I never supported the coalition of the willing, I do support the troops in Iraq now because they have been invited. On Est Timor, that was handled very well IMO, though the outcome favoured Australia.

Yes, the fact that these executions are so obviously motivated by politics rather than justice makes it stink so much worse than it already does.

Fucking armoured vehicles and fighter jets patrolling ahead for their transport to the island of their execution says it all.

10/10 post, especially the bolded.

If drugs were decriminalised in Australia or indeed globally and those affected by horribly addicting drugs like heroin were offered help by health programs instead of fear from police, none of this would have ever happened as there would be no market (inflated in value due to it's illegality) to serve, but as you say that doesn't sell copies of the Herald Sun.

No I see your argument as misinformed and ignorant but nonetheless you are entitled to it.

The reason why I called you a five year old, is after RC, Robbos & than myself pointed out a massive flaw in your argument, instead of actually defending your argument, you replied just like a five year old would. If you feel so strongly about respecting the sovereignty of the state, perhaps you should actually debate the issue when others make valid points.

I can only assume you reacted this way as it finally dawned on you, how ignorant your views actually are.

My point wasn't about discussing hypothetical's, it was in regards to the principle that just because a state makes the law does not mean its right.

Now I agree that countries should have the authority to make their own laws, however when it comes to the death penalty (regardless of the crime) no state across the world should be able to carry out executions.

It has been shown time and time again that the death penalty is a pointless exercise and achieves nothing.

Edited by Roar_Brisbane: 30/4/2015 01:02:24 AM

No one is disputing Indonesia's authority, of course they have the right to exact the death penalty where they see fit.

However, this doesn't make it morally or ethically justifiable. Just because it is enshrined in law doesn't make it right.

The hallmark of a society is it's justice system, and Indonesia has proved that it is a barbaric and backward country that still believes in overzealous punishment that does not work.

Make no mistake, Jokowi doesn't give a shit about the impact that drugs have. Why would he have granted clemency to the two murderers then?

No, Jokowi has to appear "strong" to the blood-thirsty dumb island peasants that constitute the majority of his country.

Edited by 433: 30/4/2015 12:06:04 AM

just because i disagree with you and respect the sovreignty of the state yet i come across as a five year old. hmm ok :roll:

im not the one talking in hindsight about what i would have done during the holocaust.
like i said if you think you are that pragmatic to make a difference go take up politics.

you speak like an academic who is camped inside his office detailing his perfect plan on how to save the world.

the world is not black and white so you need to go outside and smell the roses.

Edited by Socawho: 29/4/2015 11:21:29 PM

Edited by Socawho: 29/4/2015 11:25:29 PM

Indeed, he's really coming across as a five year old now.

What a shit response.

oright einstein if you want to do something about it then go into politics or even better go work for the UN

Well this is exactly right. Crackers touched on aspects above and you've knocked it out of the park.

If only I lived in the black and white parallel universe these blokes inhabit.

Between Socawho, BrisbaneBhoy & yourself, you lot have posted some extremely ignorant posts.

Just because a state makes the law does not mean its right.

I assume you guys would've sat on your hands and watched The Holocaust unfold and sprout similar garbage, because hey it was the law. :roll:

[youtube]Q1eLLNQzOMU?t=17m4s[/youtube]

yes you are right morally but in terms of the state they are the ones who decide what is right and wrong.
i could also argue that mcdonalds and kfc are bad because they people fat and obese. theres a million ways of looking at it. but this is in an environment where some of the bali 9 were forced against their will to cooperate....which is basically extortion

Spot on.

do you support Australia's intervention in Iraq? or the continued intervention in Afghanistan?
what about the earlier intervention in East Timor?

any of the above?

This is not a left or right issue. It's an issue with authoritarianism.

I don't agree with capital punishment. One reason is because of the possibility of innocence, another is where do we have the right to murder someone, the list goes on, though I could be swayed by child sex offenders and Jihadist .

Having said that, For drug traffickers the law in Indonesia is clear, its the death penalty, those two got given that penalty by a court of law in that country and exhausted every legal avenue in an attempt to have it overturned.

Doesn't matter if we agree or not, it's their law and their country, its none of our business how they structure their laws nor do we have the right to demand they change them or show leniency just because we don't like it.

Further more , I believe the Abbott ( wish Costello was still there) Government are only making matters worse by recalling our Ambassador, whats the point, there is none and no benefit will come of it. we are the ones in the wrong here not them. We tell people who come here, live by our laws or leave, same goes for them.

/rant

Cigarettes & alcohol are both legalised & many people die of cigarettes & alcohol related issues everyday, who do we blame there the government or the people who put those things into their bodies?

It is illegal for women to watch football in some countries, who is wrong the women or the law?

I've seen a fair few people calling them "heroic in their final days" and that we could learn from their behaviour, but that just might be looking at different outlets

I do agree that an eye for an eye is rubbish, but this case has been given too much airtime in the media and attention on social media when there are actual tragedies happening in the world that are not getting the attention they deserve

Yes and I am not one. I dont condone what they did but state sanction is still murder. I have my reasons why I dont agree with it and I wont go into detail as ive posted about numeorus times. An eye for an eye doesnt fix anything

do u know what a leftie is?

I dont think anyone is putting them on a pedestal. I think people are angry for the fact these two men were changed men . Under the last president he communted a lot of death sentences due to the fact he knew it didnt deter anything.

Wouldn't have been such a big issue if they had been executed when they were caught 10 years ago

The way people are putting the two of them on pedestals is disgraceful

too late now regardless. Compensation won't mean much to these 9 families.

I despise the term leftie. I dont consider myself one and I abhor the death penalty.A eye for an eye doesnt help anyone and the drug problem in indonesia will get worse. The whole execution was wododo saying to australia I am not a pushover.

people quickly forget that these 2 were ringleaders of drug peddling and coerced the others into drug muling by threats to their families. i agree death penalty is harsh but Lefties make out like they were angels

choke-o widildo

and that one, ladies and gents, earns me the rest of the day off.

Absolutely. I could be wrong, but I believe Switzerland also has a program similar to that of Portugal.

there's more money to be made by keeping drugs illegal
they're a major component of the economy such that a few EU countries even include it in their fiscal reporting now

Portugal is a great example of how a managed decriminalisation of drugs can lead to far better outcomes for society than costly legal processes and/or capital punishment/imprisonment under criminal law. This coupled with shifting the problem from the Justice System to the Ministry of Health as well as raising the overall welfare systems are proven tools for tackling drug problems.

However, it takes a leader and government with a lot of foresight to be able to implement such a solution.