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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway.
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sirhcdobo
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+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. We have the ultimate example in the HAL with ange's first real team. that was a team that was much much better than the sum of its parts (granted most were players, that even though at the time were low or poor A-league players, had huge potentials). Of the regular starters we had Matt smith and Ivan franjic who were NPL players, we had Mitch Nichols, Luke Brattan, rocky visconte, that were young and wouldnt have started anywhere else in the league (let alone be picked up by another club before the season started). we had Paartalu who was a low level SPL shit kicker, we had Massimo who would have been a fringe player at any other team and solorzano, who failed miserably at victory the next season. that is 6-8 regular first team starters that were below A-league standard at the beginning of the season that when organised properly, working together changed the league. granted there was Broich who was several times better than any other player in the league to build around and solid spine of A-league regulars (who are equal to comparable players from other teams) in Steff, Mckay, Theo and Susak it is clear now that our current team does not have that solid spine of players that are equal to other teams. in my opinion we have Young, aldred, oshae and Mauk who are comparable to most other a-league club starting 11. We do not have any stand out players (ninkovic, castro, Jmac, Forna, Mcgree ect) we have one or two players that have potential O-niel, JCP. it look to me that the players though are just not all pulling in the same direction. that could be RF's fault in that he is not a great manager or is playing favourites, but it could be a few in the squad not pulling their weight (or with bad attitudes). My feeling is that there are a few prima donnas in the squad who are not giving it their all (im looking at AAH, Inman and possibly a few that have yet to feature in games) and are just cruising. there is only so much any coach can do with those sorts of players. I do feel that GiIlesphie is just simply not good enough quality to be a starter though, same with Neville. Like pepper, they could come in a do a job every now and then but when you have multiples of them on the park at the same time then it all falls apart. Would rather play someone that actually has potential to be a better player.
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notarobot
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The WU game on Friday night will be the test , win and there may be hope , lose and I’d say season over.
what changes he makes if any will be interesting.
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Keeper66
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. When you count Brad Inman into the mix (not a visa player but an English lower league recruit nonetheless), that's three of them spending about 8-9 seasons in EPL squads - however for the grand total of one league appearance across all of them (according to Wiki).
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crimsoncrusoe
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I dont think there is much point talking about comparisons with League one,because we dont have a team of League One players or even close to it.
A.Holloway played a few seasons in League One (but barely a full game ever)- he plays part time for the Roar.
Brad Inman played the last two seasons regularly in League One and is again in and out of the team.
O'Shay last season played League two.Before that League One.He is a regular Roar player.
M.Gilesphey played the last two seasons in League Two.
T.Aldred played in the Scottish Premiership the last two seasons.Before that League One and League Two.
The rest of the players are ROD and Aussies.
So comparing the team to a League One standard makes no sense.Only two players came directly from League One and niether play regularly.
The three visa players playing regularly came from League Two , Scotland and sometime long ago , ROD came from Indonseia,Brunei and League Two.That was his last three years before joining CCM.
So currently there are no League One players playing full games for the Roar.The regular Visa players are League 2 -2 players.One for Scotland and One from Newcastle/CCM/Brunei/League Two.Thats their form before coming here.
Add in the best Aussie players---Mauk -A season injured,AON---- CCM before that two years part time in League One.A bunch of youngsters and Neville who sat out most of last year in Perth.
Does anyone not think that recruitment was a problem?
There is just no quality.
