anyone have any stories on dealing with eurosnobs, arguments, debates or even converting one??

CR7!!!!!

I once called some people on Facebook, watching some exhibition match between some HAL club and Juventus, plastic flogs & they got angry at me.

As angry as I used to get at them, eventually you realise the HAL simply hasn't the high-ground to convert them or whathaveyou.

Once we adhere to the global model in full and they STILL don't want a bar of it...then yeah you can call them out for the gloryhunting posers they are. But no one in their right mind should be resentful @ them for wanting no truck w/the joke plastic closed-comp that's been the HAL since day one.

totally agree here!

Who the hell is this douche?

You're not the  saviour of football. Here's how you convert them, make it better.

silly thread.

Most people I know have some love for the game. They may be casuals but if they are into football then they are into football. 

I used to hate eurosnobs now im turning into one cause our game is run by donkeys

I used to watch heaps of HAL, now I am also turning into a "eurosnob" because HAL is difficult to watch because
- it is so slow and the constant back passing is boring
- its hard to sustain a relationship with a club when every season there is massive player recycling,
- it is hard to take seriously when it is the only league in the world that thinks giving Bolt a professional contract is a good idea
- there are no incentives to improve or consequences for poor performance (ie CCM's record)
- if I wanted to watch pensioners, I'd go down the local park and watch the over 35's
- the development pathway is broken

Same.

The player recycling is what shits me the most.  How many clubs has Mitch Nicholls played for?

Yep.

Interesting you've made this assertion from  the perspective of a highly trained football coach, AJF.

From watching football in Spanish and French leagues I'd suggest there is just as much back passing in the patient build ups of most of their clubs.

 I'd contend that most HAL teams play a similar style to them at a lower standard and not as well.

Looking at the last round and this round  so far, I'm quite happy with the HAL standard.

Although as Benjamin eruditely  suggests, because we are improving very slowly, compared to some of  our Asian rivals, effectively we are stagnating in relative terms. We are in a confederation  that is improving fast. Long term it can only be good for our football.

I'd also contend that many of international teams like Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany and Croatia also use the back pass in patient build ups similar to most HAL clubs.


From an  analytical perspective, when the KNVB and Dutch first critiqued the game in Australia in the   four main moments of the game;

Ball Possession;

Defensive Transition;

Ball Possession Opposition;

Attacking Transition;

the ball was in DT and AT too much.

In other words teams were constantly battling for possession  of the ball. Neither team had the tactical and technical ability to maintain the ball for sustained periods and were able to progress the ball up the pitch in the build up with relative proficiency. Teams had to work very hard to maintain the ball.

Now there has been a decided improvement in teams being able to retain the ball in Ball Possession for much longer periods - and - gain territory. This is a commendable achievement. 

 

I used to live in England, and maintained interest in the game after moving here for some 20 years. 

I also lost interest though in the constant recycling of players and few Scousers playing for my club, Liverpool.

Is the current EPL, and other big five leagues in Europe, much  different from the current HAL in player turnover?

Yes, because they don't keep players to one year contracts.

Much different when the competition is only 15 years old but 160+ players have been at 3 or more clubs.  Fitzgerald is 27 years old and at his 6th A League team lol. Tongyik is 22 and at his 5th side lol.  Reddy has played for 70% of the teams in the competition. By the age of 25 Cernak was at his 6th A League team. We are into our fifteenth season and last I checked in that time period over 25 players had played for half the teams in the competition. 

These numbers do not include players who have had multiple stints for the same side. For example, Djulbic who is at Perth Glory for the third time in 10 years lol.

I mean Brisbane last season brought in Babalj who was warming the pine in India ffs lol. 

Man have I seen some crap Euro games. Turns me off to know the millions the players get paid there. Extremely poor value for consumer money.
Rather watch the HAL.

So this mornings Juve Atleti game offered no value for money, as opposed to what MV put up last night against the seconds at Sanfrecca.

You really are delusional

I love how the eurosnobs love their euro team so much yet have never seen them play live. If you support your team go and watch them

if you were a Atleti FAN you would not of got your value for money 

True, but you cant argue that Juve havent received sufficient paybeck from their investment in Ronaldo!

the man is a freak 

Ronaldo is a freak, there are not too many running around, nor many before him.

CR7 & Messi & then there is a pretty big gap.

Pick and choose hey lol.

The Euros put all their eggs in one basket with $100's of millions per team and yet still produce crap. Poor value for entertainment overall but if you're addicted like druggies are you'll be prepared to pay for it. At least the HAL is cheap and just as entertaining.

The best you have is the HAL is cheap, wow, thats really put me and all the 99.999% of football fans who think European leagues are better than the HAL in our place

everyone has an opinion hey and what satisfies them.

