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spectacular291
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Timmo wrote:We pretty much have the stadiums in place except probably the main issues are
Brisbane and Sydney playing in under half-full capacity during the regular season
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast.
this but I do think Sydney need to find somewhere other than Sydney Football Stadium, I know that place is the epicentre, but having that stadium fill up with only 8000 people on average looks quite bad, tbh when watching the roosters and the waratahs, the place looks empty majority of the time i see it
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kapow!
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spectacular291 wrote:Timmo wrote:We pretty much have the stadiums in place except probably the main issues are
Brisbane and Sydney playing in under half-full capacity during the regular season
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast.
this but I do think Sydney need to find somewhere other than Sydney Football Stadium, I know that place is the epicentre, but having that stadium fill up with only 8000 people on average looks quite bad, tbh when watching the roosters and the waratahs, the place looks empty majority of the time i see it They could try filling it? Their stadium deal is break even at worse.
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spectacular291
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kapow! wrote:spectacular291 wrote:Timmo wrote:We pretty much have the stadiums in place except probably the main issues are
Brisbane and Sydney playing in under half-full capacity during the regular season
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast.
this but I do think Sydney need to find somewhere other than Sydney Football Stadium, I know that place is the epicentre, but having that stadium fill up with only 8000 people on average looks quite bad, tbh when watching the roosters and the waratahs, the place looks empty majority of the time i see it They could try filling it? Their stadium deal is break even at worse. Very True. I'm really hoping that season memberships are good this year
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Shatter
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Personally, I think stadiums are an over-rated issue.
If we (Sydney FC) were playing out of homebush, then it would be a pressing issue. I still don't see why so many people complain about the SFS though. It's 10 minutes walk from Central. Wherever you play from, there will be Sydney-siders who live reasonably far away. I don't continually hear issues with the Swans at the SCG or the Waratahs or the Roosters etc. The real issue is that the crowds are too low. That's a club problem, not a stadium problem.
I haven't been to the other grounds but they all look pretty good to me.
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tomw
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nhub24 wrote:kapow! wrote:nhub24 wrote: The perfect example:
Cost: About $200 million AUD
Cost: Estimated 200 million AUD
Cost: About 350 million AUD
Cost: Estimated 100 million AUD
Cost: About 340 million AUD
What do you think?
I think cost is a big problem.:) Were not Zimbabwe, we do have some money ;) That's the issue though. Deep down in the contract's fine print, state that all prices are in Zimbabwean dollars. Then all clubs could afford one. Or three! Edited by tomw: 11/7/2011 06:49:19 PM
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Benchwarmer
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nhub24 wrote:Benchwarmer wrote:Our stadiums aren't that bad. The only teams with stadia considerably larger than attendance is Sydney and Brisbane. I think better investment would be in training venues ie. What CCM are doing. Wellington, Heart, Newcastle and Perth, Adelaide need a more modenized stadium. Heart are playing in the most modern rectangular stadium in Australia Newcastle's stadium has a newly redeveloped western stand. Perth's stadium is planning to redevelop the Eastern stand. Adelaide (I've heard) are one of the few teams to make a profit on matchday. Their stadium size is, according to your preference, ideal. All modern stadia built by the government are owned by the government. When was the last time a sporting club built a modern stadium with minimal government assistance?
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notorganic
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tomw wrote:nhub24 wrote:kapow! wrote:nhub24 wrote: The perfect example:
Cost: About $200 million AUD
Cost: Estimated 200 million AUD
Cost: About 350 million AUD
Cost: Estimated 100 million AUD
Cost: About 340 million AUD
What do you think?
I think cost is a big problem.:) Were not Zimbabwe, we do have some money ;) That's the issue though. Deep down in the contract's fine print, state that all prices are is Zimbabwean dollars. Then all clubs could afford one. Or three! ZWD$200mil is about AUD$500k
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Ali07
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Interesting plan...now come up with one to get the clubs the money they'd need...:lol:
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ual
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paulbagzFC wrote:MaxiiGCU wrote:The FC Thun stadium would be perfect for us.
