I'm not saying I see A-League clubs as plastic. Just explaining why some people see them that way - especially at inception. In my original out I pointed out Fury as proving some teams can survive for community interests as opposed to corporate interests.

Tbf, most of those are there in a sort of "keep your enemies closer" sort of role :P

Al Qaeda is even fighting against ISIL sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......

I was using my idiotic point to meet his idiotic point.
As you yourself mentioned UAE ownership has nothing to do with the issues in the Gulf.

Edited by robbos: 25/9/2014 10:56:56 AM

Why do we care were the money comes from? As long as the bills are clean who gives a shit.

Competition is such a pest!

I went to Edensor Park on Tuesday night as a SFC fan, it was a great night, this club so steep with history, the club & land brought & build by the ethnic Croatian community.
This club produced a lot of our great socceroos, including both coaches on the sideline. We as football fans should be proud of their history as they & many clubs like them build football in this country.
The atmosphere was good the tension was there between the fans during the game as per any game between set of fans at a football game.
I have no issue with this club existing in it's current form, the color & the passion is there, however, for any innocent bystander this was an ethnic Croatian club in every sense, it would struggle to gain wider acceptance of the community. Now is this an issue, no if you accept that you will go down there hear Croatian spoken, hear Croatian songs being sung by the fans & eat Croatian food (I too come from an ethnic background & love all the variety of foods in Australia).
Now if I had Japanese background or African background or a dinky di Aussie, would I accept this or would I rather a more multi cultural team like WSW?

This is the question to all perceived mono ethnicity clubs around Australia.

Australia the FFA and the football public need to make a choice

The path we are on now with our National Domestic Competition, in the form of the A-League and our State Competitions in the form of the NPL, are nothing but restrictive practices designed to develop brands and revenues.
And thats all good if thats all the consensus wants. For the casual fans spectators and football consumers, the HAL really is little more than a pastime along the other lines of entertainment such as the movies, threatre , AFL and NRL.

Expansion is now talked of in terms of "markets", football markets, geographic markets, TV markets, economic viability, etc. etc.

So far the choice is the status quo, and thats fine too.

On the other hand this football consensus we now have cannot go on about a non-existent football development model of the local player. The local player is not developing to world wide standards, as we began to acheive in the recent past. The best entertainment in the HAL is not on the pitch its off the pitch with the active support. And even now the marketing gurus of the FFA and franchises are not sure they want that.
We have a soccer media that is doing the game a dis-service this article being another example, http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2014/09/24/key-successful-league-expansion .

If we really aspire to be a power football nation then we are not going about it the right way.

WIthout a true football pyramid based on promotion and relegation we will never;
- develop youth domestically to the senior international standards required to be successful on the international stage and world cups, players will only develop so far in the current domestic system
- develop football clubs on par with the best in the world the HAL franchises have the show (the match day event)but not the go (match performance)
- develop a National Team to compete at World level and by that I mean winning Asian nation Cups and finishing top 4 at the World Cup

We are labouring under a cartel system, that is centralised, rationalised and controlled to create an "equal" environment one that is anti-competitive and promotes football mediocrity.

Promotion and relegation is the only way; that the best will succceed, innovation and hardwork rewarded with promotion. The lazy and second-rate punished with relegation.

That doesn't mean promotion is based solely on the points table but it is the first assesment.

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 12:53:34 PM

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 12:59:56 PM

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 01:15:33 PM

Consensus suggest that it's 1 fan, 1 vote

HAL is actually run on $1, 1 vote

The sooner the better

Then when a Franchise falls over there's no need to prop it up.

As much as I would like to see a true Football Pyramid with promotion and relegation,I know in my lifetime it will never happen.
Australia unfortunately is unique with it's massive size and relatively small population.Add in numerous competing sports and the Football Pyramid from the lowest tier to the highest is just about impossible at this point in time.
Furthermore the Football Pyramid guarantees nothing regarding player development.Refer to England for a basket case.
In Australia we are forced to have a highly structured system just to survive.
Until copious amounts of money flood into the game we are stuck with what we have.

Have basically lurked for this whole thread's existence, so much I want to say, will start with teams specifically.

