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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 2. So you're now against sovereign nations deciding for themselves who they align themselves with militarily and politically even though in this case it is 4 times the distance from our borders as the Ukraine border is from Moscow? So let me get this right. You don't see the Solomon Islands signing this pact with China as a foreign policy failure on the part of the LNP? You don't see this as a kick in the teeth to the Aus government after the billions we gave the Solomon islands over the years, the military help, the federal police we send over there time and time again. That's all ok by you? Go on, you can do it (and I know it will be hard), just say 'yeah that was a bit of a balls up by the LNP'. Shit see if you can somehow link it back to something Labour did 15 years ago while you're at it. Can you do it Enzo? Can you concede one tiny, tiny point and maybe just criticise your own side for once or are you going to say no China can do what ever they want? I mean you probably will because you're OK with Russia flattening a country holus bolus on some made up pretext. What a fucking joke you are. Oh, unlike you I am not a hypocrite. I'm always consistent. China should never have been allowed in the Solomons. Like Ukraine into NATO, you know? Which Russia has objected to for the past decade, after Western powers removed Ukraine's democratically-elected government in 2014. Maybe we should bomb Honiara? Consistent is correct. Consistently unable to concede a point. Just to be clear do you think that that is an LNP foreign policy failure or not? Of course. Just like the Western policy in Ukraine is.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 2. So you're now against sovereign nations deciding for themselves who they align themselves with militarily and politically even though in this case it is 4 times the distance from our borders as the Ukraine border is from Moscow? So let me get this right. You don't see the Solomon Islands signing this pact with China as a foreign policy failure on the part of the LNP? You don't see this as a kick in the teeth to the Aus government after the billions we gave the Solomon islands over the years, the military help, the federal police we send over there time and time again. That's all ok by you? Go on, you can do it (and I know it will be hard), just say 'yeah that was a bit of a balls up by the LNP'. Shit see if you can somehow link it back to something Labour did 15 years ago while you're at it. Can you do it Enzo? Can you concede one tiny, tiny point and maybe just criticise your own side for once or are you going to say no China can do what ever they want? I mean you probably will because you're OK with Russia flattening a country holus bolus on some made up pretext. What a fucking joke you are. Oh, unlike you I am not a hypocrite. I'm always consistent. China should never have been allowed in the Solomons. Like Ukraine into NATO, you know? Which Russia has objected to for the past decade, after Western powers removed Ukraine's democratically-elected government in 2014. Maybe we should bomb Honiara? Consistent is correct. Consistently unable to concede a point. Just to be clear do you think that that is an LNP foreign policy failure or not? Of course. Just like the Western policy in Ukraine is. Didn't think you could say it. So close too.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Biggest financial crisis since the great depression is analogous to the Covid pandemic. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy, although there may have been waste, worked. As for money getting splashed around my kids and all their mates that worked at Maccas and KFC and Boost juice and all the rest of it were getting payments of $750 a week or $1500 a fortnight when they were locked down. And they were only working 10-16 hours a week. What a joke. Billions wasted. Even now my kids mates are all claiming this $750 covid payment for a positive test despite hardly any of them having it or still going to work. All you need to do is say you had a positive test and you're sweet. No checks, no confirmations, nothing. Nahh mate the two are not analogous. Melbourne shut down for 262 days in the pandemic. Zero shutdowns during the GFC. Big difference. As for the recession during the GFC, Australia was never in danger of a recession. Our banking system is regulated far beyond the rest of the world. And we're not in a recession now either. Think of the payments as a trial for a Universal Basic Income. I've always against that because of the risk of inflation...wait...I might be on to something... Melbourne is not Australia despite what Victorians may believe. How very trite. We avoided a recession because we were 'never in danger of a recession'. Case closed then. Care to explain how other OECD or European countries with highly regulated banking systems went into recessions then? Sydney locked down for 100 during pandemic. Zero during GFC. That plus Melbourne is a large chunk of the Australian economy shut down. The RBA can explai it better than I can: The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/the-global-financial-crisis.html
