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Butler99
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+x+x+xJust randomly saying things like 'question everything' does not make for critical thinking. And following it up with posting links to completely bogus sources just makes it even more ludicrous. That Twain comment is so apt and applicable to the readership of that trustworthy news service - the Lynwood Times. The Vax never stopped transmission The vaccines did stop transmission up until the advent of omicron. To say the public were duped is disingenuous. Did STOP transmission????? Hahahahahaha. It never did. There is no data or stats to prove that. Pfizer said they never even tested for transmission. Happy to be proven wrong.
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Butler99
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+xthe 'question everything' comment is purely a reference to shared thinking (or lack of) between people who believe that positioning and googling is the answer instead of opening a book or getting an education (or hell, even speaking to an expert in their field). 'Opening your eyes' is not looking up stuff online As for mandates - the world has moved on. You can't tell me what I implied. Let me explain it to you. Open your eyes - read the literature and stats out there. Ask questions - are the mandates justified ? Am I really saving granny taking this Vax? I'm young fit and healthy, do I need the Vax,? Happy I can help spell it out for you.
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+xJust randomly saying things like 'question everything' does not make for critical thinking. And following it up with posting links to completely bogus sources just makes it even more ludicrous. That Twain comment is so apt and applicable to the readership of that trustworthy news service - the Lynwood Times. The Vax never stopped transmission The vaccines did stop transmission up until the advent of omicron. To say the public were duped is disingenuous.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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tsf
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the 'question everything' comment is purely a reference to shared thinking (or lack of) between people who believe that positioning and googling is the answer instead of opening a book or getting an education (or hell, even speaking to an expert in their field).
'Opening your eyes' is not looking up stuff online
As for mandates - the world has moved on.
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Butler99
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+xJust randomly saying things like 'question everything' does not make for critical thinking. And following it up with posting links to completely bogus sources just makes it even more ludicrous.
I didn't say "question everything" I said "if only more people just opened their eyes and asked questions." Obviously pertaining to the article I posted 9 months ago. All you needed to do was open your eyes and read it. " The other justification for mandates had been that the vaccinated don’t transmit the virus.Most of us had presumed, when we got our first doses, that we couldn’t pass the virus on to others. Public statements repeatedly praised people for “doing your part to stop the spread.” But in August, CDC director Rochelle Walensky told CNN, when asked why the vaccinated must wear masks, “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta; with regard to severe illness and death, they prevent it. But what they can’t do any more is prevent transmission.” In fact, the original randomized clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna did not test if the vaccines stop transmission."
Bold part now admitted by Pfizer.
As I said, NO justification for mandates.
Surely you can accept that now?
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Butler99
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+xJust randomly saying things like 'question everything' does not make for critical thinking. And following it up with posting links to completely bogus sources just makes it even more ludicrous. That Twain comment is so apt and applicable to the readership of that trustworthy news service - the Lynwood Times. Well the ones that questioned the rhetoric around getting vaccinated to protect grandma and grandpa were right to do so. The Vax never stopped transmission. Mandates were unjustified. Unfortunately that is the truth. There were plenty of reports out there stating this over the year. I posted this one 9 months ago when segregation was being implemented across the country. Yet the mob were demanding the unvaxxed to be banished from society. https://web.archive.org/web/20220122164242/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-vaccines-are-a-tool-not-a-silver-bullet-if-wed-allowed-more-scientific/Perhaps this proverb is apt?? 'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'
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moops
