Hopefully they can give a really good account of themselves this year with their youth that has come through in the mix and their colourful yet wise coach. Like I said, I'm not a City supporter but infact an A League supporter first, then a particular Sydney club next.
City group senior member was interviewed recently,I think I heard about it on FNR, whereby CIty group want to turn this club into the most successful club in Asia. Independenca of the A League had to come first, no doubt about it.

Mostly maoris and kiwis actually. But Storm go head to head with afl so i'd say the rusted on base they have is more impressive than Victory.

Nobody considers city a northern burbs team..not even those that live in the North like myself. I've seen them host events in shopping centres out here that have closed early cos nobody cared. They are a city based team and the support they have is sprinkled through out Melbourne.

City are a Northern based team on the map, with supporters sprinkled around, playing in the top tier competition. They have a broader appeal, support is not from the one culture only, and are seriously alot wealthier than South Melbourne. 

Sometimes when you know very little about a subject it is best to be quiet.
I have made no comment on the new team in Sydney and if it will work. I do not live there so I would not have much of a idea to its success.

City are not from the northern suburbs. The northern suburbs do not identify with them. They do not play games (not even friendlies there). Victory have more of a connection with the northern suburbs than City do. This is City's issue. They have no connection with any area and that is why they have been a flop.
Western United will have that connection with an area once they get their stadium up and the population of that area grows.
Dandenong is an area that is set to go right now. 
For the A league to prosper it needs a strong presence in Melbourne. Melbourne will soon be the biggest city in Australia and it is certainly has the biggest sporting fan culture. Get it right in Melbourne and the rest will work. That is why City has been such a let down. No location. No fans. No big interest in A league in Melbourne and thus Australia.
This point is the key to the success of the A league. We need a Victory vs Somebody. Like SFC has with WSW (but it will be much bigger here if done correct). It will never happen with City. It might happen with MV vs WU but it is years away. It could happen with MV vs a Dandenong team in just a few years. 
This point is more important to success than a second division or any other matter. Melbourne is the key. If we can get good crowds to rugby here and amazing crowds to the rubbish that is AFL imagine how real football could take off in Melbourne. MC have been a huge mistake in achieving this outcome.

That’s a good post. 

Melbourne City have no choice but to (try) and identify with the city of Melbourne because that is their name. Trying to carve out a fake geographic representation after the event will fail - city’s rebranding of Heart was ill thought through. 

Had they have reversed that and gone with say “Heart of Melbourne” or Hearts for short (yes, copying Midlothian) the identity would have been clear - “we represent the city, we are the sporting heart of this city (okay, that’s a stretch), Victory is for the State - not you lot in the city” they could have kept their heritage intact and redefined who they are locally; 

Remember this is not a City created problem though, Heart were just as bad only broke. One of the tests for expansion must be to ensure there are no more Hearts  

cracking post.  

Apparently, Melb City was ranked No.2 in terms of talented young players from 14-16 behind Man City in the CFG portfolio in youth development.

Along with them are also planning to build another youth academy facility in the soon future, so clearly their intentions is on youth development.

Western United, its too early to say i think they want to do well in the first season to have a solid number of fans given how experienced their team is but i have not seen enough community work done from them unlike Melb City who do that quite well (They recently opened a futsal facility as well).

I think Western United building their stadium will help them alot though, but they need to do alot more in engaging with the local community.

Point being Melb City are doing more good than bad for Australian football but of course is it to help identify the next Arzani and sell? I think they can do that and be successful on the pitch, they could also bring flashy marquee players as a differentiation but so far apart from David Villa and Timmy they showed little intention in that.

Nope.
To be fair, neither Victory nor City represent a single identifiable geographical region. Melbourne doesn't really work that way. Although there is division, it's nowhere near as geographically divided as Sydney is. Victory members and fans are from all over Melbourne and not at all confined to inner city suburbs. I'm a MV member and I'm from the Northern suburbs and so are the people I go to games with. I also have friends and family from both out west and out east that are also Victory members. If you look at Southern Cross station after a game at Marvel, every platform is packed. People are travelling back home in all directions. Some people are home after a few stops and others are home at the end of the line and anywhere in between. City may train in the north but nobody recognises that to mean they represent the north. People in Melbourne are accustomed to commuting into the city for both sporting and non sporting events, so geography is less important than it is in other major cities. Victory were just here first so they have the widest support and catchment area. The Victory name and colours are also a very clear attempt to encompass the entire state and not just the city. That's very much the mentality of us MV supporters. It's us (Victorians) versus the rest of Australia. 

Whilst results are very important, from a geographical point of view are victory much different from city? Or is it simply that they were first team in the state. The fault really lies with FFA for not starting with 2 teams from the beginning. Victory might be a success but equally responsible for the current predicament. If we were taking geographic both heart and victory should never have happened. It should have been east v west from the start. 

That's due to melbourne literally  being  a grid and planned out.  The city is dead centre of Victoria.  Unlike Sydney where the geographical centre is Parramatta.

