Foreign names on Glory list

All I'm getting from this is that they are softening us up with the spiel that OS coaches are risky and a local coach with local knowledge is the way to go.

This is firming up to be Lowe, Aloisi, Vidmar etc.

As said before, Vidmar would be the preferred choice. Anything else is just a disaster.

Edited by hotrod: 29/3/2014 02:51:51 PM

I'm not sure I get the point he's making?

it was just over a year ago It had to be a West Aussie with Glory credentials who knew the local youth scene and would promote these players. Nice to have fans with 'fluid' values.

Striker
New Striker(Smeltz)
Maclaren
Third-String Squaddie(Makeche)

Wingers
Sidnei
New Winger(Sernas/Dodd)
Harold
Squad Depth(Zahra)

Attacking Mid
Marinkovic/New #10 (REdwards)
De Silva
Squad Depth (REdwards)/Marinkovic
O'Brien*

Central Mid
New Mid (McGarry)
Cam Edwards
Squad Depth#

Defensive Mid
Griffiths (Burns)
O'Neill
Squad Depth#

Left Back
Jamieson
Woodcock*

Right Back
Risdon
Davies*

Centre Back
Thwaite
Starting CB (Gallas) - (Madaschi/Djulbic)
Clisby
Squad Depth

Goalkeeper
New GK/Vukovic
Duncan

* NYL contracts
# Either/Or
Which would leave the team something like:

-------------------Striker-------------------
Sidnei------------DDS------------Winger
-----------Midfielder-Griffiths-----------
Jamieson-Thwaite-Defender-Risdon
----------------Vukovic/GK-----------------

Subs: Duncan, Maclaren, Marinkovic, O'Neill, Clisby

Actually think Marinkovic stunts the team's ability to "transition" or regenerate. Midfield is the weakest area but you can't really bring in another #10 (especially a visa player) without restricting the spots that go elsewhere. Which means if he continues to be shit they're relying on DDS for a full season (unlikely to play half) and O'Brien (unproven) unless they bring someone in. If you bring someone in then that means you can't have an extra technical mid (#8) or another holding mid (#6) and have to choose someone that fills only one of those or is a jack-of-all trades. Either that or the CB depth, which means relying on O'Neill. After seeing both Clisby and O'Neill played out of position, I don't really think that is the way going forward to being successful either.

This is the problem when an Interim Coach can sign VISA players, just to "push" for finals. We're seeing the effects played out now.

He's not making any point, he's just preparing the ground for an Australian coach, and one who is obviously not considered a "great" coach.

The same justifications about "local knowledge" and "knowing the players" etc... were trotted out when Fergie was appointed.

Farking hell. It's probably going to be Lowe. All the recent press releases of players spouting support for him etc... all point to it.

Aloisi would be a joke and would probably create even more of an uproar than Lowe.

>Fans express desire for a new coach outside the influence of Glory (a Forienger with good credentials)
>Club publicly come out against that idea.

Oh yeah:


http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/soccer/a/21031924/glorys-final-push-is-mens-work/

:lol:


Shayne Hope = Big Bad Val? :-k

Doesn't point out that it was the Adelaide FANS that created such a backlash against what he was writing and were in full support of Gombau...which is a bad thing? :-k

Lowe doesn't promote these players. He complains incessantly about having to play them. His Glory credentials consist of being an assistant to Fergie, and both Fergie and Lowe seems to express the same values - relying on players to work out how to play, promoting effort and fight etc..., rather than crafting a footballing system in which players know their roles both on and off the ball and can play as a coherent unit.

The interest in an overseas coach is that we want Glory to actually consider a range of options instead of going for an option cos it's cheap and "he knows the players". That's not a good enough reason.

There are other West Aussie coaches with Glory credentials, but do they have the coaching experience to be successful?

Maybe Chris Coyne, but that's a big gamble given the imbalance in quality in State League squads. Coyne played mostly lower leagues, where passing football is actively discouraged.

Jamie Harnwell? He probably never had a decent coach whilst he played for Glory, has he got what it takes to understand and more importantly IMPLEMENT a good team structure?

