I’m really pleased you like your own posts so much, Paddles. 

On Fox Sports, I heard them say NZ have outperformed us on the Subcontinent.

Whereas we've last to all of SL, Pak, India and Bangladesh, the Kiwis have beaten Pakistan in the UAE - at least. You might be able to add Bangla and SL too.

It did too. 

Southee also bowled some effective short stuff.

It didn't win the game though.

I watched a Test at Dunedin a few years ago against Oz and they drew about 8 000 fans per day. 

The Test against Oz was a big deal.

With De Grandhomme being able to bowl effortlessly for so many tight overs, NZ could bowl Ferguson in a few short three over spells.

Probably four to five of these spells in a day in a day Ferguson could sustain his express pace.

So pre series....

I questioned Raval and Santner, after 1 test, NZ's former batting coach says this...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12294469

Former Black Caps batting coach Craig McMillan said it would be "cruel" to keep picking opener Jeet Raval against Australia.The out-of-form Raval was a disaster in the first test in Perth, as Australia won the opening encounter by a mammoth margin.The action shifts to Melbourne next week, for the Boxing Day test, and McMillan says Tom Blundell must replace Raval, while finger spinner Mitchell Santner should also be axed."It's pretty obvious, the opening batting conundrum at the top and the spinner, they're the two who have to be sorted and changes have to be made," McMillan told Radio Sport Breakfast.ADVERTISEMENT
Advertise with NZME."You drop him because playing him again would be cruel. It would actually be silly. Tom Blundell is the batting cover okay. He's covering positions one to six."In an ideal world when you are touring Australia you like to have a reserve opening batsman. New Zealand haven't done that and probably don't have many options in terms of that at the moment."Will Young is out injured and not playing. He would have been the obvious person to fill that gap."Tom Blundell has the skill set that can succeed at the top. He plays fast bowling well; he's a good back foot player."The question for me is would you lose anything by playing him in this next test match? The answer to that is a very simple no so he has to play."And the great thing about Tom Blundell is he would be expecting to play and he would want that opportunity to play in the Boxing Day test."He has all the qualities you want. He actually prefers facing bowling the quicker it gets."He has a great back foot game, plays horizontal bat shots so he has the skill set to deal with the Australian bowlers."ADVERTISEMENTAdvertise with NZME.McMillan said in an ideal world, Blundell - whose two tests were as a wicketkeeper - would not be opening but a pragmatic selection change could bring a big gain."It might be a stop gap for two test matches but it's an opportunity for someone else and you never know what might happen," said former test batsman McMillan.Former test batsman McMillan said Raval should still be dropped even if he scored a lot of runs in the two day game before the second test."If Raval goes out and score runs against a very weak Victorian opposition it doesn't change anything for me," he said."I would give an opportunity to Blundell in that game and then play him in the final two test matches."A straight swap – you can't be changing two or three other positions. Yes, they missed out in that first test but their records over a period of time at numbers four, five six have been so good."McMillan said New Zealand had quality red ball spinners, naming leggie Todd Astle and the orthodox left armer Ajaz Patel.Astle had over 330 first class wickets including 13 five and two ten wicket hauls. Patel had 233 first class wickets, with 18 five wicket bags and three 10 wicket hauls.READ MORE:
• Cricket: Black Caps coach Gary Stead says key team changes are possible
• Cricket: Black Caps tactics in first test defeat in Perth raise 'bodyline' comparisons
• Cricket: Black Caps star Lockie Ferguson flies home as Trent Boult returns to fold
• Any Given Monday: The reason why the Black Caps can beat Australia - but Perth test could be an ambush"And we're picking a guy whose best is three for 20. You work that out," he said of Santner."Mitch did well, he scored that 100, got three-for against England, but at number eight your job has to be taking wickets."(Australian spinner) Nathan Lyon took six wickets in that (Perth) test match. It took a lot of pressure off (Mitchell) Starc and (Pat) Cummins."We need to take some pressure off Neil Wagner and Tim Southee who were outstanding after we lost Lockie Ferguson."The spinner has to be able to pick up three, four, five wickets."[/quote]

What do I know about cricket? lol. But its not Patel, Sommerville is our best, then Patel, then Astle, then Santer... in 4th...

Who called this before the series started? Yeah, I did. And several more kiwi fans...

LOL. Are you mistaken or lying? 