Edited by MaxiiGCU: 11/7/2011 05:07:41 PM And it is. Now if only Clive would dig into his pockets and just build you one! -PB Expecting someone to spend 100m of their own money for a stadium is a bit much, isn't it?
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RJL25
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Joffa wrote:I think the biggest issue in regards to stadiums is the lack of ownership,or at the very least the stadium deals, as opposed to the size of the stadiums. This Really its only a few stadiums that are an issue, all stadiums in Queensland because of the unbelievably stupid stance of Stadiums Queensland who sent the Fury broke, sent the Roar broke (twice) and have only failed to send GCU broke due to the vast cash reserves of Clive Palmer. Other then that, the Sydney Football Stadium wouldn't be a problem if Sydney FC would live up to their potential and get the kind of average crowds they should be getting, Newcastle is fine, CCM is fine, Victory is fine, Phoenix is fine, Heart need bigger crowds but they have only been going one season so cut them some slack, Adelaide have a perfect stadium, and Perth seem to have a very good stadium too. The problem is that the clubs simply don't own their own stadiums though, thats the issue because it prevents them from having an additional source of revenue like the european clubs do. But look at MLS, they eventually built their own stadiums, but it didn't happen over night, it takes time!
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redsfan
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stadium ownership is not the be all and end all of it, it's the return generated from the stadium thats the problem. If owning the stadium would fix the problem maybe it's the answer but the maintainence of a club owned stadium isn't cheap and with the limited use it would get from an a-league club it would have to be whored out to all and sundry to be profitable. Very few club in Italy own their own stadiums though there is a bit of move towards it.
Virtually none of the AFL clubs own their own stadiums but some clubs generate huge income from the ones they play out of simply due to having a rental policy that allows it.
Clubs must have the ability to generate income to the best of their ability from the stadium they operate out of, and the answer to doing this isn't going to be the same for all clubs due to huge variables from club to club.
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icoulddoitbetter
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Timmo wrote:
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast
what?? gold coast could use a third stadium, something that fits about 12k and can be used for concerts/gold coast soccer events would be great
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icoulddoitbetter
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redsfan wrote:stadium ownership is not the be all and end all of it, it's the return generated from the stadium thats the problem. If owning the stadium would fix the problem maybe it's the answer but the maintainence of a club owned stadium isn't cheap and with the limited use it would get from an a-league club it would have to be whored out to all and sundry to be profitable. Very few club in Italy own their own stadiums though there is a bit of move towards it.
Virtually none of the AFL clubs own their own stadiums but some clubs generate huge income from the ones they play out of simply due to having a rental policy that allows it.
Clubs must have the ability to generate income to the best of their ability from the stadium they operate out of, and the answer to doing this isn't going to be the same for all clubs due to huge variables from club to club. stadiums which are too large for a club will have a negative influence on crowed figures.. that one of the key reasons MLS clubs moved into ssmaller venues, it actually boosted average crowd figures by downgrading.. like a nightclub.. too much open space and people wont go there
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Sirocco
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Its unreasonable to expect A-league clubs to be building $100 million + stadiums. However controlling the revenue from the stadium is the key. Take a look at Metricon Stadium on the Gold Coast. The Suns don't own it but have a great deal. What makes it such a windfall for the AFL's newest club is the fact that they have a "clean" stadium, which means they have sole management rights of the venue.
Any income generated, such as signage and food and beverage sales, goes into club coffers.
The Suns can also hire out the venue in summer to cricket or as a concert venue.
Unlike other AFL arenas with naming-rights sponsors, such as Etihad Stadium, Patersons Stadium in Perth and AAMI Stadium in Adelaide, the Suns do not have to share the income.
It gives the Suns a significant advantage over cross-town rivals the Titans, who are not direct beneficiaries of the income from the naming-rights contract at Skilled Park.http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2011/03/15/299455_gold-coast-afl.htmlEdited by Sirocco: 11/7/2011 09:34:11 PMEdited by Sirocco: 11/7/2011 09:38:32 PM
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RJL25
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icoulddoitbetter wrote:Timmo wrote:
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast
what?? gold coast could use a third stadium, something that fits about 12k and can be used for concerts/gold coast soccer events would be great Honestly, what GCU needs is a little stadium, a cheap little 3,000 seat grandstand on either side, and a hill at both ends. Problem is the FFA won't allow it because its not up to Fox Sports broadcast standards.
