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quickflick
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to persevere*
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SoccerooFan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI agree with your observations Decentric. On the basis of it, it appears both Irvine and Hrustic would be much more of an 8 than a 6 and even higher up. This is what bugs me why neither Jeggo nor Dougall got a start. If anything Irvine should have swapped places with Mooy last night. Irvine played in that left side role against Jordan away and got the assist for Taggart. I don't think we should see a Rogic, Hrustic, Mooy, Irvine midfield again. After observing this Japan game, I'm thinking Sains may be a good DM paired with Mooy. Too slow. As I say, central midfielders needn’t be fast (unlike wide players). But having both of them there would make us way too sluggish in that area of the park. It’s asking the opposition to run literal rings around them. Mooy is really out of it (fitness-wise). To start the game with him is right now is a mistake as it sets the wrong tone. But I agree that Sainsbury has potential as a CDM. He could be paired with someone like Jeggo. That would improve our capacity to close down and to recycle the ball nicely. Trent Sainsbury Against Japan, Sains was one of the few in the back six, seven when Hrustic played in the DM line, who made intercepts through good reading of play. Sains made these intercepts because he was often ahead of the game in speed of thought. By intercepts I don't mean reactive clearances. Why I would like to try him as a DM? Because with Mooy, we have two players who read the game well, with considerable international experience and can screen the defence. Between them they'd average 5- 8 intercepts per game, which means breaking up a lot of opposition attacks. the DM line is a problem for us ATM, and a weakness, despite having many DMs. Sains also has sufficient speed over the turf, and is reasonably agile. Japan forced a lot of turnovers from Hrustic in particular ( devoid of sufficient experience and game sense), Irvine, and to a lesser extent Mooy, in the DM line. Sains made the mistake of ball watching where the Japanese player scored the second goal, as Sains didn't get enough boot onto the ball in the intended tackle from seeing the threat too late. It was a shocker - but he was more solid than anybody else in the back four and DM line against Japan, possibly apart from Mooy. Sains has a decent first touch; sufficient handling speed; passing over range; rapidfire passing and moving in tight spaces; is an adequate ball carrier, plus he is a good aerialist. These are good technical qualities to have, and, with his tackling, 1v1 and positioning qualities, this is quite a diverse skill set for a DM. Sains more than matches Jedi ( quite a success at DM for the Socceroos). As I said, I back the idea of Sainsbury at CDM. However, I don’t back Sainsbury + Mooy in that pairing. As a pair, they’re too slow. Sainsbury, while quicker than Mooy, isn’t quick or nimble enough to compensate for Mooy’s sluggishness. We agree they both have football IQ. But they lack mobility (Mooy especially) and would be expected to cover too much ground. If I were lining up on the other team as a CAM or winger who cuts inside, I’d be quite happy to have Mooy + Sainsbury there. By contrast, Sainsbury + Jeggo would offer more mobility to go with that football intelligence I'm not sure Sains is that slow over the turf, QF? In the case of Mooy and Sains as prospective DMs, their speed of thought can compensate for any perceived lack of speed over the turf. If players are reading the play well, they anticipate where to be ahead of players with less insight, that more than compensates for speed over the turf to correct mistakes. This applied to Aidan Hrustic against Japan - quick over the turf, but slow to read the game as a DM. My impression is that Sainsbury’s pace is about average. That’s fine but you need to be more than average to make up for Mooy’s slowness. Mooy was always slow. Now he’s unfit and hasn’t been playing for a while. Not a good idea for him ti start. I agree with you re speed of thought. But neither Mooy nor Sainsbury is Iniesta or Xavi. They read the game better than most of the Aussies. But they’re not prodigies. So I don’t think their football IQ “more than compensates for speed over the turf”. We still have a cluttered midfield. As Sainsbury and Mooy are (collectively) slow, when they’re near each other constantly it won’t declutter the midfield. When there are gaps between Sainsbury and Mooy that’s a huge vulnerability for us in the centre of midfield. You need somebody who can close down space quickly. Speed of thought + speed over the turf. Say if Sainsbury finds himself isolated, then Australia is way better off if Jeggo or somebody similar is coming back to help him, than if Mooy is. My impression is that Sainsbury's pace is a little above average for a footballer playing in the 6 or 8 position. Certainly no Leckie but very respectable. I would have thought that too. Players like Kruse, Leckie and Smith, are/have been some of the fastest players over the turf in world football. They are. Or at least, they’re very fast as footballers go. But it’s not a question of a player having the pace of Sainsbury or the pace of Smith, Mbappé, etc. There are too many footballers to count whose pace lies between that of Sainsbury and that of Smith. I still think Sainsbury’s pace is average for a footballer. That’s not a problem. You don’t need to be quick as a central defender or as a CDM (often the best aren’t quick). Think Bonucci, Chiellini, Scholes, Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo, etc. But Mooy is basically a slowcoach. And an unfit one at that. So have Mooy + Sainsbury there is courting disaster. They can’t close down space quickly enough as a pair. Big problem when Sainsbury find himself in 2 vs 1 and Mooy is making his way back. The mistake that Arnie made was to try to squeeze all of Australia’s best players over the past five years onto the pitch at once. To preserve with Mooy in that way (as a starter) is to make that same mistake again. Why not have some faith in other players such as Jeggo and Dougall? Mooy wasn't playing in a central midfield position, he was playing left midfield in a 4 4 2. He is still one of our best CM, CAM & can hold his own as a CDM. He's not quick enough to play left midfield - Arnie should've started Mabil on that side with his extra pace, as we had pace down the right with Boyle. I still can't understand why Arnie would've changed the formation, after we had won 11 straight & everyone knew their role and were playing in their correct positions. Hindsight's 20/20 but he also should've started Elder & Dougall - they're both playing 90 mins every week in the championship.
