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Nancy
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:01 PM
Nancy - 11 May 2019 5:55 PM

Cogger was ordinary most of this game but was better the last 2 weeks, he clearly out played Lewis who was going through a patch of bad form. Lewis is a better defender.

Still think that if he keeps improving he has potential, he is a natural halfback.

But he does need to do a lot better than this game.

You are always too kind HD. Cogger isn't quick, ordinary in defence and has a very ordinary long kicking game. Playing him and others like him is why we are crap.
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:01 PM
Nancy - 11 May 2019 5:55 PM

Cogger was ordinary most of this game but was better the last 2 weeks, he clearly out played Lewis who was going through a patch of bad form. Lewis is a better defender.

Still think that if he keeps improving he has potential, he is a natural halfback.

But he does need to do a lot better than this game.

Cogger is like a young Townsend.
As you say, he is a natural halfback but the difference with Townsend was that you had a Cronulla team that could carry him. We cant afford to carry him right now. I'm actually not too critical of him today - more critical of Foran. Dont think Foran was ready to displace Lewis in this game. We needed him to be ready from the get go. He went missing and we were down 16-0 before we knew it.
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:05 PM
Nancy - 11 May 2019 5:56 PM

Napa has been disappointing, we need Ogen starting.

Foran and Napa are coming back from injury but need to do better,.

I think Pay should have kept Odgen starting, Napa should have come off the bench until his form demanded a starting spot.

This was my point earlier....
Pay knew CHN was out for whatever reason. There was no need to make additional mass changes. Our loss to Manly was fue to a poor start and poor numbering on the left. 
What does he next? Make another 4 changes because we started poorly again?

If so, bye bye Jackson and Foran.
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:07 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:01 PM

Cogger is like a young Townsend.
As you say, he is a natural halfback but the difference with Townsend was that you had a Cronulla team that could carry him. We cant afford to carry him right now. I'm actually not too critical of him today - more critical of Foran. Dont think Foran was ready to displace Lewis in this game. We needed him to be ready from the get go. He went missing and we were down 16-0 before we knew it.
Pffttt.
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:04 PM
Our best play was the double long passes late in game from our 10m that allowed Montoya to make a break and find C Smith. 

Had he passed to JMK straight away it would have been a try under the posts to level scores. Instead.....an error was made in the tackle to diffuse the situation.

Jackson also dropped some key balls in good position to kill our attack. 


Had CHN been playing instead of Smith we probably score there.

In regards to Nancy's criticism of Cogger, he does have a great pass, but needs runners hitting holes.

And we have too many nothing plays in the opposition 20, the good teams have a hooker who can spark something,
But also halves calling a play....and runners ready to hit holes.

The attack is better than the Des era, but needs at lot if work.

I think our problems start at 9, JMK is better than Lichaa but is a weaker defender, Brown is a waste of a jersey wash.

We don't have anyone near good enough in one of the most important positions, it is hard to win from there...



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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:14 PM
Marki - 11 May 2019 6:04 PM

Had CHN been playing instead of Smith we probably score there.

In regards to Nancy's criticism of Cogger, he does have a great pass, but needs runners hitting holes.

And we have too many nothing plays in the opposition 20, the good teams have a hooker who can spark something,
But also halves calling a play....and runners ready to hit holes.

The attack is better than the Des era, but needs at lot if work.

I think our problems start at 9, JMK is better than Lichaa but is a weaker defender, Brown is a waste of a jersey wash.

We don't have anyone near good enough in one of the most important positions, it is hard to win from there...



And once again we relentlessly ignore this fact.
It's like if we cant get Cameron Smith, we dont make any other effort. 
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:10 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:05 PM

This was my point earlier....
Pay knew CHN was out for whatever reason. There was no need to make additional mass changes. Our loss to Manly was fue to a poor start and poor numbering on the left. 
What does he next? Make another 4 changes because we started poorly again?

If so, bye bye Jackson and Foran.

I think the issue with Holland and Martin in defence is the reason for the change.

This game tries were mostly scored on the other side, 

We need CHN back, if Lewis hits form and Cogger doesn't improve Lewis might get the spot back.

If I was coach I would be playing Lewis at 9.

I don't think he will make mass changes...

Both sides defended well most  of this game, we had patches  of good attack, but probably more patches of bad attack. 
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:18 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:14 PM

And once again we relentlessly ignore this fact.
It's like if we cant get Cameron Smith, we dont make any other effort. 