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Sirocco
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RJL25 wrote:
Problem is the FFA won't allow it because its not up to Fox Sports broadcast standards.
If Foxtel can broadcast NRL games from places like Brookvale and Leichardt Oval then they shouldn't be demanding better stadiums from the A-league. Edited by Sirocco: 11/7/2011 09:39:54 PM
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Timmo
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icoulddoitbetter wrote:Timmo wrote:
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast
what?? gold coast could use a third stadium, something that fits about 12k and can be used for concerts/gold coast soccer events would be great And what to do with skilled park for 6 months?
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RJL25
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Timmo wrote:icoulddoitbetter wrote:Timmo wrote:
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast
what?? gold coast could use a third stadium, something that fits about 12k and can be used for concerts/gold coast soccer events would be great And what to do with skilled park for 6 months? Thats Stadiums Queensland's problem, let them sort it out! Might make them realise that they are massive cunts who are operating the PUBLICALLY OWNED stadiums as a business for profit, rather then as a PUBLICALLY OWNED asset for the public to enjoy
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Reedy
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Sirocco wrote:RJL25 wrote:
Problem is the FFA won't allow it because its not up to Fox Sports broadcast standards.
If Foxtel can broadcast NRL games from places like Brookvale and Leichardt Oval then they shouldn't be demanding better stadiums from the A-league. Edited by Sirocco: 11/7/2011 09:39:54 PM I thought the guidelines set by the AFC stated that the stadiums should be of 10000 person capacity? I didn't know Fox Sports had standards to follow. (Although it wouldn't be a surprise) As for people telling Sydney to move, the previous CEO, Edwin Lugt, stated a few times that they were locked in to the stadium deal for another 5 years or something, so moving out probably isn't an option.
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f1dave
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I said in a blog a long while back now that the FFA should have a future fund for infrastructure stadium works - to at least contribute to building/improvements.
The A-League went too big with its stadium choices in many cities - there's nothing wrong with playing out of a humble 10-15,000 person capacity ground if that suits your attendances and thus paying less for it. If you make the AFC comp, great - most cities have an AFL stadium or a 'big' rectangular venue. Use them. Not ideal for those games, but a much better option than losing loadsamoney.
Edited by f1dave: 11/7/2011 11:26:41 PM
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Benjamin
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Doesn't have to be state of the art...  13k seats, approx $25m to build at today's costs (plus land-costs). Probably a bit more to build in Australia because of the way our builders work (Gyfox would be able to give a more accurate number).
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dale1878
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Benjamin wrote:Doesn't have to be state of the art... 13k seats, approx $25m to build at today's costs (plus land-costs). Probably a bit more to build in Australia because of the way our builders work (Gyfox would be able to give a more accurate number). Is that Saputo? They have to upgrade it to join the MLS, to the tune of $23m from the Quebecois government.  
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WastedYouth
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dale1878 wrote:Benjamin wrote:Doesn't have to be state of the art... 13k seats, approx $25m to build at today's costs (plus land-costs). Probably a bit more to build in Australia because of the way our builders work (Gyfox would be able to give a more accurate number). Is that Saputo? They have to upgrade it to join the MLS, to the tune of $23m from the Quebecois government. 25 million ay....AAMI cost 300 million?
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dale1878
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nhub24 wrote:25 million ay....AAMI cost 300 million? AAMI Park is a state of the art facility; Stade Saputo is scaffolding, seats and turf.
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paulbagzFC
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Sirocco wrote:RJL25 wrote:
Problem is the FFA won't allow it because its not up to Fox Sports broadcast standards.