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI agree with your observations Decentric. On the basis of it, it appears both Irvine and Hrustic would be much more of an 8 than a 6 and even higher up. This is what bugs me why neither Jeggo nor Dougall got a start. If anything Irvine should have swapped places with Mooy last night. Irvine played in that left side role against Jordan away and got the assist for Taggart. I don't think we should see a Rogic, Hrustic, Mooy, Irvine midfield again. After observing this Japan game, I'm thinking Sains may be a good DM paired with Mooy. Too slow. As I say, central midfielders needn’t be fast (unlike wide players). But having both of them there would make us way too sluggish in that area of the park. It’s asking the opposition to run literal rings around them. Mooy is really out of it (fitness-wise). To start the game with him is right now is a mistake as it sets the wrong tone. But I agree that Sainsbury has potential as a CDM. He could be paired with someone like Jeggo. That would improve our capacity to close down and to recycle the ball nicely. Trent Sainsbury Against Japan, Sains was one of the few in the back six, seven when Hrustic played in the DM line, who made intercepts through good reading of play. Sains made these intercepts because he was often ahead of the game in speed of thought. By intercepts I don't mean reactive clearances. Why I would like to try him as a DM? Because with Mooy, we have two players who read the game well, with considerable international experience and can screen the defence. Between them they'd average 5- 8 intercepts per game, which means breaking up a lot of opposition attacks. the DM line is a problem for us ATM, and a weakness, despite having many DMs. Sains also has sufficient speed over the turf, and is reasonably agile. Japan forced a lot of turnovers from Hrustic in particular ( devoid of sufficient experience and game sense), Irvine, and to a lesser extent Mooy, in the DM line. Sains made the mistake of ball watching where the Japanese player scored the second goal, as Sains didn't get enough boot onto the ball in the intended tackle from seeing the threat too late. It was a shocker - but he was more solid than anybody else in the back four and DM line against Japan, possibly apart from Mooy. Sains has a decent first touch; sufficient handling speed; passing over range; rapidfire passing and moving in tight spaces; is an adequate ball carrier, plus he is a good aerialist. These are good technical qualities to have, and, with his tackling, 1v1 and positioning qualities, this is quite a diverse skill set for a DM. Sains more than matches Jedi ( quite a success at DM for the Socceroos). As I said, I back the idea of Sainsbury at CDM. However, I don’t back Sainsbury + Mooy in that pairing. As a pair, they’re too slow. Sainsbury, while quicker than Mooy, isn’t quick or nimble enough to compensate for Mooy’s sluggishness. We agree they both have football IQ. But they lack mobility (Mooy especially) and would be expected to cover too much ground. If I were lining up on the other team as a CAM or winger who cuts inside, I’d be quite happy to have Mooy + Sainsbury there. By contrast, Sainsbury + Jeggo would offer more mobility to go with that football intelligence I'm not sure Sains is that slow over the turf, QF? In the case of Mooy and Sains as prospective DMs, their speed of thought can compensate for any perceived lack of speed over the turf. If players are reading the play well, they anticipate where to be ahead of players with less insight, that more than compensates for speed over the turf to correct mistakes. This applied to Aidan Hrustic against Japan - quick over the turf, but slow to read the game as a DM. My impression is that Sainsbury’s pace is about average. That’s fine but you need to be more than average to make up for Mooy’s slowness. Mooy was always slow. Now he’s unfit and hasn’t been playing for a while. Not a good idea for him ti start. I agree with you re speed of thought. But neither Mooy nor Sainsbury is Iniesta or Xavi. They read the game better than most of the Aussies. But they’re not prodigies. So I don’t think their football IQ “more than compensates for speed over the turf”. We still have a cluttered midfield. As Sainsbury and Mooy are (collectively) slow, when they’re near each other constantly it