IMO, they should allow maybe two state league clubs into the A-League per season as guests, only for that season. Change them every year, and don't have relegation for current clubs.

Edited by Freddie AppsHero: 14/2/2013 09:14:16 PM

:lol: :lol: oh god. So have semi pro teams getting smashed every week by pro teams.

That doesn't comply with FIFA's principle that promotion /relegation must principally be on football merit.

Edited by gyfox: 14/2/2013 09:16:41 PM

I think you're underestimating the state league clubs.

Heres a Idea: Have a last from a1 vs first from a2 play-off to please those corrupt twats at the afc, but put in ridiculous rule like goals for the a1 side counts as 2 and the a1 side gets a 5 goal advantage to start with.

Football is not big enough here yet and not enough supporters to have a relegation style format you see in Europe. One team being relegated for another could work maby if they could come up with a good concept.

Smell the fear. As soon as a club goes down it's abandon ship for these forumites. Football without relegation is boring. You're boring and so is the A-League. If your team can't stay up then they shouldn't be in the A-League.

I have trouble reading this, each time all I hear is

"Give me my club back you meanies!"

My club would still exist if we had relegation.

HERE HERE macktheknife,=d> =d> =d>

The only way prom/reg will work if football is the number 1 sport in australia, even then populations are to far spread out and we dont have a big population to begin with.

Hell even the MLS dose not have it, that is the league that is most like ours, a distant 4th in terms of support. The states have a far bigger population than us, but it will become death of the league if they do it. They just like us are not a football culture, deal with it people.

We all know the AFC has a west Asia bias, the only reason this talk continues is to appease the almighty overlords. They got to much money so they do what ever suits them best. Rather than doing it things our way in our own time, they dont care about sustainable development of smaller nations leagues.

I cant wait for the west/east Asia split and Oceania joining east Asia. makes sense in my mind anyway.

I can only see promotion of the NPL or APL teams once we have got teams in key markets like ACT, TAS, another sydney area team, NQLD, 2nd brisbane area (gc/sc/ipswitch) team.

I think we are to European in the way we think about football. We need to look at some of the "craziness" in the Americas they do things differently, why cant we. play offs to decide who the champions are, fancy that?

I agree with this. However, I do think it will be a while. Assume 5 years to the start. Then for the next 5 - 10 years there will teams offered to be promoted - without any relegation. Not all teams will take it up - they won't have the money or the infrastructure. Once we reach 16 teams then we can think about real promotion/relegation. It looks like 10-15 years away to me.

Edited by patjennings: 14/2/2013 10:05:50 PM

One problem with a lot of negative assumptions about a second division, is its based on the preconception that all clubs should be equal or close to it. Yes i know this is the holy grail of strayan (anti-)sport but its not really going to work with two divs and pro/rel.

Small teams and big clubs are going to have to coexist for it to work. If there is competition just to stay in the division this is not such a big deal, as there is more than one contest going on within the league season. Whether this is 'saleable' to aussies conditioned to equalisation...who knows...i think it gives football a point of difference and one that many football people (and others) are familiar with from elsewhere.

And it is decidedly more sporting to have a system of entry into the league based on performance on the pitch, pro/rel....vs other sports where they beg the league board and plead a purely commercial case. Plus it also takes away the ceiling on the growth of the super clubs. The last thing the really successful clubs like MV or WSW need is a disincentive to be successful which is what caps do. Success in drawing fans and corporate support should be more reflective of their operating budget (incl Wages) than has been the case so far.

Why be afraid of successful clubs? Its a soft cawk approach to try and hand-hold the league to maintain some lame 'level playing field'. Take away the socialist equalisation measures and let them at it. To be viable though, there probably has to be a range of clubs operating at MV level thru to regional teams with the equivalent budgets of a semi pro NYL squad.

Edited by blacka: 14/2/2013 10:00:04 PM

No, it will not work in our lifetime.

Most A-league clubs are in precarious positions as it is.

As far as keeping the AFC happy, then winning the damned thing or consistently placing will be good enouph to secure 2 places and that all we deserve any way. Be very hard for them to take those two places.

Firstly, Promotion/Relegation will just not work in Australia. We are too big geographically and too small population wise. Unlike European countries where 20m, 40m, 60million+ people fit into countries as big as Victria.

