Anything constructive to say?

read back through the thread. plenty of info contributed,
however reposting childish gifs, memes and videos of comedians isnt constructive
its merely reducing it to a schoolyard level of engagement

When marriage becomes a part of the state, discrimination is unacceptable. Either legalise gay marriage, or refrain from recognising any marriage and instead transition to civil unions.

Coming from the person whose argument was 'if you're defending gay rights you are gay'. :lol:

I've not seen any credible information presented only opinion.

you're putting words in my mouth. i never made such a statement

i suggested you might not have much idea what you're talking about given
a) you're not gay and
b) you havent personally visited any of the countries in the comedian's documentary about gays and
c) you dont even know what rights are

your whole concept of rights is screwball. gays are asking for privileges that arent afforded to those who are straight.
they have all the same rights as straight people, currently. simple concept.

all you and they want is to change the definition of a word which is currently based on biological facts.

why not change the definition of the various words describing genitalia while you're at it because its discriminatory that different genders should have different organs?

Your response to a comment of mine:







Speaking of putting words in mouths, give me a quote of when I said any of the above.

i deliberately made the first quote to get you to declare your position.
you're correct, you werent one to ask for the change to marriage definition, however you suggested gays lacked other rights attached to marriage
there are no rights attached to marriage, they are all privileges and they are primarily financial in nature.

as for the documentary and the other influences on your views (which you wont declare), ask yourself whether there might be some deliberate bias for an ulterior motivation by the producers of that information

What a load of bullshit! Especially the first line.

I've asked you to show give me quotes to support your arguments towards me and you just regurgitate more general lines to get yourself out of it. I've never said half of the things you're saying I have but yet you continue to spurt off about things that show your own ignorance.

And get over the documentary FFS all I ever said was it's an interesting watch.

Your point? I haven't given my opinion on any of the quotes you've given. All I've said was:
a) There was a massive debate about gay rights in Russia pre-Sochi.
b) There's a huge amount of information reported about gay rights (or lack thereof) around the world.
c) Legal definitions can and have changed over time.

In those quotes I've never advocated one thing or another or pushed my opinions on someone else.

you really are backpedaling now

How so?

Can anyone name 1 legitimate negative that would come by letting gay people get married?

it would slug the taxpayer millions in administrative costs to implement

I think the cost would be negligent when considering the benefit it would be to thousands of taxpayers

it wont benefit most taxpayers

Yeah, I don't know. To get married costs a fair bit of money. It would be tremendous for the economy.

Especially the extravagant gay weddings. ;)

i was referring to government administrative costs... which the taxpayer shall need to foot the bill for

They're asking to be able to have a marriage like straight couples. How is that privileges? Fail that, what is wrong with them having a civil union? They just want their relationship recognised like straight couples. There's no privilege to that.

The definition of the word is based on a religious belief.

Compared to other things its an insignificant cost. Is that the best argument you have?

Hey, hey. It costs money. Better not do things which cost money.

Fair enough and I'm not looking to have a go at you or anyone for that matter but I honestly can't fathom why so many agnostic or atheists out there have such a passionate hatred for religion, I get the hatred for lunatic fundamentalists, most average religious people despise that element too. But it's kind of infuriating seeing so many social media posts that feel the need to disprove peoples beliefs, I just can't fathom why religion bothers so many people to the point of becoming passionately anti theistic. Not saying that's you at all, but just venting tbh, I find the insensitivity of anti theism a bit of a pet hate.

I could understand people's distaste of religion stemming from the way in which it has been used to propagate intolerance by hate mongers, but imo homophobia is a societal problem that permeates all facets of our culture. Religion is clinged to as an excuse for many but when you strip the issue down it's an ingrained cultural intolerance that would still prosper without the presence of religion imo.

marriage is a privilege granted by the state, not a right. how many times must i repeat this...
its based on the union of members of the opposite gender who are capable in most instances of bearing children

gays are allowed to have civil unions with each other already.

gays can be granted the privilege to marry members of the opposite sex if this choose to, however many choose not to. it has nothing to do with rights.

why do they want their relationships recognised by the government like straight couples?
what is so important that the government provide its blessing in unholy matrimony?

what about ladies only gyms? should they be illegal based on discrimination?
what about gender defined toilets? should they be illegal based on discrimination?

You're right. Most religious people are good natured, warm hearted people who derive solace from their faith. And if that was ALL religion was, there wouldn't be a problem.

I'll let Bill Maher sum up my feeling.

[youtube]HyHhAoxTXKI[/youtube]

Bill Maher :oops:

The problem stems from the perception that religious moderates indulge in a la carte religion. i.e. they aren't sincere in their beliefs because they pick the good, and discard the bad.

It's not so much of a passionate hate, I don't go out of my way to hate them its too exhausting. I also only dislike the teachings and the moral rigidity. The people who adhere to these religions are judged case by case. Some people are intolerant loonies, others are normal people who believe in God.

I used to fit your militant atheist description pretty well but at the end of the day who really cares as long as religion doesn't affect me which it usually doesn't? I get the odd person try and convert me in public but that's about it.

As for the cultural homophobia I think Abrahamic religion created this deep rooted cultural intolerance for homosexuality. Before Christendom was prominent, many cultures tolerated homosexuality without sensationalising it in one way or another.

Gays are not permitted civil unions in Australia.

Not allowing gays to marry is as discriminatory as me refusing to employ a muslim due to his/her prayer requirements sighting it as a privilege. The same could be said of a smoker who wastes time each day smoking.

You're losing sight of the point here. They have ladies only gyms for women to be more comfortable, if you don't like it, find another gym. The toilet matter is for privacy. What idiotic arguments.

I want those people to be recognised because they're people like us straight people and they love who they love. They biologically can't change it so why do we prevent them having the same recognition?

It's important from a moral standpoint in that they are not seen as lesser citizens or lesser couples due to their sexual preference. F*ck me how is this difficult for you to understand?

There's no written rule that you devote yourself to the entirety of the subject and that goes for all walks of life, it's only the absolute extreme of the fundamentalists that take the literal word of the Bible in it's entirety.
Personally i went to a Catholic school where we were encouraged to accept the facets of the Catholic faith that appealed to us and to challenge those that don't, for example I still consider myself a part of the Catholic faith but I don't believe in a God and I'm not a homophobe. It's taking a very naive view of religion if you think everyone follows things blindly and are not 'sincere' if they don't challenge certain aspects.