won’t declutter the midfield. When there are gaps between Sainsbury and Mooy that’s a huge vulnerability for us in the centre of midfield. You need somebody who can close down space quickly. Speed of thought + speed over the turf. Say if Sainsbury finds himself isolated, then Australia is way better off if Jeggo or somebody similar is coming back to help him, than if Mooy is. My impression is that Sainsbury's pace is a little above average for a footballer playing in the 6 or 8 position. Certainly no Leckie but very respectable. I would have thought that too. Players like Kruse, Leckie and Smith, are/have been some of the fastest players over the turf in world football. They are. Or at least, they’re very fast as footballers go. But it’s not a question of a player having the pace of Sainsbury or the pace of Smith, Mbappé, etc. There are too many footballers to count whose pace lies between that of Sainsbury and that of Smith. I still think Sainsbury’s pace is average for a footballer. That’s not a problem. You don’t need to be quick as a central defender or as a CDM (often the best aren’t quick). Think Bonucci, Chiellini, Scholes, Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo, etc. But Mooy is basically a slowcoach. And an unfit one at that. So have Mooy + Sainsbury there is courting disaster. They can’t close down space quickly enough as a pair. Big problem when Sainsbury find himself in 2 vs 1 and Mooy is making his way back. The mistake that Arnie made was to try to squeeze all of Australia’s best players over the past five years onto the pitch at once. To preserve with Mooy in that way (as a starter) is to make that same mistake again. Why not have some faith in other players such as Jeggo and Dougall? Mooy wasn't playing in a central midfield position, he was playing left midfield in a 4 4 2. He is still one of our best CM, CAM & can hold his own as a CDM. He's not quick enough to play left midfield - Arnie should've started Mabil on that side with his extra pace, as we had pace down the right with Boyle. I still can't understand why Arnie would've changed the formation, after we had won 11 straight & everyone knew their role and were playing in their correct positions. Hindsight's 20/20 but he also should've started Elder & Dougall - they're both playing 90 mins every week in the championship. Regardless Mooy shouldn't have started anyway. He can come off the bench. Agree with you re Mabil.
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Proud2BeCanberran
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Bump.
Squad and team needs rejuvenation. I don't see what we have to lose over these coming two games to try something out. It could surprise, most certainly Saudi Arabia.
I think if we keep our spine of Ryan, Degenek, Sainsbury, Rogic, Hrustic and Boyle then fill up the other spots with in form, firing and energetic players. It will give us something new from the stale Behich, Mooy, Irvine and Leckie I have no doubt. These players may well have a role off the bench, to sure up a lead and add a bit of experience when needed.
Ryan
AMB
Vukovic
Sainsbury
Degenek
Stesness
Rowles
Gersbach
Behich
Atkinson
Karacic
Devlin
Genreau
Jeggo
Hrustic
Mooy
Rogic
McGree
Irvine
Boyle
Juric
Mabil (or Leckie if Mabil doesn't start playing first team football)
Goodwin
Maclaren
Kuol (or Duke if Kuol doesn't hit the ground running at Sandhausen)
-----------------------Ryan--------------------
Atkinson--Sains--Deg----Gersbach
----------------------Devlin-----------------
--------------McGree----Hrustic--------
-------------------------Rogic----------------
---------------Boyle------Juric-----------
If we don't want to go for the diamond midfield we could play Hrustic wider and go back to the 4-3-3. I think the inclusion of Devlin is important. Since Jedinak's retirement we don't have that player who is a bit of a hardnut and will fight for everything. Prior to Jedi we had Grella. Now we have Mooy playing that 6 role and he's just not working there. Devlin can be that with the added technical ability too.
I think it's an exciting team. Lack a bit of depth at CB with Souttar out and Deng still on his way back but there are good players there, playing at good levels. You're still leaving out Thomas, Grant, Elder, Smith, JRB, King, Luongo, Metcalfe, Dougall, Leckie, Duke and Ruka who can all arguably still do a job too.
