Melbourne city vs Western united (off the pitch)


Melbourne city vs Western united (off the pitch)

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sydneyfc1987
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paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 1:32 PM
mlar - 8 Nov 2019 1:21 PM

It's certainly true that there are other variables at play for a club identity than just geography. The ethnic ex NSL clubs also being a prime example.

Hence the "western sydney is geography, Sydney fc is a state of mind" TIFO that flew over so many people's heads a few years back.

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Feed_The_Brox - 8 Nov 2019 9:21 AM
Iknowbest - 8 Nov 2019 7:38 AM

cracking post.  

Where City market their team is smart trying to get fans from the city areas. Geographically they are from the northern suburbs, you two are rusted on haters, negative..actually adjust your skirts your embarrassing!! 
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Feed_The_Brox - 8 Nov 2019 12:19 PM
soccerfoo - 8 Nov 2019 11:08 AM

next time do everyone a favour and do a bit of research before hitting the Post button. it would have taken you 30 seconds to google.  

The stats you got are fake news, you are alittle foolish.
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soccerfoo - 8 Nov 2019 2:25 PM
Feed_The_Brox - 8 Nov 2019 12:19 PM

The stats you got are fake news, you are alittle foolish.

No. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/booming-melbourne-to-become-nation-s-largest-city-by-2026-20190327-p5186v.html
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sydneyfc1987 - 8 Nov 2019 1:56 PM
paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 1:32 PM

Hence the "western sydney is geography, Sydney fc is a state of mind" TIFO that flew over so many people's heads a few years back.

No, Sydney fc are not West cause thats Wanderland, they are not South/West cause thats cow bells territory MacArthur fc. They are Sydney City and Northorth/West (towards ryde). They curremtly play at Kogarah (southern Syd) and Leichhardt Oval (slightly North/west) until Allianz is re-constructed in the metro area. They may want to tell everyone that they cover every geographical place in Sydney though.
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paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 2:28 PM
soccerfoo - 8 Nov 2019 2:25 PM

No. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/booming-melbourne-to-become-nation-s-largest-city-by-2026-20190327-p5186v.html

Good article but off the mark, Sydney is sprawling in the west and southwest like a tsunami. So is south east qld.
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6 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 8 Nov 2019 2:35 PM
paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 2:28 PM

Good article but off the mark, Sydney is sprawling in the west and southwest like a tsunami. So is south east qld.

So you dispute the ABS stats?
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soccerfoo - 8 Nov 2019 2:35 PM
paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 2:28 PM

Good article but off the mark, Sydney is sprawling in the west and southwest like a tsunami. So is south east qld.

So is Melbourne in both the east and west.
South east QLD is growing because there are heaps of people leaving both Sydney and Melbourne and moving up there because they get so much more house for their dollar.
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Bocca - 8 Nov 2019 12:27 PM
aussie pride - 8 Nov 2019 10:28 AM

Yeah the rivalry between Victory and South Melbourne would have been amazing. Hopefully one day it will happen. 

That ship has sailed. All bias aside it was such an obvious choice. When 8k ppl turned up to that friendly midweek in mid 2007 that should have been the green light. Facebook wasnt even a thing yet it was just promoted on the 2 clubs forums with 5 days notice and they poured in by the thousands that night.
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hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 12:36 PM
soccerfoo - 7 Nov 2019 9:59 PM

It's not a problem at all.

But without any sense of geographical or strong cultural identity to anchor themselves with, they then have to rely on Australian Manchester City fans (or non-Man Utd fans) to convert or win people over with success/champagne football.

They haven't really done any of that, bar one FFA CUP victory. Though they might be a financial powerhouse, relative CFG's wealth and expenditure with other CFG clubs, it's barely been flexed here. They've had Robbie Koren as a marquee (Not successful), David Villa (who only played four game and very clear that he didn't want to be here) and Tim Cahill (who left soon after). 

If their identity is simply Manchester City in Melbourne, well why don't they spend like it?

They dont spend because its been proven to not be a smart decision for a number of reasons.

This season the club had done more connecting to fans and building a strong culture than they ever have. I've noticed this season they're doing more things to connect the club to Melbourne than ever before. Sure there is still the CFG connotation there but inside 4 walls (being a member) there's less and less of this. CFG had learnt many lessons over the 5 years they've been here. I'm certain the biggest mistakes they've made are behind us. 
To people on the outside this may not be apparent yet. But if the club continue to do what they have been doing the last 6 months then people will start to take notice. And this coupled with success will make the club look very different in the eyes of the neutrals and naysayers. A lot has to go right. Time will tell. 
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n i k o - 8 Nov 2019 3:36 PM
hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 12:36 PM

They dont spend because its been proven to not be a smart decision for a number of reasons.

