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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+xBeen trying to get my head around the whole thing. Definitely don't agree with the MSM getting exclusive insights into the algorithms, however I do feel that Google and Facebook are profiting from their content and should pay something. Yes they provide click throughs but we also know that many people just get a "digest" of their content, read the headline and synopsis in the post and never actually click through. Seems like a fair compromise to: 1. drop the algorithm BS 2. let the media companies and Google/Facebook negotiate deals with each other. Arbitration is fair too if they can't come to agreement, what the amount should be should be evidence based. Both sides are exaggerating their figures. The problem with point 2 is, the smaller independent content creators getting cut out. If we see the revenue pie as being historically owned by the MSM, the advent of the internet has split it 3 ways (MSM, Google/Facebook, independent providers). MSM is just trying to get a bigger slice and I think the little guys would lose out in the end. I get that but MSM produce content that the smaller independent content creators simply can't do because of the amount of resources required to do so. Im talking proper investigative journalism. Agree. MSM has a role, so the question is still, how do you cut the pie? Yep I don't know. I'm pretty sure the answer is not this bill though! Why not? It's from the same government that's handed tens of millions of taxpayer dollars over to Murdoch for "women's sport" even though the government owns two TV networks of their own, you should trust them on this lol It is completely untrue to say that the Murdoch media is the propaganda arm of the Liberal party. Really, the Liberal party is the political arm of the Murdoch empire. (That and big mining as well of course). Here's my question to you. If the Murdoch papers disappeared overnight would you be happy with Google and Facebook being the only providers of news in Australia? (ABC and SBS excepted.)
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+x+x+xBeen trying to get my head around the whole thing. Definitely don't agree with the MSM getting exclusive insights into the algorithms, however I do feel that Google and Facebook are profiting from their content and should pay something. Yes they provide click throughs but we also know that many people just get a "digest" of their content, read the headline and synopsis in the post and never actually click through. Seems like a fair compromise to: 1. drop the algorithm BS 2. let the media companies and Google/Facebook negotiate deals with each other. Arbitration is fair too if they can't come to agreement, what the amount should be should be evidence based. Both sides are exaggerating their figures. The problem with point 2 is, the smaller independent content creators getting cut out. If we see the revenue pie as being historically owned by the MSM, the advent of the internet has split it 3 ways (MSM, Google/Facebook, independent providers). MSM is just trying to get a bigger slice and I think the little guys would lose out in the end. I get that but MSM produce content that the smaller independent content creators simply can't do because of the amount of resources required to do so. Im talking proper investigative journalism. Agree. MSM has a role, so the question is still, how do you cut the pie? Yep I don't know. I'm pretty sure the answer is not this bill though! Why not? It's from the same government that's handed tens of millions of taxpayer dollars over to Murdoch for "women's sport" even though the government owns two TV networks of their own, you should trust them on this lol It is completely untrue to say that the Murdoch media is the propaganda arm of the Liberal party. Really, the Liberal party is the political arm of the Murdoch empire. (That and big mining as well of course). If it was just Murdoch, I'd agree with you. Have no love for that organisation at all.