Gareth Naven - Is probably the better option out of these three, in terms of longer coaching exp, but he has coached mainly at youth level.



Edited by GloryB: 29/3/2014 04:24:07 PM

Finkler is another of the players coming out of contract, but again we'd actually need someone more like Mooy... who has already signed elsewhere :(

We learn from past mistakes. It seemed the logical choice at the time.

Now it does not.

To repeat past choices and expect different results is stupidity.

Hence why Glory is stupid as they will repeat history.

Glory need to break from past choices

I take your *Ugh* to mean you agree that it's almost as unappealing as it is plausible that this will be the line of thinking of those who get to make this decision :p



As someone else pointed out... it would be basically typical business practice to push through the incumbent/"natural" successor on the shortlist as a means of assessing potential candidates against a tangible result. I think it's premature to think Lowe's position on any shortlist means he is at all likely to get the job, and I suspect any of the other 5 applicants will better Lowe on virtually every criteria except possibly how much they will cost.



I don't really see much point in us having Nebo and Flores unless we're either going to leave Nebo on the bench or use one of the 2 as a forward.

It's very much the players *behind* the creative attacking midfielder that we lack... I'd rather we went after a McGlinchey, Mooy, Murdocca, Partalu or Riera before we were looking at someone like Flores. Not sure which if any of those players might be available, but without them our best hope would be to find a 6'5" target man and not even bother with a midfield next season because our current options in there (discounting BO'N who we haven't seen properly) are completely inadequate.

Indeed, few better audition 'opportunities' than the one that presented Lowe upon his own 'interim' appointment. He's actually been in-charge longer than what Ali Edwards' was when he took on interim duties last season (Fergie departed late Jan), so Lowe would be and indeed is, the first to admit it's not like he wasn't given a chance.

Trying circumstances indeed, but still, he's been given more than a decent audition, stint in-charge. No mid-season boost came from it, unlike many mid-term coaching appointments, so it's been a poor return from get-go, but again, as Lowe admitted last presser, that's for the selection committee/process to judge and they too will judge whether his candidature, is capable enough to take the team forward, including the evidence of the past 4/5 months.

I'm not bashing Lowe, kind of like the guy, he has reasonable credentials too, albeit inexperienced at this level, but tough decisions need to be made and the coaching regime needs authority to exact the change necessary going forward. Unfortunately a clean cut with a 'new authority' may be necessary to do so - as clearly it's a bigger challenge than 'the average club' especially given the way Ali Edwards departed!



Hmm well that's a good thing - June sounded ludicrous! Aslong as a proper, informed, due process is followed then hopefully that presents 'for them' the right candidate/s!

There IS some comparison with AU, despite Brewer's hesitation - Kossie leaving due to suffering from the familiar Pissantitis over there - AU, to their credit, sought an 'Independent Coach Selection Committee' who albeit disbandoned when the club didn't follow their recommendation. But they must've to some degree, given they 'found' Gombau. Gombau's style/background reflects the tastes of some of the 'former committee's' members - well, Craig Foster anyway!

So Gombau was found via a process, including one guided by an 'Independent Committee' comprised of informed football pros of varying perspectives. Glory seek to do similarly, employing 'consultants' it seems for their process? Not sure of these consultants, haven't investigated their background, nor do we know if they will be 'worth the cost' till we, not unlike AU, see the outcome.

And it's all about the outcome ofcourse - No point all this rigmarole only to 'confirm' Lowe and if they were soo set on Lowe, then why not announce his re-signing/extension weeks ago, like how Heart did with JVS or what not? Clearly not though - Lowe's odds diminish, the longer the delay and the worse the results - it can't be Lowe now and I think even the club 'surely' knows that now.

Maybe Brewer is being diplomatic - but his dampening down of the Foreign coach idea, supporting the local, swings soo much in that article as to set us up against it. I don't really understand that - I can understand not wanting to get hopes up, to keep a 'balanced perspective' vis a vis foreign-local, but it should be about who's the 'best candidate' and that's what the process is about, right?