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notarobot
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+xI dont think there is much point talking about comparisons with League one,because we dont have a team of League One players or even close to it. A.Holloway played a few seasons in League One (but barely a full game ever)- he plays part time for the Roar. Brad Inman played the last two seasons regularly in League One and is again in and out of the team. O'Shay last season played League two.Before that League One.He is a regular Roar player. M.Gilesphey played the last two seasons in League Two. T.Aldred played in the Scottish Premiership the last two seasons.Before that League One and League Two. The rest of the players are ROD and Aussies. So comparing the team to a League One standard makes no sense.Only two players came directly from League One and niether play regularly. The three visa players playing regularly came from League Two , Scotland and sometime long ago , ROD came from Indonseia,Brunei and League Two.That was his last three years before joining CCM. So currently there are no League One players playing full games for the Roar.The regular Visa players are League 2 -2 players.One for Scotland and One from Newcastle/CCM/Brunei/League Two.Thats their form before coming here. Add in the best Aussie players---Mauk -A season injured,AON---- CCM before that two years part time in League One.A bunch of youngsters and Neville who sat out most of last year in Perth. Does anyone not think that recruitment was a problem? There is just no quality. Great summary CC balanced
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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. When you count Brad Inman into the mix (not a visa player but an English lower league recruit nonetheless), that's three of them spending about 8-9 seasons in EPL squads - however for the grand total of one league appearance across all of them (according to Wiki). I’m pretty sure EPL squads aren’t in the habit of keeping League One/Two grade players on their books so yes, few appearances, but Fowler’s gamble was they had the quality. And while people argue “there’s “no quality there” the xG, xA and xD stats disagree - there is quality there, Fowler’s just unable to organise it effectively. The drawback is I’m not sure where Fowler turns to if he wants to shake up his starting team because it looks like his gamble was the sum of the parts being greater than the whole, and if that gamble is wrong then he’s nowhere to turn too because it’s going to be a like for like swap.
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Keeper66
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. When you count Brad Inman into the mix (not a visa player but an English lower league recruit nonetheless), that's three of them spending about 8-9 seasons in EPL squads - however for the grand total of one league appearance across all of them (according to Wiki). I’m pretty sure EPL squads aren’t in the habit of keeping League One/Two grade players on their books so yes, few appearances, but Fowler’s gamble was they had the quality. And while people argue “there’s “no quality there” the xG, xA and xD stats disagree - there is quality there, Fowler’s just unable to organise it effectively. The drawback is I’m not sure where Fowler turns to if he wants to shake up his starting team because it looks like his gamble was the sum of the parts being greater than the whole, and if that gamble is wrong then he’s nowhere to turn too because it’s going to be a like for like swap. On the contrary I would argue that EPL clubs are in the habit of keeping young League 1/2 standard players in the hope they will further improve, and those that don't improve (which is probably the majority) do often then become actual League 1/2 players. O'Shea, Inman and Gillesphey are examples of this. And irrespective of xG, xA and xD stats, after 8 games of the season I suggest that the most relevant stats, i.e., those numbers in the W D L F A Pts columns, are not inconsistent with the quality of the squad.
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Keeper66
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+xI dont think there is much point talking about comparisons with League one,because we dont have a team of League One players or even close to it. A.Holloway played a few seasons in League One (but barely a full game ever)- he plays part time for the Roar. Brad Inman played the last two seasons regularly in League One and is again in and out of the team. O'Shay last season played League two.Before that League One.He is a regular Roar player. M.Gilesphey played the last two seasons in League Two. T.Aldred played in the Scottish Premiership the last two seasons.Before that League One and League Two. The rest of the players are ROD and Aussies. So comparing the team to a League One standard makes no sense.Only two players came directly from League One and niether play regularly. The three visa players playing regularly came from League Two , Scotland and sometime long ago , ROD came from Indonseia,Brunei and League Two.That was his last three years before joining CCM. So currently there are no League One players playing full games for the Roar.The regular Visa players are League 2 -2 players.One for Scotland and One from Newcastle/CCM/Brunei/League Two.Thats their form before coming here. Add in the best Aussie players---Mauk -A season injured,AON---- CCM before that two years part time in League One.A bunch of youngsters and Neville who sat out most of last year in Perth. Does anyone not think that recruitment was a problem? There is just no quality. Agreed
