](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

The trauma insurance is completely different to the insurance the FFA provide and you know that.

My sons fees this year will be for U/18's $240.00 of which the BDSFA and FNSW take their cut of $93.77. This means from the club side their costs are precisely $146.23. The cost is ballpark with most other assocations considering outfits, paying refs etc which is price inclusive.

Costs are what they are and are factored in from FFA right down to club level. In my opinion FNSW, BDSFA and the club side can justify their costing. The FFA cannot.

Why should the FFA put their tax on top when players get nothing in return. Players can't even get to see an A-league match on free to air TV for god sake. If you look at the AFL and the NRL the kids get to watch matches on free to air for their money.

The NRL and AFL also have the same structuring as FFA but FFA couldn't be arsed to give anything back to grass roots or the Australian public. The FFA kiddie tax is my gripe. Just what does a 5 year old get back from FFA for their money...stuff all.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 11/1/2011 03:07:41 PM

well....the FFA and FNSW are corrupt, why do we have so many reports commissioned to rectify the dramas of all our associations and federations and next to none are adopted??????

Im Victoria,my club Oakleigh Cannons, U/14's $500.

Is that for association football or PL, SYL or YL?

??????????

its park level ffv is another corrupt fish lead by the ffa

Thanks for the detailed reply, whilst I may not necessarily agree with some of your points I do understand and respect your right to have them. Clearly it is not cheap for a player(or a parent} to pay their annual registration and hopefully the FFA and rspective tsate bodies are able to find a way to make the cost of participation cheaper.

joffa how can you say that you respect but disagree with this view and not explain why? its either too expensive and it cant be justified or its not too expensive and it can be justified, with reasons

what do the FFA do? run terrible competitions kill traditional clubs kill a-league clubs tax amateur players sell tv rights to pay tv try to hostile takeover state bodies.. what do they do that is positive?

Differing views is what makes the world go around.

Any cost reduction would be welcomed by all at association level. It is my opinion there could be more done to reduce costs for the younger players and players who get no benefit from either FFA or FNSW run competitions. For example all players from 5 year old up to 10 year olds are not allowed to particpate in any competition run by FFA or FNSW. I do agree that players between 5-10 yrs should be playing non competitive for fun and learning. Therefore the levies from both FFA and FNSW should be dropped for 5 to 10 year olds. Also players above those age groups in divisions lower than 1 also really have no inclination nor desire nor allowed to participate in a FNSW competition IE: Metro league, Champions of Champions and Cup competitions. This levy could also be dropped by FFA and FNSW for players in Div 2 or lower. With regards to senior players who are not eligible or do not wish to participate (Division 2 and lower) are slugged $100 annually for something they cannot participate in. Currently senior players pay a total of $320.00 per season and 30% of this cost is a tax with no benefit for players which would be the majority of players at association level.

I am in no position to have a say with regards to changes or recommendations but if I did the above is what I would recommend.

So while I think there could be much more done by FFA and FNSW to alleviate costs for players at grass roots level, registration costs are in no way proof of corruption by FNSW. When you also factor in FFA's tax to prop up A-League bleeding costs which are induced by poor management. FFA slug a lot of people and give nothing back for their dollars. KDSFA should really jumping on FFA's head to reduce the ridiculous amount that is being paid to FFA by its members for stuff all in return.

The benefit that FNSW can justify its costing by running the competitions that associations can participate in. FFA runs nothing for grass roots and gives nothing back. Where is the value from FFA?

So in a nutshell all these cries and media hype about Jim Forrest being corrupt have no base or fact to back them up and its no suprise that Jim's running opposition for presidency is a professional media person and is using timely media influences to run smear campaigns for him. Very dirty politics in my opinion. The general football public at grass roots level can see straight through this. Kimon's big mistake is not being able to provide detailed information of how he would improve FNSW. Instead it appears he throws up generic unclear politically motivated propositions and appears to have the media running dirty smear campaigns. If this is the type of person that becomes FNSW president then we are in for big troubles. Kimon is not even from NSW and has been based for the majority of his football time in melbourne. So he really has no understanding of NSW grass roots football so his campaign is being run by alternative smear methods.

