I'm talking about the relationship between Ballarat and Bendigo with Geelong, and my skeptisism that those areas (and I grew up in one of them) would fall under a Geelong support base, given that all three of Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo are about equidistant to Melbourne (about 100km) and while there's about that same difference between Ballarat and Geelong, Bendigo is on the far side of Melbourne to the north from Geelong, just like Newy is from Woollongong, so I felt it was a perfectly apt comparison.

Geography aside, potential fans from Ballarat and Bendigo (like myself) would already be supporting a Melbourne team in lieu of a local one, so I don't see why a Geelong team would seek to represent that area.

State league clubs possess their own fan base, own community ties, are clubs that run from top to bottom and have cheap, proper sized stadiums. This is cheaper and more affective than buying and making whole new McFranchises. And plus, it makes the game more interesting. I've actually preferred going to Preseason friendlies. Good cheap food made by people who love their culture and high quality football. What more can you ask for?

The expansion will stop anyway before the Cup. I reckon they would rather bring clubs up than make new ones from scratch.

How about
A-league - current 10 + Canberra, South Coast, NQ, Ipswich/Sunshine Coast
2nd div - 1.npl winner(nsw), 2.npl winner (qld), 3.npl winner(Vic), 4. npl winner(SA), 5. npl winner(tas), 6. Npl winner(WA) 7.Npl winner (nnsw) 8.auckland 9.npl nsw 2nd place, 10. npl Vic 2nd place
3rd div - npl state conferences

Promotion
To a-league - promotion is via on field success and meeting certain criteria (stadium, financial, crowds, etc)
From a-league - none unless bankruptcy

From 3rd div to 2nd div - bottom two play off against the winner of their respective npl conference winner..


Easy and affordable. And can be started as soon as possible.
That's a ten team second division you

Would someone mind explaining to me why Fremantle has suddenly become the new expansion club darling?

Would someone mind explaining to me why Fremantle has suddenly become the new expansion club darling?

I think the success of both the Melbourne and Sydney derbies has made people look at the possibility of replicating them in some of the other capital cities. There would need to be significant effort put into strengthening the existing clubs before it could be done but the likelihood of success is far greater than some of the regional "towns" suggested that haven't got a hope in hell of finding the $7m pa it takes to run an A-League club.

Thanks.

I would've thought Brisbane/Ipswich would be in line for a second team before Perth/Freo. Heck, even Gold Coast mark II.

I agree that a second club in south east Qld is a priority. Timing and location are the crucial things to get right.

Yeah this pretty much - a Geelong team would be Geelong only, and potentially a bit of the surf coast (down to Torquay etc). Ballarat and Bendigo fans would not flock to us because there is literally no reason for them to. Heck, only reason you'd get people switching from the Victory to the new Geelong team (I'm wrestling with the thought of what do I do if the time comes) is simply because they're the local side - Geelong wouldn't be a 'local' side for Ballarat or Bendigo residents. I see you're from Sydney, so I don't expect you to understand but honestly, Victorians only care about two places - their local area, and Melbourne. Anything else and we don't give two hoots.

IMO, I want this by around 2030

A-League
1. Adelaide United
2. Brisbane Roar
3. Central Coast Mariners
4. Melbourne Victory
5. Newcastle Jets
6. Perth Glory
7. South Melbourne Heart
8. Sydney FC
9. Wellington Phoenix
10. Western Sydney Wanderers

New teams (in order)
11. Wollongong Wolves
12. Ipswich Pride
13. Canberra Comets/Cosmos
14. Geelong
15. south-east melbourne suburbs
16. Auckland Knights
17. 2nd adelaide
18. 2nd perth

A2
1. Darwin FC
2. Northern Fury
3. Hobart
4. Launceston
5. Gold Coast United
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?

First past the post in A-League, 18th is automatically relegated with 17th and 16th playing off at the home of 16th.

In A2 1st is promoted as long as they have an average crowd of over 7,500, same with the second and third play-off winner

Fremantle are suggested because mike Cockerill said it, I'm not sure what makes him think Perth/Fremantle is worthy of a 2Nd team.