Secondly, we live in an AFL and NRL centric society. Football is not the biggest sport (at the moment) so there isn't enough interest and fans and therefore money to sustain those clubs which are promoted.

Thirdly, apart from several cities in England/Spain/Italy/Germany/Greece which have two massive teams, the rest of the teams are usually, one club per city so most of the time, everyone from that city will follow that club. We don't have this in Australia (see point 2).

Fourthly, the HAL does not have enough teams to support a P/R system. We need at least 16 teams before you can even consider P/R.

Fifthly, whoever said a league with no promotion/relegation is boring or just not football, why? It works for the AFL and NRL to have a certain amount of clubs, which have strong support, get big crowds, big memberships and then expand into areas when the time is right, why can't it work for the A-League?

My own personal opinion is, this NPL is great to keep the Old Soccer clubs happy for now. All the federations will be aligned with the same system and it will give some of those clubs that national representation they yearn, especially for the NSL teams.

Increasing the number of clubs in the A-League should be done strategically, logically and rationally. i.e. Bring back Northern Fury, Gold Coast and Auckland...venture into Canberra, Tasmania, Illawarra and Geelong. Major centres with a population to sustain a club and where it would thrive when done right.

If I recall correctly, the AFC said we had to get a minimum of 600 points to demand more ACL spots and we were sitting around 570 odd. An FFA Cup will give us enough points to get over that 600 threshold and get back at least another full spot. We don't NEED Promotion/Relegation though I understand it's a "nice to have".

The finals series is Australia's version of pro/rel.

I dont get it.

We have 6 teams fighting for 2 positions, isn't that a scrape fest of under preforming teams trying to make something of the season in the hope to get into the championship rounds. rather than a battle to avoid something negative (demotion) but a battle for something positive (win a shiny toilet seat).

The thing that all of the recent debate about promotion/relegation proves is that even the hardcore A-League fans acknowledge that their clubs can not survive without the artificial security of the A-league.

They complain when the league and it's franchise system is described as 'plastic' then desperately seek to protect that artificiality at the first sign of a threat.

Those of us who support teams that have survived 'relegation' are quite enjoying all the debate.

In short - have some faith in the teams that you claim to support 'til you die. ;)

South Melbourne didn't get relegated, they just didnt get invited, you are like the fat kids who no one wants to play with.;)

Edited by aussie4ever4: 14/2/2013 11:15:06 PM

This! FFS people it is a long term prospect, all you gloom merchants can go join the bitters with your unaspirational views, actually the bitters actually are to optimistic for you lot - they at least can see how their clubs could compete at HAL level are aren't afraid of the fight to succeed. You lot have already flown the white flag.

Your claim that the league is 'plastic' because it doesn't have promotion and relegation is outlandish.

Not having promotion and relegation isn't 'plastic'.

It's realistic.

Our leagues are closed systems for blatantly obvious reasons.

Don't generalise me with these cowards, AUFC would survive no problems.

It's pretty obvious why the ex-NSL bitters want Promotion/Relegation.

Just like we see with Chris and his anti-Heart crusade, they are willing to burn the league to the ground (for the second time) for the chance to get back into the top flight without having to change their mono-ethnic, non-broad based clubs built exclusively on the sole ancestry of an overseas nation.

Even if it kills broad-based clubs in the process.

Even if it destroys the league again.

It's cute you think that.

What a load of rubbish. If you are that scared of change or risk then why do you get out of bed every day?

Mackontheattack! it rhymes, i like it, i should be a poet.

So far the only argument against is fear, no matter how you try and dress it up.

At least franchise clubs are having a crack at the big time unlike piddly clubs like South who will always be miniature by comparison so will have to throw stones at the 'fwanchise' clubs to compensate and feel big.

And it wasn't so much that South "survived" as much as it was they were bailed out by some investors (who they later stiffed) were shown mercy by creditors and currently bankrolled by the filthy taxpayers.

I'd probably support a promotion/relegation system if ex NSL clubs supporters weren't such twats.

Edited by rusty: 14/2/2013 11:32:58 PM

Which is why I said 'relegated' (note the inverted commas)

The point is - we were in the top league, then we weren't, yet we are still here. It can be done. Don't fear it - just try to avoid it.

A very appropriate fear that there won't be a league to support if pro/rel comes into affect. The "fear" is very warranted.