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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. When you count Brad Inman into the mix (not a visa player but an English lower league recruit nonetheless), that's three of them spending about 8-9 seasons in EPL squads - however for the grand total of one league appearance across all of them (according to Wiki). I’m pretty sure EPL squads aren’t in the habit of keeping League One/Two grade players on their books so yes, few appearances, but Fowler’s gamble was they had the quality. And while people argue “there’s “no quality there” the xG, xA and xD stats disagree - there is quality there, Fowler’s just unable to organise it effectively. The drawback is I’m not sure where Fowler turns to if he wants to shake up his starting team because it looks like his gamble was the sum of the parts being greater than the whole, and if that gamble is wrong then he’s nowhere to turn too because it’s going to be a like for like swap. On the contrary I would argue that EPL clubs are in the habit of keeping young League 1/2 standard players in the hope they will further improve, and those that don't improve (which is probably the majority) do often then become actual League 1/2 players. O'Shea, Inman and Gillesphey are examples of this. And irrespective of xG, xA and xD stats, after 8 games of the season I suggest that the most relevant stats, i.e., those numbers in the W D L F A Pts columns, are not inconsistent with the quality of the squad. I wouldn’t argue with that which is actually one of my main points - Roar are about the same quality as 7 other sides, they gave Adelaide a scare, beat second place City (which probably says more about the gap between City and SFC tbh), and got thumped by Sydney. xGAD stats are actually a direct indicator of quality though and not to be ignored unless you want to throw baby and bath water out together - and they suggest Roars “quality” at least in creating chances, is higher than those teams immediately around them. Whats got Roar 5 points off third place and not in third place is poor performances from key individuals (ROD, Inman not converting xG), and (Crocombe not stopping xA) - Fix those two and Roar are 4th with the same squad ... what cant be measured easily is whether there’s an underlying cause to this as discussed earlier (lack of squad unity, not all buying in to Fowler’s plans etc) or whether confidence and self belief are ranking. Win on Friday and it’s three straight home wins - been a while since we did that. Small wins sadly cos even if we win the next three, were clearly way behind SFC.
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camberwelldorjes
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. .... I think that’s called “fandom” or whatever Simon Hill called it this week on twitter What i I like about going to Roar is the friendships made over time, I hate supporting a team playing sh*t but love my fellow sufferers there week in and week out. I don’t mind the occasional fans as not everyone can afford the time or Money to go every week. What i I don’t like is the blow-ins and the plastics who only show for the big games and the finals and easily criticise just for the sake of it. I’d hate to be married to these soulless pricks. And I hate those fans who turn on their players, they hounded Petratos even when he was playing great, and he’s not the only one over the years but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay
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notarobot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. .... I think that’s called “fandom” or whatever Simon Hill called it this week on twitter What i I like about going to Roar is the friendships made over time, I hate supporting a team playing sh*t but love my fellow sufferers there week in and week out. I don’t mind the occasional fans as not everyone can afford the time or Money to go every week. What i I don’t like is the blow-ins and the plastics who only show for the big games and the finals and easily criticise just for the sake of it. I’d hate to be married to these soulless pricks. And I hate those fans who turn on their players, they hounded Petratos even when he was playing great, and he’s not the only one over the years but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay Yes it’s a blight on the the game , I have heard of so called supporters getting their Facebook posts removed by the club after abusing roar players online. Terrible
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. .... I think that’s called “fandom” or whatever Simon Hill called it this week on twitter What i I like about going to Roar is the friendships made over time, I hate supporting a team playing sh*t but love my fellow sufferers there week in and week out. I don’t mind the occasional fans as not everyone can afford the time or Money to go every week. What i I don’t like is the blow-ins and the plastics who only show for the big games and the finals and easily criticise just for the sake of it. I’d hate to be married to these soulless pricks. And I hate those fans who turn on their players, they hounded Petratos even when he was playing great, and he’s not the only one over the years but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay Yes it’s a blight on the the game , I have heard of so called supporters getting their Facebook posts removed by the club after abusing roar players online. Terrible
I don’t agree with clubs/fan groups removing posts just because they’re negative - only if their abusive. I noticed this week twitter allows the original original poster to “hide” comments which BRFC did when someone challenged the awarding of “player of the month” ... personally I thought s/he had a fair point.