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Biggest financial crisis since the great depression is analogous to the Covid pandemic. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy, although there may have been waste, worked. As for money getting splashed around my kids and all their mates that worked at Maccas and KFC and Boost juice and all the rest of it were getting payments of $750 a week or $1500 a fortnight when they were locked down. And they were only working 10-16 hours a week. What a joke. Billions wasted. Even now my kids mates are all claiming this $750 covid payment for a positive test despite hardly any of them having it or still going to work. All you need to do is say you had a positive test and you're sweet. No checks, no confirmations, nothing. Nahh mate the two are not analogous. Melbourne shut down for 262 days in the pandemic. Zero shutdowns during the GFC. Big difference. As for the recession during the GFC, Australia was never in danger of a recession. Our banking system is regulated far beyond the rest of the world. And we're not in a recession now either. Think of the payments as a trial for a Universal Basic Income. I've always against that because of the risk of inflation...wait...I might be on to something... Melbourne is not Australia despite what Victorians may believe. How very trite. We avoided a recession because we were 'never in danger of a recession'. Case closed then. Care to explain how other OECD or European countries with highly regulated banking systems went into recessions then? Sydney locked down for 100 during pandemic. Zero during GFC. That plus Melbourne is a large chunk of the Australian economy shut down. The RBA can explai it better than I can: The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/the-global-financial-crisis.html Unlike some I actually read the links posters put up. I particularly love calling out posters who selectively quote or edit text to bolster their arguments. More so when the larger swathes of said texts don't support their position. Australia and the GFCRelatively strong economic performanceAustralia did not experience a large economic downturn or a financial crisis during the GFC. However, the pace of economic growth did slow significantly, the unemployment rate rose sharply and there was a period of heightened uncertainty. The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: - Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
- Subprime and other high-risk loans were only a small share of lending in Australia, partly because of the historical focus on lending standards by the Australian banking regulator (the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA)).
- Australia's economy was buoyed by large resource exports to China, whose economy rebounded quickly after the initial GFC shock (mainly due to expansionary fiscal policy).
Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks. Following the crisis, APRA implemented the stronger global banking regulations in Australia. Together, APRA and the financial market and corporate regulator, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, have also strengthened lending standards to make the financial and private sectors more resilient.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Biggest financial crisis since the great depression is analogous to the Covid pandemic. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy, although there may have been waste, worked. As for money getting splashed around my kids and all their mates that worked at Maccas and KFC and Boost juice and all the rest of it were getting payments of $750 a week or $1500 a fortnight when they were locked down. And they were only working 10-16 hours a week. What a joke. Billions wasted. Even now my kids mates are all claiming this $750 covid payment for a positive test despite hardly any of them having it or still going to work. All you need to do is say you had a positive test and you're sweet. No checks, no confirmations, nothing. Nahh mate the two are not analogous. Melbourne shut down for 262 days in the pandemic. Zero shutdowns during the GFC. Big difference. As for the recession during the GFC, Australia was never in danger of a recession. Our banking system is regulated far beyond the rest of the world. And we're not in a recession now either. Think of the payments as a trial for a Universal Basic Income. I've always against that because of the risk of inflation...wait...I might be on to something... Melbourne is not Australia despite what Victorians may believe. How very trite. We avoided a recession because we were 'never in danger of a recession'. Case closed then. Care to explain how other OECD or European countries with highly regulated banking systems went into recessions then? Sydney locked down for 100 during pandemic. Zero during GFC. That plus Melbourne is a large chunk of the Australian economy shut down. The RBA can explai it better than I can: The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/the-global-financial-crisis.html Unlike some I actually read the links posters put up. I particularly love calling out posters who selectively quote or edit text to bolster their arguments. More so when the larger swathes of said texts don't support their position. Australia and the GFCRelatively strong economic performanceAustralia did not experience a large economic downturn or a financial crisis during the GFC. However, the pace of economic growth did slow significantly, the unemployment rate rose sharply and there was a period of heightened uncertainty. The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: - Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
- Subprime and other high-risk loans were only a small share of lending in Australia, partly because of the historical focus on lending standards by the Australian banking regulator (the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA)).
- Australia's economy was buoyed by large resource exports to China, whose economy rebounded quickly after the initial GFC shock (mainly due to expansionary fiscal policy).
Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks. Following the crisis, APRA implemented the stronger global banking regulations in Australia. Together, APRA and the financial market and corporate regulator, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, have also strengthened lending standards to make the financial and private sectors more resilient. Yeah what's your point? The Reserve Bank Board is independent of the government so the cash rate lowering had nothing to do with Labor. It was a no brainer to issue the $250k guarantee on deposits to stop a run on the banks. That may well have been enough- the spending was free money that most people were having a laugh about. You are asked why Australia fared better- I gave you the answer. It wasn't as you seem to think all down to KRudds genius of giving money away to people who were at work anyway. And drawing a parallel to the pandemic is ridiculous.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Biggest financial crisis since the great depression is analogous to the Covid pandemic. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy, although there may have been waste, worked. As for money getting splashed around my kids and all their mates that worked at Maccas and KFC and Boost juice and all the rest of it were getting payments of $750 a week or $1500 a fortnight when they were locked down. And they were only working 10-16 hours a week. What a joke. Billions wasted. Even now my kids mates are all claiming this $750 covid payment for a positive test despite hardly any of them having it or still going to work. All you need to do is say you had a positive test and you're sweet. No checks, no confirmations, nothing. Nahh mate the two are not analogous. Melbourne shut down for 262 days in the pandemic. Zero shutdowns during the GFC. Big difference. As for the recession during the GFC, Australia was never in danger of a recession. Our banking system is regulated far beyond the rest of the world. And we're not in a recession now either. Think of the payments as a trial for a Universal Basic Income. I've always against that because of the risk of inflation...wait...I might be on to something... Melbourne is not Australia despite what Victorians may believe. How very trite. We avoided a recession because we were 'never in danger of a recession'. Case closed then. Care to explain how other OECD or European countries with highly regulated banking systems went into recessions then? Sydney locked down for 100 during pandemic. Zero during GFC. That plus Melbourne is a large chunk of the Australian economy shut down. The RBA can explai it better than I can: The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/the-global-financial-crisis.html Unlike some I actually read the links posters put up. I particularly love calling out posters who selectively quote or edit text to bolster their arguments. More so when the larger swathes of said texts don't support their position. Australia and the GFCRelatively strong economic performanceAustralia did not experience a large economic downturn or a financial crisis during the GFC. However, the pace of economic growth did slow significantly, the unemployment rate rose sharply and there was a period of heightened uncertainty. The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: - Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
- Subprime and other high-risk loans were only a small share of lending in Australia, partly because of the historical focus on lending standards by the Australian banking regulator (the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA)).
- Australia's economy was buoyed by large resource exports to China, whose economy rebounded quickly after the initial GFC shock (mainly due to expansionary fiscal policy).
Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks. Following the crisis, APRA implemented the stronger global banking regulations in Australia. Together, APRA and the financial market and corporate regulator, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, have also strengthened lending standards to make the financial and private sectors more resilient. Yeah what's your point? The Reserve Bank Board is independent of the government so the cash rate lowering had nothing to do with Labor. It was a no brainer to issue the $250k guarantee on deposits to stop a run on the banks. That may well have been enough- the spending was free money that most people were having a laugh about. You are asked why Australia fared better- I gave you the answer. It wasn't as you seem to think all down to KRudds genius of giving money away to people who were at work anyway. And drawing a parallel to the pandemic is ridiculous. Sorry. Did you miss this bit? Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Biggest financial crisis since the great depression is analogous to the Covid pandemic. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy, although there may have been waste, worked. As for money getting splashed around my kids and all their mates that worked at Maccas and KFC and Boost juice and all the rest of it were getting payments of $750 a week or $1500 a fortnight when they were locked down. And they were only working 10-16 hours a week. What a joke. Billions wasted. Even now my kids mates are all claiming this $750 covid payment for a positive test despite hardly any of them having it or still going to work. All you need to do is say you had a positive test and you're sweet. No checks, no confirmations, nothing. Nahh mate the two are not analogous. Melbourne shut down for 262 days in the pandemic. Zero shutdowns during the GFC. Big difference. As for the recession during the GFC, Australia was never in danger of a recession. Our banking system is regulated far beyond the rest of the world. And we're not in a recession now either. Think of the payments as a trial for a Universal Basic Income. I've always against that because of the risk of inflation...wait...I might be on to something... Melbourne is not Australia despite what Victorians may believe. How very trite. We avoided a recession because we were 'never in danger of a recession'. Case closed then. Care to explain how other OECD or European countries with highly regulated banking systems went into recessions then? Sydney locked down for 100 during pandemic. Zero during GFC. That plus Melbourne is a large chunk of the Australian economy shut down. The RBA can explai it better than I can: The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/the-global-financial-crisis.html Unlike some I actually read the links posters put up. I particularly love calling out posters who selectively quote or edit text to bolster their arguments. More so when the larger swathes of said texts don't support their position. Australia and the GFCRelatively strong economic performanceAustralia did not experience a large economic downturn or a financial crisis during the GFC. However, the pace of economic growth did slow significantly, the unemployment rate rose sharply and there was a period of heightened uncertainty. The relatively strong performance of the Australian economy and financial system during the GFC, compared with other countries, reflected a range of factors, including: - Australian banks had very small exposures to the US housing market and US banks, partly because domestic lending was very profitable.
