Im a big conspiracy theoty fan and I can see the convincing points for 911 but I am giving the US the benefit of the doubt, I just cant see how they could kill so many innocent AMERICANS. Saying that I can also see how it could have been set up by them I am just giving their humanity the benefit of the doubt

As quoted from popular mechanics:

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."


Also may I add the Twin Towers must be about the only high rise buildings to be hit by planes...

Empire State Building was hit by a B-25 bomber back in the day. Of course, it is a much smaller plane, was going about 6 times slower, and the fire was put out pretty quickly.

Conspiracy's keep life interesting. :)

FOX NEWS - the most credible :roll: news co-operation in the world - can pay whatever experts they like to give out a hypothesis. There are engineering experts who claim also that the way the building fell was that of a controlled demolition. Steel beams were pre-cut on acute angles which there are many photographs of the debris after 911 showing this.

Anyway - I'm not going to continue to feed pearls to swine. Look at the fact and figure it out for yourself. Watch Loose Change, Zietgiest...even Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 911. Including all the literature these documentaries encourage you to view on their own websites which include mainly official documents. All made in the USA.

LOL Michael Moore is the worst most biast filmaker ever (he is not a documentary maker his films have to many lies to be documentaries)

Nobody quoted Fox.

yeah unfortunately, those extremists give all of us a bad name and are not reflective of the quran in any way. actually those who do these things are not considered to be on the right path. you only fight back if you religion is in direct trouble and this is not the case except probably in palestine. its a well placed propganda machine.

You're saying that because you're a right winger. IMO Bill O'Reilly is the most opinionated, lying, canniving, peice of shit, opportunist, bias host in world televison.

For those who believe that 9/11 was what the government said it was, explain the inconsistencies at the Pentagon and the lack of significant debris/bodies at the Flight 93 crash site.

Also, about Flight 93's passengers who contacted their family on the plane, that is also exteremly inconsistent. It is near impossible to contact anybody from a normal cellphone from cruising altitude.

I know you didn't quote Fox - but they had numerous experts come on their news channel for and against - claims were just pathetically laughed at and ignorantly interrupted. But if it was for the Bush admin...oh well that's ok. :roll:

I didn't see anything biased in Bowling for Columbine...the only one I haven't seen is the new one about the ailing US Health System (another bush administration blunder). But you should watch Loose Change at least which is the best of the three I mentioned.

He says that there is a certain passage or something that can be interpreted to be encouraging terrorism/the killing of westerners but that isnt whats intended and is majorly misinterpreted and that the extremist are looked down upon by a lot of ordinary muslims. I read the first 90 pages then had to stop to read something for school, ow Im reading something else but I will get back to it soon, basicaly the plot revolves around finding a missing passage from the Quran that Mohamed dictated with his last words that shut down any possible interpretation into killing westerners or infidel but the ones who wanted to interpret it like that had all witnesses killed but the script survives in present day times with terrorists on the loose and the US are after it, really interesting read

Did you bother downloading that file I posted on the last page? There was not a "lack of debris", there was bodies all over the place. There was parts of the jet, engine, wheels, fuselage and all sorts of debris.

There are no "inconsistencies" only selective evidence brought together and mis-interpreted to come to an incorrect conclusion which was reached by the conspiracy theorists before they even looked at the evidence.

Mack, find me some footage of significant debris (engines, fuselage, etc) and I'll believe you. I have never seen any, all I have seen has been footgae of a big hole with rubbish all around it.

However, you or someone else may say that these videos either weren't taken or not released because of the graphic nature of the footage, if there were bodies and a lot of debris but who's to say that the footage taken is worse than that of the WTC collapsing and of people committing suicide?

RE: Penatgon. Explain the one hole in the outer wall before it collapsed. Explain how teh front lawn did not show the damage teh plane reportedly caused.

We were doing similarities between Bush and Hitler in History the other day, no one mentioned 911 but you could seriously compare the Pentagon side of 911 if it was set up to the Reichstag fire, the Reichstag fire gained Hitler so much more power and he blamed it on terrorists but many believe it was him. Bush blamed it on terrorists, many believe it was him and he had an excuse to get some oil because of it. Also in this book I keep talking about, The Last Prophet, it mentions that Jefferson foresaw the threat that Muslims posed to the US as they were pirates in his day that kidnapped a lot of US people and sunk many of their ships and that he wrote a lot about the Muslims in his journals which are accessible to the current President and he writes about how to deal with them and stuff....Really interesting

http://forums.randi.org/local_links.php?catid=18

Go there.

Download the first item. 9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide Download Entry

Page 45.

On the pictures of the wheels, they are very alike.