I'm the type who enjoys both, that way my eyes are wide open for there is good a bad in everything, cheap product expensive product.

Wow, just spotted this post. Can’t believe how one can be so delusional. lol

As a football fan I don't care who is playing, what competition they are playing in, as long as it's football I will watch it. Unfortunately many put politics and their little agenda not to help the game they profess to love.

What are these "Eurosnobs" you talk about?? 🤔

Im going to bring two points 
1. Eurosnobs just prefer better football the HAL quality just isnt there for people used to watching top quality football if the HAL was quality football and the best players played in it then would we call them HAL snobs? (of course not)  - thus the solution is to improve the HAL 

2. I dont blame anyone for not loving the HAL it is incredibility plastic. The league lacks so many things that i dont blame anyone for not taking it too seriously - No promotion/relegation, the moronic salary cap, no real community engagement and the idiotic finals play offs 

I honestly dont believe in euro snobs because they just enjoy football the way it is meant to be played....the way the rest of the world plays it (bar the MLS) 

Perhaps i am a eurosnob  but i dont mind the HAL but i honestly feel it lacks heart/banter/passion perhaps as the years go on it will continue to improve

eurosnobs are the worst type of fans bar none and I still give it to those flogs at every opportunity i get. if you love the game, you have to support it domestically. no excuses.


"I don''t follow that HAL because its shit quality" is the most pathetic excuse of them all and a really shithouse attitude. the more people that support the game, the more money it will bring to the game, which in turn will improve the quality. So your "Thus the solution is to improve the HAL" line is on you and your eurosnob mates my friend. At a minimum, I would hope you follow a NPL team if you refuse to follow the HAL. 

As for the HAL being plastic, there is no doubt the FFA and some clubs go about things in a cringeworthy way from time to time. But its still a baby at 14 years old. Things like pro/rel are coming. in fact, it will all come quicker if more and more eurosnobs got behind the HAL. 

Im a fan of the HAL but i also enjoy playing devils advocate so ill bite. 

Your argument about the league having more money being better quality is true in the theory but in practice it is totally wrong in the minds of a 'Eurosnob' here is why - 

The NSL had an operating budget about a 3rd of the budget the HAL has and it has as good quality, pro/rel and had far more passion (be it some of that passion was racist) 

Fact are facts an NSL based squad could go toe-to-toe with a team like Argentina and Germany the HAL based side lost to Kuwait....

The HAL is a baby of a league i agree but it isnt run properly and the fact of the matter is promotion relegation should of been standard when the league started and not have to be introduced. The FFA ask for 20 million for a HAL licence which is guaranteed to lose money  for the owner thus is absolutely ridiculous

Keep in mind i am a HAL fan but if you ask me 
- no pro/rel
- moronic finals play offs 
- sal cap of 3 million and a salary floor of around 2.3m is just idiotic
- small squads 
- teams play each other THREE times plus any pre-season is just over kill and gets boring teams shouldnt play each other more then twice (HOME AND AWAY thats IT) 
- FFA has no direction 
- no proper youth development 
- lack of connection to the clubs 

All these issues stem from bad governance but is why there are so many euro snobs 


As for your 1st comment about supporting the game domestically why? no one has too do anything, im a MVFC fan and we have a good support base and are developing a good football culture but i look across at city which is owned by a billionaire does little to nothing for the community, has 80% empty stadiums and no club culture due to not having its own defined area why would someone support them? i'd argue you are more included to support you local NSL team for me that would probably be Melbourne Knights then your local HAL team... At least if you support a side like Arsenal you can jump on youtube watch the banter shows like AFTV and feel part of the club and understand that the North London derby is important and how football is so important to the fans (basically the heart and soul of the club)....i simply see that much in the HAL (note im not a Arsenal fan) but these are the facts and bitc*hing about eurosnobs isnt going to help improve the league.

HOWEVER if the HAL tried to replicate the culture these clubs have created built a heart and soul to the club  it would be more successful - a good current example it AUFC (Once again im a MVFC fan) they are promoting local talent instead of signing foreign has ins and it is actually working that has good crowd numbers which has grown and have a connection to the Adelaide community because people like Mabil have come though the ranks and are now playing for Australia. 

If anything if you want more 'eurosnobs' to be fans maybe look at why they are fans of european football and not Australian because personally i totally get it but i also think the HAL can be culturally a better league to connect with if it is properly run and clubs are giving the ability to pull in the right direction 
 

I guess id consider myself a bit of a Eurosnob convert me? LMAO 

The problem is when youth coaches from Europe keep telling our young talent that European kids are that much better. From that moment (and if the kid agrees) you have lost 95 pct of the battle. if our young players don't atleast 'think' we are equal then we will win nothing. 

Sport is 95 pct mental

I dont reckon Cahill, Harry and Viduka ever thought they were second best.

