Youth development in Australia, where did it all go wrong?


Youth development in Australia, where did it all go wrong?

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sokorny - 6 Sep 2019 5:24 PM
Personally I thought the NC laments the lack of creative footballers (an issue it wanted to address was pick up games, mentioned why countries such as Brazil are so strong... not just football in Australia struggling at this).

Furthermore 2 of the 4 core skills according to the NC are 1v1 and running with the ball (so if coaches are creating passing robots then they are not following the NC - passing is part of the striking skill which also includes shooting, crossing). The NC encourages creativity IMO, it is coaches who stifle it (esp those afraid to lose or worried about the win today rather than the title) 

Quality post, Sokorny.
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NC hasn't been in action for long enough. Give it another 10 years then we will see.
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jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM
only people who seem to be able to develop top class young players is Westfield sports high.. 

the AIS also developed many quality players killing that was a mistake 

Can you tell me how long a player was at AIS and from what ages? 
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jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM
only people who seem to be able to develop top class young players is Westfield sports high.. 

the AIS also developed many quality players killing that was a mistake 

The AIS defnitely did need a shake up, but I agree it didn't need to be turfed completely - rather, the football program needed to evolve and become more of a 'finishing school' for our best and brightest. The bulk of youth development should be done by clubs, but the AIS could have provided the specialist coaching to take those who are deemed international quality to another level. Kids continue to play at their clubs in their home states, but four times a year (every school holidays) the best kids from around the country are brought into camp in Canberra for two weeks where the national coaches can run their eye over them.

Just my 2c.
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walnuts - 7 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM

The AIS defnitely did need a shake up, but I agree it didn't need to be turfed completely - rather, the football program needed to evolve and become more of a 'finishing school' for our best and brightest. The bulk of youth development should be done by clubs, but the AIS could have provided the specialist coaching to take those who are deemed international quality to another level. Kids continue to play at their clubs in their home states, but four times a year (every school holidays) the best kids from around the country are brought into camp in Canberra for two weeks where the national coaches can run their eye over them.

Just my 2c.

That happens now, just not in Canberra. 
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There are some fundamental issues with junior football that having nothing to do with “big picture stuff”, AIS, FFA etc 

This is how it should work: 

All kids pay a fair and reasonable amount to access suitable facilities. They are graded according to ability and placed in teams with children of similar ability in competitions suited to their ability, and against opponents of similar ability. The better teams get the better coaches and kids get promoted up/demoted down a team based on ability and team fit. revenue raised does not “run the club” and only runs the teams. 

This is how how it actually works:

kids are graded at U9/10 and again at U11/12 and places in a SAP stream or a non SAP stream. 

SAP stream kids are often selected on traits such as speed and slower kids with football ability can often be overlooked. SAP streams get C Grade coaches and they pay a lot of money for the privilege. They play in SAP competitions which do not necessarily contain the best players, but merely the best players plus those who’s parents can afford to pay to keep them there. Once in it’s difficult to get knocked down a stream, no club coach wants the conversation “thanks for the $2k/year bit we’ve now decided little Jonnies not good enough so we’re relegating him”; so they get to stay when it’s obvious they shouldn’t be. SAP fees are used to part fund other club activities. 

Non-SAP stream kids are given “best effort” coaching with volunteers with little or no coaching experience just a willingness to have a go. Teams aren’t graded properly and those with ability get mixed with those that don’t, most kids are there for fun and exercise but as youngsters develop and grow the good ones start to shine (often negated in their early years because they weren’t the fastest).  But now there’s no ability to elevate them in to SAP or give them appropriate skills other than Dad-coaches best effort. 

At U18 we lose most of these kids and merge the rest  into U18 and U20 streams, by now the best of the best are in the local State or HAL Academy and the rest continue on towards social and possibly NPL football, or somewhere in between. 

The first option is clean, simple and easy to implement. We don’t do this. 

The second option is complex, a little bit corrupt, and messy. We do this. 
Edited
Last Month by Waz
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@waz 

can you you please confirm- are you talking about 

Skill Acquisition Program (SAP)

or
The Roar scam that they named the same
Strategic Academy Partnership (SAP)

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scott20won - 7 Sep 2019 3:14 PM
@waz 

can you you please confirm- are you talking about 

Skill Acquisition Program (SAP)

or
The Roar scam that they named the same
Strategic Academy Partnership (SAP)

I’ve photographed your response and passed it on to the club. 
Edited
Last Month by Waz
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Waz - 7 Sep 2019 3:18 PM
scott20won - 7 Sep 2019 3:14 PM

I’ve photographed your response and passed it on to the club. 