I have never met Jim Forrest personally but for many years in the past I have enjoyed dialogue with him via a public forum before he became president elect of FNSW. In my personal opinion he always came across as open and honest with an excellent understanding of grass roots football and it's needs and what issues needed to be addressed and his work has been very positive for grass roots. One thing we have to keep in mind is the FNSW presidency is an elected position and the directors of FNSW are also elected positions. The FNSW presidency is NOT a dictatorship and as such the position of directors as a group hold the balance of power when voting on proposals and policies. Perhaps there is a need for change in the directors positions but Jim Forrest is still the right man to hold the FNSW presidency. There is no doubt in my mind that he is very honest and he is doing the right job for this state in his capacity as president of FNSW.

Don't worry if there was ANY proof that Jim wasn't upfront and honest I would be calling for change too. But facts need to be dealt with in their proper perspective. Not heresay nor rumours or simply differing views. They are no proof of corruption and I've yet to read anywhere evidence of such.

Until then...Keep up the good work Jim!!

Edited by Aussiesrus: 11/1/2011 11:29:25 PM

Couldn't resist with all this misinformation about fees!

Fees for amateur players under Football NSW is as follows;

SCHEDULE OF FEES (GST INCLUSIVE) ASSOCIATION COMPETITION - AMATEUR               

Age      U/6-8   U/9   U/10-17   U/18   U19-AA
               
FFA Fee      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50   $11.50   $23.00
FNSW Insurance   $9.50   $9.50   $9.50   $9.50   $59.05
FNSW Fee   $4.88   $8.33   $11.96   $19.47   $19.47
      
Total      $25.88   $29.33   $32.96   $40.47   $101.52

FNSW self insure, so when you add in the profit they make from that both FFA and FNSW charge us all about the same to play.

Local associations add their own component on top of this, as do your local club.

For those who don't believe me - all this is on Football NSW website - http://www.footballnsw.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Policy/1018_-__Associations_Year_2011_Registration_Fees.pdf

guys just to give you what is going on with FNSW trying to fight off FFA from doing takeover thanks toa CoE that was done to stitch up some people please read the following links which will be in order so you can follow:

http://www.therealgame.com.au/blogs/lucky-laki/13/president-gets-the-call

http://www.therealgame.com.au/blogs/lucky-laki/15/strike-me-down-and-i-will-become-more-powerful-than-you-could-possibly-imagine

FFA were then sent this letter:


Dear Ms Setright


I refer to the letter by Messrs. Buckley, Sestan, Christopoulos, Hayes,
Kalac and yourself dated 19 January 2011 and wish to ask some questions
in relation to the directions being asked of FNSW members to abide by,
with the pretty clear, if implied threat, that if we do not, FNSW’s
membership of the FFA as a State Body Member will be terminated.  

1.     The Board of  Football NSW commissioned the Commission of Enquiry
and its report.   Has the Board of FFA and/or the Board of FNSW adopted
the Commission of Enquiry in its entirety?   If so when?  If not - why
not?



2.    Was the Addendum to this report commissioned by The Board of FNSW
or The Board of FFA?  If not who commissioned this Addendum and allowed
the use of confidential materials gathered by the COE?


3.    The letter by Mr Buckley states that the FFA was advised many
months after it was established.   In view of the importance recently
attached to the work of the Commission of Enquiry by FFA, when was the
FFA advised, by whom and for what reasons.



4.    Have those Directors adversely named in the Commission of Enquiry
been given the opportunity to defend themselves or appeal against the
Report in a timely, relevant or meaningful way and  prior to any action
being taken against them such as being excluded from any board position
for a period of time or requested to resign?   If so when and what were
the results of that appeal?   If not, why not?  



5.     Why was the request by members of FNSW to call for an
extraordinary General Meeting stopped by the FFA when FNSW had advised
members that this would be proceeding on the 12 March 2011?   The
resolutions put forward were to address the issues of concern to FNSW
and as required by the Corporations Act as to the procedural way
forward.  Is this not our right as members?.




6.   With regard to the ‘resignation then re-appointment to an Interim
Board of four sitting directors”,  the Addendum to the Commission of
Enquiry Report states as follows:


20. The Commission has been advised that casual vacancies have been
appointed as Directors of Football NSW in recent times. Whether those
Directors should remain or not should be considered by the members of
Football NSW.