- Subprime and other high-risk loans were only a small share of lending in Australia, partly because of the historical focus on lending standards by the Australian banking regulator (the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA)).
- Australia's economy was buoyed by large resource exports to China, whose economy rebounded quickly after the initial GFC shock (mainly due to expansionary fiscal policy).
Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks. Following the crisis, APRA implemented the stronger global banking regulations in Australia. Together, APRA and the financial market and corporate regulator, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, have also strengthened lending standards to make the financial and private sectors more resilient. Yeah what's your point? The Reserve Bank Board is independent of the government so the cash rate lowering had nothing to do with Labor. It was a no brainer to issue the $250k guarantee on deposits to stop a run on the banks. That may well have been enough- the spending was free money that most people were having a laugh about. You are asked why Australia fared better- I gave you the answer. It wasn't as you seem to think all down to KRudds genius of giving money away to people who were at work anyway. And drawing a parallel to the pandemic is ridiculous. Sorry. Did you miss this bit? Also a large policy responseDespite the Australian financial system being in a much better position before the GFC, given the magnitude of the shock to the global economy and to confidence more broadly, there was also a large policy response in Australia to ensure that the economy did not suffer a major downturn. In particular, the Reserve Bank lowered the cash rate significantly, and the Australian Government undertook expansionary fiscal policy and provided guarantees on deposits at and bonds issued by Australian banks. Sorry did you miss the other MULTIPLE things that were responsible for Australia avoiding recession during the GFC that had nothing to do with KRudd's cash giveaways? Or that in in case, there is no parallel with the pandemic spending (where in fact Labor wanted even MORE spending)?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like.
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tsf
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Another example of looking around and LNP being responsible for what we see supposedly….
Regent theatre Flinders Street station queen vic market just a few small spaces off the top of my head that non conservatives have stepped in to save from oblivion and developers (in fact unions banned work) And what do you know, now tourist icons enjoyed by whole community and what makes the city great. Imagine this city without them? Laughable.
If conservatives had their way the world would be a desolate wasteland run on spreadsheets and bank balances. Andrews announced a world class arts precinct. Will be massive for the state and country. But what the hell do we need set for hey…..
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tsf
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And speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through.
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Muz
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Murdoch's campaign against the independents continues unabated. https://fb.watch/cNuknrJNe5/This is the state of journalism these days.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that.
Member since 2008.
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAlso $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten
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tsf
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA - so conservative values are a load of baloney B - our government has failed monumentally at the things you said they’re responsible for so what use are they?