Just a waste of resources really
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scott20won - 7 Sep 2019 3:20 PM
Waz - 7 Sep 2019 3:18 PM

Just a waste of resources really

I can’t comment as I’m not involved with any Roar programs. If you think it’s a scam it’s best they comment themselves. 

Clearly in the context of my post i was I was talking about the Skills Acquisition Program 
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Waz - 7 Sep 2019 3:24 PM
scott20won - 7 Sep 2019 3:20 PM

I can’t comment as I’m not involved with any Roar programs. If you think it’s a scam it’s best they comment themselves. 

Clearly in the context of my post i was I was talking about the Skills Acquisition Program 

Probs the best post regarding kids of Aus development in a long long time , 
nect question is how to correct it.
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notarobot - 7 Sep 2019 10:06 PM
Waz - 7 Sep 2019 3:24 PM

Probs the best post regarding kids of Aus development in a long long time , 
nect question is how to correct it.

True. 

If it’s not illegal it’s not a scam.

im not the ethics police, I am the fun police. 
Edited
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walnuts - 7 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM

The AIS defnitely did need a shake up, but I agree it didn't need to be turfed completely - rather, the football program needed to evolve and become more of a 'finishing school' for our best and brightest. The bulk of youth development should be done by clubs, but the AIS could have provided the specialist coaching to take those who are deemed international quality to another level. Kids continue to play at their clubs in their home states, but four times a year (every school holidays) the best kids from around the country are brought into camp in Canberra for two weeks where the national coaches can run their eye over them.

Just my 2c.

A good 2c worth too, Walnuts. 

Fair play to you. 
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walnuts - 7 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM
C
The AIS defnitely did need a shake up, but I agree it didn't need to be turfed completely - rather, the football program needed to evolve and become more of a 'finishing school' for our best and brightest. The bulk of youth development should be done by clubs, but the AIS could have provided the specialist coaching to take those who are deemed international quality to another level. Kids continue to play at their clubs in their home states, but four times a year (every school holidays) the best kids from around the country are brought into camp in Canberra for two weeks where the national coaches can run their eye over them.

Just my 2c.

Anything was better than just nuking it.

 If I was loaded and head of FFA, I'd have rejigged it into a specialised pathway for kids from rural areas who have no A-League pathway to move into.


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walnuts - 7 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
jas88 - 7 Sep 2019 11:28 AM

The AIS defnitely did need a shake up, but I agree it didn't need to be turfed completely - rather, the football program needed to evolve and become more of a 'finishing school' for our best and brightest. The bulk of youth development should be done by clubs, but the AIS could have provided the specialist coaching to take those who are deemed international quality to another level. Kids continue to play at their clubs in their home states, but four times a year (every school holidays) the best kids from around the country are brought into camp in Canberra for two weeks where the national coaches can run their eye over them.

Just my 2c.

Good 2 cents
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melbourne_terrace - 8 Sep 2019 8:54 AM
walnuts - 7 Sep 2019 12:25 PM

Anything was better than just nuking it.

 If I was loaded and head of FFA, I'd have rejigged it into a specialised pathway for kids from rural areas who have no A-League pathway to move into.

That's a good suggestion but it would have meant that the FFA would have had to find the money to run it because the program would not have met the criteria for continued AIS high performance funding.
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We need something because think the aleague academies might not be enough, a lot of these south East Asian nations are moving towards centralised models and starting to beat us at youth level whilst we have gone the opposite with the club based model.

Should we look to go a Clairfontaine model where the best kids from say 12-15 get the best specialised coaching they can get along with the aleague and NPL academy stuff?

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Sebr1968 - 25 Aug 2019 3:28 PM
As much as I hated the way football was run in Australia in the past (especially the NSL era), one thing I will say, Australian youth football teams would regularly qualify for numerous FIFA tournaments and the Olympics, where they were very competitive. But over the last 15 or so years, the standard of our youth teams has gone to shit, where did it all go wrong?

I know in the past we had the AIS in Canberra where there was a football division, is this still around?

Since the A-League clubs have been given control of football (as we are led to believe), what plans do the A-League owners have for youth development?, eg. the setting up of youth acedemies.

Why?
Reason 1
The FFA and HAL are the primary bodies responsible for developing youth in this Country as they are the only ones with the money to do it. They have provided nothing to the state clubs.