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+x+x+x+xFurther in the article. The Moderna report to the FDA on Dec. 17, 2020, confirmed “there were no deaths due to COVID-19 at the time of the interim analysis to enable an assessment of vaccine efficacy against death due to COVID-19.” Moderna followed about 30,000 people. When asked by the British Medical Journal, why the trial had not been designed to assess if the vaccine could prevent hospitalization and death, Moderna answered: “You would need a trial that is either 5 or 10 times larger or you’d need a trial that is 5-10 times longer to collect those events.” In the Pfizer study of 38,000 people, not a single person in the placebo or the vaccine group died of COVID. By publication date, only one person had died of COVID in the Moderna study. To state it clearly: One person out of about 70,000 in the combined studies of Pfizer and Moderna actually died of COVID. In the real world, at the time, about 60 per cent of COVID deaths were in people over 75 years of age. But only 4.4 per cent of that age group were in the Pfizer study. The sample chosen was not appropriate to answer the public’s most pressing question: Could the vaccines save lives? Cracking article, below was really interesting in light of vaccine mandates being pushed here: The second finding was more dramatic:, “We also observed negative VE against Omicron among those who had received 2 doses compared to unvaccinated individuals.” Translation: Negative VE means that the vaccinated got more infections than the unvaccinated. That “negative finding” they noted, had already been observed elsewhere. “In the Danish study, there was no significant protection against Omicron infection beyond 31 days” after the second dose of the Pfizer. The Danes also found significant negative VE estimates 91-150 days after the second dose.” The Danish study showed those vaccinated with the Pfizer had a 76.5 per cent greater chance of getting infected than unvaccinated people. With the Moderna, the vaccinated had a 36.7 per cent greater chance of getting infected than the unvaccinated after 90 days. There is no justification for vaccine mandates. No justification for vaccine passports. No justification for people to be scared of the unvaccinated. Totally irrational fears that parts of the population has fallen for. https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2022/10/11/covid-transmission-221011/As mentioned. No justification for mandates at all. Majority of western populations have had the wool pulled over their eyes. Amazing. People taking the moral high ground and getting quadrupled baddest to save others??? A total sham. What else haven't they explained clearly?? Climate change. https://journals.ametsoc.org/configurable/content/journals$002fclim$002f32$002f12$002fjcli-d-18-0607.1.xml?t:ac=journals%24002fclim%24002f32%24002f12%24002fjcli-d-18-0607.1.xmlhttps://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/gistemp-a-human-view/
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tsf
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Just randomly saying things like 'question everything' does not make for critical thinking. And following it up with posting links to completely bogus sources just makes it even more ludicrous.
That Twain comment is so apt and applicable to the readership of that trustworthy news service - the Lynwood Times.
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Butler99
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"It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.”
– Mark Twain.
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Butler99
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+xExcellent article for the critical thinkers out there. (Not tsf or cesspool) In December, 2020, the new mRNA vaccines were rolled out, and were, according to the randomized clinical trials, 95 per cent (Pfizer) and 94.5 per cent (Moderna) efficacious in stopping infection. Physician-scientist Eric Topol, head of Scripps Labs, said these vaccines “will go down in history as one of science and medical research’s greatest achievements.”But by the time summer 2021 arrived, real world experience contradicted Mr. Bourla’s and Dr. Sahin’s claims of potency at six months, no transmission by the vaccinated, and imminent herd immunity. Pfizer’s Mr. Bourla, in his February interview, had called Israel “the world’s lab,” because it was vaccinated with the Pfizer extensively and several months ahead of other countries, giving the world a glimpse of its future. But when Israeli public health released its six-month data, they showed that vaccine effectiveness had dropped to 39 per cent, and Delta was surging. (The FDA had originally said it would not approve a vaccine less than 50-per-cent effective.) A Mayo clinic study showed that after six months, protection granted by the two Pfizer doses dropped from the original 95 per cent to 42 per cent. Another Israeli study showed it had dropped to 16 per cent. That huge discrepancy couldn’t be attributed just to the new variant, Delta, because protection was already fading at five months for the earlier variants too.