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huddo
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Stens is a DM, even though he was playing the D role at Vikings, he's muCh better as a DM.
and can some one explain why degenek is still a international defender?
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Balin Trev
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+xStens is a DM, even though he was playing the D role at Vikings, he's muCh better as a DM. and can some one explain why degenek is still a international defender? Arnold is clueless. Stensness, Dougall, Holland should be in next squad instead of Jeggo and Irvine
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Proud2BeCanberran
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+x+xStens is a DM, even though he was playing the D role at Vikings, he's muCh better as a DM. and can some one explain why degenek is still a international defender? Arnold is clueless. Stensness, Dougall, Holland should be in next squad instead of Jeggo and Irvine Tbh I don't see why Jeggo gets the bad wrap. He was our best player in those two games vs Saudi and China yet somehow got dropped for a player who isn't a 6. Ideally you do play Stesness as a 6, but we don't have the depth at CB atm. He was doing a good job at CB for Viking at the end of last season. I also thought Degenek was solid the past two games.
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Balin Trev
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+x+x+xStens is a DM, even though he was playing the D role at Vikings, he's muCh better as a DM. and can some one explain why degenek is still a international defender? Arnold is clueless. Stensness, Dougall, Holland should be in next squad instead of Jeggo and Irvine Tbh I don't see why Jeggo gets the bad wrap. He was our best player in those two games vs Saudi and China yet somehow got dropped for a player who isn't a 6. Ideally you do play Stesness as a 6, but we don't have the depth at CB atm. He was doing a good job at CB for Viking at the end of last season. I also thought Degenek was solid the past two games. Which china game? Do u mean the last game where he gave away a sloppy penalty and cost Roos the extra 2 points? Dougall, Holland, Devlin, Stensness are better options
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SoccerooFan
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--------------------Ryan--------------------
Atkinson--Sains--Stensness--Elder
----------------------Dougall-----------------
--------------McGree/Irvine----Hrustic--------
-------------------------Rogic----------------
---------------Boyle------Juric-----------
Japan has a strong team, but maybe this team has a chance to beat them & SA
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Footyball
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+x--------------------Ryan-------------------- Atkinson--Sains--Stensness--Elder ----------------------Dougall----------------- --------------McGree/Irvine----Hrustic-------- -------------------------Rogic---------------- ---------------Boyle------Juric----------- Japan has a strong team, but maybe this team has a chance to beat them & SA Juric can't displace Lachie Rose, infact, he can't play any minutes at all atm.
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SoccerooFan
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+x+x--------------------Ryan-------------------- Atkinson--Sains--Stensness--Elder ----------------------Dougall----------------- --------------McGree/Irvine----Hrustic-------- -------------------------Rogic---------------- ---------------Boyle------Juric----------- Japan has a strong team, but maybe this team has a chance to beat them & SA Juric can't displace Lachie Rose, infact, he can't play any minutes at all atm. I'm sure you're joking but if not, I'm talking about His Brother Deni Juric
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Josh
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+x--------------------Ryan-------------------- Atkinson--Sains--Stensness--Elder ----------------------Dougall----------------- --------------McGree/Irvine----Hrustic-------- -------------------------Rogic---------------- ---------------Boyle------Juric----------- Japan has a strong team, but maybe this team has a chance to beat them & SA If nothing else Arnie has shown that he isn’t brave enough to make big decisions and drop people who aren’t performing. I mean, if behich didn’t get dropped after his game against Japan then I have lost all hope. No disrespect to the bloke but it’s one of the worst Socceroo performances I’ve seen in the last decade.
I agree with your team other than stensness for degenek and I’d go mcgree but it doesn’t matter. Arnie has his guys and that’s that
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johnszasz
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I see this got renamed and is being continued after the Japan away game. The OP is depressing from where we've ended up.
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mark_000au
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I noticed under Arnie we played worse in the 2nd half in most games.
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Josh
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If arnie had any tactical nous he would tinker things to get it done. Ryan
karacic sainsbury degenek behich
dougall jeggo
boyle Rogic mabil
Juric
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AnthonyC
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Coaches don't listen to any one but themselves, it's an ego thing.
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DandyCasey
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Have a feeling Boyle will lead the line for this.
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Akumastarr
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Things are so dire on the striker front
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LFC.
