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Chilugal
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Erebus wrote:
The Bible actually never mentions Hell.

I've enjoyed reading what you've posted so far Erebus but this statement is incorrect. This was on the History channel? Here's just a few verses mentioning hell:

Old Testament:

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Isaiah 14:12&15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

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Quote:
*ahem* Julius Caesar was around 50BC, before Jesus was born!
Damn you Monty Python!!

Did you read my explanation Chilugal?
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charonis wrote:
Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:
And dont forget... The modern Bible was written by Julius Cesar and a table of wealthy rulers. Its all fairy tales


Julius Caesar writing the bible?

W...


T...



F??!?!?

He's not far wrong. The modern bible was written by emperor Constantine on his deathbed so that he could die holy atleast in his own mind, if nobodyleses.

The thing you have to remember with religion is that it's all just everybody arguing over who has the bigger, better imaginary friend. Man has always asked questions and you'll find that the old testament answers all the basic questions in life. People trying to answer simple questions without knowing the real answer. It's like the Telstra advert..."To keep the rabbits out" etc.

Another thing you need to remember is that many sections of the bible, specifically the sections where Jesus performed his 'miracles', were first written around 50 years after the man's death. IF we can't get the final days of WWII straight with all the mod cons of print media and photography and print media, how on earth can they be expected to report events accurately without such things?

Then ofcourse there's the glaring contradictions in the text. I have no doubt that Jesus was a real person, the fact that he was a prophet in Islam and heard of as far away as ancient Gaul confirms this, I refuse to believe he did many of the things that were claimed. And for religious Zealouts to claim simply "prove it didn't happen" is complete bullshit. In that case, I believe a million years ago, mankind was the spawn of a giant, rabid chicken sent from a far away planet to pouplate and sodomise (almost sounds like scientology doesn't it?). What's that you say?? Absolute bullshit?? Well, prove it didn't happen.

Islam isn't much better, it's the core values of most modern christian beliefs, torn appart and contorted by the media and extremists.

As for my own religious preference...I'm a Dyslexic Agnostic Insomniac, I lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.

btw, chilulgal - not all your quotes mentioning hell actually mention hell, namely Matthew 25:41
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afromanGT wrote:
As for my own religious preference...I'm a Dyslexic Agnostic Insomniac, I lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.


Dont wanna give you too much glory but that was funny.
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AfromanGT wrote:
btw, chilulgal - not all your quotes mentioning hell actually mention hell, namely Matthew 25:41


Whilst it doesn't directly mention the word 'hell', It's fairly obvious for mine that its referring to it.


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Quote:
Dont wanna give you too much glory but that was funny.

That line's an old one, I've used it before...the point of the exercise was to point out that 'god' is simply an anagram of 'god'...but thankyou.
Quote:

Whilst it doesn't directly mention the word 'hell', It's fairly obvious for mine that its referring to it.

The point Erebus made was that the bible "never directly mentioned hell". Chilulgal was saying it did, and was pointing out where it did...but it clearly doesn't in that passage.
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Erebus never used the word 'directly', just said that the bible never mentions hell. Unless you can come up with another place filled with everlasting flames, inhabited by the devil and his angels, I'd say its mentioning hell.

Edited by Funky Munky: 12/9/2008 11:45:49 PM
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ok, my bad on the 'directly' part.
But there is Styx en route to Hades that has everlasting flames, a 'devil' and 'angels' (if you will).
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Not 'THE' devil though. But yes, point taken.
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If the Devil was created to scare people (incl adults), then I must have been a real pussy as a kid, with the whole notion of the boogey man and all. :lol:
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Quote:
Not 'THE' devil though. But yes, point taken.

I knew you'd say that. But you want to get into specifics when you're the one arguing about the specificity of Hell being mentioned?
The devil was simply created as an alternative to 'god', since 'god' was meant to be responsible for all good that happened, they needed a fall guy to maintain their credibility back in the day.
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afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
Not 'THE' devil though. But yes, point taken.

I knew you'd say that. But you want to get into specifics when you're the one arguing about the specificity of Hell being mentioned?
The devil was simply created as an alternative to 'god', since 'god' was meant to be responsible for all good that happened, they needed a fall guy to maintain their credibility back in the day.