So why such a discrepancy? The original studies were clinical trials. The Pfizer study followed about 38,000 people without COVID who were divided in two groups – half got the vaccine, and half a placebo. The investigators asked the question: could the vaccines prevent symptomatic cases of COVID-19? But, as Peter Doshi, senior editor at the British Medical Journal, warned, “None of the trials currently under way are designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, use of intensive care, or deaths.” He explained that, “Because most people with symptomatic COVID-19 experience only mild symptoms, even trials involving 30,000 or more patients would turn up relatively few cases of severe disease.” Susanne Hodgson of the University of Oxford agreed: “The current [randomized control trials] that are ongoing are … not powered to assess efficacy against hospital admission and death.” Article is Well ahead of its time. " The other justification for mandates had been that the vaccinated don’t transmit the virus.Most of us had presumed, when we got our first doses, that we couldn’t pass the virus on to others. Public statements repeatedly praised people for “doing your part to stop the spread.” But in August, CDC director Rochelle Walensky told CNN, when asked why the vaccinated must wear masks, “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta; with regard to severe illness and death, they prevent it. But what they can’t do any more is prevent transmission.” In fact, the original randomized clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna did not test if the vaccines stop transmission. Now our best hope was that the vaccinated might transmit less than the unvaccinated. Several studies could be interpreted as showing this. But others found the vaccinated likely had equal transmission. One study, conducted in a prison, concluded that the vaccinated prisoners had as much “transmission potential” as the unvaccinated prisoners, adding, “clinicians and public health practitioners should consider vaccinated persons who become infected with SARS-CoV-2 to be no less infectious than unvaccinated persons.” Dr. Cyrille Cohen, head of the immunotherapy lab at Bar-Ilan University, and adviser to the Israeli government on vaccine trials, said that with respect to transmission with Omicron, “we don’t see virtually any difference … between people vaccinated and nonvaccinated,” adding “both get infected with the virus, more or less at the same pace. The rancour that we, the vaccinated, are increasingly directing against the unvaccinated, fuels itself by remaining wilfully oblivious of this later painful truth: we too spread, to ourselves, and to the unvaccinated, as they to us and each other.”
If only more people just opened their eyes and asked questions.
Amazing how society can be duped.
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Butler99
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+x+x+xFurther in the article. The Moderna report to the FDA on Dec. 17, 2020, confirmed “there were no deaths due to COVID-19 at the time of the interim analysis to enable an assessment of vaccine efficacy against death due to COVID-19.” Moderna followed about 30,000 people. When asked by the British Medical Journal, why the trial had not been designed to assess if the vaccine could prevent hospitalization and death, Moderna answered: “You would need a trial that is either 5 or 10 times larger or you’d need a trial that is 5-10 times longer to collect those events.” In the Pfizer study of 38,000 people, not a single person in the placebo or the vaccine group died of COVID. By publication date, only one person had died of COVID in the Moderna study. To state it clearly: One person out of about 70,000 in the combined studies of Pfizer and Moderna actually died of COVID. In the real world, at the time, about 60 per cent of COVID deaths were in people over 75 years of age. But only 4.4 per cent of that age group were in the Pfizer study. The sample chosen was not appropriate to answer the public’s most pressing question: Could the vaccines save lives? Cracking article, below was really interesting in light of vaccine mandates being pushed here: The second finding was more dramatic:, “We also observed negative VE against Omicron among those who had received 2 doses compared to unvaccinated individuals.” Translation: Negative VE means that the vaccinated got more infections than the unvaccinated. That “negative finding” they noted, had already been observed elsewhere. “In the Danish study, there was no significant protection against Omicron infection beyond 31 days” after the second dose of the Pfizer. The Danes also found significant negative VE estimates 91-150 days after the second dose.” The Danish study showed those vaccinated with the Pfizer had a 76.5 per cent greater chance of getting infected than unvaccinated people. With the Moderna, the vaccinated had a 36.7 per cent greater chance of getting infected than the unvaccinated after 90 days. There is no justification for vaccine mandates. No justification for vaccine passports. No justification for people to be scared of the unvaccinated. Totally irrational fears that parts of the population has fallen for. https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2022/10/11/covid-transmission-221011/As mentioned. No justification for mandates at all. Majority of western populations have had the wool pulled over their eyes. Amazing. People taking the moral high ground and getting quadrupled baddest to save others??? A total sham. What else haven't they explained clearly??
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tsf
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After getting back from Europe 1 thing stands out (was in Spain)
Masks are nowhere in public, but everyone - and I mean everyone uses them on transport (Buses etc - they are super strict, literally will not let you on) and flights internally. And tbh nobody gives a crap because it's basic hygiene, and really - who the hell cares?
