Mods please close if this really doesn’t warrent a new thread but I actually want to centralise the discussion based around some new ideas and concepts, and if it would actually work, or flop.

We all know Australian sporting culture knows only one system, a closed shop top tier with centralised funding In a non-competitive salary capped league designed to keep interest in a boring model by sharing a novelty trophy from club to club every 3-5 year cycle. League structures are designed to maximise revenues in this system by having half the teams play off for a post season cup called a finals series, so even if your the 8th best club in the league, you can still be champion. And even if you come last every season you have a safety net of no relegation. The only issue for clubs who struggle financially in this setup is once they fail. They have no where to go, thus fold entirely disengaging entire communities, cities, volunteers, playing, juniors and development pathways that came with it.

Now with an open league system, you would have a competitive open top tier where clubs are now driven to invest in pathways to increase their financial stability, revenue streams, and development pathways and facilities in order to maximise the income they generate to reinvest to either stay in the top tier comfortably, or challenge for the title frequently and be at true pinnacle of the sport in the country. At the bottom, teams would now have every game being a competitive fixture where every game, every second, every point matters in the fight for relegation. Teams are driven to invest in development to onsell. This increase in competitiveness increases passion and talk in fans and media circle therefore automatically giving extra and much needed publicity and promotion to every single game throughout the season. Instead of having 1-3 weeks at the end of the season on back pages, we could see 5-7 weeks of back page news as clubs will be battling relegation during the last 5 rounds of the season, adding much needed interest and hype in the league.

Now this is where it gets interesting.. promotion from the second division.. a new team would be a fresh of breath air, and would increase interest and curiosity amongst media circle and fans. It also increases potential for massive levels of investment in second tier football from new owners wanting to invest in the football ecosystem and gain promotion to a lucrative first tier. This increases development for national teams and gives far more opportunities for youngsters and fringe players and players who see no future in the game from a young age and turn away once they start studying or working because of the limited opportunities in a closed system.

This has me curios. If promotion and relegation actually works in Australian football, and increases huge amounts of investment and capital as a result, would the other codes look at it as a viable option? I can’t really see nrl being feasible outside nsw/qld. But the afl has a strong presence in VFL, SANFL, WAFL and Tasmania.... call me a dreamer but could football actually be the catalyst for a change in mentality in the Australian footballing landscape ?

@RBB Wanderer

I personally don't think its feasible for other codes like AFL or NRL. They simply don't have the player pool, even for the teams they have right now. They are only scraping by and this is by searching for players in Ireland and ex-college players of basketball etc from the US. The talent pool we have in Australia is so much better for football, we just need to give young players and those on the fringes the exposure needed and the opportunity so that they are continually improving. Right now we have talented players in the NPL who simply cant find a spot on a roster only because there are not enough teams. We should be showing a little more faith and confidence in our sport, which is severely lacking at the FFA. You are not going to get the same standards across the board in one swoop. Its about taking that pool of players and developing further until they reach that next level. 

I think if we implemented pro / rel it would be a dynamic game changer for the sport and something which is needed. Other sports will look in envy and are probably praying we don't introduce it, because they know they can't do it. If you plan and do it right it would be amazing. 

We have convinced ourselves its not viable because its not the "Australian way". When in reality what we should be saying is its not the afl/nrl way. 2 codes with shallow talent pools that only people in a few states care for. We have allowed ourselves to be held back by rival sports who have very limited growth potential.

Our game has the opportunity to produce an amazing system where the product is organic all the way through. It would be groundbreaking and really put our code ahead of the game as far as sport in this country goes. Imagine having a system where every single game matters. Whilst we have that you would have afl teams still tanking for draft picks and purposely losing..tell me which game long term would have the brighter future as a spectator sport?

As long as we continue trying to beat the other codes at their own game we wont be going anywhere. Dont think for a second that they arent doing cartwheels at afl and league headquarters knowing that we are trying to produce a product that is a crappier version of what they have. As long as this continues they will always comfortably keep us at arms length.

It's possible

I think it’s wrong to say that Australians only know the closed system.

We have over a million active participants and are football people who know how it works.