Wah? I wasn't trying to start an argument there, just saying theres a difference between reffering to devils/demons and the devil/lucifer/satan.

And anyway, don't you know there aint no devil, there's just god when he's drunk:p
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Wah? I wasn't trying to start an argument there, just saying theres a difference between reffering to devils/demons and the devil/lucifer/satan.

In the end there is some kind of 'underworld' figure in just about all religions, including the dead religions like Greek Mythology etc. But that's to be expected when Christianity is just a meshing of every religion.
Quote:
don't you know there aint no devil, there's just god when he's drunk:P

:lol:I was wondering if that was going to be mentioned. I remember that MSN name:P
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afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
Wah? I wasn't trying to start an argument there, just saying theres a difference between reffering to devils/demons and the devil/lucifer/satan.

In the end there is some kind of 'underworld' figure in just about all religions, including the dead religions like Greek Mythology etc. But that's to be expected when Christianity is just a meshing of every religion.

Of course...that goes for everything though, you can't have a 'good' force, without having a 'bad' force, matter/anti-matter, ying-yang etc etc.

AfromanGT wrote:
Quote:
don't you know there aint no devil, there's just god when he's drunk:P

:lol:I was wondering if that was going to be mentioned. I remember that MSN name:P

Tis a top quote, good song too.
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Of course...that goes for everything though, you can't have a 'good' force, without having a 'bad' force, matter/anti-matter, ying-yang etc etc.

Jedi/sith, Liverpool/Man Utd :P
Chilugal
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martyB wrote:
Did you read my explanation Chilugal?

I did marty thanks, I also replied. Hard to keep track of everything.

afromanGT wrote:
btw, chilulgal - not all your quotes mentioning hell actually mention hell, namely Matthew 25:41

Refers to it but fair point. The other 7 out of 8 still stand.

As commented this thread has been somewhat pointless, but entertaining none the less. I'm going to follow in Nico's footsteps and try not to comment anymore, I'm always limited on time and I'd much rather be reading about football.

johnsmith where did you go? Sorry if I hijacked. Good to see other Bible believing Christians around like Spooney, we're a dying breed methinks.

Edit: oh, one last thing. The Bible written by Rome? :lol:

Edited by Chilugal: 13/9/2008 10:31:42 AM
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Chilugal wrote:

johnsmith where did you go?


I'll be back ... Arnie said.

This weekend, I'm taking the kids out.

Will respond soon.
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How about noahs ark? How did he keep 10 billion species on one boat? How did he distribute all marsupials to australia?

This is the video that will silence all of you.

[youtube]JXvnz-p6Lm8[/youtube]

Edited by mk0825: 13/9/2008 11:50:43 AM
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johnsmith wrote:
Chilugal wrote:

johnsmith where did you go?


I'll be back ... Arnie said.

This weekend, I'm taking the kids out.

Will respond soon.


If they play up dont forget to stone them to death. Thats what it tells you to do in the bible.
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mk0825 wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
Chilugal wrote:

johnsmith where did you go?


I'll be back ... Arnie said.

This weekend, I'm taking the kids out.

Will respond soon.


If they play up dont forget to stone them to death. Thats what it tells you to do in the bible.


What a fucking pathetically stupid thing to say.
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I know I wasn't going to post again... BUT :P I just want to point out that the clip mk posted points out the some of the problems I was trying to point out about using the Bible as morality, which always seems to be used as a reason why Religion is still good even if not true...

And that kind of reply isn't necessary or helpful mk, its just provocative.


Edited by Nico: 13/9/2008 01:04:06 PM
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Just saying what the guy in the video said. You guys have to be fully committed. You cant just choose the parts you want to obey. Well you can. You just cant call yourself a christian. :)
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Nico wrote:
I know I wasn't going to post again... BUT :P

Don't worry, I know what you mean. :P

I gave the video a chance and watched the first two so called "inaccuracies". Before I comment on that I just realised that's Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic Magazine. I give him credit because he's a very intelligent man and correct on many many things, but you'll be hard pressed to find a man who hates Christianity more.