In defence of JMK (and maybe Lichaa), we dont play like a team that is hungry to run onto the ball for meters. We are flat footed and slow with no decoys. Just about any hooker will look bad. 
It's why our hookers look better in reserve grade. The attack has much more variation and enthusiasm and puts defence on back foot. 

This is all Pays problem to fix. I have seen nothing in this thus far.
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For  this team moving forward it has
2 tap some players with a 2nd clean out
moving. Forward the only off contracted
player id keep is faolo the rest are free
agents , even jackson i think his time is just
about up for a captain he dosnt rev the team up 
like a captain should  guys like holland brown
martin , lichha all can go , we need a centre asap
look @ curtis scott in the storms reggies id
jump for him & even 1 more centre even 2 
& a good no 9 
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:07 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:01 PM

Cogger is like a young Townsend.
As you say, he is a natural halfback but the difference with Townsend was that you had a Cronulla team that could carry him. We cant afford to carry him right now. I'm actually not too critical of him today - more critical of Foran. Dont think Foran was ready to displace Lewis in this game. We needed him to be ready from the get go. He went missing and we were down 16-0 before we knew it.

While Nancy rubbished this point it is true in that Cogger is an old style organising halfback, he is no Ash Taylor or Shaun Johnson, he is the exact opposite.

He should keep improving, but willl never be a superstar.
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:22 PM
Marki - 11 May 2019 6:18 PM

In defence of JMK (and maybe Lichaa), we dont play like a team that is hungry to run onto the ball for meters. We are flat footed and slow with no decoys. Just about any hooker will look bad. 
It's why our hookers look better in reserve grade. The attack has much more variation and enthusiasm and puts defence on back foot. 

This is all Pays problem to fix. I have seen nothing in this thus far.

Running hookers need fast play the balls, the refs only notice wrestling when we do it.
Notice the difference when Ogden, Danny and Sue came on, you need middle forwards that run hard.

First week back for Napa, but I only noticed one hard run. 

Get some hard running and our hookers will look better, but in the opposition 20, none of them know what to do.
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Next week could be the battle for the spoon as Panthers v Warriors and Dogs vs Titans. 

Two teams will be buried to bottom of table while 2 will advance themselves. 

It is absolutely vital we win next week. 
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The Roosters have maybe 2 possibly 3 players playing first grade that are clearly reserve grade quality players... you can get away with that when you’ve integrated them with quality!

Same goes with Souths.... they possibly have at least 4.... again same as above as Souths have quality across the 1,6,7 & 9. 


The Dogs on the other hand have 11 to 12 players right now playing 1st grade that are reserve grade quality players playing... no matter how much sugar coating, playing Lewis, playing Lichaa, playing Martin etc...... we will continue to get the exact same results we’ve gotten the past few years again this year as we go forward until there is a major clean out 


Pay or whoever the coach is in the future needs to build a team around the current following players:-

Meaney
Hopoate
Smith
Foran
Lewis
Jackson
CHN
RFM (he should never have been dropped)
Napa
Tolman
Ogden


The rest need to go or take up a spot in reggies.... 


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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:40 PM
Next week could be the battle for the spoon as Panthers v Warriors and Dogs vs Titans. 

Two teams will be buried to bottom of table while 2 will advance themselves. 

It is absolutely vital we win next week. 

Drop in class, but the Titans have some good players, the main danger is they have a game where everything sticks... 

We know they can't close out a game, are good in attack, but can be poor in defence, and can make an error. 

If we get our act together, start well, defend well, some more enterprise in  attack  and reduce the errors, we should win...

We need Dman playing classical guitar in the sheds some the guys come out angry......

We need a forward to hit hard in defence and a hard run in the first 5 mins, someone has to lead by example.  
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Villi - 11 May 2019 6:43 PM
The Roosters have maybe 2 possibly 3 players playing first grade that are clearly reserve grade quality players... you can get away with that when you’ve integrated them with quality!

Same goes with Souths.... they possibly have at least 4.... again same as above as Souths have quality across the 1,6,7 & 9. 


The Dogs on the other hand have 11 to 12 players right now playing 1st grade that are reserve grade quality players playing... no matter how much sugar coating, playing Lewis, playing Lichaa, playing Martin etc...... we will continue to get the exact same results we’ve gotten the past few years again this year as we go forward until there is a major clean out 


Pay or whoever the coach is in the future needs to build a team around the current following players:-

Meaney
Hopoate
Smith
Foran
Lewis
Jackson
CHN
RFM (he should never have been dropped)
Napa
Tolman
Ogden


The rest need to go or take up a spot in reggies.... 