21. The Commission cannot pass judgement on Directors it does not know
or whom have not given evidence, however, in view of the conclusions
that the Commission has made in respect of the President, Mr Jackson and
Ms Ward all who have been a part of the decision to appoint them,
consideration must be given as to whether their appointments are
appropriate.

If Members are to be asked to action point #20 above, equally we should
be afforded the opportunity to act on point #21.  Why this cherry
picking of this or that recommendation to the neglect of all the others?
Is this implicitly questioning the Commission of Enquiry report?  


7.   The Commission of Enquiry Report does not find Jim Forrest guilty
of anything other than an assumption that he allegedly did not
understand his corporation laws.  In fact the Conclusions and Findings
do not even mention him.   Yet in the Addendum it is recommended that he
be removed.  On what basis is this made as it seems to us that it
ludicrous to suggest that Mr Forrest has done things correctly and is a
man of truth in the report then the Addendum suggests otherwise.  Was
the Addendum an afterthought?  If not please explain how the FFA and the
Commissioners came to the conclusions noted in the Addendum so we can
make informed decisions.

9.   What assurances can FFA and FNSW give us as members that FNSW will
not be up for any legal action that may occur on the part of any of
those adversely named in the Commission of Enquiry report?.  

I look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.   I have been
advised via FNSW that the Sydney Branch and Mr Tom Doumanis have called
a meeting of members and clubs for Thursday 27 January 2011 to discuss
these issues.   I would like to be as informed as possible before making
such an important resolution to remove a duly elected President by its
members.

Here is more bedtime reading...from Howard Bradley, Robert Waddell and Michael Webber in response to the CoE that went out today....iti is long so I have uploaded it

http://www.yousendit.com/download/bFlFbGtIcHZPSHhjR0E9PQ

In case you cant open it copy and past link below into your browser.
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1032546855/4af2a6a8e84bbe0c692b09ab1adf461f

There is definitely anomalies in the report it seems, Problem the motive behind the report and who is left standing. Ladies and gents that is where the truth lies and it will be exposed.

For those that may not have seen it below is the extract of the resolutions that the members of FNSW placed for their EGM scheduled for 12 march 2010 (which by the way the board chose the date and over the 21 days requested for EGM but the FFA put a stop to). You can see members are more than capable of fixing their own problems without interference.


 1. That Football NSW appoints an independent panel to review all aspects of (i) the Riverstone project and their impacts on the operations of Football NSW; and (ii) insurance fees and their relationship to capitation fees.   This review to be set up forthwith and completed within three (3) months and presented to Members.
 
2.     That Football NSW, in cooperation with Football Federation Australia, commission a review into the governance structure of Football NSW, focusing especially on the structure of the Board of FNSW.  This review to be set up forthwith and completed within six (6) months and presented to Members.
 
3.  That the postponed 2010 AGM of Football NSW and associated elections for the Board be held not later than 31st March 2011.
 
4.  That following the conclusion of the postponed AGM, the Board shall call a general Meeting  to recommend to the Board of Football NSW persons to fill any casual vacancies left outstanding after the elections at the AGM."

NOTE. this obviously wasn't good enough for FFA. Question: WHY?

then we get to VP OF FNSW

DCFCman - please explain how remaining directors are doing the right thing by standing aside In case you haven't read FFA wants those same directors to resign and then be placed back on the board!!!

Also I will reprint an extract from an email us members received when Robert Sestan was running for vice president in 8 december 2009

"It is on public record that I was one of only three directors out of six at Soccer Australia who was prepared to resign from the position of director of the board of Soccer Australia in order to allow the elevation of Mr Frank Lowy and his team to take control over the national body.
It is with some pride and integrity that I can say that I played a pivotal role in the
handover of control of the national body into the stewardship of Mr Frank Lowy as proposed in the Crawford Report at that time which ushered in a new era of football
administration in this country which by the way was long overdue"

Let's continue with another statement from same email:

"As members I ask you to carefully consider the ramifications of electing an existing Board

member to the position of Vice President.

 

"Not only would this be an exercise in moving deckchairs, but it would also create a casual

vacancy on the Board.