On the pictures of the fuselage, very easily plantable. Portions of fuselage such as that can be easily found at junkyards. Of course I'm not saying they were but give me a video of it actually hitting the Pentagon, which there isn't (the only one IIRC is of little quality and doesn't even show a plane)

The 3rd row of pictures: The one on the left is acceptable, the other doesn't clearly show airplane debris.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/911_90_08.jpg
Poor quality picture my apologies but I couldn't find the picture shown in the movie.

Edited by marconi101: 2/6/2009 06:08:49 PM

Isnt the pentagon one of the most sercurity tight places in the world? so you would expect a lot of sercuity cameras right? but hardly no footage? (decent angles anyways)

Wait? So I give you pictures of debris all over the place, you come back with "It's planted" and then "I want video", even though you know there isn't anything more than the video which doesn't show a plane, because it was going so fast the frames didn't catch it.

100's of people say the plane, and saw it hit the pentagon. Much of the plane itself was recovered, and all but 1 of the passengers remains were identified coming from the wreckage.

I quote you, you say:


I show you the link, the document with multiple pictures of wheels, engine, fuselage, and you come back with "It's all planted".

So was it planted or do you still think none exists?

Edited by macktheknife: 2/6/2009 06:31:23 PM

To clear things up I didn't say that, IMO I thought they were planted, I was just saying that it was a possibility that they were.
There are cameras that would have seen the plane, as .:bp:. said it's teh Pentagon; it would be littered with security cameras and yet the only ones realeased are of a low quality, small camera at a helipad and a camera at a petrol station which obly saw the smoke?

The debris exists, I'm looking at it, therefore it exists. However if there is no footage that actually shows what caused the debris all it eludes to is that there is debris next to a smoking building. It's not proof. Definitive proof is video evidence that answers questions not makes them.



Edited by marconi101: 2/6/2009 06:54:22 PM

All the 9/11 conspriacy theories are nuffin but a crock of shit. FFS.
All the Area 51 conspiracy's are a crock of shit. Hasn't anybody heard of a Air Force Base. FFS, where they keep the best attack jets etc etc etc.
All Conspiracies are usually started by overweight 27 year old virgin nerds who are at the computer all day, live in a basement with their computers and gagets and usually have an intrest in WOW.

Remember the fat nerdy bloke from DH4. name was warlock or sumfin, blokes like that idiot.

Don't confuse me with a conspriacy theorist. I just think there are inconsistencies in the original story and they should be rectified.

Edited by marconi101: 2/6/2009 07:18:02 PM

Aynone seen the South Park episode about the conspiracy of 9/11? It turned out that the conspiracy that it was the government was a conspiracy by the government as they wanted to seem more powerful when terrorists actually did it. Best episode ever.

lol I remember that episode it was fucking hilarious!!!!!

Hmmn, did you know that Bush's grandfather was convicted of aiding the Nazis in WWII (he was a banker who helped pay for the railroads that they built to concentration camps). At the outbreak of WWII, many wealthy US families wanted their government to come help Hitler's side, because they were making good profits working with the Third Reich. Dick Cheney's vision of government is pretty close to outright Fascism (althoug that's a much-abused word these days).

As for the Reichstag "false flag" event, google "Gulf of Tonkin" or take a closer look at Pearl Harbour. Or for some really interesting history, look at US involvement in Latin America and even Hawaiian islands going back a few hundred years.

I'm not anti-US, just sick of the pretense that they are always the good guys.

The invasion of Iraq was the biggest pre-planned crime in history, and John Howard was in it up to his neck (did you know he met Bush and Rupert Murdoch in NYC just 24 hours before 9/11?). We need some accountability, including a whole new 911 Commission and an Australian Royal Commission.

The dead deserve no less.

All those saying that the plane can't have crashed into the pentagon because there was no wreckage, take a look at THIS IMAGE.
That's an air crash about two years ago in Russia, there's no wreckage there either. When a pressurised metal tube hits the ground at 600km/h it disintegrates.

Moreover, how does the US government make the hundreds of people on board each plane disappear in complete and total silence?

Whether the US government knew the attacks were going to happen is a completely different question and odds are we'll never know.

Edited by afromanGT: 2/6/2009 11:13:26 PM

I read somewhere that the Isreali Spy Organistation, the Mossad, (which is easily the best spy and secret organistation in the world, they need to be, its israel) knew about the 9/11 attacks up to 12 months before they occoured, but didn't tell the Americans because it suited israel if the Americans started a war against an Arab nation.

I heard it was Colonel Mustard in the study with the candlestick 8-[ :-"

Why would they jeopardise the agreement they have with their closest ally in order to have them wage war with a country that's thousands of Kilometers away? Sounds like more speculation tbh.

It was Professor Plum, in the Kitchen with the Rope, DUH.

Edited by guest: 3/6/2009 01:47:12 AM

It has to be this guy...look how smarmy he is.

But he is a Colonel. No Officer and a Gentleman could be responsible for such atrocity.