NZ has NEVER played Australia in a test in DUNEDIN ever... that i can find... :) Lol at a few years ago... I MEAN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aus were last here 2015/16 and played basin and chch, before that, then a decade ago before now, look the big 3 bar England dont come here often... dont pretend like you do. You like money. Not recipiprocity... We know this. India are 7 years since last here. England are over 4 years to host us over there. And you, Aus, and over 8 years to tour here on the ftp and then some. It is what it is. WE dont have cricket money. It's that simple.

Dec cricket aint a  big deal here. Ever. And cricket aint a big deal here ever. Neither. Wake up and stop being so mistaken.

NZ has NEVER EVER EVER EVER played Australia in a test in Dundein at any ground in Dunedin EVER>>>> Not in the history of cricket.

I mean ever...


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/ground/58827.html?class=1;template=results;type=aggregate



http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/ground/58822.html?class=1;template=results;type=aggregate

Sorry Dec, you're wrong. Firmly so. Not even remotely close to being right.

And Dec, if yuou remotely think test cricket here behind a pay wall is a big deal, you're so wrong its not funny. Test cricket is behind, rugby, rugby league, sailing, rowing and basketball.netball for the girls. In that order :)

Test cricket here is tiny. We win rugby, sailing, rowing and netball. We dont care about Indian cricket. That's the reality. I dont even care if you accept this, sailing will make this country a fortune next americas cup we host. Cricket never will. Ever. We have never hosted an ICC final cos we dont care about cricket enough... :)

The reality every cricket fan knows, but Australians struggle with, 

is where cricket is big.. 

like Pak - Aus lost, 

like India, Aus lost,

Like Sl, Aus lost,

Like Bangaldesh, Aus drew after losing a test,

is that SA, Eng, NZ are not mainstream cricket nations, we have footballs... and sailing, and other sports...

Yet SA still won home and away - god bless 'em....

Eng's sport - soccer - clearly, then ruigby - then golf and tennis - then cricket....

SA - rugby and soccer,

TOnga, Samoa and Fiji, rugby and rugby league...

Deal with it boys and girls, its the truth... :)

^
Seemed to be "dealt with" just fine at Optus stadium only a few days ago, but thanks for the concern. :laugh:

I must be mistaken. 

Could it have been Christchurch? 

There was no big stand behind one of the ends of the pitch. 

The crowds were decent. 

Correct DC. We wore some body blows in Perth.. but Paddles men only bowl at 125-130ks. Our three if they include Pattinson can crank it up to 145- 150ks. So if those Kiwis want a return to Bodyline then we are more than equipped and happy to oblige them. 

Siddle has has bowled tightly, but not with great penetration. 
DC that in a nutshell is the story of Siddle's career. Has a heart as big as himself and will run in all day, tie up an end. But his ability to build pressure like some other seaming greats is just not part of his make up. But I can see why Langer picked him as he wants "his presence around the playing group". I am voting for Pattinson as the third bowler. Starc, Cummins and Patto..here is some serious fire power if NZ want a bouncer war. I like your idea of Neser at #7. Question is will CA think Paine can hold down a specialist batting spot.

Our bowlers knocked them over cheaply in both innings while being a bowler short, so I don't think they’ll see any need for a “bouncer war”. Out of their 20 wickets, only one of them managed a half century. Thats a comprehensive drubbing. 

I actually think the kiwis wasted the conditions under lights on the first day with this tactic. Let them send down those 120 something bouncers. They've used this tactic the last couple of times we've played them, without much success. Why change a winning formula lol.

Langer did float the possibility of going into Melbourne with five bowlers, which seems strange. That would mean Head out, with (probably) both Siddle and Pattinson in. Sounds like he's not expecting a very bowler friendly wicket. Not sure about Siddle even being in the squad. It's not going to be pom conditions. He's been a great workhorse for us, but his best days are well and truly behind him now surely.

Paine isn't batting well enough for a number 6 spot.

However, with Neser at 7, and particularly a combo of Cummins Starc and Patto at 8, 9 and 10, that is considerable batting depth that compensates for Paine, and probably Neser, not being good enough for 6 and 7. 

I'm always worried about going into any Test with three pace bowlers and a spinner, in case one of the pace bowlers gets injured, particularly on flat pitches.

I've also seen Neser bowl effectively quite a bit at Bellerive Oval.

Don't underestimate the Kiwi batting, it has been better than ours in recent tines home and away.

Nicholls and Latham have been ranked in the top  10 batters in the world recently.

Taylor has Test average of 48 over a long career.

Williamson is one of the best batters in the world.

With our batting Smith is out of form. Labu and Warmer are in form for the current summer. Wade, Head and Burns are not established.

Agree about Siddle. 