 

"As you might not be aware, in that situation members would not be afforded their

Democratic right to directly elect a person to that vacant position. Rather, the position would

be filled internally by the Board members themselves.

 

"Is this the type of governance from your governing body that you as a member will tolerate?


Strange isn't Mr Sestan now asking us to tolerate it in the letter be cosigned with FFA? Do they really think we are stupid and cannot read between the lines that this CoE was used to set up people so that it would free up the board and deals done to allow the FFA to have the control they have always wanted. Ladies and gents it has not been the assets but rather they needed to get rid of Jim Forrest because he stood up to the FFA. Now thanks to the report and mr sestN who is used to giving way to Lowy they can have control and run it the way they want. Oh and for good measure you will see that thre will be one duper club aligned to each district. In the southern district who do you think wi survive? Bonnerigg? Marconi? Or Sydney united considering that theboard to do the review comprises of three Sydney united people besides Steven Hayes.

Wake up members you are getting the biggest con job of the century. Jim Forrest whether you like him or not was up to the members to remove not the FFA!!!!

As one comment on the realgame posted herre here:

The FFA propose to adopt the Mark Arbib school of politics which rocks the very foundation of democracy and what this country represents. This is autocratic rule at its ugliest. Regardless of what one may think of Jim Forrest, he was elected by the voting members of FNSW and it is for those members to decide if he should leave or be re elected NOT the FFA's. Jim Forrest doubters should now applaud him for his leadership and stance in protecting members' rights."FFA, we thank you for the bouncing Red Kangaroo and the cosmetically enhanced Crocodile Dundee in your World Cup 2022 bid. We thank you for your appointments of German 'fixer' Herr Fedor Radmann and Swiss conman and debt dodger Peter Hargitay (star in The Secret World of FIFA: Bribes, Vote-Rigging and ticket Scandals) in heading up our bid. You've shown us your acumen in making your own "appointments". Please do not inflict them upon the members of FNSW. Get your own product right first and then come back to us.

Go to following site and follow it. Makes for interesting reading.

http://www.nswyouthfootball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=youthleaguechat&action=display&thread=1194&page=2

My club has structured our fee's at:

$220 - Senior (Non Student/Concession)
$190 - Senior Student/Concession
$100 - Junior Aged 10-18
$90 - Small Sided Juniors

We're affiliated with the FFV, and of that money we recieve we generally take $20 per registration after all fee's are paid to FFV, our league, etc.

We're more expensive than AFL, mainly due to the bullshit insurance cover we have with the FFV. It would be allright if people could actually get a claim through, we've had 2 broken legs while on the park as well as broken wrist, and none of these guys recieved a cent afaik.

The whole thing stinks.

1. First off FFA skim the cream off every kid in Australia's rego fees to prop up a failing A-League.
2. They refused the right of every kid in Australia to see their national side on Free To Air TV including Asian Cup Finals.
3. They refuse the right of every kid who's fees they rip off to watch one A-League match a week.
4. Now they want to take away the right of democracy by FNSW clubs to have their elected president run FNSW.
5. They want to rip off every kid and every club in NSW and trash it so they can hands their hands on the FNSW coffers which is building the world class complex at riverstone.

FFA go take a hike. Your a disgrace to this country. We don't want your Hitler style of rule here in NSW. Get your own business in order first before trying to rule our business of FNSW for the people of NSW.



Edited by Aussiesrus: 30/1/2011 11:31:04 PM

This man is 100% correct for further support of the FFA charges see:
http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/files/7250/files/registrations/MyFootballClub/MFC%20Registration%20Package%20Set-up_Regional%20Clubs%20Affiliated%20to%20a%20Regional%20Association.pdf

http://www.myfootballclub.com.au/2010Registration/Club%20Resources/MFC%20Manual%20-%20Fees.pdf

http://www.sunshinecoastfootball.com.au/cms/fckeditor/editor/userfiles/file/2011%20FQ_FFA%20Registration%20Fee%20Break%20Down.pdf

Here is a letter about the fees purpose: http://www.capitalfootball.com.au/userfiles/file/Finance/FFA%20letter%20to%20Club%20Presidents%20re%20NRFs.pdf

Here is a FNSW circular from last year about fees: http://www.soccernsw.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Circulars/Associations_Year_2010_Registration_Fees.pdf

Here is another link about the NRF: http://www.belnorth.org/men-business-library/39-art-business-library-fees.html

How about another link detailing the FFA cost of player registrations: http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/files/7250/files/registrations/2011%20Fee%20Schedule%20-%20Final.pdf

So far everything about the 2011 registration fees states that the FFA component of Junior registrations is $11.50, they are really milking our juniors for everything they can aren't they?