It’s a basic finance principle: risk and reward. At the moment, there is no risk or reward since it’s a closed shop.

Although there are plenty of talented NPL players, I believe the pool is even bigger than that. How many good players have given up on the sport purely because the pathways and opportunities were not there? How many good players have given up because football doesn't pay the bills? Cost of living is rising after all, especially in Melbourne and Sydney. With a full pyramid that all changes. The other codes are experiencing very similar issues as the HAL right now. People are bored with the NRL and talk of scrapping the cap was heard yet again with Storm and Sydney dominating grand final appearances for 20 years. The AFL are resorting to free kids tickets on Sundays to bolster declining numbers. Neither code is willing to make major changes though. I don't think they really know what to do. However, football in Australia has the opportunity to recapture those football fans that don't follow the HAL. The fans that follow the epl, serie a, Bundesliga, etc but don't actively follow the HAL. All it takes is to align the sport with the way it operates overseas. Unlike the AFL we are not the pinnacle of the sport worldwide. That means we can no longer ignore the way things are done overseas. P&R is a must for longevity. I think if we look to Japan and how they transitioned we can echo what they did and create a sustainable pyramid. As for other leagues following suit. Highly unlikely. Too many traditionalists running things. Any change, however small, is a major uproar in the AFL.

Of course not

Australia is so absolutely and completely different to every other country in the Whole Fucking World

For many years I was against promotion and relegation in the A-League .
I now believe it is time to start to implement it .
I say "start" because it will take a few years to put things in place.

Two things can happen relatively soon though.
1.Increase the A-League's size to 16 over a few seasons. (4?)
and
2. Set up a second tier National comp.

Whether a second tier is set up in a conference system to cut travel costs or a straight out national comp ...I don't know... but we could have this comp up and running relatively soon  (2020/21 ?).
This comp would need to be a good strong viable comp and should be helped a smuch as possible by A-League heavyweights for many reasons ...but mostly because they may play in it one day !!!
It may not get TV coverage but I am sure other platforms would support it for not too much outlay.

Once we have 14 teams in the A-League make the next two entrants the top two of the second tier with no relegation that season to make 16 teams.
After that its all in . Bottom two of A-League play top two of second tier .
Losers go down .
Can you imagine the interest and passion involved ?

and why should the shit A1 team be given help ? 

As a trade-off to AL owners to cushion the effect of introducing P&R.
They have been the ones forking out god knows how much over the past 15 seasons.
Further down the track, make it a single game final and make a spectacle of it.
The whole process of full P&R between the AL and 2nd Div like the EPL/EFL could take up to 10 years.
If a 2nd Div was introduced next season I'd give it 5 seasons to establish with maybe promoting ONLY the top team 2-4 times to fill out the AL to 16 teams, whilst at the same time promoting the NPL National Champion into the 2nd Div to replace the team going into the AL.

P&R would be great to see, creating far more overall interest, but I do feel there are numerous challenges to overcome.

1/ Broadcaster value:
we all know that Fox pulls many strings currently, in terms of where it can extract the most viewers across the main markets of the country. Losing a team in a major market (ie. Brisbane) would be a huge loss, especially if it was replaced by a
Team from a regional city (ie. Wollongong). It would be a risk overall.
2/ Financial model:
The model will need to be reworked to ensure that there is scalability in the costs from both tiers, making it easier for clubs to manage going between the tiers. Without that in place, clubs may fall under a debt trap, maintaining a cost base that can’t be sustained, but limited options to review its ability service the needs of the club in the transition period.
3/ Increased rewards:
Increased prizemoney for strong performance would incentivise clubs to push for higher goals, even in the current structure. At present, there is very little difference between winning and being an also-ran in terms of overall financial reward.
4/ Salary cap:
This would be an interesting one to look at, as many clubs would have to considerably change the way they manage their squad list if a salary cap is maintained. Getting rid of the salary cap may well be looked at more favourably, but some kind of salary floor would likely be maintained, which may differ between the leagues.
5/ Overall financial requirements:
Increasing from 1 tier of 10-12 teams to potentially 2 tiers of 24 teams will see a significant rise in league operational costs, such as travel, referees and other ongoing requirements. Just how the increase in overall revenue plays out to cover this would be important, as the Australian context is very different to European countries in terms of distances to travel.
6/ Where does it stop?:
Would having 2 tiers still be seen as it being a closed shop, with minimal opportunities for clubs to be relegated or promoted to/from state leagues, or additional entrants invited to join the leagues. There will always likely be new interest to participate, but it would be important to ensure the structure is right to facilitate these kinds of changes over time.

