with salaries around the world.
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D_manu
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+x+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with a salary caps we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that 26 million so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad almost all players min wage and some clubs can afford to pay all players half a million ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights etc and it is probably over 100million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting So the resolution is to get rid of the salary cap, have half the league as sacrificial lambs paying a whole squad min wage. All to make the league more exciting and competitive in the aus and asian market? eeek. Somehow i don't agree with that.
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D_manu
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with the salary cap we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that is 26 million (that is just squad costs) so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad min wage to field a team and some clubs can afford to pay all starting players big money ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model soon as the FFA realise that the best 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights, medical team, marketing etc and it is probably over 110 million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting it would also result in a better transfer market for Australian players. Team could sell players overseas for millions opposed to letting players go for small transfer fees the game would be in a much better place. you need to think big to make the league big the salary cap has already seen 3 clubs fold with nix likely to be the 4th club to go under... But thats just it, the model definitely needs to change. But does the Salary Cap have to be removed completely??
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with a salary caps we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that 26 million so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad almost all players min wage and some clubs can afford to pay all players half a million ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights etc and it is probably over 100million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting So the resolution is to get rid of the salary cap, have half the league as sacrificial lambs paying a whole squad min wage. All to make the league more exciting and competitive in the aus and asian market? eeek. Somehow i don't agree with that. Well, if half the league is on min wage, then at least those 5 teams will be playing competitive against one another :) Do you think fans of the clubs will be happy paying min wage for a squad year on year? The demands to be competitive would mean clubs would spend more on players.
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league "the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong" - They are and I said that's the case. Fulham and Huddersfield have bigger fanbases than A-League sides so of course they are going to have ok crowds. However, being a fan of an EPL club outside the top 6 is boring unless you support a newly promoted club as the highest you can finish is 7th and as a result, teams stagnate because they can't finish any higher and get relegated like Stoke or West Brom for example. Your WSW point is dumb because everyone knows the real reason fans aren't turning up is because they are playing away from Parramatta and fans are having issues with the Police, Stadium management, etc. Their crowds aren't suddenly going to jump because they could go down. Look at Sunderland and Villa. Their crowds dropped. Those are only two examples. Aston Villa 2014-15 attendance: 34,133. Aston Villa 2015-16 attendance: 33,690 (Year they went down) Sunderland 2015-16 attendance: 43,071Sunderland 2016-17 attendance: 41,287 (Year they went down) I suggest you look at facts rather than call your opinions facts.
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Davstar
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with a salary caps we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that 26 million so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad almost all players min wage and some clubs can afford to pay all players half a million ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights etc and it is probably over 100million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting So the resolution is to get rid of the salary cap, have half the league as sacrificial lambs paying a whole squad min wage. All to make the league more exciting and competitive in the aus and asian market? eeek. Somehow i don't agree with that. Well, if half the league is on min wage, then at least those 5 teams will be playing competitive against one another :) Do you think fans of the clubs will be happy paying min wage for a squad year on year? The demands to be competitive would mean clubs would spend more on players. CCM fans have been doing it for years that have been spending the min cap requirements and have not been a competitive team for 3 seasons...Nix are guilty of this too but this season that have uncovered a few top young players The fact is without pro/rel there is no consequence at least if we removed the cap floated another 10-12 teams for a 2nd division and see how ti goes...
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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D_manu
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 303,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x“well it failed anyway because sydney fc and melbourne victory are winning title most of the titles so just scrap it”In the last 7 years there’s been 5 different champions. In the last 8 years SFC have been champions once Sounds like the cap is equalising things after all I'd say the cap has made the competition fairer most clubs have felt some level of success but it has NOT grown the competition TV views and attendance has stalled if not gone a little backwards lately because the games gone stale. It is great there is a few new clubs joining the league. Which will hopefully increase interest next season however if Nix leave we are back to a 10 teams (11 when South Sydney join) season so i hope they can get there sh*t together. Just because the league is competitive doesnt make it 'good' and it doesnt seem to be making it more entertaining, wouldnt you agree? The removal of the salary cap also won't suddenly increase interest as fans will probably know the result of a lot of the games before a ball has even been kicked. Also ff we have a league dominated by a couple of clubs, we could well have plenty of matches where teams park the bus and still lose by 3,4,5 goals. One sided games aren't going to increase interest. Games that are close with both teams going for the win will increase interest. The quality of football increases every year anyway while also evening out the competition so removing the cap won't increase interest. the top 5 leagues in the world are all dominated by a few clubs so your clearly wrong....people still turn up to watch Huddersfield and Fulham even tho they are terrible this season, because fans love the club and are battling relegation is actually interesting. Having a league like ours makes teams struggling like WSW uninteresting thus there fan base has basically decided not to turn up but if WSW were on a knifes edge to go down they would be seeing 12-20k a week to support the club in a tough time You need to look at the facts not just make 'sh*t' up that was our FFA has done and it had f***d our league Most of your points are solved and more so resolved by pro / rel and a 2nd division. Hardly a salary cap argument though. wont ever have pro/rel with a salary caps we need around 28 teams to have pro/ rel we struggle to sustain 10 teams there is 'not enough money' simply put at the moment 10 teams salary cap (without extras) is 2.6 million so between the 10 teams that 26 million so if we had 28 teams thats brings you a touch under 73 million..... to have a proper pro/rel league we need to triple the money in the game, where is that money going to come from? sure more teams would result in more money but not that much more? The reality is some clubs would need to pay there squad almost all players min wage and some clubs can afford to pay all players half a million ie Victory or SFC but regardless you would have 28 teams which results in a much bigger league more opportunity for players and a better standard. It is nice to say we want pro/rel but it wont happen under this model 76 million on player wages add all the extra ie pitch costs, coaching, flights etc and it is probably over 100million to have a pro/rel league if you have no cap it could be a lot cheaper and the league would be a lot more interesting So the resolution is to get rid of the salary cap, have half the league as sacrificial lambs paying a whole squad min wage. All to make the league more exciting and competitive in the aus and asian market? eeek. Somehow i don't agree with that. Well, if half the league is on min wage, then at least those 5 teams will be playing competitive against one another :) Do you think fans of the clubs will be happy paying min wage for a squad year on year? The demands to be competitive would mean clubs would spend more on players. I believe your question should be directed to Coffee Jackal not me haha.