Anyway, I tend to be optimistic generally, so even despite some of PG's mistakes, I still hold out hope they may surprise us all and whether he a Gombau mk 2, something other/similar.. better :o or even just another Lavicka/JVS or local wise, a Pro-licence guy who's got the knackers aswell as vision, to exact what this squad, heck club, needs... we can only wait and see?

Edited by GloryPerth: 30/3/2014 04:12:35 AM

People have already responded, but I'll add to the practical - It's a busy thread and posts become old/pages back, fast. Not all of us can read/respond within whatever time-frame you sought/allowed. As Dave has said, we fans have discussed this to death, on and off, for years - Our discussions about this also reflects or is also reflective of, the wider trends in the league - or trends of the leading/most successful clubs. Lead by Ange and co!

Whether it Ange or it Gombau, that's the kind of coach this club may need. Foreign or Aussie doesn't matter soo much when it comes to the 'longer term vision' that most of us favour and which, indeed, Ali Edwards WAS carrying out! If the coach can not only build 'sustainable success' from a local base, but also leave a legacy for successor (Let alone a culture, like Roar), then that would be about optimum.

But short-term, to do this, this squad yearns for an overhaul, no doubt. Whether you are a club/coach seeking short term results or building medium term - either way - it's well evident this squad needs a shake up!



He didn't say that at all - he just keeps the bar high for local coaches, believing Vidmar to be the only one worthy. No need to twist his words. FTR I disagree with Hotrod there - there could be and likely are more decent Aussie candidates, it's just a matter of whether they meet our criteria, demands of the task at Glory and part of that should be, IMHO, a coach who has or is undertaking, their Pro-Licence. That naturally limits the field, including for the likes Club Legend Jamie Harnwell and respected former Glory/West Aussie football legend, Chris Coyne - for now... their time will come! Gareth Naven on the other hand - he HAS his Pro-Licence IIRC and strong experience within the Glory coaching fold, but whether he'd be willing to take on the task after the way buddy Ali Edwards was treated (Where he resigned in solidarity), guess we'll see.

Again, we should entrust in the process, aslong as the process was set up with the chance of a successful outcome - due diligence, right guidance and advice. It's all on this consultancy agency or whoever it is. Atleast they're independent AND should 'know what they are doing'... I guess?

The coach selection will reflect the process which in-turn should reflect the club's football philosophy. And like AU, in the end, the club still has final say, whether to go the independent recommendation/s or go their own way. But atleast there's an informed process, logic, and not just old fashioned guess-work performed by CEOs, Owners and Boards who lack a smidgeon of technical football knowledge between them (Something most A-L clubs were guilty of in the past, appointing coaches with lack of informed technical guidance, not just Glory)!!


BTW When you say 'just over a year ago' it was also around that time we had Ali Edwards come in as interim coach (And do reasonably well, to earn his deal)! The circumstances were also of our having Eastern States heavy squads for years, many of them overpaid pros in their prime, lapping up the paychecks on mixed form at best, then running back home to play even better, often on 'less' (Sterjovski etc...). It's little wonder we yearned for more local talent, both in the squad and even coaching ranks, as we had rarely seen it and it was one of the key recommendations of the club inquiry which involved Rick Charlesworth and co! Infact, it's thanks to Edwards that those concerns are mostly a thing of the past, the squad featuring soo many more local young stars now, with plenty of opportunities for them, that the focus naturally evolves into nurturing those stars and moulding a successful team around, via recruiting the right VISA and experienced Aussie, talent to compliment.

That's the issue now infact - it's not the younger player's fault so much, it's the the team's 'spine' or core of seniors, who are letting the team down, the players with the greater responsibility and key to the team's function and success. They've become a growing weakness, not helped by the Edwards controversy. Many of them are peaked players (Burns, McGarry, Dodd, Smeltz, Gallas...) and are needing replacement, but doing so is no easy task. It's they and some of the VISA talent needing clearing out and less the younger talent!

Edited by GloryPerth: 30/3/2014 04:43:30 AM

AE signed only 4 Local lads in the of season, and only 2 of them got game time, Ryan and Cameron. O'Brien and Evans got diddle squat.