Reason 2
Cost of rego from U8 to U12 = $1500
Cost of rego from U13 to U16 = $2500
Then there are the other expenses minimum total  $14,000 for one child get to U16.  + Parents time

Reason 3
FFA lack of governance, when you pay your rego will your son or daughter play?
Quality of training provided is better than the old days but cannot compete with the rest of the world. 
Quality of Training is not verified by FFA or State federation. 

Reason 4
Disjointed infrastructure School is 25 km away form the training park for example.

Reason 5
Corrupt club and Federation officials, wink wink I'll get your son and daughter in

Reason 6
No second division to allow youth to develop.

The reasons are fundamental issues which the FAA is squarely responsible.

My advise, if your child has any potential get out of OZ ASAP, people are doing that now as we speak.    



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Splithead - 11 Sep 2019 4:53 PM
Sebr1968 - 25 Aug 2019 3:28 PM


Reason 2
Cost of rego from U8 to U12 = $1500
Cost of rego from U13 to U16 = $2500
Then there are the other expenses minimum total  $14,000 for one child get to U16.  + Parents time
  

It's not that much.

Local football is circa $200 to $400 per annum.  (2 of my kids pay that.)

One of my kids plays NPL.  That's $1800 a year but I've heard that that can be higher in other cities


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Munrubenmuz - 11 Sep 2019 5:09 PM
Splithead - 11 Sep 2019 4:53 PM

It's not that much.

Local football is circa $200 to $400 per annum.  (2 of my kids pay that.)

One of my kids plays NPL.  That's $1800 a year but I've heard that that can be higher in other cities

Sorry mate, I”m still on the merry go round. These figures are factual and current. See my detailed breakdown on other posts, believe me they are conservative figures.

I’m talking about NPL youth level. Your figures are for a local club.

I wish I was wrong !!!

solution: Real governance structures, monitoring implementation by the FFA. Currently your handing over our youth to used car salesmen.
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Decentric - 7 Sep 2019 11:53 AM
sokorny - 6 Sep 2019 5:24 PM

Quality post, Sokorny.

The problem is these coaches don’t show kids how to take on players and be creative. Private academies are doing this job for them. That’s the truth.
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Splithead - 12 Sep 2019 4:41 PM
Munrubenmuz - 11 Sep 2019 5:09 PM

Sorry mate, I”m still on the merry go round. These figures are factual and current. See my detailed breakdown on other posts, believe me they are conservative figures.

I’m talking about NPL youth level. Your figures are for a local club.

I wish I was wrong !!!

solution: Real governance structures, monitoring implementation by the FFA. Currently your handing over our youth to used car salesmen.

Your figures may be right for NPL.  

Anyway in a free market system the FFA is hardly wallowing in enough cash to subsidise every NPL player in Australia to bring fees down.

Short of clubs themselves bringing in big sponsors I'm not sure what can be done.




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Edited
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Check out new FFA TD chef Rob Sherman’s presentation about his plans for youth development, a strong focus will put into club development through Categories rather than a centralised training environment.

It looks something like this:

Category 1: Full time, pay free
Category 2: Full time/part time, pay free
Category 3: Part time, user pays
Category 4: Part time, user pays.

The new program will roll out this year (says it’s a bit late for unknown reason?), category 1 will be assessed by state feds, category 2,3,4 will be assessed by FFA, not every club has to enroll if they don’t wish to or feel are not ready.
Overall wants buy in from the ones who want to be involved if they are fully committed to youth development, they all start at a realistic level and work from here.
Implementation the new program will done via an online portal to avoid dodgy problems.

He overall thinks the youth development pathway and system is an mess with little clarity.

He also thinks you should not judge results too soon as a indicator of players quality, RAE having a big factor at youth level.

Will also see a make over of the C, B and A license and focus on skill acquisition phase only, like wise for youth level and senior as seperate modules or something like that.

Thinks that the younger players coming through are better technically especially under pressure but often lack in intelligence and and what’s around them off the ball.

Shows how vital is for young players to rack up volume of minutes between 17-21 mostly at domestic football as key indicator for national team success, doesn’t mention much of national 2nd division but mentions the current u20 rule at NYL as horrendous.

Wants an open debate about how the ROE will be achieved whether through transfer compensation, system clubs, or wait for the FIFA money if they go enough for overseas.

Whether this is a new dawn or we go to another plan in the future only time will tell.

Check it out.

https://youtu.be/bdBLJvVUW_c

Edited
Last Month by Barca4Life
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Barca4Life - 13 Sep 2019 2:05 AM
Check out new FFA TD chef Rob Sherman’s presentation about his plans for youth development, a strong focus will put into club development through Categories rather than a centralised training environment.