Btw, can I order this play book online somewhere? B. How so? They have ran the economy into the ground, our worst ever modern economic managers, they have been beating the war drum for 12 months, but fall asleep from all the drumming and have let the Chinese waltz in...oh and they completely utterly botched the vaccine rollout and had something like 20 times in non-stop run aged care facilities That's an example from social, economic and defense. I could list a hundred 1. Australia has weathered the economic downturn from Covid-19 better than most developed countries: source OECD 2021 Borrow $800 billion to prop up economy and leave this fuck off massive debt problem to be kicked down the road and sorted by someone else. Brilliant. I could've done that. I'd have more respect for a clown like you if you were a little bit more fair minded. When Rudd did it during the GFC you were against it, when the LNP does it you're not. You could at least say well the LNP had to do it because of XYZ and so did Rudd. Or say Rudd should never have spent so much money and neither should the LNP. But you won't because you're the worst type of person to have a debate with. A person that will never concede a single point. They gave out $56 billion, that's BILLION, in jobkeeper in many instances to companies that increased their profits and bonuses to their CEOs. Are you OK with that? Can you concede that maybe they overegged the payments just a tad? Oh the anger...LOL. Its a once in a 100 year pandemic and vastly different from Krudd's spending as this was about getting through lock downs where people could not work. Under the GFC most Australians were having a laugh about their cash payments- we all more or less worked through it. Not so with COVID. The nation literally shut down and stayed home. No comparison. When you talk about a "deficit" what you mean is government deficit. The money didn't disappear its in the economy in private hands But not in Treasuries cofffers. Yet. I'm ok with that. Australia was the only OECD country to escape a recession during the GFC but still you can't concede that the policy That was just lucky mate. Like the foresight to bring about the largest financial decision and policy in modern history - float the dollar in 83 which has brought about massive economic change (and the LNP opposed - how strange, the party thats good with money....)
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". The only thing missing from your posts was "Let them eat cake". Meanwhile Melton, one of the fastest growing population centres in Australia after DECADES of campaigning still won't have a hospital at least by 2029 . . https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/after-decades-of-campaigning-melton-to-get-new-public-hospital-20210704-p586ow.htmlThis in a Victoria, the Massachusetts of Australia, Labor heartland. Until the last election that when 40% voted for independents. Now for the luxury of an electrified train
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town. Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia?
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tsf
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+x+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". A train station is not for the priviiged - it's called culture. It;'s how we develop our intellect and thinking - and nice things in life. A market is where we buy our food and people make a living - or are we only allowed to go to Harvey Norman or Wollies for that? FFS, what do you want, a miserble existence with 13 year olds still working in coal mines on every block.
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tsf
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten [/quote]Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town. Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia? They paid zero tax on 33 billion in income....you reckon their overheads were 33 billion? Or they used loopholes with off shores....set up by....well well well
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it.
The frustrating thing is ppl don't care.
Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones.
In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other.
That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind.
This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office?
ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it?
A grade six could manage that
Awesome handling there.
And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years.
Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition.
Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development…
thanks LNP!
It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree.
My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand.
Not sure what "national treasures" you mean?
So now you're anti medicare?
HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc.
Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles.
Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for.
HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention.
Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave.
Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet.
Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible.
You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing".
All want their sick certificate though.
Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates.
Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care.
This is you, summed up in a a nutshell.
Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job.
Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars.
So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare.
That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that.
I'm not and that's the difference between you and me.
And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system.
You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal.
That's a fact.
And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing.
Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition.
You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up.
I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right.
Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced.
Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU.
And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like.
Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare.
Increase the GST if that's what it takes.
Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that.
Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP.
Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town. Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia? [/quote]They paid zero tax on 33 billion in income....you reckon their overheads were 33 billion? Or they used loopholes with off shores....set up by....well well well Well they explained it like this: https://www.exxonmobil.com.au/News/Newsroom/ExxonMobil-Australia---Tax-FactsAnd they paid tax last year too.
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Muz
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+x+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". The only thing missing from your posts was "Let them eat cake". Meanwhile Melton, one of the fastest growing population centres in Australia after DECADES of campaigning still won't have a hospital at least by 2029 . . https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/after-decades-of-campaigning-melton-to-get-new-public-hospital-20210704-p586ow.htmlThis in a Victoria, the Massachusetts of Australia, Labor heartland. Until the last election that when 40% voted for independents. Now for the luxury of an electrified train They'll have their hospital 10 - 15 years before we get our first submarines. You know those ones we paid the French $5.5 billion dollars for. Oh I forgot. We're not getting anything for that $5.5 billion. Cool and normal.
Member since 2008.
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tsf
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten
Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town.
Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia?