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bluebird
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+x+x+x[quote]But my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. Any professional football model has its risks, whether we have a salary cap or dont have one. I dont see why it needs to be "Salary Cap unless no Salary Cap is risk free and perfect" The Salary Cap has not and can not make 10 very different clubs financially viable The Salary Cap has not and can not balance a single season The Salary Cap has not and can not stop clubs from hoarding youth (like Heart did) and shipping them overseas for a profit The Salary Cap has not and can not stop inflated wages because unlike the AFL / NRL, wages in our league are driven by a global market The whole point of a salary cap is to regulate player payments in a local market so that money isnt the deciding factor in determining how players are distributed. Thats the only purpose it serves. It has failed because it is impossible to implement in our game So why keep this tool that doesnt serve a single purpose and rationalise / imagine the benefits until we can prove that the alternative is 100% risk free? The smartest way forward is to remove the salary cap, knowing we have a 3+1 rule to prevent teams from buying the league, and then react to any real problems that arise (instead of the hysterical speculative ones) But i am interested in exactly how no salary cap can make 10 different clubs financially viable? Financial viability and stability are the most important things for any professional football club. This cannot be achieved by somebody pulling a figure out of their ass and telling 10 clubs thats all they can spend on 20 players Gryfox has estimated that the average spend from A League clubs is $7.5m - more than twice the salary cap. We have seen three clubs fold and several clubs hand their licence back in less than 15 years A salary cap has nothing to do with financial viability or stability. They are two very separate problems Whether there is a salary cap or no salary cap is moot. Economic reality is going to determine what a club can spend. Lack of management ability or inability to forecast will determine what problems arise or what promises they cannot keep Only people who dont understand the salary cap will use it as a means of financial stability
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Davstar
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9K,
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+x+x+x+x[quote]But my head believes the salary cap has some kind of place still. My main worries are the following. - Aussie players exploiting this by collectively seeking/asking for higher wages across the board, OR clubs like City inflating the market. - Clubs such as City stock piling all the best young talent. I would want transfer fees introduced but even then my worry isn't the unfair factor its the development of these younger players. - Lastly is clubs succumbing to higher inflated wages to keep even their own average squadies and hitting financial troubles. Any professional football model has its risks, whether we have a salary cap or dont have one. I dont see why it needs to be "Salary Cap unless no Salary Cap is risk free and perfect" The Salary Cap has not and can not make 10 very different clubs financially viable The Salary Cap has not and can not balance a single season The Salary Cap has not and can not stop clubs from hoarding youth (like Heart did) and shipping them overseas for a profit The Salary Cap has not and can not stop inflated wages because unlike the AFL / NRL, wages in our league are driven by a global market The whole point of a salary cap is to regulate player payments in a local market so that money isnt the deciding factor in determining how players are distributed. Thats the only purpose it serves. It has failed because it is impossible to implement in our game So why keep this tool that doesnt serve a single purpose and rationalise / imagine the benefits until we can prove that the alternative is 100% risk free? The smartest way forward is to remove the salary cap, knowing we have a 3+1 rule to prevent teams from buying the league, and then react to any real problems that arise (instead of the hysterical speculative ones) But i am interested in exactly how no salary cap can make 10 different clubs financially viable? Financial viability and stability are the most important things for any professional football club. This cannot be achieved by somebody pulling a figure out of their ass and telling 10 clubs thats all they can spend on 20 players Gryfox has estimated that the average spend from A League clubs is $7.5m - more than twice the salary cap. We have seen three clubs fold and several clubs hand their licence back in less than 15 years A salary cap has nothing to do with financial viability or stability. They are two very separate problems Whether there is a salary cap or no salary cap is moot. Economic reality is going to determine what a club can spend. Lack of management ability or inability to forecast will determine what problems arise or what promises they cannot keep Only people who dont understand the salary cap will use it as a means of financial stability F**k me Bluebird i agree with you 100% and this pretty much sum up the flaw in our salary cap structure
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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D_manu
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Group: Forum Members
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So how does no salary cap keep teams financially viable?
Seems like more of a salary floor issue and adding transfer fees rather then a no salary cap case that your making.
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