So to pick up what GloryPerth was saying about Brisbane and surrounding areas, I have a few questions:

Brisbane Strikers

-Would be the (Brisbane 2) team
-Based out of South Brisbane, stretching into Logan and other Sth Brisbane territories
-Training base at Meakin Park (?), existing infrastructure/community
-Would possibly play games out of Queensland Athletics Centre (which based on google maps looks close to the city and based on anecdotal evidence from another poster is quite well serviced by public transport) BUT stadium would need work AND athletics people would need to move to nearby uni.
-Tendered a bid for an A League team but lost to Roar bid, can presume from this they are keen to be an A League team.
-History etc
-Fits into Gallop's desire to see a team in an area with millions of people
-Provides a Brissie derby and geographical distinction (presumably the Roar "catchment" would become "Nth Brisbane" due to Lang Park and their training base Perry Park being on north side of river and Strikers south)
-Likely to cannibalise Roar support


Ipswitch/SW Corridor

-Another possible (Brisbane 2) team
-Nth Ipswitch oval, would need work.
-Community/mayor keen.
-Growth projections high, so would eventually fit into Gallop's "fish where the fish are" theory, but probably not now (based on what you guys have said)
-Better geographical distinction than another Brisbane side, more likely to find fans wanting to identify as "NOT Brisbane", better derby potential.

So let's say they want to go for a Queensland team. Do they go for a Brisbane Strikers/The Brisbane 2 option, which would currently be the stronger option you would think, or do they hold off and wait for Ipswitch to grow a bit so they are ready for a team? I think if you went for Strikers now, you probably couldn't have that Ipswitch team for a long time, it would crowd the market. ALSO, if you went for Strikers now, you may be limiting the potential of Palm Beach/Gold Coast Mk II getting up further down the track?

Thoughts? Is that the general consensus/summary of Brisvegans on expansion in your region? N.B. I have never been to Brisbane, only going off the bit of research I have done on the internet + what I've heard in this thread.

As for Wollongong. Agree that it has to be based solely in Wollongong, no ground sharing bullshit. Gallop said "Fish where the fish are" but I think there is plenty of potential for away trips adding to attendances for a Wollongong team, more so than the Qld options. Brisbane 2 is going to have Brisbane fans only, whereas 4 NSW teams per round are going to add to Wollongong's numbers, at the least by a hundred or so, and at best by a few thousand. You may even get Perth and Wollongong reviving a rivalry. I agree with TheSelectFew that where possible we should be promoting existing clubs, so that also makes it a great option v Canberra, where you would potentially have to start a new franchise?

Canberra have probably come the closest to doing the most over the years, they were told to get 20000 to that Socceroos game and they did. They raised most of the money, got the community and government support, great turnouts for the Tuggies FFA Cup game on a cold Tuesday night. To people who actually know the Canberra market, would it be fair to say that a new franchise would have to be created for Canberra? If Tuggeranong were promoted would people from other parts of Canberra feel left out? It would have to be a team 'for all of Canberra' surely. Canberra have the links to the AIS/Canberra United going for them as well, sounds like other things holding them back (beside raising the money) is the "fish where the fish are" criteria i.e. lack of population and the stadium issue. By all your reports, Bruce Stadium is old and cold, the roof upgrade may attract more support but has been put on the back burner.

Based on these two alone, Wollongong seems to come out on top. (EDIT: Which you have all pretty well established, just adding my spin to it) The problem is always money though.

Edited by Reedy: 25/9/2014 02:56:53 PM

You say this now when your team is doing well. You would understand what it really means when you got relegated.
No, the aim to have financially stable teams in each of the major cities.
Relegation would destroy teams.

It's fine for teams like SU to promote this, they have there own ground & low costs etc.

What you want is the NSL. The A-League is much better.

Keep the a-league the "elite" league and run an NSL type, as per my example, model under it.

Who's really gonna care if Bonnyrigg play NE Metro or Bayswater in the A-League?

Edited by scott21: 25/9/2014 03:19:07 PM

SU did get 'relegated'



Whose aim ?



Yes, they've put the work in, why not ? That's waht real football clubs do the world over

If relegation was to destroy a team we can't really call ourselves a genuine football country.

Give 'em $2.5m worth of players each, who knows ? A Parramattafull appeared out of the woodwork 2 years ago.