They paid zero tax on 33 billion in income....you reckon their overheads were 33 billion? Or they used loopholes with off shores....set up by....well well well [/quote]Well they explained it like this: https://www.exxonmobil.com.au/News/Newsroom/ExxonMobil-Australia---Tax-FactsAnd they paid tax last year too. So now you're using an oil companies PR to defend them? Who would do that.... I won't even bother to post links, but a short search sees multiple articles from reputable sources investigating this issue. Ok here's one....the have over 500 entities in teh Bahamas - u think that's ok, cause their PR ppl wrote some wriggly BS? https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2019/03/20/top-10-tax-exxon-mobil/
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town. Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia?
They paid zero tax on 33 billion in income....you reckon their overheads were 33 billion? Or they used loopholes with off shores....set up by....well well well
Well they explained it like this: https://www.exxonmobil.com.au/News/Newsroom/ExxonMobil-Australia---Tax-FactsAnd they paid tax last year too. [/quote]So now you're using an oil companies PR to defend them? Who would do that.... I won't even bother to post links, but a short search sees multiple articles from reputable sources investigating this issue. Ok here's one....the have over 500 entities in teh Bahamas - u think that's ok, cause their PR ppl wrote some wriggly BS? https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2019/03/20/top-10-tax-exxon-mobil/ Mate he can't even write the LNP had a foreign policy failure in the Solomons despite being offered umpteen chances to do it so I hardly think he's going to pay attention to anything resembling facts.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Well if you have evidence that Exxon is telling lies then you should tell the ATO because that's tax evasion and is illegal. There is a direct line to the ATO for that. +x+x+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". The only thing missing from your posts was "Let them eat cake". Meanwhile Melton, one of the fastest growing population centres in Australia after DECADES of campaigning still won't have a hospital at least by 2029 . . https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/after-decades-of-campaigning-melton-to-get-new-public-hospital-20210704-p586ow.htmlThis in a Victoria, the Massachusetts of Australia, Labor heartland. Until the last election that when 40% voted for independents. Now for the luxury of an electrified train They'll have their hospital 10 - 15 years before we get our first submarines. You know those ones we paid the French $5.5 billion dollars for. Oh I forgot. We're not getting anything for that $5.5 billion. Cool and normal. That isn't the point but whatever lets focus on saving theatres and opera houses over actually having a hospital for one of the biggest growing areas in the country in a state governed by the party who is apparently representing the people in that area. The important thing is We Feel Good because We Did Something ( TM) aka virtue signalling. You're both caricatures of the Leftist SJW's
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Also $5.5 billion for the cancelled submarine contacts. Crickets. Might be repeating myself here but at $800 billion debt at just 2% (don't know the actual rate) interest thats $43 million dollars a day in interest. $1.8 million an hour, every hour of every day. Anything in the papers? Nope. I can remember when labour were $150 billion in debt and they never shut up about it. When they talk about media bias they should at least recognise that it swings both ways. Labor didn't have a world wide pandemic that's dragging into its fourth year. The media- even the Labor friends at Fairfax and the ABC- know that reporting on the debt will not interest the public. For a start, the public got lots a free money. Right so how is this any different from the GFC when Rudd doled out free money here, there and everywhere? Biggest financial crisis since the depression but that didn't matter apparently. The media never shut up about it. In fact they still bang on about it. The frustrating thing is ppl don't care. Some moron said to me the other day the line of 'Liberals know how to manage money'. He couldn't name one policy that increased society's wealth or living standards, and moronically listed labor ones. In the end, he shrugged his shoulders and said 'well, they're all as bad as each other. That's what the country is dealing with - people who at the end of the day don't actually have an idea or stance, no matter what they try to pretend. They just piss with the wind. This economic success has been under the coalition, and for 20 of the last 26 years. Don't tell me you believe it was all down Labor's 6 years in office? ha ha what, dig every natural resource, sell your national assets and squander 90% of it? A grade six could manage that Awesome handling there. And yet Labor couldn't be trusted to do it by the Australian public for 20 out of 26 years. Look around you. Most of what you own and enjoy has happened under the coalition. Like universitiy education, Medicare, intervening to save national treasures from development… thanks LNP! It was Labor's Dawkins that brought in HECS in 1988/89. It was Gillard that