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Muz
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+xSo Covid isolation periods have been reduced to 5 days effectively rendering them obsolete - but its still illegal for anybody over the age of 8 anywhere in the state of Victoria to use public transport in any way, shape or form without wearing a mask otherwise they get fined 760 days and counting I'm going to stop driving this point home but the bottom line is I was right. Mask laws were never introduced as a point in time measure simply to curb the spread. There was no benchmark for introducing them and no benchmark for removing them. You guys just couldn't see the bigger picture If that's what helps you sleep at night keep telling yourself that.
Member since 2008.
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bluebird2
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So Covid isolation periods have been reduced to 5 days effectively rendering them obsolete - but its still illegal for anybody over the age of 8 anywhere in the state of Victoria to use public transport in any way, shape or form without wearing a mask otherwise they get fined
760 days and counting
I'm going to stop driving this point home but the bottom line is I was right. Mask laws were never introduced as a point in time measure simply to curb the spread. There was no benchmark for introducing them and no benchmark for removing them. You guys just couldn't see the bigger picture
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bluebird2
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Not as bad as health officials who spent the whole winter sensationalising the data just so we can spend our whole lives living behind face masks. Once again doing nothing was just as effective. They are already starting on the next wave predicted around Christmas, and they continue to seek extraordinary powers just to make it a crime to go on a bus without wearing a face mask. Even in states without a state of emergency declaration
There are only 4 countries with over 1 million active cases, 3 of them (Japan, South Korea and Vietnam) have a face mask culture. Dont forget also the virus originated in China. Australia is also going to break 10 million cases soon. If there was any evidence face masks in some situations can curb the numbers it would have been in the long term data sets. Hasnt stopped idiots from trying to argue face masks are responsible for low death rates
Australia is in a situation where our high vaxx numbers mean the regular waves will be manageable without any mandates. The end game we were working towards. The only thing left is to look after hospitals and aged care. Yet self-centered epidemiologists continue to target public transport, schools and supermarkets.
The fact is you can walk away from anti-vaxx idiots. You can't walk away from people in power that sensationalise a pandemic for their own gain
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tsf
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That these people are moronic is obvious, but hows the utter evil selfishness doing this: https://twitter.com/Kon__K/status/1558417196736708610Look at the state of them. Life's absolute losers.
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bluebird2
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OK so while there's still a bit of life in this thread:
It has been 696 consecutive days that it has been a criminal offence to use public transport in Victoria without a mask
Tas and NT have dumped their laws
SA a bit ambiguous as they have laws around passenger transport services (not sure if this includes public transport) despite no state of emergency, and promise of no broader mask mandates. But that was unavoidable when they first thing they did was establish a 6 month restrictions committee
QLD announced that mask mandates will end when their emergency declaration ends tipped to be a few weeks or a couple of months (including hospital and aged care). In other words Public Transport, aged care and hospitals carry the same risk and require the same approach which reinforces my point
No word on WA but they extended their declaration to first week of January
Despite airplanes being safe there are still federal laws in place which will go when all states / territories agree (which we know NSW and Vic never will). Why? Where is the threat? Where is the data supporting this law?
So yeah - definitely no self interest by health officials when it came to masks. Absolutely not. They were implemented to keep hospital numbers under control and no restrictions were going to be in place for a day longer than they needed to
There is a reason why Australia has recorded the 16th total highest number of cases despite being shut for 1 1/2 years. Restrictions were part of a balance that our heavy handed self interested approach was never able to produce. I said at the start its possible to turn a screw so tightly it breaks the foundation that is supposed to support it
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tsf
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+x+x+xHospital admission for heart attacks fell 28 per cent during pandemic That's because of the selfish morons who didnt get vaxxed clogged the joint when they got sick Sorry TSF, I have reported this post to Joyful Penguin. You have no evidence that all unvaxed were selfish or morons so this obviously breaches the guidelines established by the new sheriff. I strike to dismiss - you may have misread my post. I said 'the selfish morons who didn't get vaxxed'. I could be talking about an incredibly small group of morons, and not referencing everyone who did not get vaxxed. My post does not specifically target all the unvaccinated. I also will assess my own costs and submit a request to be reimbursed from the parties involved.