And what is going on with the scheduling today?

1pm game in Wellington (AEDT) but 10am Beijing Time- Because China is the most populated city in that timezone

and 4 hours after the game in Wellington we have the last game of the round at 7pm AEDT, 4pm Beijing Time

What is going on? They should have scheduled the Glory to play on saturday night

EDIT and with the rain falling, not expecting much of a crowd at Nib this evening

Edited by condemned666: 30/3/2014 11:12:58 AM

Another concern about the coaching selection process is who is actually assessing the applicants. If its Sage and Brewer, how do they assess who is a great foreign coach and who is a good local coach? Are they getting in some independent advice to help them in this regard?

How will they choose between... Kenny Lowe, Gareth Naven, Chris Coyne, Jamie Harnwell, Graham Normanton, Bobby Despotovski, Gary Phillips, Aurelio Vidmar, Mark Rudan, Ante Milicic, Rado Vidosic, Arthur Papas, Michael Valkanis, Gary Van Egmond, Miron Bleiberg, John Kosmina, Branko Culina......or.....John Aloisi (ok, so surely not John Aloisi).

Edited by GloryB: 30/3/2014 12:29:40 PM

Spies at Glory HQ just sent me this photo of the final meeting to decide the next Glory coach................

The simple answer is, They did.

Both this game, and the Sat Dec 21 game, were Saturday evening fixtures on the original FFA fixtures released.
No-one wants to say whether it was Glory, FFA, Foxtel, Rugby League deciding to pop over, or whoever, but Glory seemed to have readily accepted the switch of 2 Saturday evening games to Sunday afternoons after the release of the fixtures.
Brewer's response when queried was that Glory have lobbied and been successful in getting the FFA to change the kick-off time from 2.00pm to 4.00pm to combat the heat in Perth.
My response was who cares, you've given up the Saturday evening spot so FFA wouldn't care now about kick-off time, and try fixing kick-off times in the middle of Summer like any sensible person and club would who are concerned about human welfare.

[Yes, it bugged me because I and many others plan around Glory games during the season. When the fixtures were released, the wife's family of about 30 arranged the pre Christmas family get together at my house for Sunday Dec 22. I relied on the FFA fixtures, and only knew of the change when leaving the previous Glory home game. So a clash, Glory or Family Christmas? Not to worry, will see most of them this Christmas].

Its 21 degrees in Perth this afternoon, but no, unfortunately the Perth heat should mean they will not be playing day games in Perth from early november to mid / late march, early april

Only in NSW or Melbourne can they actually be able to schedule day games for the A League in the Australian summer and games start around 4pm here. And only NSW and Victoria will they budge on postponing games to extreme heat or lightning delays

Well technically there was a "boost"
Lowe's first 6 games: 3 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss
Next 7 games: 2 draws, 5 losses

Think he came into the job that was a poisoned chalice with a lot of pressure but should never have been anything but a Caretaker, and certainly shouldn't have been signing VISA players to try and make finals.


Going to assume you don't mean the holding mid (#6), but the central midfielder (#8) who plays next to him and is the link between the midfield.

McGlinchey - left winger/midfielder who played well under Arnie when put in at #10.
Paartalu - was the holding mid/anchorman in Ange's 4-3-3. About equal to Rostyn when they were both playing, though a better passer iirc, whereas Rostyn was the better stopper.
Reira - like Paartalu. More a screening, ball-winner mid that plays deeper than a link man or technical mid would
Mooy, Murdocca - fine.

Lustica would be a good example too, not sure who Adelaide play next to Sanchez now he's gone. McKay/Miller/Broich play that role for Brisbane but in a 4-3-3 it's a little different. Sydney change around so much it's hard to keep up. I suppose Victory is also a little different but it's usually one of Milligan/Broxham.

Currently we only have CEdwards and McGarry - who plays better at #10 anyway.

As for Edwards, the game after his Dad was sacked he played really well setting up a lot of passes that were actually successful and the team looked more threatening (granted it was an average match all round). Then he wasn't played much at all until for some reason he became a #10 away from home against WSW a few games late. Then unsighted since.