created the policy that has led to the $300,000 degree. My parents remember a time before Medicare ie Medibank They say it was better-they paid their premiums and they got to their doctors within a reasonable time-real surgeons rather than the kids in training clocking up the hours and the botched work in the public hospitals Medicare gives you today, unless you have a benevolent surgeon on hand. Not sure what "national treasures" you mean? So now you're anti medicare? HECs is/was fair enough when it started back years ago when it was a nominal amount. My HECS debt was about $12k when I finished. It's becoming a way more serious debt burden now for young people particularly in lower paid degree qualified jobs like engineering, nursing, science, veterinary science, physios etc. Not sure why you don't up and move to America where your profits-before-people, trickle-down economic theories and lack of empathy towards your fellow man is more aligned with your principles. Medicare should be a safety net, not a free for all. You think Medicare is some jewell in the crown? Go and compare the surgical outcomes of public hospitals and those of private surgeons. You get what you pay for. HECS was never fair. Its more of a burden now because Gillard said to the Uni's: charge what you want for as many places as you want. Leading to expensive degrees, over-supply of graduates, declining standards and lower paid professional degrees like the ones you mention. Why would I move when I have a government that has aligned with my principles for most of work life. You're the one who doesn't like that. You leave. Medicare should be a free for all. Private health insurance shouldn't exist or if it does then there shouldn't be perverse cross subsidisation and 'incentives' for higher earing peoples to be forced into it. Why should I pay 4 times the medicare levy/tax amount and then be forced to take out private health insurance instead of being able to be treated at a quality public hospital with quality facilities and doctors? Ridiculous. Raise taxes or the medicare levy and stop forcing people into private health. If it's that good then it should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. Full fee degrees became a thing when University funding was drastically cut forcing universities to charge higher and higher fees. What a surprise. And as you did remind us 20 of the 26 years the LNP was in government so it was mainly them responsible. You don't get it. Once you make a service free, then it gets abused by both patients and doctors. As a public hospital friend of mine said: "Half the time I;m treating the worried well coming in with trivial things, because it costs them nothing". All want their sick certificate though. Who are you going to increase the taxes on? The 50% of workers that pay nothing and will vote you out? The 20% that pay around 75% already? How much more do you want them to pay? Increasing taxes will never fly. And very few experienced surgeons will work every day for Medicare rates. No chance in hell. So now what-no wants to pay more, and only the trainees work for Medicare rates. Yep because poor people don't deserve high quality health care. This is you, summed up in a a nutshell. Fuck 'em they're poor. If they want better healthcare get a better job. Rolls eyes. As I said Medicare should be a safety net. You will not get a surgeon to do cataract surgery for $600 Medicare public rate when they charge $2000+ privately (plus theatre and aneasthetics). You'll get the registrars. So you're OK with poor people getting a lesser standard of healthcare. That's the crux isn't it? You are OK with that. I'm not and that's the difference between you and me. And before you ask me how they should pay for it they should either raise taxes or increase the medicare levy. I'm OK with paying more tax if it means a more equitable health system. You will not able to offer everyone first class standard of care without conscripting doctors outside of wartime which has been tested in Court and found to be illegal. That's a fact. And I can tell you if its you or someone you love who is given the trainee whilst someone who has not contributed a cent is given the experienced surgeon you will not accept it. Spare me the moralzing. Again this is the difference between you and me. It's not an either / or proposition. You bet your arse you can get good healthcare if you pay doctors correctly in the public health system and if that means taxes go up, taxes go up. I'd rather little Johnny gets his scoliosis fixed up by the best orthopaedic surgeon in Australia in the public system so he can spend the next 50 years paying tax and being a productive member of society rather than get butchered by some bloke we pinched from a 3rd world country (don't start me on how immoral that is) and then spend the next 50 years on welfare with an opioid addiction because it wasn't done right. Australia already taxes those who actually pay tax much more than most OECD nations. If you want higher taxes, then it needs to be spread wider. Its absurd Australia has the lowest or second lowest GST in the OECD. And it would last for a parliament period before it was inundated and the payments capped or even reduced. Its not the third world doctors that are the doing the bulk of the butchering-its the trainee registrars in the public system. Ever