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notarobot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 738,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. .... I think that’s called “fandom” or whatever Simon Hill called it this week on twitter What i I like about going to Roar is the friendships made over time, I hate supporting a team playing sh*t but love my fellow sufferers there week in and week out. I don’t mind the occasional fans as not everyone can afford the time or Money to go every week. What i I don’t like is the blow-ins and the plastics who only show for the big games and the finals and easily criticise just for the sake of it. I’d hate to be married to these soulless pricks. And I hate those fans who turn on their players, they hounded Petratos even when he was playing great, and he’s not the only one over the years but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay Yes it’s a blight on the the game , I have heard of so called supporters getting their Facebook posts removed by the club after abusing roar players online. Terrible
I don’t agree with clubs/fan groups removing posts just because they’re negative - only if their abusive. I noticed this week twitter allows the original original poster to “hide” comments which BRFC did when someone challenged the awarding of “player of the month” ... personally I thought s/he had a fair point. There is big difference between abuse and negativity posts rarely If ever get removed for the later
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JonoMV
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K,
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+xI dont think there is much point talking about comparisons with League one,because we dont have a team of League One players or even close to it. A.Holloway played a few seasons in League One (but barely a full game ever)- he plays part time for the Roar. Brad Inman played the last two seasons regularly in League One and is again in and out of the team. O'Shay last season played League two.Before that League One.He is a regular Roar player. M.Gilesphey played the last two seasons in League Two. T.Aldred played in the Scottish Premiership the last two seasons.Before that League One and League Two. The rest of the players are ROD and Aussies. So comparing the team to a League One standard makes no sense.Only two players came directly from League One and niether play regularly. The three visa players playing regularly came from League Two , Scotland and sometime long ago , ROD came from Indonseia,Brunei and League Two.That was his last three years before joining CCM. So currently there are no League One players playing full games for the Roar.The regular Visa players are League 2 -2 players.One for Scotland and One from Newcastle/CCM/Brunei/League Two.Thats their form before coming here. Add in the best Aussie players---Mauk -A season injured,AON---- CCM before that two years part time in League One.A bunch of youngsters and Neville who sat out most of last year in Perth. Does anyone not think that recruitment was a problem? There is just no quality. This has been my argument from day one regarding recruitment. This season was there for the taking as I found recruitment poor across the majority of the competition. It would have been embarrassing for the competition had Brisbane carved up with players who have barely had any top football experience. That is what you sort of want from a visa player. Look at Brisbane's visa players under Aloisi (2016-19, two 3rd place finishes, 1 6th, and the terrible season last year) They were not amazing or anything, there were the usual flops but the CV's of these guys are so far ahead of the current lot it is not funny. Kristensen - Career player for Copenhagen, bulk UCL experience, he came to Australia from the Dutch top flight where he had over 40 starts in the previous two seasons. Corona - Season prior to coming to the Roar he made 23 starts (31 appearances) in La Liga and spent the majority of his career as a rotation la liga player, or regular starter in the Segunda Division Papadopoulous - Came from being a regular starter in J League, had a career for Olympiacos where he started in 20 UCL games and was playing knockout football Bauthéac - Pure joy watching this hot head, came from Ligue 1 where he was a regular starter for six consecutive seasons, always felt he would've been better at another team. Arana - Rotation player in the Second division of Spain, was a regular starter in the La Liga in 2011-12 Maccarone - Bit old when he came but he came from the Serie A where he was a regular starter until the season prior to coming to the Roar (Used as rotation in his final Serie A seasons) Hervas - Rotation player in Segunda Division Spain, was a flop for the Roar Mikkelsen - Rotation player in the Danish top flight. I think if Fowler had Bautheac this season (even a Corona/Kristensen when they first came in) Brisbane would have had a few more wins on the board.
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JonoMV
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol
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crimsoncrusoe
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Waz,You are right in saying Brisbane is not that far from most of the team when it come to performances.But that really is the whole point.
The difference between us beating these other teams most of the time and losing or drawing courageously is the top quality players in each team.
Our best players are ROD,JOS,Mauk,Aldred.......JOS has probably performed the best in attack out of those players.But is not an all round player.He doesnt control play,nor is he a renowned defender.What are his assists and goals scored stats?
If you go through the squads of other teams,you can find three or four players who are all higher quality than at Roar.Even CCM..Gordan,De Silva ,Oar,Silvera.Not that they are great.
