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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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+x+x+xYou’re the conspiracy theorist, what do you read into it? You seem to have some beef with me. Some unpleasant feelings. Why is that? I'm just stating my opinions. Ones from 18 months ago are rather relevant now. I'll give it a good read and use my superpowers to dissect it. As you eloquently put it, I'll read between the lines. 😊 I don’t have a ‘beef’ with you personally, obviously our opinion of James Johnson differ and that’s fine. We will have to see what transpires in the next few days. That's good. It's all purely my opinion on the information I've gathered. I still want a NST to be in place. I don't think it can be fully professional. Those expectations, along with other requirements blew clubs out of the water. That's where the compromise needed to be. And yes. Let's see what transpires.
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion.
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 18K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. Yeah resistance to this is where im baffled Id love the nst to pay efl wages and the a league to pay epl wages. But if there are clubs that can manage it at their own risk without raising junior costs, what is the harm in just letting do whatever standard they can manage. There is a potential upside of growth with no downside for the fa since they arent covering the cost?
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HappyGuus
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 189,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. Yeah resistance to this is where im baffled Is there much resistance, though? I see a lot of "it won't work", but can't say that I've seen "I hope it fails". One is just opinion, the other is bias.
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 18K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. Yeah resistance to this is where im baffled Is there much resistance, though? I see a lot of "it won't work", but can't say that I've seen "I hope it fails". One is just opinion, the other is bias. Been a few saying they are against it no matter what and a larger cohort saying a high bar or nothing (you can see the breakdown of opinion on the reddit poll)
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Lupi33
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 197,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. It was a model I favoured for a long time but now I think it would be a lot more difficult to be viable in 2025 than 1977. There are a lot more expenses that exist with time and travel and there's less TV money available. That model began failing in the late 90s/00s in any case. eg a club like Adelaide City could no longer afford to participate in the NSL but remains in the NPLSA.
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HappyGuus
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 189,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. Yeah resistance to this is where im baffled Is there much resistance, though? I see a lot of "it won't work", but can't say that I've seen "I hope it fails". One is just opinion, the other is bias. Been a few saying they are against it no matter what and a larger cohort saying a high bar or nothing (you can see the breakdown of opinion on the reddit poll) Yeah at the time I only saw the one comment (now two) for option 1, although, it does have a lot of votes. One of the "option 1" comments said they would love it to work but can't see it happening... that's not resistance. And the rest of the 60+ comments are fine and just opinion. Option 2 is for people who think the bar was already set with the eight clubs signing up, and lowering that bar is possibly headed for failure. Option 3 is for people who could accept one or two clubs falling over for the greater good of getting the league going. Option 4 is for people who have no idea about risk and how to run anything and would watch the whole thing go down in a blaze of glory. You'll find them in casinos. Option 5 is for the brainstormers and spitballers haha. It's a good poll with honest answers. It's just opinion, don't take it as "resistance". Real resistance would be APIA wanting to call it off for another 12 months!
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RoyalDave
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 357,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ I knew that it was designed to fail. How exactly was it 'designed to fail'? Simple. Build an inflexible model that is unattainable for most clubs. Or just about all clubs from the sounds of it. Why wasn't the model modified to ensure it was within reach for 10-12 clubs? Because where does the money come from? It's all well and good for APL to potentially subsidise it (more) - that might even have been an option if they hadn't squandered all the money - but in the long run there has to be a balance between what the clubs put in, and what the league can put in - which would depend on sponsorship/media interest in the long run. The criteria/model was worked on for a long time and is probably fairly realistic for a semi-pro nation-wide league. Everything has also gotten much more expensive since this concept began life a few years ago - and the financial gap between NPL clubs and A League clubs continues to widen. I'm only a little surprised it hasn't gotten up, but I was banking on it failing after a season or two when some clubs began to struggle. Those who thought we could have P/R to the a league in 5 years time are in lala land - it would be a death sentence for any npl club getting promoted to the a league - especially this season (perhaps with the exception of one or two). There is NO pro/rel to Aleague and never has it been on the table... Financial modelling and criteria where laid out in November last year so not sure what has changed since then economically in your view? I know it hasn't been - I badly wrote my bit because a lot of people on here, in their excitement at the proposal of the NST, have been more or less demanding P/R to the A league in the not too distant future. And this is before it even got off the ground. Point being there's no money...