It doesn't make sense to me. McGarry's looked like shit, it's a weak position and we've got a youngster who can pass rotting away in NYL whilst the team is rooted at the bottom of the table and the coach is exclaiming it's all about "performance".

Woodcock and Davies say hi.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/perthglory/news-display/glory-legend-welcomes-young-stars/62355

Also Duncan is a Perth boy.

He also RE-SIGNED O'Neill and Clisby.

So the only one he didn't sign at all was Makeche, who's now gone.

Keep beating your own agenda though.

What do you think? Shall we change the colour of our kit to match the colour of the seats at NIB Stadium? :D

You are indeed right ATE in terms of the initial run and the poisoned chalice aspect - toxic circumstances to enter into. But I slightly disagree with the VISAs, well, no long-term signings anyway - Sernas was well worthy/fair enough as IR to Dodd, an IR player was in-sight due sooner/start of season actually!

And despite things, Griffiths and Marinkovic could be productive legacies of his term here, hopefully - as too some of the younger boys signing extensions, notably Clisby and some others.



Thanks ATE - Indeed, right away Edwards not only signed De Silva, but the 2 young lads together, Davies and Woodcock. More than that - he FINALLY gave long time youth player/squaddie under Fergie, Brandon O'Neill, a genuine chance, through pre-season and early this season. What a talent that young O'Neill is - had a fantastic game today, defending very well AND reflecting excellent technique of his midfield days, going forward. Clisby, another left on the periphery by Fergie, saw elevation and greater opportunity under Edwards too.

So, technically, yes Begbie - not a swathe of youth signings, but in a refreshing change he actually gave our existing young players a chance too, when not long before they idled on the bench to inevitably leave via release (Likes of Adam Taggart, Jesse Makarounas and others...).

Maybe some credit goes to Lowe too, continuing to give some of those boys a chance since, especially this arvo, with Clisby, O'Neill (latter via sub) impressing, but it was Edwards who showed the faith and 180 degree turn in club culture, giving them the chance and Lowe has thankfully continued that somewhat.

So when one looks at it as a collective, he brought through most of the young boys we see now (Davies, Woodcock, Clisby, O'Neill, De Silva, Duncan, Edwards bros (one only a loanee) + MacLaren, temporary signing Evans and NYL O'Brien), including De Silva's record transfer to AS Roma - it's a shame we didn't utilise him more, but Edwards can't be blamed entirely for that either, but atleast we had the pleasure of the time he served here and the remuneration we get for it - nice investment in the end for a boy we hardly utilised!

The next coaching regime, whoever they may be, can now have even more faith in this young talent, as what I saw today was sufficiently impressive and shows just how promising this bunch could be, going forward.

As I have always maintained, just a few tweaks, albeit tweaks in key areas of the team, and they're a finals contender once again. This team didn't miss Smeltz, nor Gallas when he came off, aren't missing Dodd and the Burns-McGarry combo in the middle could do with upgrading. Perhaps Rostyn Griffiths could do with a good pre-season here to fine tune again and Marinkovic's stunning FK has given further glimpse as to what we may look forward to, next season.

The only disappointment and perhaps disappointing/under-performing move/legacy from Edwards is MacLaren perhaps - 3 year deal, too much and Smeltz injury aside, I think too much expected of that boy too soon, in hindsight. And again, we struggled to be effective, especially in the air, but were a changed side when Sidnei came on.

Edit: Oh and Gallas - but his extra-ordinary exception... not like that was the source of Edwards' sacking anyway.

Edited by GloryPerth: 30/3/2014 09:24:43 PM

Soooooo.........

After today's charity win against the Jerks (boy they must dread playing Glory here) how many years will Lowe be signed for???

Everything coming together nicely for the gaffer.

Sage will be pleased seeing the results coming through and this should catapult him into the last two for the Glory coach.

Looking forward to the good times ahead so we can rebuild around the Lowe revolution.