Holland
Sue
Montoya
Crichton
Lichaa
Nu Brown
Chris Smith

The list above can all go...


Jayden O
Danny Fualalo (surprised me the past month)
Elliott
JMK

The list above are worth keeping as reggies/possible *SOME* first grade game time



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Villi - 11 May 2019 6:43 PM
The Roosters have maybe 2 possibly 3 players playing first grade that are clearly reserve grade quality players... you can get away with that when you’ve integrated them with quality!

Same goes with Souths.... they possibly have at least 4.... again same as above as Souths have quality across the 1,6,7 & 9. 


The Dogs on the other hand have 11 to 12 players right now playing 1st grade that are reserve grade quality players playing... no matter how much sugar coating, playing Lewis, playing Lichaa, playing Martin etc...... we will continue to get the exact same results we’ve gotten the past few years again this year as we go forward until there is a major clean out 


Pay or whoever the coach is in the future needs to build a team around the current following players:-

Meaney
Hopoate
Smith
Foran
Lewis
Jackson
CHN
RFM (he should never have been dropped)
Napa
Tolman
Ogden


The rest need to go or take up a spot in reggies.... 


Actually I think we need to build the team brick by brick ... starting with 9...

Pick the best 17 each week, sign quality when we can get it ... don't renew reserve graders...

We can only get rid of player when we sign someone better, we have guys in our 30, that will not play NRL much this year or next year, they should go for starters. 

Olive for example.... if Lichaa doesn't improve, he should go, Brown should go, etc
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Villi - 11 May 2019 6:54 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 6:43 PM


Holland
Sue
Montoya
Crichton
Lichaa
Nu Brown
Chris Smith

The list above can all go...


Jayden O
Danny Fualalo (surprised me the past month)
Elliott
JMK

The list above are worth keeping as reggies/possible *SOME* first grade game time



Typical post from someone who didn't see the game,,, Sue and Montoya were good.
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:56 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 6:54 PM

Typical post from someone who didn't see the game,,, Sue and Montoya were good.


Its typical because come next game or the game after.... the real Suaso Sue & Montoya will reappear 

I don’t care about one or two or three good games in a season HD..... we need these players..... 1st grade quality players delivering good games EVERY WEEK


(Refer to my earlier post)
I rest my case your honour.....


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hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:56 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 6:54 PM

Typical post from someone who didn't see the game,,, Sue and Montoya were good.

What does Villi know?  He thinks Coote is a superstar.
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Marki - 11 May 2019 6:40 PM
Next week could be the battle for the spoon as Panthers v Warriors and Dogs vs Titans. 

Two teams will be buried to bottom of table while 2 will advance themselves. 

It is absolutely vital we win next week. 

This post just got the warriors across the line...
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dman2018 - 11 May 2019 7:24 PM
Marki - 11 May 2019 6:40 PM

This post just got the warriors across the line...

The Mocki strikes again!
Edited
6 Years Ago by Nancy
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Nancy - 11 May 2019 7:23 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:56 PM

What does Villi know?  He thinks Coote is a superstar.


The 11th Immortal....

How dare you Nancy!
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Villi - 11 May 2019 7:03 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:56 PM


Its typical because come next game or the game after.... the real Suaso Sue & Montoya will reappear 

I don’t care about one or two or three good games in a season HD..... we need these players..... 1st grade quality players delivering good games EVERY WEEK


(Refer to my earlier post)
I rest my case your honour.....


You mean the post where you said we have 11-12 players that a reserve graders playing firsts and then nominated 10 players to build a team round???...
uni of Notre Dib strikes again...
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Nancy - 11 May 2019 7:26 PM
dman2018 - 11 May 2019 7:24 PM

The Mocki strikes again!

It was a technical loss, remember the greatest mind in league is always correct...
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dman2018 - 11 May 2019 7:29 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 7:03 PM

You mean the post where you said we have 11-12 players that a reserve graders playing firsts and then nominated 10 players to build a team round???...
uni of Notre Dib strikes again...


Yeah correct....

Build a team around them 10 players


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Villi - 11 May 2019 7:03 PM
hounddog - 11 May 2019 6:56 PM


Its typical because come next game or the game after.... the real Suaso Sue & Montoya will reappear 

I don’t care about one or two or three good games in a season HD..... we need these players..... 1st grade quality players delivering good games EVERY WEEK


(Refer to my earlier post)
I rest my case your honour.....