If Foxtel can broadcast NRL games from places like Brookvale and Leichardt Oval then they shouldn't be demanding better stadiums from the A-league. Edited by Sirocco: 11/7/2011 09:39:54 PM Exactly. Look at the places Sky Sports go to during the FA Cup. Fox just needs to pull its head out of its arse. And anyone who says Skilled Park is enough for GCU, has cleary never been to the stadium and realised how far out of the way of anything it is. -PB
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danp638
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RJL25 wrote:Timmo wrote:icoulddoitbetter wrote:Timmo wrote:
gold Coast united which is an entirely different problem altogether and I don't see anyone needed to build a 3rd stadium on the Gold coast
what?? gold coast could use a third stadium, something that fits about 12k and can be used for concerts/gold coast soccer events would be great And what to do with skilled park for 6 months? Thats Stadiums Queensland's problem, let them sort it out! Might make them realise that they are massive cunts who are operating the PUBLICALLY OWNED stadiums as a business for profit, rather then as a PUBLICALLY OWNED asset for the public to enjoy Stadiums Queensland will sort it out, one quick phone call to big brother and you'll soon start seeing all the road blocks you could possibly imagine. The fact governments invest in stadiums means you'll be lucky to ever get a rival stadium to be considered let alone approved by the same government to compete with the nice big and expensive political statement down the road.
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danp638
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dale1878 wrote:nhub24 wrote:25 million ay....AAMI cost 300 million? AAMI Park is a state of the art facility; Stade Saputo is scaffolding, seats and turf. does it even have seats or is it bench seating?
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Red_or_Dead
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nhub24 wrote:The Swiss Super League. The perfect example:
FC Basel
St. Jakob-Park
Average crowd 29,000
Highest crowd 38,500
Stadium capacity 38,500
Can be expanded to 45,000
Cost: About 220 million AUD
THIS IS PRETTY MUCH SFS OR ETIHAD STADIUM (ALREADY EXPANDED).
Neuchatel Xamax
Stade de la Maladière
Average crowd 5,000
Highest crowd 12,000
Stadium capacity 12,000
Can be expanded to 18,000
Cost: About $200 million AUD
THIS IS WHERE GOLD COAST SHOULD BE PLAYING
FC Luzern
Swissporarena
Average crowd 8,000
Highest crowd 9,000
Stadium capacity 17,000
Can be expanded to 20,000
Cost: Estimated 200 million AUD
THIS ONE SHOULD BE BUILT IN HOBART ;-)
BSC Young Boys Bern
Stade de Suisse, Wankdorf
Average crowd 21,000
Highest crowd 31,000
Stadium Capacity 32,000
Can be expanded to 45,000
Cost: About 350 million AUD
THIS ONE IS PRETTY MUCH AAMI PARK
FC Thun
Arena Thun
Average crowd 5,000
Highest crowd 9,500
Stadium capacity 10,000
Can be expanded to 13,500
Cost: Estimated 100 million AUD
THIS IS SOUTH MELBOURNE'S GROUND @ LAKESIDE OVAL (EXPANSION IN PROGRESS)
FC St. Gallen
AFG Arena
Average crowd 13,000
Highest crowd 19,500
Stadium capacity 19,500~20,000
Can be expanded to 27,000
Cost: About 340 million AUD
THIS IS WHAT PERTH GLORY NEEDS!!!
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Gyfox
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Heart_Fan10 wrote:we've already taken a step in the right direction with aami park which has a capacity of 30,050 and can be expanded In its current "elegant form" it cannot be expanded. That design was pushed to its ultimate limit when it was taken from 20,000 to 30,000 capacity. Sure the foundations were constructed to take greater loads but that was done pretty much as an afterthought with no realistic design in mind. I am advised by a stadium architect who has seen the sketches for the expansion scheme that it something you really wouldn't want to do.
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Gyfox
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nhub24 wrote:dale1878 wrote:Benjamin wrote:Doesn't have to be state of the art... 13k seats, approx $25m to build at today's costs (plus land-costs). Probably a bit more to build in Australia because of the way our builders work (Gyfox would be able to give a more accurate number). Is that Saputo? They have to upgrade it to join the MLS, to the tune of $23m from the Quebecois government. 25 million ay....AAMI cost 300 million? With the upgrade its around $50M which works out to around $4k a seat. This is a bottom end stadium cost. This /seat cost doesn't include works outside the stadium structure which can be very expensive. At $9K a seat AAMI Park ($268M) is at the top end of stadium costs behind only the iconic large capacity stadiums. Edited by gyfox: 12/7/2011 09:53:29 AM
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