Another loss by an Aus club in the ACL. A(nti-football) League.

The way I deal with 'eurosnobs' is by ridiculing peoples' needs to place stupid labels on things.

A League is what happens if you took European football, then took away all the talented players, then all the passion from the fans, then all the history and rivalry, then all the money and excitement and then added incompetent refs and VAR.

What is left is an boring, slow empty shell.

Sure that will convert thousands of new fans.......

Many Eurosnobs are Eurosnobs because of family history. It gives them that connection and sense of belonging. I understand where they’re coming from a little bit.
For the life of me though, I can’t fathom how the Eurosnobs with no family connection think.

There always is and will be the type of person that wants the Mercedes.

The funniest thing about the label "eurosnob" is that it's premised on the belief that it is confined to the world outside Europe. It's rubbish. It happens here in Europe too. People support clubs like Real and Chelsea with no historical or cultural connection to the clubs and dump on their own country just as well as any Aussie. I live in a one team town of 800,000 people and am one of 1,000 people that attend the games.

The eurosnob to me is someone who only follows a European team while living in Australia. Special mention to the eurosnob who says “Australia have no chance in this tournament”

Some supposed football fans in Aus seem to delight in the Socceroos losing.

Your local team doesn't owe you anything.

My 16 year old grew up on the HAL (and playing junior football). He knew nothing of European leagues even though Dad has a passing interest in Leeds Utd, Forest, Doncaster Rovers and Borussia Mönchengladbach due to past overseas business postings ....

But damn it .....

Optus Sport is creating a whole new generation of Eurosnobs and the boy who can never get up in a morning is up two days running watching the Champions league grrr

Depends on your perspective, the global pull of the sport is creating plenty new fans of the sport who otherwise would have just watched AFL or Rugby in the past. But it brings up a good point, people would undoubtedly see more news and information of foreign clubs than they do of their local clubs and from that perspective they'd probably have a stronger connection to a foreign club than they do here. It also doesn't help that Australian sport culture is quite plastic, at least in Victoria anyway where everything is centralised.

Good on him that is what football passion is and it is that passion the HAL needs to tap into. Instead our FFA is next to useless when it comes to fan engagement 

“NSL toe to toe with Argentina and Germany”?

Just goes to show how massively delusional some are on here. Mind boggling really.

His comment was that an NSL based side - ie/ golden generation - could go toe-to-toe with the big nations...  Whereas the current squads, HAL developed, struggle...  He is correct.

They couldn't.

They didn't qualify for  a WC in 32 years of NSL.

Where was the 2006 squad developed?  Did it all happen in the first year of the HAL?

Selective information, Benjamin.

It took outside coaching expertise to galvanise that unit into a WC qualifying cohesive force for 2006.

What occurred in 1978, 1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2002, was a collective failure. I passionately supported the Socceroos through all those failures - and - the only previous successful WC qualification in 1974. Losing to Iran ( twice), Israel and NZ meant something was malfunctioning. 

A lot more HAL players have played WC football, and Asian Cup football, than NSL players.


Nothing wrong with the NSL either. It was our top league for  a few decades.

The squad developed in the NSL era is considered to be our Golden Generation - that's not selective information.  As the Golden Generation players have dropped away, so to has the quality of the national team.  You and I both know that given an Asian qualification pathway, with the back up of a play-off for being the 5th best team in the federation, the 1998, 2002 and 2006 squads would have breezed into the world cup finals.

1994 team as well, they only lost the playoff to Argentina 2-1

I think Asian football has improved immeasurably since that epoch, but so have other federations.

I don't like the term GG. It has connotations of a naive 'European fan boy mentality'. European football isn't a homogeneous entirety, but one that exudes heterogeneity in terms of quality of European nations overall.

Some of the GG pundits on TV, exude a lack of knowledge about contemporary football compared to their mates who've studied contemporary  coach education since they hung up their boots.

In terms of  club careers the term GG may have merit, but in terms of international football in the same era,  the supposed GG didn't qualify for the WC in 1994, 1998 and 2002.

When I go back to the old videos, most of  the GG players don't look that good when one uses comprehensive technical football performance criteria to evaluate the GG players in Socceroo games - and -   the tactics look naive. Poignantly, global  football has improved markedly since.

 I know these points that have been discussed ad infinitum on here. 

Asian football has moved forward...  Global football has moved forward...  Yet our football has stood still...  Once again, not a strong defence for the quality of the A-League, the FFA's actions, etc.  If our "Golden Generation" wasn't that good - what does that say about the current squad?

and the guy who scored both our goals at the 2018 World Cup was developed in the NSL too haha. Fun fact, the Socceroos have scored 13 goals in the last 4 World Cup tournaments. 0 of the Goal Scorers started out in the A League. (Cahill, Jedinak, Holman, Kewell, Moore, Aloisi)

So are you saying the A League is nearly as bad as the NSL at producing players? 
In my opinion, the A League is much better at producing players.