Our quality team of goers beating the the teams of individual quality hasnt materialsied as we had hoped.
The real issue now is where to from here.The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous.
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Waz
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+xWaz,You are right in saying Brisbane is not that far from most of the team when it come to performances.But that really is the whole point. The difference between us beating these other teams most of the time and losing or drawing courageously is the top quality players in each team. Our best players are ROD,JOS,Mauk,Aldred.......JOS has probably performed the best in attack out of those players.But is not an all round player.He doesnt control play,nor is he a renowned defender.What are his assists and goals scored stats? If you go through the squads of other teams,you can find three or four players who are all higher quality than at Roar.Even CCM..Gordan,De Silva ,Oar,Silvera.Not that they are great. Our quality team of goers beating the the teams of individual quality hasnt materialsied as we had hoped. The real issue now is where to from here.The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous. I think there’s a fundamental issue to sort out - why is the current crop of players underperforming? Is it Fowler, certain individuals, tactics?? If thats sorted theres a team here that can challenge for third place and even get to the final, although City and SFC will likely be a class above come finals. Then for next season there’s space to add 7 new players including 2 marquees. If Roar can secure their youth players, shed some of the underperforming players and bring in a 9 and 10 say, they’ll have a stable platform to build a championship challenger side. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Holloway return to the UK at Christmas, I don’t think he’s settled in to Australia and they could relegate a couple of players back to NPL so there is room to bring 2-3 players in next month if they can find them, and they know what they want.
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Keeper66
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+xWaz,You are right in saying Brisbane is not that far from most of the team when it come to performances.But that really is the whole point. The difference between us beating these other teams most of the time and losing or drawing courageously is the top quality players in each team. Our best players are ROD,JOS,Mauk,Aldred.......JOS has probably performed the best in attack out of those players.But is not an all round player.He doesnt control play,nor is he a renowned defender.What are his assists and goals scored stats? If you go through the squads of other teams,you can find three or four players who are all higher quality than at Roar.Even CCM..Gordan,De Silva ,Oar,Silvera.Not that they are great. Our quality team of goers beating the the teams of individual quality hasnt materialsied as we had hoped. The real issue now is where to from here.The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous. That's right, we don't have anyone who can be considered to be close to a mid-top or above level player (in A League standards). For ROD and Aldred to be considered as in our top 4 players exemplifies this. I don't think there is any current Roar player who would be an automatic choice at any other A League club currently, except maybe O'Shea at CCM.
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aok
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :)
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sirhcdobo
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+x+xWaz,You are right in saying Brisbane is not that far from most of the team when it come to performances.But that really is the whole point. The difference between us beating these other teams most of the time and losing or drawing courageously is the top quality players in each team. Our best players are ROD,JOS,Mauk,Aldred.......JOS has probably performed the best in attack out of those players.But is not an all round player.He doesnt control play,nor is he a renowned defender.What are his assists and goals scored stats? If you go through the squads of other teams,you can find three or four players who are all higher quality than at Roar.Even CCM..Gordan,De Silva ,Oar,Silvera.Not that they are great. Our quality team of goers beating the the teams of individual quality hasnt materialsied as we had hoped. The real issue now is where to from here.The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous. I think there’s a fundamental issue to sort out - why is the current crop of players underperforming? Is it Fowler, certain individuals, tactics?? If thats sorted theres a team here that can challenge for third place and even get to the final, although City and SFC will likely be a class above come finals. Then for next season there’s space to add 7 new players including 2 marquees. If Roar can secure their youth players, shed some of the underperforming players and bring in a 9 and 10 say, they’ll have a stable platform to build a championship challenger side. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Holloway return to the UK at Christmas, I don’t think he’s settled in to Australia and they could relegate a couple of players back to NPL so there is room to bring 2-3 players in next month if they can find them, and they know what they want. That's the thing, i dont think most of them are under-performing, at least not by much. It looks like most of the players are playing at their average level. We were all hoping that they could play at their 100% or create partnerships that made the sum better than the parts but that is not happening. I cant look at any player and say they are under performing just not performing above expectations
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Mr B
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh:
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aok
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh: Why torment the old fella? Did he beat you too much/not enough when you were younger? :)
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
