I think, that back in the 90's the west thought, with the fall of the iron curtain, and capitalism spreading to the former Soviet territories and Russia itself that democracy would take hold, free and fair elections would be held and everyone would eventually be 'integrated' into the 'west'.

To a large degree that's happened with former Warsaw pact members like, Slovakia, Poland Latvia, Estonia etc becoming thriving capitalist democracies.

No one banked on Russia stalling and then going backwards and becoming more and more autocratic. I mean for fucks sake Putin changed the constitution so he could stay in power, murders journalists by the dozens, poison or locks up anyone that dares to speak against him. I hardly think for one minute that's what the west thought would happen. So I guess now there tearing up those 'agreements' or 'understandings' they had in the 90s to build a bulwark. Either to deliberately antagonise Putin, to build a buffer between them and the 'old' western Europe', to help spread democracy or a mixture of all three. (And maybe some others.) 

Almost exactly the same thing has happened in China regards their trajectory since opening up their economy and embracing capitalism. They're peas in a pod.

This whole Russia thing could go a couple of different ways but it is interesting seeing mass protests in Moscow that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. Are we going to get another Tianemen Square incident.

So if your neighbour habours the military might of your enemy, you think its ok to just let that happen? 

Putins actions may seem extreme but perfectly understandable from the point of view of protecting his nation.  We would do the same.

Moscow is 500kms from the Ukraine border.  Under 15 minutes flight for a NATO fighter plane.   Less for missiles.  Ain't happening.

If Putin's endgame is to slow down or stop what he considers to be the unacceptable expansion of NATO & asssociated political influence then he isn't doing very well on that front.   :hehe:

Yup. Major backfire. Germany committing to 2% of GDP spending on military and Finland wanting to join NATO. He's made the situation worse for Russian security. 

Ok cool, so unless everyone walks around chanting 'I will not join NATO' they are getting invaded and their apartments bombed. What sort of logic is this?

You're confusing cause and effect.  The cause of the invasion is Ukraine's to join NATO and the West's willingness to accept it.

They have not joined NATO. Nor are they able to. Can you comprehend that simple point?

And made it worse for russians in general for a long time now.

Which makes me think the NATO stuff could just as well be BS. I don't think anyone really knows 100% why he has invaded - including those close to him - after all he's also thrown up that he's saving people from genocide (no evidence at all mind you).

There is the possibility it's nothing more than a sociopathic quest for more power and a return to the Soviet Union. 

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour

The reality is that, after two decades of eastward Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit and defence structure, via an explicitly anti-Moscow EU association agreement.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

You're either naive or wilfully ignorant to think that NATO membership for Ukraine is not on the cards.

Ukraine government definitely aren't saints , there is no question about that despite the boring self righteous posturing occurring.  

However whether NATO membership is or isn't on the cards it doesn't justify an invasion like this.  

I'd to know if they're doing anything about the gas that runs through Ukraine from Russia,  Putin has had a bug bear about Ukraine's access to the gas for a long time.  

Putin may be holding back the rest of his forces however he must know that if he goes after Estonia, Poland, Latvia or whatever that it's total war.  

Nice article about how we got here.

And rather prescient too.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

After Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, the bulk of the western media abandoned any hint of even-handed coverage. So Putin is now routinely compared to Hitler, while the role of the fascistic right on the streets and in the new Ukrainian regime has been airbrushed out of most reporting as Putinist propaganda.

So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators and pogromists, or the arson attacks on the homes and offices of elected communist leaders, or the integration of the extreme Right Sector into the national guard, while the anti-semitism and white supremacism of the government's ultra-nationalists is assiduously played down, and false identifications of Russian special forces are relayed as fact.

In fact, one outcome of the crisis is likely to be a closer alliance between China and Russia, as the US continues its anti-Chinese "pivot" to Asia.

"Opinion"
"This article is more than 7 years old"

lol

Had no idea Enzo was a fully committed communist sympathiser.

His only default position or thinking is ‘how can I own the lib tards’, not actually ever based on a nuanced evaluation or considered ideological outlook 

So if your neighbour habours the military might of your enemy, you think its ok to just let that happen? 

Putins actions may seem extreme but perfectly understandable from the point of view of protecting his nation.  We would do the same.

I saw somebody a few days ago ask how would the USA react if Russia and China started building military bases/ stationing troops in Mexico?

It's strange times when people like Enzo's trust in the media and government/cultural institutions is so low they will take on face value the word of a man and leader like Putin regarding his casus belli (thanks seinfeld).

People like Enzo would have deported people like Enzo back in his good old days :hehe:

But it is hilarious watching the self appointed protectors of free speech in our country back a man who literally poisons anybody brave enough to stand up to him.