wonder why the doctors are so young? Because public hospitals are training hospitals. That's what you get for "free". People learning on YOU. And if you want a glimpse of what your utopia looks like, look at Britain's NHS. Accessible for the public? Sure? What are the outcomes like for them? Umm err, we' d rather not say. No-one I know who has worked under both the NHS and Australia's hybrid public/private system would choose the NHS. Thats what free universal helathcare looks like. Again I'm happy for taxes to be raised if it means equitable healthcare. Increase the GST if that's what it takes. Like I said little Johnny paying a million dollars in tax over his working life because his back was fixed properly is a great result even if the surgeon charges $25k to fix him up. What a great return on investment. You should be all over that. Funny thing is we are now taxed more under LNP. Only ppl that arn't are their donors. For example, ExxonMobil haven't paid tax for 10 years (was 30 billion in 2019) What a joke. Now might be the first year in ten [/quote]Multiple waves of income tax cuts have been announced and some implemented under the coalition to address the rise in income taxes, This is in spite of the Labor-Greens alliance announcing policies that would increase taxes and divisive campaigns by Labor based on lies eg Top End of Town. Companies pay tax on profits, not revenue. If Exxon is not, then that is tax evasion and they should be charged with criminal tax offences. Do you have evidence that Exxon avoids paying tax on profits in Australia? They paid zero tax on 33 billion in income....you reckon their overheads were 33 billion? Or they used loopholes with off shores....set up by....well well well
Well they explained it like this:
https://www.exxonmobil.com.au/News/Newsroom/ExxonMobil-Australia---Tax-Facts
And they paid tax last year too.
So now you're using an oil companies PR to defend them? Who would do that.... I won't even bother to post links, but a short search sees multiple articles from reputable sources investigating this issue. Ok here's one....the have over 500 entities in teh Bahamas - u think that's ok, cause their PR ppl wrote some wriggly BS? https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2019/03/20/top-10-tax-exxon-mobil/ [/quote]+x+x+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". The only thing missing from your posts was "Let them eat cake". Meanwhile Melton, one of the fastest growing population centres in Australia after DECADES of campaigning still won't have a hospital at least by 2029 . . https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/after-decades-of-campaigning-melton-to-get-new-public-hospital-20210704-p586ow.htmlThis in a Victoria, the Massachusetts of Australia, Labor heartland. Until the last election that when 40% voted for independents. Now for the luxury of an electrified train They'll have their hospital 10 - 15 years before we get our first submarines. You know those ones we paid the French $5.5 billion dollars for. Oh I forgot. We're not getting anything for that $5.5 billion. Cool and normal. That isn't the point but whatever lets focus on saving theatres and opera houses over actually having a hospital for one of the biggest growing areas in the country in a state governed by the party who is apparently representing the people in that area. The important thing is We Feel Good because We Did Something ( TM) aka virtue signalling. You're both caricatures of the Leftist SJW's Says the bloke who thinks poor people can suck it when it comes to health care.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+xAnd speaking of everything you see around you, next time you’re at Sydney harbour you can soak it in and thank labor for having the vision to put a country on the world map.
Where the place be without that wonderful Opera House building and the story behind it?
The funny thing is I am not even 'Labor'....I am def not greens (although I support environmental policies), in fact I have voted plenty of times in the past with a conservative (usually centre) politician. However it is impossible to stand by and see the utter contempt, destruction, selfishness and corruption these nasty LNP imbeciles have put the country and marginalised groups through. The things you're talking about-theatres opera houses, markets are things that those in privileged positions enjoy making issues of and feel good about for "preserving". A train station is not for the priviiged - it's called culture. It;'s how we develop our intellect and thinking - and nice things in life. A market is where we buy our food and people make a living - or are we only allowed to go to Harvey Norman or Wollies for that? FFS, what do you want, a miserble existence with 13 year olds still working in coal mines on every block. What do I want? How about a hospital so that babies don't die because of a lack of one ? Go and talk to hose parents about "culture" and all the "nice things in life" that you have and they don't..see how you go. Fight the inequality So this is exactly why I find leftists such so objectionable. Ignorant. Hypocrites. out of touch. Lacking in self-awareness. No capacity for self-reflection. Basically Fake. You two ARE part of the privileged that you claim to be against. You just can't see it. .
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