Before anything happens, Glory need to be in the green, getting consistent 16k crowds, research needs to be done, is the south, North or east really untapped by Glory, would the team require a stadium in the expansion area or would it just base itself out of that area and play out of NIB, also you don't want to create an AFL divide, many in the south still follow eagles. I wouldn't name the team Fremantle but something like Southern Perth FC.

Sadly I think a 2nd team is ages away, there just isn't much interest in the A-league here, most follow AFL and most of the football supporters are euro snobs.

Fremantle are suggested because mike Cockerill said it, I'm not sure what makes him think Perth/Fremantle is worthy of a 2Nd team.

Before anything happens, Glory need to be in the green, getting consistent 16k crowds, research needs to be done, is the south, North or east really untapped by Glory, would the team require a stadium in the expansion area or would it just base itself out of that area and play out of NIB, also you don't want to create an AFL divide, many in the south still follow eagles. I wouldn't name the team Fremantle but something like Southern Perth FC.

Sadly I think a 2nd team is ages away, there just isn't much interest in the A-league here, most follow AFL and most of the football supporters are euro snobs.

A second WA team would be better suited to the southwest area around Bunbury/Bussleton. Good participation on the south west, far enough away that the supporters are only associated with being Glory fans rather than being a proper Glory catchment, they have a decent league and they produce some decent talent. Not a big enough market to say they are ready for a HAL presence, but certainly the best positioned should HAL take off in popularity nationally. In the sweet spot of distance from Perth that they are far enough away to be different but close enough for Glory supporters to travel in large(r) numbers and create a good away atmosphere. Rail infrastructure in place makes interstate fans travel longer than Perth (obv) but by no means that difficult.

Freo would be only a slightly better version of Melbourne Heart (as at least there is a separation between Perth and Freo, but Perth is so small it might as well be the same catchment)

Uk you might be onto something there, I thought the south west population was only around 60k, being far to small for an A-league team but it's currently at 163k and by 2031 projected to be 230k.

At June 2012, the estimated resident population of Western Australia (WA) was 2.43 million people, which represented 11% of the total Australian population. WA's population increased by 3.3% (or 78,000 people) between 2011 and 2012. This was the fastest growth of all the states and territories, and much higher than the national figure of 1.6%.

SA2 POPULATION CHANGE, Western Australia - 2011-12


POPULATION CHANGE IN GREATER PERTH

At June 2012, the population of Greater Perth was 1.90 million people, which was 78% of the state's total population. Between 2011 and 2012, Greater Perth increased by 65,400 people, or 3.6%. This was the fastest growth of all capital cities in Australia.

The largest population growth in WA in 2011-12 occurred in the outer suburban fringes of Greater Perth. The south-west SA2 of Baldivis had the largest increase, up by 2,800 people. Ellenbrook in the north-east and Forrestdale - Harrisdale - Piara Waters in the south-east followed, increasing by 2,400 and 1,800 people respectively. Large growth was also recorded in the north-western SA2s including Butler - Merriwa - Ridgewood (up 1,600 people), and Madeley - Darch - Landsdale and Yanchep (both 1,500).

Forrestdale - Harrisdale - Piara Waters in the south-east was the fastest-growing SA2 within Greater Perth in 2011-12, increasing by 24% to reach 9,600. This was followed by Yanchep, Baldivis, Byford and Bertram - Wellard (West), all located in the outer suburban fringes of Greater Perth, which each increased by over 12%.

Victoria's estimated resident population at June 2011 was 5.53 million people. In the ten years to 2011, Victoria had the second largest growth of all states and territories, after Queensland, with a population increase of 729,800. The state grew by 15% over this period, equal to Australia as a whole.

SA2 POPULATION CHANGE, Victoria - 2001-11


At June 2011 there were an estimated 4.17 million people resident in Greater Melbourne, an increase of 647,200 since June 2001. The capital city grew by 18% over the decade, which was faster than the average of Australia's capital cities (17%).

Greater Melbourne accounted for 75% of Victoria's population at June 2011, compared with 73% at June 2001. Population growth in Greater Melbourne equated to 89% of Victoria's total growth between 2001 and 2011.