Just a few areas there that would have to be worked on to make a sustainable, reward based model work, but I am excited by the opportunities.

I think movement between the 2nd tier and whatever sits below it will resolve itself organically

It’s not about whether there is enough players or not although that has some impact, but more about whether the spread of investment and finances are available which they are not. Alternatively we can dream p&r and have a tin pot A-League.

Without a doubt it would work but it needs the right people behind it to implement it. 

I wonder if people asked 'Would a closed shop work in Australia?' when they set up multiple leagues here over the last 40 years. 

At least we have the answer to that question

P&R didn’t work in Australia in the last 40 years except when the game was amateur.

I think the challenge lies with that tricky 2nd division. Hypothetically it could be setup to be closed initially. The problem is, I'm not convinced a 2nd div can grow to the point it needs to without P&R. I reckon that the 2nd div and P&R need to be introduced at the same time, or at the very least have a clear short deadline (eg: 2 years no P&R and then definitely P&R after that). A strict timeline is key here. I just reckon setting up a 2nd div with a loose 'we'll have p&r at some point yet to be determined' attitude simply won't work. I reckon for a 2nd Div to work it really needs that guarantee of promotion and a clear timeline of when it will happen. If that guarantee and timeline is in place clubs can start growing towards something and fans will really get behind their clubs. Otherwise, if we are waiting for a 2nd div to stand on it's own two feet first, that time will never come. The HAL has struggled to grow on it's own, a 2nd div will have an even harder time. There is very little that is exciting about a closed 10 team HAL. There would be even less to be excited about a 8-10 team closed 2nd div. Both the HAL and a 2nd Div need P&R to survive and grow. 

Spot on

Hopefully Steven uses his last board meeting to mandate it.

Fuck would I laugh

P & R will work to grow the game in this country ONLY if the 2nd division teams are all fully professional from day 1.
Otherwise it’s pointless.
Nothing else matters. They can be new entities, existing clubs or whatever, they can play on suburban AFL ovals in front of crowds of 100 people.
Once you have a professional second division in place, you will have a pipeline of talent production which will draw in and drive investment which will grow the business (game).

A major consideration before A-2 can happen is deciding how to align the seasons. It seems extremely unlikely that the A-League will move back to winter (lack of ground availability just for a start) so that means bringing the A-2 season into the summer. That brings its own challenges of the inevitable gap that will happen when (for example) a Heidelberg United finishes its last NPL season in September but then has to wait a full year before starting its first season in A-2.

Its not an insurmountable problem but still one that will need to be addressed. On one hand the time lag will give teams time to get their financial and structural ducks in a row but there is no doubt there will be a whole lot of players cooling their heels for a full year before their first A-2 game.

And then there is the flow on effect when pro-rel is extended downward - the A-2 team potentially facing a playoff against the top A-3 or NPL (whatever it’s called) in April or May when the top lower division team finished their season 6 or more months earlier. Is it realistic that all the levels can somehow be brought into the summer? Probably not.

I love the idea of pro-rel but there’s got to be some hard thinking and planning to get it all to work seamlessly.

There's no reason why the 2nd division can't be connected to the NPLs for promo/relegation (just use the current NPL finals format). I would imagine the lower finishing teams in the second tier would be closer to semi-pro than pro and don't understand why all teams need to be professional. 

But as I mentioned in an earlier post somehow the seasons would have to align otherwise the NPL (level 3) team that wins promotion will finish its season in September but have to wait 12 months to join A-2 at the beginning of the next summer season. A playoff situation would be almost impossible as the team from A-3/NPL would have to wait from September until April to find out and play the last placed A-2 team. And the losing team would have to wait another half year for the A-3/NPL season to start again! It just wouldn’t work.