It looks something like this:

Category 1: Full time, pay free
Category 2: Full time/part time, pay free
Category 3: Part time, user pays
Category 4: Part time, user pays.

The new program will roll out this year (says it’s a bit late for unknown reason?), category 1 will be assessed by state feds, category 2,3,4 will be assessed by FFA, not every club has to enroll if they don’t wish to or feel are not ready.
Overall wants buy in from the ones who want to be involved if they are fully committed to youth development, they all start at a realistic level and work from here.
Implementation the new program will done via an online portal to avoid dodgy problems.

He overall thinks the youth development pathway and system is an mess with little clarity.

He also thinks you should not judge results too soon as a indicator of players quality, RAE having a big factor at youth level.

Will also see a make over of the C, B and A license and focus on skill acquisition phase only, like wise for youth level and senior as seperate modules or something like that.

Thinks that the younger players coming through are better technically especially under pressure but often lack in intelligence and and what’s around them off the ball.

Shows how vital is for young players to rack up volume of minutes between 17-21 mostly at domestic football as key indicator for national team success, doesn’t mention much of national 2nd division but mentions the current u20 rule at NYL as horrendous.

Wants an open debate about how the ROE will be achieved whether through transfer compensation, system clubs, or wait for the FIFA money if they go enough for overseas.

Whether this is a new dawn or we go to another plan in the future only time will tell.

Check it out.

https://youtu.be/bdBLJvVUW_c

Thanks for posting that. 

The comment “Thinks that the younger players coming through are better technically especially under pressure but often lack in intelligence and and what’s around them off the ball” certainly rings true. 

Technical coaches are very common but coaches who have played the game extensively and can coach game awareness are far fewer. Perhaps 1 in 5 even. 
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Waz - 13 Sep 2019 7:44 AM
Barca4Life - 13 Sep 2019 2:05 AM

Thanks for posting that. 

The comment “Thinks that the younger players coming through are better technically especially under pressure but often lack in intelligence and and what’s around them off the ball” certainly rings true. 

Technical coaches are very common but coaches who have played the game extensively and can coach game awareness are far fewer. Perhaps 1 in 5 even. 

yes it is good point made......
The coachs I'm around get very frustrated on players not using their common sense and lack of awareness.
Turning back into the traffic, passing the hospital ball and even passing as if it will go through a opponent they are a ghost lol.....
Not quick enough in control and release and get caught out easily.
So many more.


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LFC. - 13 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
Waz - 13 Sep 2019 7:44 AM

yes it is good point made......
The coachs I'm around get very frustrated on players not using their common sense and lack of awareness.
Turning back into the traffic, passing the hospital ball and even passing as if it will go through a opponent they are a ghost lol.....
Not quick enough in control and release and get caught out easily.
So many more.


lol, everything you’ve written there is spot on and I’ve seen every weekend this year in U18’s with good technical ability (and sadly the “many more” comment is true too) 

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Munrubenmuz - 12 Sep 2019 4:56 PM
Splithead - 12 Sep 2019 4:41 PM

Your figures may be right for NPL.  

Anyway in a free market system the FFA is hardly wallowing in enough cash to subsidise every NPL player in Australia to bring fees down.

Short of clubs themselves bringing in big sponsors I'm not sure what can be done.


In this day and age, ipads etc one guy can do a check for 2 clubs a night. Next day send the letter out for nonconformace. Done!!! This costs f..k all. 

They federation and FFA coordinators just dont want DOB their mates in !! Get it.
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LFC. - 13 Sep 2019 12:25 PM
Waz - 13 Sep 2019 7:44 AM

yes it is good point made......
The coachs I'm around get very frustrated on players not using their common sense and lack of awareness.
Turning back into the traffic, passing the hospital ball and even passing as if it will go through a opponent they are a ghost lol.....
Not quick enough in control and release and get caught out easily.
So many more.


It’s easy to blame the kids but who was the coach that let them develop these bad habits?








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AJF - 13 Sep 2019 6:06 PM
LFC. - 13 Sep 2019 12:25 PM

It’s easy to blame the kids but who was the coach that let them develop these bad habits?

It is the coaches/clubs fault. That was the point being made. 
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Waz - 13 Sep 2019 6:43 PM
AJF - 13 Sep 2019 6:06 PM
LFC. - 13 Sep 2019 12:25 PM

It’s easy to blame the kids but who was the coach that let them develop these bad habits?

It is the coaches/clubs fault. That was the point being made. 
Doesnt read that way