CA shud also be worried going into a game with only four bowlers after losing Josh last match and leaving us depleted. Just as well we lost him when we were well ahead in the game. CA will never consider tail end runs over a specialist #6 DC. I want Alex Carey to bat #6 when he replaces Tim. This opens up the option for another batsman or bowler.. but they insist on a so called all rounder at #6 over a specialist bat.

No underestimating going on. They were bundled out very cheaply twice on a lively pitch. They would have needed a third innings just to score as many as our first. No need to change things too much, certainly no need for a bouncer war.

If Melbourne is flat they'll probably score, but then their bowlers are unlikely to enjoy that as much. 130 kph with no movement could be tough work. 

That's if it is flat, they're claiming it will be an "entertaining" pitch. Not sure MCG pitch has ever been that.

We played SL nearly 4 years ago and have had a couple of major clean outs since then. More recently we were one each with all three results possible going into the 4th match in India. When they start doing things like that, winning in India, I'll start believing the hype. The Berlin Wall was still up when they last won a match in India.

I also don't worry too much about our recent annus horibilis where we were never going to do much regardless.

The claim they are better in (choose country) is about as meaningless as claiming they are better on the moon lol. 

If they really are as good as the skyting they shouldn't have any trouble at all with us, and shouldn't have lost the first match. 

Will see how they go from here on in.

Les Burdett the newly annointed "legendary pitch whisperer" by the press says....
You'll have a pitch that has more life in it than in years gone by and that it will also make for an entertaining contest 

sounds good.

Good points fs.

The question has to be asked, is our current lot any better than 4 years ago in SL and on the Subcontinent? 

I'm not sure there has been a change in wickets and the development  of cricketers in Australia in that time.

Are we observing in the least three tests in Australia this summer, the normal success on home pitches? 

Hope Les is right, Baggers.

I like the all rounder type at 6 as opposed to 4 specialist bowlers.

That SL series led into the SA series lost at home by Aus, and you had a clean out, that saw Voges dropped, and Burns dropped. Burns is back now. The seam attack is stronger now with Cummins, but its more or less a similar team. Australia's biggest fall from grace in the sub continent, was not getting swept by SL, nor losing in the UAE back to back times now, it was probably losing a test to Bangladesh. That sent tongues wagging around the world tbh.  I have said before, Australia's last away series victory was 2015/16, and its last series win in Asia was 2011. If these are not causes for concern, I do not know what is. The home record is fair, losing only to India and SA, the latter now being 3 times in a row, though. A new rivalry building perhaps?

People should not be concerned comparing the Australian team with NZ on the other hand, who has drawn its last two series in SL, drawn and beaten Pakistan in the UAE, never lost a test to Bangladesh and also been hammered by India away, but beaten them at home. NZ's success in Asia comes down to simply KW and Latham murdering spin attacks. They average highly against spin, more so than they do against seam. Why Latham is then opening the batting, is quite unfortunate for him. Sommerville and Patel have only been around a year, but success in SL and UAE has been shouldered with their spin bowling, they are yet to play in India.

The current NZ side, while one of the better ones I have supported, is far from a complete team. Basing anything as against them is not the strongest foundation. It lacks a SENA spinner, needs an opening batsman replacement, and is a reserve seamer light at the moment - with Henry and Ferg not quite upto high hopes. Whether Nicholls is the real deal, or will be replaced with Conway next year is also up for later debate.

India the best at home.... and doing better away than everyone else...

SENA is a joke in Asia, but England and NZ are doing the best in Asia right now. Cos Aus lose a test to Bangaldesh, and Safrica lose to SL like Aus losing to SA at home (not quite true - Aus in Sl was the worst thrashing Aus has ever suffered possibly in the entire history of cricket - incl bodyline). NZ draw away with SL again and beat Pak. Aus and SA lose to Pak. Eng lose to Pak.

It is that simple....

Aus lose at home to India and SA. NZ lose at home to Aus and SA. Eng lose at home.... to noone.... SA lose at home to SL... INdia lose at home to noo:): Pak dont beat anyone away... They like the Aus of Asia... No offence :)

India is the best. Deal with it. Even fi they run from Pak. And they do... Cos Pak knows more than anyone else how to win in India. But globally. Its their game. We're all just pawns in it now... IPL... :)

Of course we are better on home tracks. Most good teams are. 

Our team is very different (and all round better) than 4 yrs ago in Sri Lanka when we had players like Voges, M Marsh, S Marsh, Henriques, Holland, Neville (and Khawaja).