The only answer would be if all three levels play at the same time (summer or winter) but logistically this also very difficult given established seasonal ground access of teams that normally play in winter (NPL and lower) or summer (A-L).

There has to be a way to sort this but those suggesting the move forward to introducing pro-rel must first work out the logistics of aligning the seasons of those that participate.

It can work, but we are a LONG way from it.

P/R from NSL to state leagues was a fail as has been pointed out, so we need a strong 2nd division in place before it can be considered.

And even then most of those clubs would probably not want to be promoted as they cannot afford the losses that would be inflicted on them - it would send them bankrupt.

Until A League clubs are able to be profitable, and the 2nd division is a scenario where a demoted A League club could survive, we simply don't have the landscape.

Unfortunately that's simply not realistic. Waiting for A-league clubs to become profitable is never ever going to happen in a closed league. Only one club currently makes a profit consistently and the others a pretty far off. When compared to other codes, only 1 NRL club makes a profit and half of the AFL clubs make a profit. Closed leagues simple cannot grow to levels where clubs turn a profit consistently. Sporting clubs in general struggle to make a profit no matter what system they are in.

It's simply not possible to create a strong 2nd div on it's own. If the HAL is still on shaky legs, a 2nd div is going to be even worse. It has to be a combined approach with a strict timeline. Waiting for things to happen yields no results. The NLWG needs to construct a solid plan. A is happening 20XX, B is happening 20XY and C is happening 20XZ. Without that nothing will happen. When there are goals and targets in sight, growth happens. When there are no targets, nothing happens as seen in the last 10 years of the HAL. It needs to be approached as a whole and not compartmentalised.

Under a P&R system, promotion is not only dependent on on-field results, it is also dependent on financial stability. If a club can't meet financial standards as of the HAL, they don't get promoted, simple as that. As for relegated teams going bankrupt. That's also a non issue if they are prepared for the transition. Clubs get relegated all over the world all the time. Sure, clubs have gone under, but that number is relatively low. We've had 3 clubs go down in 10 years of a closed league. Heart was also heading in that direction until they found a buyer. A perpetual closed league is going to send clubs under way faster than a league with P&R. If anything it can prevent them from going under by reducing their requirements.

You can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Major change is the only way in which the result can be different.

Only had three go bankrupt.  I don't think so.  I count more

NQ Fury
Gold Coast
NZ Knights
Newcastle 3 times
Adelaide twice
Brisbane 3 times
Melbourne Heart 
Perth Glory twice
Sydney every year (but its get a subsidy from Russia)

Basically, every team has gone broke once except MV

I agree PR would be great for the game.  However, what happens if Perth or Brisbane go down.  You dont have a national league and breach the broadcast contract.  Or over a few years you lose all the teams from say Melbourne or Sydney.  That would at best halve the value of the ALeague to the broadcaster.  Then you have no league.  The league implodes as the remaining teams cant pay the bills.  Where do the new teams play their games?  Where are their stadiums?  What happens if a regional team gets to go up, say the one from Darwin Hellenic Athletic.  Where do they play their games.  Don't just blithely say we will find a solution when the time comes.  These are real issues that need resolution before you implement change.  

If the HAL becomes the property of the clubs I cant see CCM, Newcastle or WP voting for PR.  The value of their investment would be wiped out completely in the event of relegation.  Even AU, BR and PG would have to think hard.  This aint no easy sell to people who could lose everything from it.

However, I think you have already answered the key question.  Since you say that promotion will be down to financial stability, there will be zero promotions.  How many NPL teams have a Russian father in law to pay the bills, or a Chinese billionaire, or Arab petrodollars.  None.

Lets try and set up a viable second division and see if we can introduce PR from there.  I agree goals are required but they have to be achievable.  