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 18K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xHe says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based. I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage. I suspect that is where we are headed. State NPLs Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included) This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp. Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football. Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades. Would you accept a semi-pro second tier? Give clubs some minimum standards regarding contracting. But let them determine how "professional" they can go. This is where the compromise on financials needed to occur in my opinion. Yeah resistance to this is where im baffled Is there much resistance, though? I see a lot of "it won't work", but can't say that I've seen "I hope it fails". One is just opinion, the other is bias. Been a few saying they are against it no matter what and a larger cohort saying a high bar or nothing (you can see the breakdown of opinion on the reddit poll) Yeah at the time I only saw the one comment (now two) for option 1, although, it does have a lot of votes. One of the "option 1" comments said they would love it to work but can't see it happening... that's not resistance. And the rest of the 60+ comments are fine and just opinion. Option 2 is for people who think the bar was already set with the eight clubs signing up, and lowering that bar is possibly headed for failure. Option 3 is for people who could accept one or two clubs falling over for the greater good of getting the league going. Option 4 is for people who have no idea about risk and how to run anything and would watch the whole thing go down in a blaze of glory. You'll find them in casinos. Option 5 is for the brainstormers and spitballers haha. It's a good poll with honest answers. It's just opinion, don't take it as "resistance". Real resistance would be APIA wanting to call it off for another 12 months! As i said no one has been a jerk but there does seem to be resistance. Option 5 has a few that were really option 1 when explained. So that was non trivial resistance. I do see option 2 as resistance too since it is a bit weird to me to not want any flexibility at all
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LFC.
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ I knew that it was designed to fail. How exactly was it 'designed to fail'? Simple. Build an inflexible model that is unattainable for most clubs. Or just about all clubs from the sounds of it. Why wasn't the model modified to ensure it was within reach for 10-12 clubs? Because where does the money come from? It's all well and good for APL to potentially subsidise it (more) - that might even have been an option if they hadn't squandered all the money - but in the long run there has to be a balance between what the clubs put in, and what the league can put in - which would depend on sponsorship/media interest in the long run. The criteria/model was worked on for a long time and is probably fairly realistic for a semi-pro nation-wide league. Everything has also gotten much more expensive since this concept began life a few years ago - and the financial gap between NPL clubs and A League clubs continues to widen. I'm only a little surprised it hasn't gotten up, but I was banking on it failing after a season or two when some clubs began to struggle. Those who thought we could have P/R to the a league in 5 years time are in lala land - it would be a death sentence for any npl club getting promoted to the a league - especially this season (perhaps with the exception of one or two). There is NO pro/rel to Aleague and never has it been on the table... Financial modelling and criteria where laid out in November last year so not sure what has changed since then economically in your view? I know it hasn't been - I badly wrote my bit because a lot of people on here, in their excitement at the proposal of the NST, have been more or less demanding P/R to the A league in the not too distant future. And this is before it even got off the ground. Point being there's no money... I don't think many or any been demanding P/R to APL, infact far from it by the regular posters. I sure don't want for it, most have been applauding starting NST and talk of in time setting up below NST so as P/R can evolve all in good time. First and foremost need to see that NST gets going and see how it goes and tweak. The APL being its own entity and all the contractual restraints and agreements involved has to run its own course and see where it ends up........
Love Football
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someguyjc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4K,
Visits: 0
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+xThat sounds pretty positive But why on earth would a tv deal prefer a cl model over a h and a model Short answer is a CL would be able to be sold to a broadcaster at a far lower price as there would be far fewer games than a regular home/away league. Far easier sell.
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numklpkgulftumch
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ I knew that it was designed to fail. How exactly was it 'designed to fail'? Simple. Build an inflexible model that is unattainable for most clubs. Or just about all clubs from the sounds of it. Why wasn't the model modified to ensure it was within reach for 10-12 clubs? Because where does the money come from? It's all well and good for APL to potentially subsidise it (more) - that might even have been an option if they hadn't squandered all the money - but in the long run there has to be a balance between what the clubs put in, and what the league can put in - which would depend on sponsorship/media interest in the long run. The criteria/model was worked on for a long time and is probably fairly realistic for a semi-pro nation-wide league. Everything has also gotten much more expensive since this concept began life a few years ago - and the financial gap between NPL clubs and A League clubs continues to widen. I'm only a little surprised it hasn't gotten up, but I was banking on it failing after a season or two when some clubs began to struggle. Those who thought we could have P/R to the a league in 5 years time are in lala land - it would be a death sentence for any npl club getting promoted to the a league - especially this season (perhaps with the exception of one or two). There is NO pro/rel to Aleague and never has it been on the table... Financial modelling and criteria where laid out in November last year so not sure what has changed since then economically in your view? I know it hasn't been - I badly wrote my bit because a lot of people on here, in their excitement at the proposal of the NST, have been more or less demanding P/R to the A league in the not too distant future. And this is before it even got off the ground. Point being there's no money... Point being, any money will dry up without P/R asap We've already seen what a Closed Competition with nothing to play for has to resort to try and keep fans awake 
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