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paladisious
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBeen trying to get my head around the whole thing. Definitely don't agree with the MSM getting exclusive insights into the algorithms, however I do feel that Google and Facebook are profiting from their content and should pay something. Yes they provide click throughs but we also know that many people just get a "digest" of their content, read the headline and synopsis in the post and never actually click through. Seems like a fair compromise to: 1. drop the algorithm BS 2. let the media companies and Google/Facebook negotiate deals with each other. Arbitration is fair too if they can't come to agreement, what the amount should be should be evidence based. Both sides are exaggerating their figures. The problem with point 2 is, the smaller independent content creators getting cut out. If we see the revenue pie as being historically owned by the MSM, the advent of the internet has split it 3 ways (MSM, Google/Facebook, independent providers). MSM is just trying to get a bigger slice and I think the little guys would lose out in the end. I get that but MSM produce content that the smaller independent content creators simply can't do because of the amount of resources required to do so. Im talking proper investigative journalism. Agree. MSM has a role, so the question is still, how do you cut the pie? Yep I don't know. I'm pretty sure the answer is not this bill though! Why not? It's from the same government that's handed tens of millions of taxpayer dollars over to Murdoch for "women's sport" even though the government owns two TV networks of their own, you should trust them on this lol It is completely untrue to say that the Murdoch media is the propaganda arm of the Liberal party. Really, the Liberal party is the political arm of the Murdoch empire. (That and big mining as well of course). Here's my question to you. If the Murdoch papers disappeared overnight would you be happy with Google and Facebook being the only providers of news in Australia? (ABC and SBS excepted.) I feel like this isn't the first time I've had to say this, but just because I have a view on the particular issue at hand it does not mean that I am necessarily an advocate for Google or Facebook on any other matter. On these grounds, I don't find your hypothetical scenario relevant to the current conversation.
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paladisious
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBeen trying to get my head around the whole thing. Definitely don't agree with the MSM getting exclusive insights into the algorithms, however I do feel that Google and Facebook are profiting from their content and should pay something. Yes they provide click throughs but we also know that many people just get a "digest" of their content, read the headline and synopsis in the post and never actually click through. Seems like a fair compromise to: 1. drop the algorithm BS 2. let the media companies and Google/Facebook negotiate deals with each other. Arbitration is fair too if they can't come to agreement, what the amount should be should be evidence based. Both sides are exaggerating their figures. The problem with point 2 is, the smaller independent content creators getting cut out. If we see the revenue pie as being historically owned by the MSM, the advent of the internet has split it 3 ways (MSM, Google/Facebook, independent providers). MSM is just trying to get a bigger slice and I think the little guys would lose out in the end. I get that but MSM produce content that the smaller independent content creators simply can't do because of the amount of resources required to do so. Im talking proper investigative journalism. Agree. MSM has a role, so the question is still, how do you cut the pie? Yep I don't know. I'm pretty sure the answer is not this bill though! Why not? It's from the same government that's handed tens of millions of taxpayer dollars over to Murdoch for "women's sport" even though the government owns two TV networks of their own, you should trust them on this lol It is completely untrue to say that the Murdoch media is the propaganda arm of the Liberal party. Really, the Liberal party is the political arm of the Murdoch empire. (That and big mining as well of course). If it was just Murdoch, I'd agree with you. Have no love for that organisation at all. Oh sure Nine and some other outfits benefit as well, but we all know who it's principally catering for. You would have seen that ABC and SBS and small indie outfits all miss out.
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Muz
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The reports about some of the SAS running amok in Afghanistan are a bit of a worry. The US marine evidence, if true, is pretty damning. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756
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Carlito
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+xThe reports about some of the SAS running amok in Afghanistan are a bit of a worry. The US marine evidence, if true, is pretty damning. Whats scary is that the person who was the whistle blower is still on trial. The other two have had their charges dropped. War crimes are war crimes no matter who did them.
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Muz
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You'd hope we were better than this. Obviously not. https://www.smh.com.au/national/blood-lust-killings-cover-ups-report-describes-australia-s-abu-ghraib-moment-20201027-p5692v.htmlThis is disturbing. One special forces informant is recorded as telling Dr Crompvoets: "Whatever we do, though, I can tell you the Brits and the US are far, far worse. I've watched our young guys stand by and hero worship what they were doing, salivating at how the US were torturing people. You just stand there and roll your eyes and wait for it to end."
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Carlito
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That is a very disturbing read. War crimes are war crimes no matter who did them. I hope the soldiers who did the crimes end up getting named and jailed. You wouldn't torture prisoners here . Why is it different in times of war?