Growth in the outer suburbs of Greater Melbourne contributed the most to Victoria's population growth in the ten years to June 2011. In most cases, growth in the outer suburbs reflects greenfield development activity. Within Greater Melbourne, the fastest growing SA4s also had the largest growth. Melbourne - West increased by 182,800 (40%) over the ten years to 2011 to reach 638,900. In the same period, Melbourne - South East (up 135,600 people or 25%), Melbourne - North East (62,700 or 16%) and Melbourne - North West (50,500 or 18%) also had strong growth.

Many of the fastest growing SA2s were located within Melbourne - West. Taylors Hill, Cairnlea, Point Cook, Tarneit and Truganina all grew at an average annual rate of 30% or above in the ten years to 2011. Point Cook and Tarneit also had large population growth between 2001 and 2011. Point Cook grew by 31,300, while Tarneit grew by 21,000 people.

South Morang SA2, in Melbourne - North East, had the largest increase in population within Greater Melbourne over the ten years to 2011, growing by 32,200 people, and accounted for more than half of the population growth in Melbourne - North East over the decade.

Rapid population increases were also seen in SA2s in the outer suburbs of Melbourne - South East. Lynbrook - Lyndhurst, Cranbourne East, Pakenham - South, and Berwick South all recorded growth of more than 150% in the ten years ending 2011.

Inner-city residential development was another driver of population growth within Greater Melbourne. Melbourne - Inner was one of the fastest growing SA4s in the state between June 2001 and June 2011, growing by 23% (or 100,000 people) to reach 534,300. Within Melbourne - Inner, the SA2 of Melbourne had the largest population growth over the decade, increasing by 14,200 people to reach 21,900. Docklands had the fastest growth in the inner-city, growing from 160 people at June 2001 by an average annual rate of 45% to reach 6,200 at June 2011. Other inner-city SA2s with large growth included Southbank (up 7,900 people), Carlton (5,600) and North Melbourne (4,800).

Of the eight SA4s in regional Victoria, Geelong had the largest and fastest growth (29,300 people or 13%) between June 2001 and June 2011, bringing its population to 255,700. Bendigo's population grew 9.5% over the ten years to reach 142,400 and Ballarat's grew 8.9% to 148,100. This was faster than the overall growth for regional Victoria (6.4%).

At the SA2 level, the areas within regional Victoria with the largest population increases from 2001 to 2011 were in and around the main regional cities and coastal towns. The three largest increases occurred within the Geelong SA4, where Grovedale grew by 5,400 people, Torquay by 5,000, and Highton by 4,000. Elsewhere, Traralgon in Victoria's east grew by 3,800 people, and Mildura in the north-west grew by 3,700.

The regional SA2s with the fastest growth were within or close to the main regional centres. Bannockburn, near Geelong, grew by 82% in the ten years to 2011, followed by Strathfieldsaye (68%) and Maiden Gully (57%), both in Bendigo, and Torquay (48%), on the coast near Geelong.

At June 2011, the estimated resident population of Queensland was 4.47 million people, an increase of 845,200 since June 2001. In the ten years to 2011, Queensland's population grew by 23%, which was the second fastest growth of all states and territories, behind Western Australia at 24%.

SA2 POPULATION CHANGE, Queensland - 2001-11


POPULATION CHANGE IN GREATER BRISBANE

At June 2011, the population of Greater Brisbane (which excludes the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast) was 2.15 million people, accounting for nearly half of Queensland's population. Between 2001 and 2011, the population of Greater Brisbane increased by 25% (432,300 people), the second fastest growth of all capital cities, behind Greater Perth (26%).

Ipswich had the largest growth of all SA4s in Greater Brisbane, with an increase of 70,800 people in the ten years to 2011. This was followed by Brisbane - South (up 57,100 people) and Moreton Bay - North (53,700).

The SA4s with the fastest population increases in Greater Brisbane were Moreton Bay - South, which grew by 41% between 2001 and 2011, Ipswich (32%), Moreton Bay - North (32%) and Brisbane Inner City (29%). These were also among the ten fastest growing SA4s in Australia.

In the ten years to 2011, the SA2s with the largest growth in Greater Brisbane were North Lakes - Mango Hill (up 17,100 people), Springfield Lakes (which increased from zero population in 2001 to 10,600 people in 2011) and Cashmere (up 9,200).