It is a squad of 30 what we ideally need is :-
1) 5 rep class players
2) 5  above average NRL players.
(Spine should all be in this best 10 as should 2 props - that is 6 our of 10.)
3) 5 average but reliable NRL players 
4) 5 reliable but ordinary NRL players (can do a job)
5) 6 young kids learning NRL 
6) 4 older fringe NRL players, who can mostly do a job, and might have some potential...

(anyone not on this list should be punted)

 Sue & Montoya are in 4) or 6) 

Our issues are-
 5) 6 young kids learning NRL (includes Meaney, Cogger and Lewis)
4) 5 reliable but ordinary NRL players (can do a job) includes - JMK 
6) 4 older fringe NRL players, who can mostly do a job - includes Lichaa

1) 5 rep class players - on form, only one currently in that category.... perhaps CHN
 
The big issue is a lack of elite talent and the fact that only one of our spine players is in the top 10.

I think from 2) downwards we are not that bad, the hope is that some  of good young players will progress.

My point is no point in dumping players in 2), 3) unless we can sign someone who can do a better job...in that position.

Most of 6) and some of 4) we can let go... it depends on that players form and the available options...

Hooker is my recruitment priority, followed by centre,,,

We can let the following go:-
Holland - probably
Sue - possibly
Montoya - possibly
Lichaa - probably
Nu Brown - definitely
Chris Smith - possibly
Tualau - definitely
Olive - definitely
Anderson - already gone?

It all depends on how much money players want relative to what we think they are worth....






Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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When you look at our squad objectively, including the fact that our spine is mostly young inexperienced players, our position on the table is no fluke...

What we are looking for is signs of progress,,,

It didn't show up in the result, but our defence was better this week, perhaps the best we have defended all year...

Attack was missing CHN but if we are honest when a bit backwards on recent weeks.

A club always has to build it's season on defence, we are coming into round 10 and still working on it...

If the team improves, I'm not overly worried about results / ladder position, we have lots that needs improving...
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 7:56 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 7:03 PM

It is a squad of 30 what we ideally need is :-
1) 5 rep class players
2) 5  above average NRL players.
(Spine should all be in this best 10 as should 2 props - that is 6 our of 10.)
3) 5 average but reliable NRL players 
4) 5 reliable but ordinary NRL players (can do a job)
5) 6 young kids learning NRL 
6) 4 older fringe NRL players, who can mostly do a job, and might have some potential...

(anyone not on this list should be punted)

 Sue & Montoya are in 4) or 6) 

Our issues are-
 5) 6 young kids learning NRL (includes Meaney, Cogger and Lewis)
4) 5 reliable but ordinary NRL players (can do a job) includes - JMK 
6) 4 older fringe NRL players, who can mostly do a job - includes Lichaa

1) 5 rep class players - on form, only one currently in that category.... perhaps CHN
 
The big issue is a lack of elite talent and the fact that only one of our spine players is in the top 10.

I think from 2) downwards we are not that bad, the hope is that some  of good young players will progress.

My point is no point in dumping players in 2), 3) unless we can sign someone who can do a better job...in that position.

Most of 6) and some of 4) we can let go... it depends on that players form and the available options...

Hooker is my recruitment priority, followed by centre,,,

We can let the following go:-
Holland - probably
Sue - possibly
Montoya - possibly
Lichaa - probably
Nu Brown - definitely
Chris Smith - possibly
Tualau - definitely
Olive - definitely
Anderson - already gone?

It all depends on how much money players want relative to what we think they are worth....







Yes to a gun 9

Yes to a gun Half.... 6 or 7

Yes to some gun centres....


The biggest YES has to be Support Runners & Faster Defensive Line Speed 


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dman2018 - 11 May 2019 7:29 PM
Villi - 11 May 2019 7:03 PM

You mean the post where you said we have 11-12 players that a reserve graders playing firsts and then nominated 10 players to build a team round???...
uni of Notre Dib strikes again...

Villi's maths teacher is on the phone sounding worried, what should I tell her? :) 
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hounddog - 11 May 2019 8:10 PM
dman2018 - 11 May 2019 7:29 PM

Villi's maths teacher is on the phone sounding worried, what should I tell her? :) 


Mr Muritti....

Tell him I said hi
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