Yawn. Shit thread. In an open league, no one gives a fuck about crowds, only success and trophies.

True, ex pats was sort of the point i was making though with their support. But i'd imagine Victory would be pulling pretty much the same numbers as Storm head to head with the AFL, we are at the point in the league where pretty much every team is at its minimum with core support. The league already overlaps with the AFL for like a month or two, the crowds don't take that much of a dive.

well victory has club legends and a bit of history now we don't really have a club legend besides patty everyone else has moved on 

Captain hindsight here and i can appreciate why the ffa went the one team per town model to give the financial backers some confidence and security.
But ultimately the best way Melbourne could've done it wouldve been South Melb at Bob Jane in rectangular format and Victory at Olympic Park in its first season.
That would've generated an extremely tasty rivalry from the get go.

Still no reason why Victory wouldn't have had strong rivalries with Syd and Adel at the same time.

Captain hindsight is right - the first season should have been two sides in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney plus Adelaide and Glory. 

Melbourne won't be the largest city in the future, demographics not heading that way to that degree.. CIty are Northern suburbs prodominently and want a slice out of metro area as well. Best you don't blow hot air.

Melbourne will overtake Sydney to be Australia's largest city in 2026. Based on the current growth rate, Melbourne will reach 7 million in 2031 and 8 million in 2037 (with Sydney not reaching 8 million until 2040).Aug 27, 2018.

(google - when will melbourne be bigger than sydney).

City are no suburb dominant.

You make Jon Snow look like a genius!

next time do everyone a favour and do a bit of research before hitting the Post button. it would have taken you 30 seconds to google.  

Yeah the rivalry between Victory and South Melbourne would have been amazing. Hopefully one day it will happen. 

It's not a problem at all.

But without any sense of geographical or strong cultural identity to anchor themselves with, they then have to rely on Australian Manchester City fans (or non-Man Utd fans) to convert or win people over with success/champagne football.

They haven't really done any of that, bar one FFA CUP victory. Though they might be a financial powerhouse, relative CFG's wealth and expenditure with other CFG clubs, it's barely been flexed here. They've had Robbie Koren as a marquee (Not successful), David Villa (who only played four game and very clear that he didn't want to be here) and Tim Cahill (who left soon after). 

If their identity is simply Manchester City in Melbourne, well why don't they spend like it?

While you are right about Melbourne being bigger and soon, on the other point I think City could do far worse than focus on the northern suburbs where they've set up their training and admin base as a way towards finding an identity and a generational fanbase. Really, they should have gone in with Heidelberg for the redevelopment of Olympic Village.

Of course, all that has been said before, but City will just continue to play out of the stadium built for their rival in the city centre and just trade off the name of their parent club, green seats be damned.

They did. The year they signed Timmy they spent $9M+ on players. No other HAL club has ever come close to that. Then they realised that in a salary capped league, spending big on two players doesn't result in trophies, it doesn't result in bums on seats and it definitely doesn't result in any ROI. As long as the HAL has a cap, no rewards for winning and no consequences for losing then there is simply no reason to spend big.

Point is Melbourne Victory have no geographical boundaries. As doesnt Melbourne City. Victory had the opportunity then to take their pick from every geographical region from the state. You think this is the right way to go about it? There was a report done showing that this was the wrong way to go about it. 

South Melbourne? Yawn.  

Its actually a really interesting, enjoyable debate.

Something you're not capable of.

Its the only way I can ever see City getting bigger crowds tbh. Sustained success with (relatively)big name players. 

Achieve that and victory +  the rest of the league will hate them intensly which will drive rivalry and interest.

Why with Australian football fans, the idea of what club a fan supports or the clubs identity strictly comes from where the fan lives as well as where the club is located specifically within a city, east, west, north etc?
It's only one variable of many that differentiate people from supporting clubs within the same city. I lived and was working in Madrid, the reasoning or difference between Atletico Madrid supporters and Real Madrid supporters wasn't necessarily down to who lived south and north of Madrid. I quickly found out what their main difference was between the two clubs and their fans were and immediately became an Atleti supporter through feeling the same connection. Atletico supporters are hard working class people. I went to a pub and you could literally see the difference between the two fans. But thats just one other variable that could shape people's association with a football club. 
Another example was while I was living in Rome too. Roma aren't even located in the inner city of Rome, yet they have the majority of fanbase in Rome. Roma are the perfect example for both Victory and City to follow, but for this argument mostly City. Roma represents the whole of the city, as do Lazio, they have this inner city image like City and similarly too, they're not based within the inner city. Lazio is located next to the Stadio Olympico, while as mentioned Roma are located close to an hour away from the stadium (40 plus mins without traffic). Yet, many inner Romans, follow Roma regardless of where they're located.

There are other variables, people need to realise that. I for one don't live in the north, yet I'm a City supporter. 

Heart came in with the identity being the way they would play and  a focus on youth

Ironically its only this year that City has played that way with youth.

It's certainly true that there are other variables at play for a club identity than just geography. The ethnic ex NSL clubs also being a prime example.