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Muz
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https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/nsw-premier-gladys-berejiklians-push-to-change-national-anthem-lyrics/news-story/59f634372da4b8a284bf11e9f92ae9e0This change makes sense. Ms Berejiklian has called for a change to the lyrics of the anthem so it declares “we are one and free” instead of we are “young and free”
Probably won't appease all but worth throwing up as an idea. As good as 'I am, we are, Australian' it's too long and you need to get through 5 or so verses before the song tells the whole story. (Most anthems are max 1 or 2 verses.) I came from the dream-time
From the dusty red-soil plains
I am the ancient heart
The keeper of the flame
I stood upon the rocky shores
I watched the tall ships come
For forty thousand years I've been
The first Australian
I came upon the prison ship
Bowed down by iron chains
I bought the land, endured the lash
And waited for the rains
I'm a settler, I'm a farmer's wife
On a dry and barren run
A convict, then a free man
I became Australian
I'm the daughter of a digger
Who sought the mother lode
The girl became a woman
On the long and dusty road
I'm a child of the Depression
I saw the good times come
I'm a bushie, I'm a battler
I am Australian
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
I'm a teller of stories
I'm a singer of songs
I am Albert Namatjira
And I paint the ghostly gums
I'm Clancy on his horse
I'm Ned Kelly on the run
I'm the one who waltzed Matilda
I am Australian
I'm the hot wind from the desert
I'm the black soil of the plains
I'm the mountains and the valleys
I'm the drought and flooding rains
I am the rock, I am the sky
The rivers when they run
The spirit of this great land
I am Australian
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"
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sydneyfc1987
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I dont see the opposition to changing the anthem when it has been changed before. Hell the entire 2nd verse was rewritten.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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pv4
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Muz
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Briggs can EAD. And frankly if that diatribe doesn't have racism smattered all through what does? And. 'Been here for 80 000 years'. Somehow managed to leapfrog the immigration of humans into India and South East Asia. Perhaps they sailed a boat direct from Africa. These claims are getting ridiculous.
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Muz
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+xI dont see the opposition to changing the anthem when it has been changed before. Hell the entire 2nd verse was rewritten. I think no matter what they do something else will become an issue. I'll be in the ground for 100 years and there'll still be dramas. Every single country where indigenous populations have been colonised have exactly the same problems. But change it. No objection from me. Change the whole song if it stops the complaints.
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pv4
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+x+xI dont see the opposition to changing the anthem when it has been changed before. Hell the entire 2nd verse was rewritten. But change it. No objection from me. Change the whole song if it stops the complaints. Do you realise you wrote that immediately after this: +xBriggs can EAD. And frankly if that diatribe doesn't have racism smattered all through what does? And. 'Been here for 80 000 years'. Somehow managed to leapfrog the immigration of humans into India and South East Asia. Perhaps they sailed a boat direct from Africa. These claims are getting ridiculous.
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Muz
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+x+x+xI dont see the opposition to changing the anthem when it has been changed before. Hell the entire 2nd verse was rewritten. But change it. No objection from me. Change the whole song if it stops the complaints. Do you realise you wrote that immediately after this: +xBriggs can EAD. And frankly if that diatribe doesn't have racism smattered all through what does? And. 'Been here for 80 000 years'. Somehow managed to leapfrog the immigration of humans into India and South East Asia. Perhaps they sailed a boat direct from Africa. These claims are getting ridiculous. Yes. Briggs is one of the most divisive indigenous activists out there. (With no evidence I would bet my left nut he entrenches positions on both sides and does almost nothing to bring those sides together.) I have no objection to changing the anthem. I have an objection to Briggs in general and Briggs' phrasing of the argument in the clip. They're not contradictory positions. Briggs is a giant cockhead. I wouldn't be unhappy if the anthem was changed.