This season the club had done more connecting to fans and building a strong culture than they ever have. I've noticed this season they're doing more things to connect the club to Melbourne than ever before. Sure there is still the CFG connotation there but inside 4 walls (being a member) there's less and less of this. CFG had learnt many lessons over the 5 years they've been here. I'm certain the biggest mistakes they've made are behind us. 
To people on the outside this may not be apparent yet. But if the club continue to do what they have been doing the last 6 months then people will start to take notice. And this coupled with success will make the club look very different in the eyes of the neutrals and naysayers. A lot has to go right. Time will tell. 

In the lack of geographical/social/cultural identity that anchors every other sporting club, I do believe success and excellent football is going to be the best (only) way for City to cut through the sporting landscape and carve out its own identity.


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hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 5:17 PM
n i k o - 8 Nov 2019 3:36 PM

In the lack of geographical/social/cultural identity that anchors every other sporting club, I do believe success and excellent football is going to be the best (only) way for City to cut through the sporting landscape and carve out its own identity.

I tend to agree. City is a club for the next generation or the generation after them. They are not going to see some massive upturn in membership/attendances in a year or two. Once they win some trophies or at least make a grand final or two, then they will start growing. People in Melbourne want winners, simple as that.
I don't like referring to the AFL, but this is a good example that illustrates the point. Richmond were pretty much rubbish-to-average all through the 90s and 00s. Their membership tally in 2010 was 35.9K. This is a club with a very long and rich history. After 9 years of building up their performances, becoming a top 8 side and winning some trophies they had 103.3k members this year. They nearly tripled their membership in less than a decade, simply by being successful. That's what it takes to win the fans over in Melbourne. I guarantee there are easily 20-30k+ city fans out there, but they are not going to commit to the club until they start demonstrating they can be properly successful.

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someguyjc - 8 Nov 2019 5:33 PM
hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 5:17 PM

I tend to agree. City is a club for the next generation or the generation after them. They are not going to see some massive upturn in membership/attendances in a year or two. Once they win some trophies or at least make a grand final or two, then they will start growing. People in Melbourne want winners, simple as that.
I don't like referring to the AFL, but this is a good example that illustrates the point. Richmond were pretty much rubbish-to-average all through the 90s and 00s. Their membership tally in 2010 was 35.9K. This is a club with a very long and rich history. After 9 years of building up their performances, becoming a top 8 side and winning some trophies they had 103.3k members this year. They nearly tripled their membership in less than a decade, simply by being successful. That's what it takes to win the fans over in Melbourne. I guarantee there are easily 20-30k+ city fans out there, but they are not going to commit to the club until they start demonstrating they can be properly successful.

Problem is what happens when you go through a rough patch/transitional years when you are not successful or playing well at all? Though I think it might the only option left for City, building your identity solely around success is well...


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paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 1:32 PM
mlar - 8 Nov 2019 1:21 PM

It's certainly true that there are other variables at play for a club identity than just geography. The ethnic ex NSL clubs also being a prime example.

In fact ethnicity acts to negate the geographic identity


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someguyjc - 8 Nov 2019 5:33 PM
hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 5:17 PM

I tend to agree. City is a club for the next generation or the generation after them. They are not going to see some massive upturn in membership/attendances in a year or two. Once they win some trophies or at least make a grand final or two, then they will start growing. People in Melbourne want winners, simple as that.
I don't like referring to the AFL, but this is a good example that illustrates the point. Richmond were pretty much rubbish-to-average all through the 90s and 00s. Their membership tally in 2010 was 35.9K. This is a club with a very long and rich history. After 9 years of building up their performances, becoming a top 8 side and winning some trophies they had 103.3k members this year. They nearly tripled their membership in less than a decade, simply by being successful. That's what it takes to win the fans over in Melbourne. I guarantee there are easily 20-30k+ city fans out there, but they are not going to commit to the club until they start demonstrating they can be properly successful.

The problem is that you're talking about a cyclical uptick in Richmond's membership that will come and go over the years, not their foundation of their fanbase as a club, which is something City is still struggling with.
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hames_jetfield - 8 Nov 2019 6:08 PM
someguyjc - 8 Nov 2019 5:33 PM

Problem is what happens when you go through a rough patch/transitional years when you are not successful or playing well at all? Though I think it might the only option left for City, building your identity solely around success is well...