I don't think the A League has produced any players, though it has allowed a few players to move onto clubs that have developed them.

Risdon and Grant have both doing a reasonable job at RB.

They are products of the HAL exclusively.

Interesting observation, particularity since NSL was formed in 1977 and was only around for 28 seasons.

NSL produced Golden Generation which could go toe to toe with Argentina and Germany.

Nowadays, we can't go toe to toe with Jordan!

Coffee Jackal, you make some pretty good points, but comparing the HAL to a league that folded 15 years ago is ridiculous.  

- no pro/rel: Disagree this could have started from day 1. 
- moronic finals play offs: you're joking right? This is a typical eurosnob attitude. the HAL finals brings TV ratings and money to the game. its here to stay. 
- sal cap of 3 million and a salary floor of around 2.3m is just idiotic: totally agree.
- small squads: yep, agree.
- teams play each other THREE times plus any pre-season is just over kill and gets boring teams shouldnt play each other more then twice (HOME AND AWAY thats IT): yep, agree
- FFA has no direction: yep, agree. 
- no proper youth development: yep, agree. 
- lack of connection to the clubs: mmm... maybe you need to elaborate on this one a bit more. 

Important to remember that the NSL only 'folded' because it was being replaced by the HAL.  Once the replacement league was confirmed there was no air left for the NSL to breath.  Crawford Report and NSL Report both advocated the transition from NSL to a new, improved competition, not the destruction of one to make room for the other.  NSL wasn't perfect by a long stretch, but by throwing away the whole thing in order to start again the FFA took a sledgehammer to the foundations of the game.

- teams play each other THREE times plus any pre-season is just over kill and gets boring teams shouldnt play each other more then twice (HOME AND AWAY thats IT): yep, agree

Plus a good chance of playing again the FFA Cup, plus play again in the finals...  Familiarity breeds contempt.

The NSL didn't fold because the A-league was coming. The NSL folded because it was an economic mess that couldn't keep a format running for more than three quarters of a season and was full of people who would fully destroy the game than give up one iota of whichever opinion they happened to hold.
It was a totally chaotic mess at all levels and any revinionist crap about the good old days is beyond the realms of sane thought.

The NSL played out every season but was badly in need of reformatting.  It didn't stop until the A-League had been announced - at which point continuing was impossible.  NSL clubs supported both the Crawford and NSL reviews, both of which recommended greater support and assistance for an independent league.  

The HAL cant survive with good attendance during the final series but poor attendance during the season - the final series under minds the point of topping the ladder and every league game making the league inherently less interesting because you can theoretically come 6th and win the title so most casual fans dont take notice until towards the end of the season.

How many people do you know say you 'ill go to a match or two maybe something like the  semi final' - you would rather 'yea ill catch a few games this season the MVFC vs SFC fixture is coming up that should be a cracker' 

See the final series is probably the 2nd worst thing about the HAL the worst being no pro and rel - to me if a European only football fan told me it is a bit of a 'mickey mouse comp' i couldnt disagree based on a finals series. Im a MVFC fan and even i think it is incredible that we could finish 4th last season and win the 'major title' ... 

you can blame the FFA on that. As a Victory fan, I still consider Sydney to be last years title winners and so do most purists. its the FFA that push the narrative of the GF winners. 

As for the casual fans not taking notice until the end of the season... are you suggesting we get rid of the finals so the casual fans don't follow the HAL at all? Or did i misinterpret you?

Im suggesting casual fans would more likely go to a league game if there was no 'final series' which potentially might make them real fans or at least watch the sport a bit more....  - people dont realize this but attendance doesnt matter much it is TV viewers that brings the money into the sport u need people watching all season long not just during the play offs - 

Ill use an example right now the NBL 'finals' are on i have no idea that the NBL was going on until about 2 weeks ago because all the marketing is focused on the 'final series' instead of the actually competition. I as a non-NBL fan would probably go to the final series but if there was no final series i would probably check out a NBL game now and then but because im not a hard core NBL fan im less likely to watch during the regular season because there is no major stakes...

The whole idea of a finals play off is moronic if anything the team that wins the league should win the 'major champion' and the team that wins the play offs should be like a minor title or something like a cup comp kind of thing.

Stop thinking about the HAL and think about another sport you dont particularly care...When does the marketing for it occur? during the BBL it was a little during the season but all the media was focuses during the finals which is exactly what you dont want... you need people to check out the sport during the season even if it is just the big matches ie MVFC vs City  because thats how they join the club. Finals play offs is the more plastic shit and call me a eurosnob for it i dont really care that is my opinion and it wont change...