What nonsense

Even I wouldn't claim that 

The only thing that I think would need to happen, is clubs stadiums worked out. The roar couldn’t afford to be in a second division and play at Suncorp. So teams would either need their own stadium, or have a clause in their rental agreements to allow them to go to a smaller stadium if they are relegated

An NPL team on top of the 2nd tier and eligible for promotion but without the finances could be easy pickings for a billionaire wanting in on the A League
.
I don't really know who owns or how the NPL clubs are "owned"...by individuals or groups ? Some of them have been around for a while and may be thinking of a possible big retirement pay day if P/R ever comes in

If we followed BL model then it would work this way:

The licence is issued to a Company.
The company is owned by a Club (minimum 51%) and other investors up to 49%.
In the application for the licence, the finances to operate for the next year have to be fully apparent (Real cash money).  Licence is renewed annually.
If the company goes bust it loses the licence but the Club continues to exist.  
Clubs are owned by their members.

Follow this model for all Clubs wishing to compete in the A League and A2 League. 
To play in the 2nd division you have to be set up just like this.  It should actually be much easier for them. They are clubs already.  SMFC could do it easily.

The real problem is for the existing "clubs".  Taking a problematical one as example - Brisbane Roar.
Initially they were set up just the way I am talking about.  They (Lions) formed a company, got a licence, brought in moneyed backers.

Because of (so we are told) bad financial deals with grounds etc the Club could no longer fund the licence.  The licence was handed back.  In this case the licence was re-issued (sold) to a new company, but one without a Club behind it.  At this point the Company had no affiliation with a real club any more. The system broke.

The answer?  Brisbane Roar the company, has gradually been led by necessity to start building a real Club by default.  It could/should finish the job.  Launch a real club, with real members and genuine community roots.  It's by no means impossible.   Would the Bakries or any other owners do this? 
Actually I believe they would.  The Club itself becomes a risk owner in the company, positively contributing real funds and real members (customers).
The members get something.  They get a real club that can negotiate with a new owner, investor, or whatever to take on that part of the Company that owns and controls the licence. They are a real entity that represents something.  People would actually care.  For the investor the Club are the customers and it is in the interest of the investor to see it grow and prosper.  Win stuff even.
The Club doesn't just fold (like GC United) if an investor shoots through.  The owners of the company (club and investors) get a return for effort and money spent.

Victory could do this easily and I believe WSW and Adelaide would have few problems.
The one that needs reform the most would probably push back against it the hardest - Melbourne City.  Or they might not.

Using your logic almost every club in world football has gone bankrupt at some stage. Sporting clubs are almost never profitable, they are supported by wealthy individuals and consortiums for various purposes. 

Like saying what would happen to the premierleague if both Manchester clubs, liverpool and all the big london clubs went down a division..... simple, the 2nd division will be watched more! oh and it would never ever happen.

NZ Knights didn't go bankrupt, They just handed there licence back. 

#ProRel has got to be good for #OzFootball long term but it needs a viable 2nd tier of 16 before it begin climbing the step to @A-League #longWhiteCloud

Plenty of new teams and owners want to play in the A-league. THEY SHOULD BEGIN THEIR LIFE in the lower tiers. Earn your way to the A-league. 

agree.  there needs to be an immediate expansion by 2 teams at least.  but after the next teams there should be promotion only from the 2nd tier until the top division reaches capacity.  then full p/r after that.

Won't work in the foreseeable future.  Not enough money in a low pop massive continent where football is not the dominant sport, does not get massive hand outs from govt or bonanza like TV rights, where all sport is struggling for growth anyway against new forms of entertainment and where there is little community connection with most of the teams (cos they are new or cos historically they have tiny followings). 

Plus all the other problems mentioned by others above.  IMO most of the posts supporting pro rel simply ignore the problems and really just want it because  if we had a country with heaps of well supported (by people and sponsors) teams it would be great. Sure, but that's not the reality.

Please!
Enough claptrap.
Promotion and relegation will be a good thing for Australia, BUT NOT because of all the rubbish spouted by people who are blindly wedded to the idea.