We know what happens. Its been happening for all of heart/city's lives.  yet they're still going

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paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 6:15 PM
someguyjc - 8 Nov 2019 5:33 PM

The problem is that you're talking about a cyclical uptick in Richmond's membership that will come and go over the years, not their foundation of their fanbase as a club, which is something City is still struggling with.

How?  Their base is about 7-10k.  We know that its a base because thats the membership when they're winning nothing.  I wouldn't call it struggling, even as compared to many first tier European Leagues. 

And thats the problem- spectator sport in Melbourne is huge even as compare to the rest of the world

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Enzo Bearzot - 8 Nov 2019 6:22 PM
paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 6:15 PM

How?  Their base is about 7-10k.  We know that its a base because thats the membership when they're winning nothing.  I wouldn't call it struggling, even as compared to many first tier European Leagues. 

And thats the problem- spectator sport in Melbourne is huge even as compare to the rest of the world

I won't believe any crowd figure over 3k for today's match.

Their problem has always been that they are Not Melbourne Victory. They have always had an identity problem.

Wearing Heart's colours for a game won't be the solution.

Edited
6 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 7:55 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 8 Nov 2019 6:22 PM

I won't believe any crowd figure over 3k for today's match. Wearing Heart's colours for a game won't be the solution.

Good active numbers tho.. Better and louder than the NT recently.


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sydneyfc1987 - 8 Nov 2019 7:57 PM
paladisious - 8 Nov 2019 7:55 PM

Good active numbers tho.. Better and louder than the NT recently.

The NT is very much going through a recovery phase.
Edited
6 Years Ago by paladisious
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It's interesting, when we simply separate membership numbers, we are 500 away from 12,000 members. For some perspective this is after Joyce brought some of the dire football I have ever witnessed. 
As a comparison, what victory have done is they have created rusted on fans through some successful results. 
Admittedly the crowd on Friday wasn't good. I don't buy the shocking weather as an excuse. You brave it and turn up. But I can't speak for those that didn't go. But I'd go out on a limb to say that this supporter base ability to grow with some success is a certainty. I see 15,000 members at least as a certain possibility with a title and some repeat success in the season after. And I see the majority of those showing up to games regularly. 



Edited
6 Years Ago by n i k o
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SO  our y league team plays at CB Smith Reserve
our w league plays at ABD Stadium

so to the people saying we should base our team in the northern suburbs, how do you think these teams will go with their crowds? 
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Melbcityguy - 26 Nov 2019 10:14 AM
SO  our y league team plays at CB Smith Reserve
our w league plays at ABD Stadium

so to the people saying we should base our team in the northern suburbs, how do you think these teams will go with their crowds? 

 It's the y league and w league. Is there even a discussion point here? 
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So atm WU average 6,199 and city average 8,369
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Melbcityguy - 20 Jan 2020 1:45 PM
So atm WU average 6,199 and city average 8,369

Those averages are boosted by the MV games. If you exclude the MV games, the averages are MC 6,916 and WU 5,638.
Edited
5 Years Ago by someguyjc
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If WU had the stadium up and running, surely they'd be getting close to 10k? Would have a clear connection with the "West" of Melbourne. 
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someguyjc - 20 Jan 2020 2:03 PM
Melbcityguy - 20 Jan 2020 1:45 PM

Those averages are boosted by the MV games. If you exclude the MV games, the averages are MC 6,916 and WU 5,638.

I think a team at Dandenong would (in a new stadium) be doing better than both MC or WU.
Now before you say WU do not have their stadium yet you need to consider "will WU ever have a new stadium?".
I think the answer to that is beginning to look like a NO.

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thekingmb - 20 Jan 2020 2:15 PM
If WU had the stadium up and running, surely they'd be getting close to 10k? Would have a clear connection with the "West" of Melbourne. 

That all depends on what the club looks like in 3-4 years time. If they had their own stadium right now, I could see them hitting 10k given the squad and results they have been getting this season. However in 3-4 years time, if they have a rubbish squad and have missed finals every year (except this one), then they will get sub 6k crowds.
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someguyjc - 20 Jan 2020 2:27 PM
thekingmb - 20 Jan 2020 2:15 PM

That all depends on what the club looks like in 3-4 years time. If they had their own stadium right now, I could see them hitting 10k given the squad and results they have been getting this season. However in 3-4 years time, if they have a rubbish squad and have missed finals every year (except this one), then they will get sub 6k crowds.

Spot on!
New teams need to come in with their stadium built. Or at least have a temporary ground in a good location with stadium being built not just in a planning phase.

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Interesting dynamic this weekend... City should get a bigger crowd than usual this weekend 2 v 3 on the table. WU playing first game at Whitten Oval on Aus day.. who will get the bigger crowd?
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