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Muz
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AJF
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+x+xHospital admission for heart attacks fell 28 per cent during pandemic That's because of the selfish morons who didnt get vaxxed clogged the joint when they got sick Sorry TSF, I have reported this post to Joyful Penguin. You have no evidence that all unvaxed were selfish or morons so this obviously breaches the guidelines established by the new sheriff.
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TheSelectFew
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Aww man I'm glad I wasn't on here to deal with this shit show. Oh boy.
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tsf
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+xHospital admission for heart attacks fell 28 per cent during pandemic That's because of the selfish morons who didnt get vaxxed clogged the joint when they got sick
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dirk vanadidas
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Hospital admission for heart attacks fell 28 per cent during pandemic
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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UK national health service just released report that lockdown caused the death of 3000 diabetics. Still at least we didn't kill granny to quote the UK govt message at the time
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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bluebird2
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+x+xhttps://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-vic-post-18000-new-virus-cases/ar-AAXzsuCNSW and Victoria have reported almost 18,000 new COVID-19 infections along with 17 virus-related deaths.
More than 2800 patients are hospitalised with coronavirus nationwide, with over one hundred of them in intensive care. So because case numbers have managed to go down without any restrictions being introduced, sensationlists are now combining Victoria and NSW data together just to make it look like an out of control outbreak. Even combining hospitalisations and intensive care patients at the national level Wow - so national hospital numbers are less than what NSW alone recorded in Dec / Jan. Oh, and about 100 in intensive care nationally when Victoria have 4000 beds Response teams didnt act fast enough and now they can't hide behind the placebo of introducing rubbish restrictions reducing numbers anymore. We knew when we were opening up that we would see waves. Sometimes the numbers go up, and sometimes they go down. We also know that high vaccination numbers mean our hospital systems can cope regardless of where the overall numbers are sitting I'm suprised there are still people who want to panic about this 6 months after it was declared to safe to open up. What a sad life some people are going to have for the next 5-10 years We can debate about masks on public transport or not, but I'd say the vast majority are in the move on camp. Its not that simple when its a criminal offence and comes with a fine There used to be a time where state of emergencies were declared and special powers sought so that cities could be locked down, social caps enforced, businesses regulated, people detained, borders shut etc... Real issues requiring unprecedented power Now health officials are literally riding on long outdated powers just to roll over mask laws for buses, and ramp it up to all indoor places during winter. Something with a speculated 50% success rate against 10% of situations. Its ridiculous South Australia above have the right idea. Write protection for heath and aged care into ongoing legislation. And as hard as it must be for those with vested interests, drop all broader directives for the general public. There just isnt anything to warrant such extreme action As long as there is an emergency declaration and fining of the general public, then this cant be brushed away as a non issue. Either there is a state of disaster that warrants fining and jailing people in the general public as a health risk or there isnt. Nobody should be milking it otherwise
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Burztur
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+xhttps://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-vic-post-18000-new-virus-cases/ar-AAXzsuCNSW and Victoria have reported almost 18,000 new COVID-19 infections along with 17 virus-related deaths.
More than 2800 patients are hospitalised with coronavirus nationwide, with over one hundred of them in intensive care. So because case numbers have managed to go down without any restrictions being introduced, sensationlists are now combining Victoria and NSW data together just to make it look like an out of control outbreak. Even combining hospitalisations and intensive care patients at the national level Wow - so national hospital numbers are less than what NSW alone recorded in Dec / Jan. Oh, and about 100 in intensive care nationally when Victoria have 4000 beds Response teams didnt act fast enough and now they can't hide behind the placebo of introducing rubbish restrictions reducing numbers anymore. We knew when we were opening up that we would see waves. Sometimes the numbers go up, and sometimes they go down. We also know that high vaccination numbers mean our hospital systems can cope regardless of where the overall numbers are sitting I'm suprised there are still people who want to panic about this 6 months after it was declared to safe to open up. What a sad life some people are going to have for the next 5-10 years Agree. People say saying "Ukraine" or "Election" is being a big distraction for COVID. The fact is, yes numbers are relatively high (compared to when we were under lockdown), but it's well below our Dec / Jan figures and seems to be stable and manageable. Everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated/boosted now. People are aware of distancing, with vulnerable groups protected, etc, so it's just a matter of moving on. We can debate about masks on public transport or not, but I'd say the vast majority are in the move on camp.