1st point: Genesis Chapter 1 & 2 are not different versions of the same story. Genesis Chapter 1 is the 6 day (+7th day rest) creation story in summary. Genesis Chapter 2 is solely the events of day 6 in the Garden of Eden. So it's the first day of man and what he got up to and ends with the creation of Eve. So there's no contradiction or different versions, just day six alone in more detail. So Michael Shermer is either misinformed or purposely misleading the viewer.

2nd point: Noah didn't take 10 billion species of animal. Firstly he didn't need to take all marine creatures or insects, only those who use nostrils to breath (Gen 7:22). Secondly Noah didn't divide animals according to species but by "type" (Gen 7:14). So for example Noah didn't need to take the 30+ species of dog, he most probably only took 2 dogs, maybe a wolf type dog which we get all our 300+ breeds of dogs today. So Michael Shermer is either misinformed or purposely misleading the viewer.

mk0825 your video may convince the ignorant but it's already lost all credibility in my book.
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Chilugal wrote:
mk0825 your video may convince the ignorant but it's already lost all credibility in my book.


Faith > Fact. What may or may not happen > God-damn Proof.

The way you can swallow all the bullshit sandwiches the bible hands out then dismiss rationality is amazing. The way you guys have an answer for everything proves that christianity is the worlds greatest cult. Its the perfect cult. Everyone caught up in it has answers. Its fucking amazing.

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Who cares what people believe but stop trying to prove them wrong. It dosent matter they chose to belive in religions if you dont agree keep that to yourself rather than trying to force them to change their views if you dont like it dont comment on it. I dont agree with alot of religions but i dont pull aside a follower of a religion and tell them why its all bull shit.
And yes i am catholic but only in the extent that i go to a catholic school and have been both baptized and confirmed i also challenge alot of bible stories so idont really care myslef but i can see that alot of others do take it seriously
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Im not forcing then to stop believing. Im just asking them to open their eyes. They seem to just shut the door on anything remotely truthful.

The bible is so outdated. What people should believe in is science. If you choose to live by the bible then IMO you should be fully committed to it. You should shoot the people who believe the earth is spherical, you should kill your children if they are disobedient and you should never sin.

Also if god is happy for you to repent your sins whenever why dont you live a joyous life (masturbation, pre marital sex and all) then repent before you die?
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mk0825 wrote:
If you choose to live by the bible then IMO you should be fully committed to it. You should shoot the people who believe the earth is spherical, you should kill your children if they are disobedient and you should never sin.


To be fair, I live by laws, yet to say I have never broken them is a lie. I don't consider myself a criminal, yet I have bought minors alcohol, drank as a minor, driven way too fast, etc. Most people would be similar I would have thought. Its like saying YOU have to believe in what Pac raps about cause you like him - which would be God, and also therefore contradict what you are saying.


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Yeah i 'like' tupac. People dont just 'like' God.
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Quote:
You cant just choose the parts you want to obey. Well you can. You just cant call yourself a christian.

That's Presbyterianism. And from what I can gather, that's pretty much a religion based entirely around tea.
The thing with religion is, people shop around for the right church, so to speak, and find a church that suits their lifestyle rather than adapting their lifestyle to suit the religion. I have a friend who goes to church on a Friday to 'repent' for her week of sins, but behaves how she likes during the week and believes that is how religion is supposed to work.
Religion is meant to be as much about lifestyle as it is what you believe in.

I don't remember who said it but "It's not god that i have a problem with, it's his fan club".

Edited by afromanGT: 13/9/2008 09:25:29 PM
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afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
You cant just choose the parts you want to obey. Well you can. You just cant call yourself a christian.

That's Presbyterianism. And from what I can gather, that's pretty much a religion based entirely around tea.
The thing with religion is, people shop around for the right church, so to speak, and find a church that suits their lifestyle rather than adapting their lifestyle to suit the religion. I have a friend who goes to church on a Friday to 'repent' for her week of sins, but behaves how she likes during the week and believes that is how religion is supposed to work.
Religion is meant to be as much about lifestyle as it is what you believe in.

I don't remember who said it but "It's not god that i have a problem with, it's his fan club".

Edited by afromanGT: 13/9/2008 09:25:29 PM


Whats the point? Youre saying she looked around for a church that practiced what she already does, just so she could put a label on herself? She didnt have to change a thing???
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