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+xThings are so dire on the striker front been the same for decades re strikers. Lets move on we got to look ahead with promise for this coming game. Anything could happen, Jap could have an off game for eg, Ryan could play a blinder and keep a clean sheet. Got to be optimistic - they are not to be over feared thats for sure.
Love Football
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charlied
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Way too much angst on strikers. We have a front 3 of Mabil, Goodwin/Tilio and Boyle.
A lot today like there.
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jas88
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Arnie will go back to his favourites.
Ryan
grant sainsbury degenek behich
Mooy Irvine
boyle Rogic mabil
Duke
We'll get pumped 3-0 at home and then we can all start to panic.
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Davide82
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+xArnie will go back to his favourites. Ryan grant sainsbury degenek behich Mooy Irvine boyle Rogic mabil Duke We'll get pumped 3-0 at home and then we can all start to panic. I think you're basically right re the whole team but he would be crazy not to start Goodwin in his form and move Boyle to the middle. I don't just say that as an Adelaide fan, Goodwin is playing with such confidence right now I feel like even Arnie can't deny that. He's been in a full camp now and scored one of the classiest roos goal in years (even if he only got the ball from woeful defending - still need to finish them) EDIT - can't see him playing Grant over karacic though. I've critisised Arnie a lot but he isn't completely insane
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SoccerooFan
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+x+xArnie will go back to his favourites. Ryan grant sainsbury degenek behich Mooy Irvine boyle Rogic mabil Duke We'll get pumped 3-0 at home and then we can all start to panic. I think you're basically right re the whole team but he would be crazy not to start Goodwin in his form and move Boyle to the middle. I don't just say that as an Adelaide fan, Goodwin is playing with such confidence right now I feel like even Arnie can't deny that. He's been in a full camp now and scored one of the classiest roos goal in years (even if he only got the ball from woeful defending - still need to finish them) EDIT - can't see him playing Grant over karacic though. I've critisised Arnie a lot but he isn't completely insane Could Goodwin play as a LB? I agree he's probably the best player in the a league at the moment & you have to play guys when they're in form - same applies to Mabil - it looks like he's got his mojo back, so I would be starting him as well. As much as I like Mooy, he's not playing at the moment for Shanghai, so bench for him.
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Davide82
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+x+x+xArnie will go back to his favourites. Ryan grant sainsbury degenek behich Mooy Irvine boyle Rogic mabil Duke We'll get pumped 3-0 at home and then we can all start to panic. I think you're basically right re the whole team but he would be crazy not to start Goodwin in his form and move Boyle to the middle. I don't just say that as an Adelaide fan, Goodwin is playing with such confidence right now I feel like even Arnie can't deny that. He's been in a full camp now and scored one of the classiest roos goal in years (even if he only got the ball from woeful defending - still need to finish them) EDIT - can't see him playing Grant over karacic though. I've critisised Arnie a lot but he isn't completely insane Could Goodwin play as a LB? I don't think so. Not at that level. He could maybe cover half hour if in-game injuries happened etc but I'm not sure I'd trust him there for a whole game. Not in a crunch game anyway. and yeah Mabil seems to be in form too and those 3 would be a very mobile front line. Given the options we have right now it makes the most sense. Feel like JMac may still get the nod in the first game though but I really hope not. We won't dominate around the box enough for him to get his tap ins and Boyle will press much much harder and create a bit of chaos
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ErogenousZone
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We need maximum points from both games or we're in deep poop.
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sub007
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Ray Gatt reporting that Daggers and Bruno Fornaroli will be called up.
Geez, we must be desperate.
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johnszasz
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D'Agostino has to be in now surely. If we're leading or trailing, he's suited for the last 20 to harass. Duke also but D'Agostino is really in form. If Volpato and Juric don't come then I think Ikon and Folami need inclusion.
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johnszasz
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+xD'Agostino has to be in now surely. If we're leading or trailing, he's suited for the last 20 to harass. Duke also but D'Agostino is really in form. If Volpato and Juric don't come then I think Ikon and Folami need inclusion. Well then
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bohemia
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+xRay Gatt reporting that Daggers and Bruno Fornaroli will be called up. Geez, we must be desperate. Bruno is cap tied, whatever Gatty's smoking, i want to sprinkle some of my own all over that shit
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sub007
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+xD'Agostino has to be in now surely. If we're leading or trailing, he's suited for the last 20 to harass. Duke also but D'Agostino is really in form. If Volpato and Juric don't come then I think Ikon and Folami need inclusion. Pls no. Goodwin has been the best winger in the league by a country mile while Ikon’s been warming the bench.
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