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bluebird2
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https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-vic-post-18000-new-virus-cases/ar-AAXzsuCNSW and Victoria have reported almost 18,000 new COVID-19 infections along with 17 virus-related deaths.
More than 2800 patients are hospitalised with coronavirus nationwide, with over one hundred of them in intensive care. So because case numbers have managed to go down without any restrictions being introduced, sensationlists are now combining Victoria and NSW data together just to make it look like an out of control outbreak. Even combining hospitalisations and intensive care patients at the national level Wow - so national hospital numbers are less than what NSW alone recorded in Dec / Jan. Oh, and about 100 in intensive care nationally when Victoria have 4000 beds Response teams didnt act fast enough and now they can't hide behind the placebo of introducing rubbish restrictions reducing numbers anymore. We knew when we were opening up that we would see waves. Sometimes the numbers go up, and sometimes they go down. We also know that high vaccination numbers mean our hospital systems can cope regardless of where the overall numbers are sitting I'm suprised there are still people who want to panic about this 6 months after it was declared to safe to open up. What a sad life some people are going to have for the next 5-10 years
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Muz
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bluebird2
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https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/libs-seek-to-cut-sa-covid-19-penalties/ar-AAXlSKGThe South Australian opposition will seek to eliminate jail terms and reduce fines for breaches of COVID-19 regulations among changes to the way the state manages the ongoing pandemic.
Legislation to amend the state's public health laws has gone through parliament's lower house and faces debate this week in the Legislative Council as part of the Labor government's plans to lift SA's Emergency Management Declaration by June 30.
Under the changes, the government will continue to have the power to impose vaccine and mask mandates in hospitals, aged and disability care, and other healthcare settings.
They will also allow rules to be set for virus-positive people and their close contacts.
Breaches could still be subject to a maximum penalty of a two-year jail term or a fine of up to $75,000 for a business or $20,000 for an individual.
But the new arrangements will not provide for the imposition of lockdowns, hospitality restrictions and broader mask mandates So basically if this passes, and "experts" cant argue that supermarkets and buses are healthcare settings, South Australia will be the first state to be led out of rubbish b grade restrictions, and into the new era of the pandemic (which international experts tip to have a minimum of 5 years left). Hope they manage it. Need at least one sane state that the others can look at and learn from
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFinally got the 'rona. Was feeling average, negative RAT, next day feeling worse, positive RAT. 4 days on the couch watching telly and not doing much. The most annoying part of it is I'm wheezy after spending the last 10 or so years asthma free. Same thing happened 15 years ago when I had the flu. Flu was way worse than this though. Take care and get well soon. Anecdotally, a lot of friends recover from the ongoing symptoms in 5-6 weeks. Thanks and that doesn't sound great about being 6 weeks ill. I have to play Over 35s Thursday and ref this weekend and I was planning on doing both. I'll let you know how I go. The 6 weeks is just minor for those people - not 100% but still good enough to move about freely with a lingering cough etc Ended up not playing 35s and withdrew from reffing on Saturday. Still not a million bucks. Shortness of breath being the main one. Scheduled to do reserves line and firsts centre on Tuesday night so fingers crossed. Other than that life goes on normally now I'm out of isolation. Down at the markets today, lunch and schooners at the yacht club on a balmy autumn day. Might apply for my $750 covid payment that the government is giving out. Put it towards my new coffee machine. God love cheap interest rates and my grandkids paying off our debt. Take care and don't worry about the grandkids. Their grandkids will be paying off their debt :P No $750 payment for me. If you have $10k cash in the bank then no cash for you. I don't think they can chase it up, just BS it imo. You deserve a night out lol Probably not but will play by the rules this time.
Member since 2008.
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