I assume that $11.50 is the cream?

interesting readings

General Ashnak, I find it interesting in all the references to Fees you gave that explained the fees, there wasn't one FNSW document. FNSW harp on about the FFA NRF, but then hide their fee within team fees charged by associations or in a catchall fee that includes FFA NRF, Insurance, and their fee.

Personally I have no issue with either bodies fees. The sport currently doesn't have a large enough broadcast revenue stream to fund downwards - like AFL and NRL does - so until that changes in 2013 at the earliest, the sport will continue to need to be funded bottom up - whether we like it or not.

I do have a problem with the lack of transparency, especially by FNSW with the fees.

We are in the most competitive sports market in the world. If football wants to be taken seriously, then we need to stop squabbling amongst ourselves, put some strong plans and governance in place, and get qualified people to run the game.

I will never forget the story of AFL commissioners popping champagne in their box at the MCG at the end of the Iran game - probably cracked a bottle or two after the bid announcement too.

We gotta pull together and look at the bigger picture of what's going on!

so John whos going to win the fight?

FFA or FNSW?

Fnsw are going to win. Wait for next explosion. Will keep you updated.

Edited by john: 2/2/2011 01:28:22 AM

People need to remember that the player levy was introduced years ago by Soccer Australia in an attempt to clear their own debts. They were widely criticised for it by everyone at all levels of the game. Many people even used it as a stick to beat the sport with. Fair enough, hard to argue. Kids/parents shouldnt have to be punished for mismanagement at the top.

So then SA is disbanded and the bright, brilliant world of New Football came in. Yay... everyone is excited, we've got proper businessman running the sport... corporate Australia is getting behind us... participation is at an all-time high... Fox Sports is pumping 120mil into the game over 7 years... we're in Asia... we've been to 2 consecutive WCs after 30 years of heartbreak. Things are awesome... the dark days of Soccer Australia are behind us!!

So... erm... why didnt the FFA abolish the junior levy? They did the opposite, actually... I believe they may have increased it? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, the need for that Levy should have gone along with SA. Why is it still there?

Everyone had a problem with it 10 years ago but suddenly people can see the benefits and are happy to try justify it. I guess it's ok as long as it's helping to subsidise the massive losses the A-League sees every year :roll:

I tried very hard to find FNSW documents that detail the fees breakdown but there wasn't anything that was public domain. Was pretty fustrating actually, especially when so many other ones was just a matter of reading a single document and there it was all laid out nice and neat.

The loser will be football in NSW - as has been for the last 15 years.

Have a look at FFA's National Registration Regulations - section 4.10 Registration Fees - http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/site/_content/document/00000360-source.pdf

It actually says clubs need to show a breakdown of fees (including the FFA Levy) - they are wanting to be transparent - all the other state federations are being transparent and showing their fees - why doesn't FNSW show their and ignore FFA's regulations? Maybe they don't want to be transparent?

You can argue about how FFA spend their money - but at least they tell you how much they are taking off you!

Couldn't agree with you more Mr - so one of the various FNSW factions wins - great - then we wait to see AFL or NRL steamroll us - great victory I'm sure

Back to being an insignificant sport in Australia again ...

For all those people who love to play the power games at FNSW - go down to your local club and ask an U6 parent to explain who FNSW is and who FFA is and the difference and what they provide their kids - they will have no idea. Ask them who the Socceroos or Sydney FC are .... bet they know who they are! FNSW and FFA are just administrative bodies with little relevance unless they deliver services to their stakeholder ... wake up

bump... so is anyone going to bother trying to respond to this?

They won't because it doesn't suit their agenda :-"

i wouldnt hold your breathe.