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+x+x+xWaz,You are right in saying Brisbane is not that far from most of the team when it come to performances.But that really is the whole point. The difference between us beating these other teams most of the time and losing or drawing courageously is the top quality players in each team. Our best players are ROD,JOS,Mauk,Aldred.......JOS has probably performed the best in attack out of those players.But is not an all round player.He doesnt control play,nor is he a renowned defender.What are his assists and goals scored stats? If you go through the squads of other teams,you can find three or four players who are all higher quality than at Roar.Even CCM..Gordan,De Silva ,Oar,Silvera.Not that they are great. Our quality team of goers beating the the teams of individual quality hasnt materialsied as we had hoped. The real issue now is where to from here.The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous. I think there’s a fundamental issue to sort out - why is the current crop of players underperforming? Is it Fowler, certain individuals, tactics?? If thats sorted theres a team here that can challenge for third place and even get to the final, although City and SFC will likely be a class above come finals. Then for next season there’s space to add 7 new players including 2 marquees. If Roar can secure their youth players, shed some of the underperforming players and bring in a 9 and 10 say, they’ll have a stable platform to build a championship challenger side. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Holloway return to the UK at Christmas, I don’t think he’s settled in to Australia and they could relegate a couple of players back to NPL so there is room to bring 2-3 players in next month if they can find them, and they know what they want. That's the thing, i dont think most of them are under-performing, at least not by much. It looks like most of the players are playing at their average level. We were all hoping that they could play at their 100% or create partnerships that made the sum better than the parts but that is not happening. I cant look at any player and say they are under performing just not performing above expectations 100%.
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Mr B
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh: Why torment the old fella? Did he beat you too much/not enough when you were younger? :) Probably not enough :laugh: I'm just trying to lower his blood pressure, I tell him roar are not worth the stress ;)
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh: And so he should - that’s what Support is about even allowing for the odd rant. Youre Dad can pick a striker then, DWH is pretty poor just loved by the Internet crowd who presumably don’t watch games or are really NRL fans waiting for the season to start up.
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Mr B
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 1
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh: And so he should - that’s what Support is about even allowing for the odd rant. Youre Dad can pick a striker then, DWH is pretty poor just loved by the Internet crowd who presumably don’t watch games or are really NRL fans waiting for the season to start up. Nah just hates him, nothing to do with his skill, he also hated Mitch Nichols and Robbie Kruse.
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Mr B
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 1
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+xThe real issue now is where to from here. The idea we just tough it out with the same players for two years is horrendous. Indeed
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place. Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits: Neville - average/lower than average A League defender Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half). Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. McGing - squad player at best O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him. Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player. ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals) O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams. Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though. Depressing because it's accurate. Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic I disagree with that. I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. Its not true. What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem. I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind). I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ... So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in. I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team. I wasn’t suggesting you were making that assertion, but plenty have. Fowler had a plan with his visa players - typically they’d been through a good Academy, showed potential at a young age playing Intl Rep football, but all failed to meet that potential dropping away to liwer league football. It was a nice plan not forgetting two of them have spent a combined 6 years in EPL squads - so on paper a cunning plan. But its not delivering. Yet anyway. keep wasting your time and money with a lost cause. but generally I love wasting my time and money on a lost cause. It’s actually okay That's what my father does, and given I live in Brisbane, our one way of bonding is at Suncorp. I told him not to buy season tickets this season but he is a loyal supporter lol At least you and your Dad can console each other this season. Not a bright start for either team :) My old man keeps on defending roar, loyal as they come while I keep slagging them while watching the game together, he is slowly coming to my side though. He hates Wenzell Halls for some reason while praising Odonovan :laugh: And so he should - that’s what Support is about even allowing for the odd rant. Youre Dad can pick a striker then, DWH is pretty poor just loved by the Internet crowd who presumably don’t watch games or are really NRL fans waiting for the season to start up. Nah just hates him, nothing to do with his skill, he also hated Mitch Nichols and Robbie Kruse. Ahh, okay ... what did he think of Dimi 👀
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