You need to understand the situation. We're never going back the NSL.
Give it up.

The best you can hope for is a national 2nd tier comp.

The FFA will never give you millions.

Australia isn't a normal model. Geographically and demographically.
Australia is unique.

[size=7]IMO it's the aim of the FFA to have successful teams in each of the major cities[/size]





Edited by scott21: 25/9/2014 04:33:05 PM

why do you keep referring to a proper worldwide football model as going back to the Nsl?

It's ethnic segregation im referring to.

I want Sth melb in the a-league.
You should learn how not to act from the Croats.
Hope u play in the FFA Cup next year

Flares thrown over the fence "wasn't us, can't prove it"
Serbian Perth player abused "wasn't us can't prove it"
(The way he reacted after his goal is enough for me)
Player assaulting ref then claiming discrimination.
"Stick your a-league up your arse" was the chant.

A sour taste in my mouth. Happy they aren't involved anymore.

Sadly, we're not. We've got too many sports and media outlets trying to put us down. Until we're the number one sport in Australia, pro/rel is going to be a big struggle. The only way I can see it working is if:

- the FFA capitalise on all the junior participation. As we all know, football is the #1 played sport in Australia. If these kids keep football as their #1 sport, the rest will look after itself. The FFA need to do everything in their power to make this happen and

- each and every football fan in Australia is converted to being a 'fan of Australian football'. Basically what I'm saying is to have the eurosnobs and those 'A-League is shit, bring back the NSL' guys on board.

I think the A-League will always have the geographical and market considerations to be met by a club before ANY club is admitted. I never see that changing.

The NPL Championship/FFA Cup gives old soccer the chance to get on the national stage and mix it with new football to a little degree.

The next logical step up from the NPL is to create a truly nation second tier comp. That is partially now the case with the end of season NPL national play-offs to determine the NPL Champion.

The A-League can be filled out with new franchises and that can be up and running on it's own. New franchises will need to meet the geographical and market requirements specified by the FFA.

The new Tier 2 comp is just a step up from the NPL and allows old soccer to mix it on the national stage once more. I don't seeing it happen for the next two/three broadcast rights deals, but it will happen one day. All that's required is to cover travelling costs. These clubs still have their players, but now on a national stage. Their might be P&R between the NPLs and the Tier 2 comp from the get go, to filter out the dead wood from the Tier 2 comp. The bottom Tier 2 club gets relegated back to their state NPL and the NPL Champion gets promoted automatically (or maybe a playoff).

That can run for a number of years and then there might be the time to look at allowing limited P&R (or maybe just straight promotion) to the A-League from the Tier 2, only if the club coming up meets the geographical and market needs of the A-League, plus financials etc etc. If the club does not, it does not get promoted.

After a couple of Tier 2 clubs get promoted to the A-League and have been established for a number of years, then there might be relegation from the A-League introduced in some format on a very limited basis, again with the Tier 2 club coming up meeting all the A-League off-field requirements.

After that there might be a relaxation in future years.

BUT, I think it is imperative that the A-League be maintained as a strong competition with financial, geographical, market etc considerations being the driving force. The FFA does not want to dilute markets and end up having Adelaide or Melbourne with no A-League teams.

we already have Relegation based on the performance of KPis in the licence, it's how we got rid of GCU and won the
Palmer lawsuit

Promotion will probably happen sooner than people think depending on trial of the NPL spot in the FFA Cup

All the clubs - bar Phoenix have licenses until 2034.

The period between now and then will be the introduction of a second tier, with a combination of existing clubs and targeted areas that have the right financial backing (e.g. a Tasmanian team, or a Sunshine Coast team).

Promotion and relegation should be possible between the second tier and the Federations below. Promotion from this second tier will also be able be the feeder to expanding the HAL to 16-18 clubs.

Once the licenses expire then I would expect all bets to be off and promotion and relegation to be the norm. The clubs in the major markets of Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane would have been around for 30 years and will have no excuses if they are relegated.

3 years tops;)

Why does a second division HAVE to be national? I don't get it. You could combine states.

Australia's population is growing rapidly btw.

What if the winner of the NPL finals plays off against the wooden spooners from the a-league, winner gets the spot in the a-league ala bundesliga
1 in 1 out for a small competition is enough