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+xI dont see the opposition to changing the anthem when it has been changed before. Hell the entire 2nd verse was rewritten. I think no matter what they do something else will become an issue. Yeah I agree with that. Some people live off having easy/safe hot topic issues to get on their high horse about. Just look at Coon cheese ffs. It's also not a coincidence that people stopped singing the anthem in protest around the same time it started happening in America. Honestly we'll just parrot anything they'll do which is a sad indictment on our ability to think for ourselves. That's not really a country we should be looking to for inspiration anymore. But I think it's a simple change the at reflects the fact we are learning that Australian history didn't start 200 years ago so I'm all for it.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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paladisious
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If the change is simply changing the word "young" to "one" and retaining the rest of the lyrics and music I totally support it. I worry if a new song is proposed it'll surely be some contemporary number that will age like milk, or it'll be I Am Australian, which is great as a showtune, but that's it, it's not an anthem. I have the same worry with our national flag. I really want to see the UK flag taken off ours as it's just fucking humiliating that it's still there 119 years after independence, but I just know whatever gets picked will be some corporate garbage that ignores the principles of flag design. The panel that shortlisted the entries for the NZ flag vote a few years back were all upstanding and eminent Kiwis, but not one of them had any background in visual arts or design, and it showed. Incidentally, I've had my own alternative design based off the strong visual principles of a tricolour and retaining our official national colours and the Southern Cross (won't somebody please think of all the people with the tattoo?) What do you guys think?  You can see a mockup of it actually flapping around on a flagpole here, a factor a lot of flag designers who put words or tiny details on their flags don't seem to think about. And if you've read this far without being bored to death then I encourage you to check out this ted talk on good flag design and why it matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4&ab_channel=TED
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sydneyfc1987
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Yeah I like it. Definitely the right idea.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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scott20won
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+xIf the change is simply changing the word "young" to "one" and retaining the rest of the lyrics and music I totally support it. I worry if a new song is proposed it'll surely be some contemporary number that will age like milk, or it'll be I Am Australian, which is great as a showtune, but that's it, it's not an anthem. I have the same worry with our national flag. I really want to see the UK flag taken off ours as it's just fucking humiliating that it's still there 119 years after independence, but I just know whatever gets picked will be some corporate garbage that ignores the principles of flag design. The panel that shortlisted the entries for the NZ flag vote a few years back were all upstanding and eminent Kiwis, but not one of them had any background in visual arts or design, and it showed. Incidentally, I've had my own alternative design based off the strong visual principles of a tricolour and retaining our official national colours and the Southern Cross (won't somebody please think of all the people with the tattoo?) What do you guys think? You can see a mockup of it actually flapping around on a flagpole here, a factor a lot of flag designers who put words or tiny details on their flags don't seem to think about. And if you've read this far without being bored to death then I throughout encourage you to check out this ted talk on good flag design and why it matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4&ab_channel=TED We would have to pay the Solomon Islands royalties
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paladisious
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+xYeah I like it. Definitely the right idea. Thanks! In hindsight, I should probably have kept the blue panel with the southern cross on the right hand side where it already is and put the green panel on the left, even though traditionally the most important aspect of the design is on the left/top, but that would take several seconds of work in photoshop to do.
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paladisious
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+x+xIf the change is simply changing the word "young" to "one" and retaining the rest of the lyrics and music I totally support it. I worry if a new song is proposed it'll surely be some contemporary number that will age like milk, or it'll be I Am Australian, which is great as a showtune, but that's it, it's not an anthem. I have the same worry with our national flag. I really want to see the UK flag taken off ours as it's just fucking humiliating that it's still there 119 years after independence, but I just know whatever gets picked will be some corporate garbage that ignores the principles of flag design. The panel that shortlisted the entries for the NZ flag vote a few years back were all upstanding and eminent Kiwis, but not one of them had any background in visual arts or design, and it showed. Incidentally, I've had my own alternative design based off the strong visual principles of a tricolour and retaining our official national colours and the Southern Cross (won't somebody please think of all the people with the tattoo?) What do you guys think? You can see a mockup of it actually flapping around on a flagpole here, a factor a lot of flag designers who put words or tiny details on their flags don't seem to think about. And if you've read this far without being bored to death then I throughout encourage you to check out this ted talk on good flag design and why it matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4&ab_channel=TED We would have to pay the Solomon Islands royalties There have been quite a few Australian designs a lot more closer to the Solomon Islands' flag than that, I probably can't/cbf finding them tonight though.