What does the evidence say.
Will it bring bigger crowds?    NO-  With smaller teams, the average crowds will be lower across the league.
Will it bring more interest to the league from outside football?      No- people that don't care now, won't care about new smaller teams in a second division.
Will it make the season more exciting?      Meh, to some it will, to some it won't. There will still be many dead rubbers between mid table teams that there is no danger of being relegated. There will still be 'early' finishes where the teams being relegated/promoted are known many, many weeks before the end of the season. Of course, we have a similar situation at present with "finals" and that hasn't driven a huge surge in interest.
Do we already have a form of it?      YES. The stupid finals system we already have can be viewed as form of promotion/relegation. Finish in the top 60% of the league regular season and you are promoted to the finals. 
Will it encourage investment?       NOT unless it is fully professional. We already have NPL clubs trotting out excuse after excuse about why they won't go fully professional. If they don't want to be professional now, moving up a league is not going to entice them. Some will be happy to spend just enough to avoid relegation and finish lower mid table. If you are a cautious investor, you will likely NOT invest if the team can be relegated to lower division.

All in all the usual guff trotted out by Eurosnobs and plastic NPL fans is NOT reason to bring in promotion and relegation.

Now don't get me wrong, I would like to see promotion and relegation with a fully professional second division and having promotion and relegation between the 2 divisions, but not due to the false claims made by some.

What form of P & R do I support and why?
I support a fully professional league of 2 divisions, because this will allow young players to train and play full time and will bring about an exponential growth in the standard of football and the standard of our young players coming through. A fully professional 2 division league will also be more attractive to outside investors who don;t have to fear being relegated out of that structure. I support P & R because it rewards sporting achievement.

For me, those are reason enough to support a limited type of P & R.

Nice post. Makes sense to me.

There is promotion/relegation at almost every level in Australian football. It works in our local league, works in our NPL (not my preferred way). It can work from our top division, a second division to link the NPL’s to the A-League is the missing link to having a proper football pyramid.

A proper football pyramid was trialled and failed during the NSL era.

And that was with all the football kulcha at its disposal.

Well a closed system is failing now. Perhaps we should give up on football in Australia. 

I agree with SutherlandFan. We have an existing P&R system that people know. It's not a foreign concept. 

A stand alone closed off league was also trialed in the NSL and failed

Was the league structure to blame or those involved?

but the NSL did toy with promotion and relegation in some seasons in a haphazard way
in fact, there was one season when the NSL had 24 teams in the league

In split conferences. Never again.

If we are at some point going to have a full pyramid, aren't split systems/conferences going to be a must at some level? 

Lets assume that a 2nd div could actually afford the cost of travel all over the country to be a fully national 2nd tier. If there was P/R to a 3rd tier how does that work? no way a 3rd tier can be fully national is there? If we say its the NPL winner (just an example), what happens to the relegated team? where do they end up? in the conference/league that the promoted team came from or in their own original NPL 'conference'.

thats just one of the myriad issues that needs to be worked out before we can get to full P/R.

Have to say MarkfromCroydons post is seeming most logical and workable if any p/r is going to arrive any time soon(ish)

A fully professional second tier?

Why are we going to have a full pyramid and how is it going to work?  I look at a recent success in growing elite football which is Japan and they don't have a full pyramid and they grew their system from the top down.  They have P/R between their professional tiers and the only way to get in those tiers is by bidding when either a vacancy or expansion takes place.  Similarly Brazil doesn't have a full pyramid.  Their national and elite state competitions are for professional clubs only and their is no link between the professional tiers and the amateur leagues in the states in the form of P/R.  The interesting thing with Brazil is that the national league system came only when modern transport made it viable and they have linked it to the professional state competitions but the existing separation of state professional and state amateur has remained in place.

I accept that some other countries do have full pyramids but the real question for us is what suits our situation best and how are we going to get there?  Personally I see P/R following the amateur/professional separation like Brazil as where we should be heading and I like the planned expansion of Japan which has both expanded their tiers and added tiers to increase the footprint of the professional game.

Another post making sense.

japans P/R system is way to go, imo.

The european leagues took 150years to get to where they are now.

The real issue is the FFA have no long term plan for anything.

It wasn't the Pyramid that struggled

In an era when they had no where near the amount of money that is floating around like now. We have 120 Million all up per year in football and its still not enough. 