The fastest growing SA2s in Greater Brisbane were North Lakes - Mango Hill, Wakerley, Pallara - Willawong and Brisbane City, which each increased at an average annual rate of more than 12%.

POPULATION CHANGE IN THE REMAINDER OF QUEENSLAND

The population of the remainder of Queensland increased by 412,900 people in the ten years to June 2011, to reach 2.33 million. Nearly half of this growth was in the SA4s of Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast.

Gold Coast had the largest growth in Queensland over the ten years to 2011, increasing by 129,700 people to 527,500, while Sunshine Coast grew by 69,700 people to 316,900. Other SA4s in the remainder of Queensland with large population increases were also coastal. They were Wide Bay (up 47,200 people), Cairns (38,200), Townsville (34,900) and Mackay (33,800).

Many of these SA4s also had rapid growth in the ten years to 2011, with Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Mackay and Wide Bay each increasing by more than 20%.


Gold Coast

In the ten years to June 2011, the SA2s with the largest growth on the Gold Coast were Upper Coomera - Willow Vale which increased by 16,800 people, and Pacific Pines - Gaven which increased by 11,500 people. These were the largest growing SA2s in the remainder of Queensland, and among the largest growing in all of Queensland.

The three fastest growing SA2s in the remainder of Queensland were on the Gold Coast. The fastest growing was Coomera, followed by Pacific Pines - Gaven and Upper Coomera - Willow Vale, each increasing at an average annual rate of more than 12% between 2001 and 2011. These areas were also among the ten fastest growing SA2s in Queensland.


Sunshine Coast

In the ten years to June 2011, the SA2 on the Sunshine Coast with the largest growth was Caloundra - West (up 9,900 people), followed by Sippy Downs (6,100) and Peregian (4,500).

Sippy Downs was also the fastest growing area on the Sunshine Coast, increasing by 184% in the ten years from 2001 to 2011. This was followed by Caloundra - West (178%) and Peregian (124%).

I'd love to see a SW team in the A-League, but I'd say those numbers are still way too small.
Even working on the projected 230k, to get a crowd of 10,000 to a match would require about 1 in 20 people in the entire SW to attend.
By comparison, Perth Glory's match last weekend had a crowd of 13,800 which is about 1 person out of 135 in Perth attending the match. And that's with NIB being closer and easier to get to for the people of Perth than Bunbury being for most people in the SW.

my edits, and i see what you did there

When the HAL started up, the Central Coast region was 280k. Once you are hitting the mid-200s it becomes feasible if managed correctly. The southwest doesn't have any form of major sporting team to follow, having the first national league team in that region would grab a large chunk of the market (who are already invested in participation in the sport) and would also have a flow-on effect outside of the sport towards the growth of the region as it's own city-hub, which there is a strong desire for. Lifestyle down there is also fantastic (and cheap), which is a bonus for attracting players. Has potential to be a really solid community-driven club. This is quite long term, however.

A northern team would be called the Joondalup Snobs. I didn't realise Bendigo and Ballarat had such a big population 0.0. Will add your posts to OP.

fair enough, i felt that since the victorian goldmines will not be fielding a team in the foreseeable future, having an association with a new expansion club would be of benefit for them, but i guess they probably would stick with their melbourne allegiances.

Yeah not going to happen, apart from the fact that Geelong is a hole and has absolutely nothing at all to do with Ballarat let alone Bendigo, for purely practical purposes there are hourly trains to Melbourne and only two buses a day to Geelong. That being said there should be enough people in Geelong, the Bellarine, and the Surf Coast to support a team.

I'm a fan of s south WA team in the future but there is a lot if issues.

Can someone frpm Perth explain to me how the AFL successfully implemented Freo? It kinda seems like Melbourne Heart (New team added to a one team city with an already succesful team) and yet Freo are a very well supported club.

If we ever intend to add WA 2, SA 2, Melb/Vic 3, Sydeny 3 etc we need to figure out how to target those not alresdy engaged. Thos is the only downside of the Wanderers success. Makes Syd 3 significantly harder.


Edited by TimmyJ: 2/11/2013 12:22:37 AM