Our first big away series after the clean out from that match against the Saffers was a 4 match series in India. You don't get to be 1 all going into the final match against them without being good in those conditions (as the kiwis found out when they lost 3 nil). A drawn series in Bangladesh away only puts us level with the Saffers, India and England. They were no easy beats in Bangladesh at the time.

We were going ok until a certain sand paper saga sent us backwards. Now hopefully we are on the way up again.

We were going ok until a certain sand paper saga sent us backwards. Now hopefully we are on the way up again.
Did it what. Like a bolt of litening was sent thru Aussie cricket. We are on way up again.. but for mine we still have a few weak links in out batting lineup at #2, #5  and specially #6. Burns is still inconsistent but his technique is more solid than in past. Wade will battle but needs a score, Head seems incapable of converting good starts with brain fades. If these three are replaced CA needs to be picking not only good players of pace but also spin for when we tour the sub continent.

Well Aus actually have a chance to redeem the last won in Asia 2011 in Bangladesh soon- who are in an absolute rabble now. Shakib is suspended, and the whole team is in crisis and threatened walks outs after their Domestic Pro t20 turned to a shambles,  they managed to lose at home to Afghanistan. Who thrashed them. When they still had Shakib. Curiously, Bangladesh has never beaten India, South Africa, Afghanistan, NZ, or Pakistan in a test match.

But given almost half the countries now more less are now from Asia (Pak, SL, Indi, Ban, Afg), its pretty much a requirement to play sub continental conditions well. Just as India have put together a formidable seam attack, teams do need a spin attack for Asia. England put together a very interesting team in SL last year, which had great success. Then went and got smashed by the West Indies in seaming and bouncey conditions. 

Just looking back on that NZ in India series, it was a pretty awful NZ team sent there tbh. Guptill still opening, Ronchi played all 3 tests as a batsman due to injuries, Sodhi, Craig and Jeetan Patel were the spinners with Santner. Southee missed the whole series, with Henry playing, even Neesham played a test. And yet, there is still a core group there that NZ has had since 2012, KW, Taylor, Boult, Wagner, Watling, Latham - the 'old firm'. But yeah, anyone comparing their team to NZ as a foundational basis is barking up the wrong tree. NZ is far from a complete team. But we scrap hard in Asia, not losing away to Pakistan in - well a long time. In fact - NZ might just be the only nation to not lose a series ever in the UAE and actually win one too (admittedly India has never played there). A big change from the days when Pakistan used to turn up here in the 90's and 00's and beat us for fun. 

But I do think world cricket is going to start to face the inevitable soon. India, with all its wealth, resources, population and total love for the game of cricket, will start to pull away now. Noone is going to beat them in India when they refuse to play Pakistan. SL, Bangla, Afg tour, they get met with a bouncy seamer track. Sena turn up, they get greeted with a dustbowl or a low road that takes turn late. 

With their wealth and power, they have bought the best coaches, think Lillee, think McGrath, and set up their pace academies. And now they are producing seamers of very high quality like BK, like Bumrah, like Shami... Even their fielding is no longer horrid. With Pakistan now easily left behind by India raising their standards by a mile. Their season goes about 9 months of the year, the IPL gives massive exposure to some of the best foreign talent around. They have the most A tours, home and away, with the England team touring away more than it plays at home. They have multiple structured FC competitions to keep raising the standards of play. And India want to be the best. They want to the AB's of the sport. 

India has become the benchmark in world cricket. And their player depth, for seamers, for spinners, and their famous batsmen is just unrivalled. The number of intl quality batsmen they have is extraordinary. They're not worried about losing at home, they're now trying to win away. And I think these away wins will start to happen more and more with Kohli and Bumrah leading the charge.

Yeah, agree. We are a couple of batsmen and another good spinner short of a team that can reasonably be expected to perform well anywhere. They're not mugs though, and putting much store in recent performances after the sandpaper fiasco, as some seem to enjoy doing, might be unrealistic.

Burns is a stopgap but is usually ok in Aus. Hoping someone like Renshaw will get back into form again (plenty of time he's still young). We have any number of young hopefuls for the lower order. At the moment Wade looks ok (needs some runs soon though) and Head has all the potential in the world, usually gets set then gets himself out.

This is the best our middle order has looked in a long time and they're good players of spin.

Will be interesting to see if Smith goes the S Waugh route of putting the hookshot away, or the Ponting in decline route of playing at everything. Or somewhere in between. He is going to get peppered for sure. He hasn't been bothered by them either, even with Archer at 150 he was playing them ok (except when he wore one). Not as though he's top edging them everywhere like Ponting did, he's just hitting them straight to the field. Hope he puts the shot away.