Is there though? And if there is does it work on senior first grade performance or overall club performance? Thinking of the last two versions of the NNSW NPL here. First off they had P/R based on first grade which led to teams only spending money on first grade and the ludicrous situation of a club being relegated from the NPL after most of their grades came in the top couple but first grade came last. Currently they do not have P/R between NPL agreements and participation in the NPL is based on factors other than team position in the previous season.
NSW NPL had club P/R based on overall performance but have now gone back to first grade only results.

At local level it works because each team can be promoted and relegated according to their own performance without concern about the performance of other age groups. 

The pyramid is based on constantly changing plans and positions.

Tis tough grieving the loss of Lowy family

Heard Andy Harper on the radio on this issue. He said that we need a second division but, in his words, "...Need to kick the second division down the road"
As far as Harper is concerned pro/rel should NOT be an agenda item for the new FFA board.

Realistically even if a 2nd div was up and running tomorrow, Pro/Rel would be at least 5 years away to allow clubs time to establish themselves and adapt to the professional enviroment

When it comes isn't that important. What is important is that there is a plan in place. If it's 5,10, 15 years down the track, that's fine, but there needs to be a clear and strict timeline. Nobody is going to work towards achieving it if there is no timeline. The current FFA have never planned anything, so nothing has happened. Simple as that.

Like the 5 years  MV, SFC, BR, CCM, Heart, GCU, NQ and WSW were given ?

Many are good at pointing out what won't work but offer up no suggestions as to what will ?
Seems to me that the only people who get things done in life are those who are busy doing what others say can't be done .
I can remember in pre A-League days people saying we could never support a professional league ......guess what ? ....13 seasons and still going.

I'd like to see a 10 team league replace the youth league with Canberra, Tasmania, Geelong, Wollongong, North Queensland, Gold Coast, Brisbane II, Adelaide II, Sydney II and Melbourne III
$700k FFA handout ($7m) with each club to attract $500k sponsorship to operate at about $1.2m a year. Semi professional with no salary cap and a 3+1 rule
Only requirements are 5000 seater stadium with ACL lighting and facility requirements met, and $1m capital to prove serious
After 1 year, top 2 teams are promoted and become teams 11 and 12 (A League salary cap scrapped immediately). They will obviously receive $3m from FFA to help increased professional costs. They will already meet all other requirements
After 3 years there can be P/R. An unconditional 1 in / 1 out system. Most likely second tier club in, second tier club out unless A League teams really underperform in which case they shouldn't be in the league
The league can be paid for initially by a reduced payment to A League clubs as they don't have to field a youth league team anymore (and whatever pooled sponsorship it can muster, or even a small broadcast deal). When teams 11 and 12 are promoted they are paid for by the $7m expansion money
When we renegotiate we'll have a sensible and valuable model. No reason our TV deal couldn't double. Whatever small change the clubs use helping to get this off the round will more than come back their way later on

oh yes, more designated franchises 

Oh shiiiiit. Turning on your minions!
Copying and pasting you and Bluebird was always a pretty safe bet.......till now.............

Why do these ideas all include "handouts" from the FFA?  That shit is done and dusted.

Where did it say it had to be franchises?

OK, I'll rephrase

A designated geographical area where 1, and only 1, 'lucky' football related entity will be given the commercially pre-determined right to operate within the 2nd Division.

I wonder if they'll need to bid to join ?


 

Then just make it the best 10 bids I guess ?

The thing everybody agrees on is that a second tier will cost money. So what are the options?

Option 1: Tap into Geelong and get Geelong council support / grants as well as local sponsorship and population. Ditto for Tasmania, Canberra, Wollongong, Gold Coast, North Queensland and other fringe regions

Option 2: Round up half a dozen Melbourne teams and half a dozen Sydney teams and call it pure football

If we were to migrate to Mars we would start by sending a select few people to see if its viable. Then strategic people like Doctors to ensure all resources are covered. And finally the broader population

A random selection process as a starting point may be fairer but ultimately you'd end up with a planet of 99 unemployed virgin male star trek fans and some fat chick. It could work... but probably wont

Agree, If they want it they should pay for it.

 Plenty of $ $ $ $ $ $ to spare. Easy. So clever.