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Glory Recruit
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Nice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology
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paladisious
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+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :)
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Muz
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+x+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :) Blue and green are jarring together. I like this one, amongst others. https://www.unityflag.com.au/Takes some getting used to but it's simple, the colours don't clash and it's meets all the vexillological requirements of a good flag.
Member since 2008.
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mcjules
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+x+x+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :) Blue and green are jarring together. I like this one, amongst others. https://www.unityflag.com.au/Takes some getting used to but it's simple, the colours don't clash and it's meets all the vexillological requirements of a good flag. I don't mind it but I personally prefer the golden wattle. Has a bit more identity to it. http://www.goldenwattleflag.com/
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Muz
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+x+x+x+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :) Blue and green are jarring together. I like this one, amongst others. https://www.unityflag.com.au/Takes some getting used to but it's simple, the colours don't clash and it's meets all the vexillological requirements of a good flag. I don't mind it but I personally prefer the golden wattle. Has a bit more identity to it. http://www.goldenwattleflag.com/ Yeah that's sweet. The blue alternate with the yellow is good too. Wonder what the blue with white would look like.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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pv4
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+x+x+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :) Blue and green are jarring together. I like this one, amongst others. https://www.unityflag.com.au/Takes some getting used to but it's simple, the colours don't clash and it's meets all the vexillological requirements of a good flag. I think the unity flag would be better with green instead of the white right sided tip. Or even changing the blue for green. I like the golden wattle flag. I like pala's flag. I am all for removing the jack completely, and also incorporating our national colours.
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paladisious
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+x+x+xIf the change is simply changing the word "young" to "one" and retaining the rest of the lyrics and music I totally support it. I worry if a new song is proposed it'll surely be some contemporary number that will age like milk, or it'll be I Am Australian, which is great as a showtune, but that's it, it's not an anthem. I have the same worry with our national flag. I really want to see the UK flag taken off ours as it's just fucking humiliating that it's still there 119 years after independence, but I just know whatever gets picked will be some corporate garbage that ignores the principles of flag design. The panel that shortlisted the entries for the NZ flag vote a few years back were all upstanding and eminent Kiwis, but not one of them had any background in visual arts or design, and it showed. Incidentally, I've had my own alternative design based off the strong visual principles of a tricolour and retaining our official national colours and the Southern Cross (won't somebody please think of all the people with the tattoo?) What do you guys think? You can see a mockup of it actually flapping around on a flagpole here, a factor a lot of flag designers who put words or tiny details on their flags don't seem to think about. And if you've read this far without being bored to death then I throughout encourage you to check out this ted talk on good flag design and why it matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4&ab_channel=TED We would have to pay the Solomon Islands royalties There have been quite a few Australian designs a lot more closer to the Solomon Islands' flag than that, I probably can't/cbf finding them tonight though. Some of these would really be stepping on the Solomon Islands: 
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paladisious
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+x+x+x+xNice flag, post it on Reddit Vexillology Thanks, I'll give it a go. :) Blue and green are jarring together. I like this one, amongst others. https://www.unityflag.com.au/Takes some getting used to but it's simple, the colours don't clash and it's meets all the vexillological requirements of a good flag. I think the unity flag would be better with green instead of the white right sided tip. Or even changing the blue for green. Definitely agree about changing the white for green on the unity flag:  I really like how they showed all the different ways the flag would be seen, as buttons and graphics for the football, a lot of people don't think about that. Not crazy about changing to an eight point star though, despite its use in the Eureka Flag and the federation movement. Actually here's a bunch of alternatives someone else did: https://imgur.com/a/mgNzTI'd prefer a southern cross anyway.
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