:-"

Jets are still our bunnies :lol:

Gotta say though, despite a very good (yet random) turnaround today it was still a very Meh game for the most part and we just seemed to be going through our paces. 28 free tickets were given away at ECU alone yesterday and to still end up with a paltry crowd under 6000 indicates where we're at.

What was the attendance? I didn't hear or see it announced at the game.

how did get a chance by having the Edwards brothers who have a fraction of his talent ahead of him and making him into a central defender which he is not?

Shayne Hope on Twitter was saying it was 5837.

Didn't look like that many. We rolled up 30 mins before kick off and were able park pretty much across the road. Our bay was about 1/20th full.

Sure, he (O'Neill) may not be a' Traditional CB', but heck, he did well enough this evening in that role, didn't he?!

Point is nickk - history - flick back to late Fergie era and where were we headed? Same as Mitch era - Makarounas had left in a huff, we had lost Taggart who's star has risen fast and great local young talent like Sainsbury, Babalj and Scott Galloway had bypassed Glory altogether!

Edwards had publicly and actively sought to reverse this trend and so far, it seems he (And Lowe to a degree) have indeed done so!

In regards to his sons and position - firstly, soo much made of his sons - Ryan Edwards was, in the end, only a loanee - yeah, could be argued and infact was 'successfully' by Jacob Burns FC and co, it seems, that young Ryan was overplayed/favoured, but Cameron was not soo much on evidence. Ryan E' was played at AM and wide, a more advanced role, while Cameron and Brandon could be seen to be 'competing' for that deeper DM/MC role, but again, O'Neill being an option in defence, being flexible/adaptable, gives his more opportunities too and is indeed the mark of a 'modern player'! We don't see Cameron Edwards playing full or Centre back, so that's the more credit to the capability of the likes of O'Neill! And again, these other boys (Clisby, O'Neill) did get a chance where again, they were headed for oblivion/nowhere during Fergie era and before.

Also, Edwards, a new gen coach very much groomed through the FFA's curriculum, right from the start (Sent to PSV to observe Guus in action etc.. with Okon and another etc and was Assistant TD to Baan/Berger for a period, let alone U17 coach later) - was quite possibly emulating the trend of Barca and co by converting a taller (He specifically mentioned O'Neill's growth spurt IIRC), technically capable midfielders to CBs. Gombau has mentioned this too - with Osama Malik being his own example.

Again, Lowe utilised him there, via h/t sub for injured Gallas and he put in a great performance. The signs for the future so very promising should these boys be featuring more!



Practically, I know this may sound crazy, but we already have Marinkovic contracted for the next coming season. It would be 'squad imbalance' again, something Glory have unfortunately known well, even though Flores would be a fantastic get for any A-League club. IF we didn't have Marinkovic though...

Again, some may say 'why not both?!' but the wider squad balance and team structure should take precedence and even, in the end, leaving it up to the in-coming coaching regime to make these decisions - the more they can shape this squad towards their style and philosophy going forward (In keeping with the club's philosophy, hence hiring him), the better.

That's why I'm glad they've held off on the negotiations of several presently out of contract players - sort the coaching regime out first and then he can decide on how to shape this squad!

Edit: Arrgh just catch up to the discussion between you and Bovs and agreed about Cameron Edwards, an unfortunate victim in this episode. He was never the 'bad guy' as his brother was labelled, not utilised anywhere near as much by his Dad, yet, unlike his bro he isn't only a 'loanee' who can and perhaps should retreat back to his parent club (Such a sad episode that one :/) and he's still contracted till next season. He's a worthy squaddie and a local product. Lowe or no future coaching regime can perceivably be accused of bias going forward and even then, though those original claims still remain controversial in the lingering fall out over Edwards' dismissal. None-the-less, hopefully he receives a 'clean slate' under the next coaching regime, next season, as too others. The younger brigade, as too some of the oldies, could do with some re-direction and renewed vigour going forward so hopefully the club can appoint somebody who can bring that shaping the team in the philosophy that Edwards started and that Brewer and Lowe have even agreed, is the way forward!

Edited by GloryPerth: 30/3/2014 11:34:32 PM