Yeah that's only talking about Adlers lol.

Nothing to do with other firearms with capacity greater than 5.

Which I say again, the logical is retarded.

All this to take of two whole rounds out of the chamber lol.

-PB

"That is likely to trigger calls for a taxpayer-funded national buyback of thousands of retrofitted Adler shotguns already in the country that will be rendered illegal if they have a magazine capacity of more than five."

And yet if this manages to pass, there will still be firearms capable of doing exactly that still in Category A.

Thus all this mountains out of molehills would have achieved nothing in the greater scheme.

-PB

Learn to read.

From the previous page I wrote.  

"Restricting 7000 pre-ordered shotguns with an ability to shoot 8 rounds in 8 seconds that were to be sold to gun owners holding the least restrictive and easiest available class of gun license is a good thing."

Moving the goal posts, are we?

That a 8 shot shotgun should be available to Cat A shooters.

What was then?

-PB

That was never the argument.

Only for a 7 shot version lol

5 shot will remain in an easy catergory.

-PB

Common sense prevails.

Seems the Adler may be a Cat D weapon after all.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/nsw-premier-mike-bairds-decision-to-remove-his-police-minister-proves-gamechanger-in-national-adler-debate/news-story/1d1735e8a7d1031d77db2176bdd78eec?nk=e238c1fed4637db2ec13390c0e0dd12c-1480854919

AUSTRALIA’S import ban on the lever-action Adler A110 shotgun can be lifted next year with a national agreement on a new D licence, limiting it to a handful of professional shooters.

The deal will act as a de facto ban, with the gun only able to be imported and owned by limited to a tiny number of professional shooters who specialise in pest and feral animal control on a D licence.

Adler ban lifted thanks to a 5 shot capacity change (lol limiters).

Common sense prevails.

-PB

The sad thing is that the gun debate in the USA isn't actually as polarised as is presented. A vast majority of americans support things like background checks etc.

It is the NRA that prevents any of this happening through lobbying. The problem is that voter turnout is low in the primaries, so only those most passionate (eg "fundamentalist") in outlook bother voting.

So you don't get policies for the centre, you get them for the extremes that vote. Hence why I am glad we have compulsory voting.

Yeah he gave it his best shot but what can you do with all those gun toting redneck republicans blocking progress.

Thanks for linking.

I found this page defining a 'mass shooting' very interesting. http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Main_Page

I honestly believe he gave it his best shot - but he's outgunned (sorry) in the senate and wouldn't have had a chance of getting any legislation through. Once kiddies are being shot in their classes and the public STILL doesn't get behind a cause, you know a country is f*cked.

With regard to licensed gun ownership - I'm with Jim Jeffries. It's a lovely thought that the responsible members of society should be allowed to keep their weapons - but society is messed up and we have to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator, which is pretty f*cking low.

At least you all agree someone should be banned.
The question is who :)

TheSelectFew should be banned from this forum. Too often he is allowed to post hateful, vitriolic, disdainful, sarcastic and just plain venomous posts. Always playing the man and rarely the ball.

Although I'm doubtful, feel free to jump in if you think you can add anything of substance.

Wait, what?

I though the problem was illegally imported weapons?



Anyway you'll only have to wait a year before your Bundy rum pigging mates can own one because Tone's jumped into bed with Leyonhjelm and done a slimy deal to get his immigration policies through.

The same Tone that promised not to do deals with cross-benchers before he was elected.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-13/adler-shotgun-importation-ban-to-be-lifted-after-leyonhjelm-deal/6694586






Edited by munrubenmuz: 1/9/2015 10:55:05 PM

It's obvious that you think, despite facts and evidence to the contrary, 7000 rapid fire weapons should be available to gun owners in possession of the least restrictive and easily available category of gun license.

You know that license you get when you do the $100 course that takes 6 hours with the 3 breaks for smoko, lunch and then smoko in between and the multiple choice test you have to take that you can study for before by asking them for the booklet. That test do you mean?

We differ on what we believe to be fair and reasonable. Fine.



I spent years in the Territory and North Qld. I've been shooting many times with clowns/mates exactly like that.

Whilst a slight exaggeration on the ute front it's not far from the truth as you would well know. Fuck mate drive out to Charters Towers and have a look around. Every 2nd car is like that. (No, it's not a crime to have a ute like that.)

As for your assertion that the Adler is not a Cat D weapon you would know that the only reason it was going to be allowed to be imported was that although it held more than 5 rounds, making it a Cat D, it was a lever action which was not covered by the Cat D status.

Fortunately someone was paying attention.

You'd also know that the government is looking to close that loophole, possibly retrospectively, which should be fun for all the lads that would then be in possession of a weapon they don't have a license for.

As for semi-auto's of course they're still available and you can own them but they're strictly controlled and if you're a Cat A license holder you can go nowhere near them. (Like I said, not having the appropriate license, I had to hand mine back.)




Yes I do.

Because he'd be murdered

Thanks for getting this back on topic.

Is pretty crazy when you look at the date gaps for some of those.

They really need to reel that shit in.

I'm still honestly surprised Obama didn't go harder on gun control, specially once he won his second term.

-PB

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

if there is something to point out

This is a unique situation involving the individuals, where they all knew each other. The danger with the gun only involved those in the story?

GRANTED if there was no gun they would all still be here, but STILL...

Manrubz should be banned from this forum. Too often is he allowed to post about things he obviously knows nothing about.

I'm not. You are the one who won't answer the question about having a weapons license or doing any of the said courses. For someone who goes on about people using anecdotal evidence in debates you sure are coming across as quite the hyprocrite.



Cat D as per the legistlation that you linked;

Category D weapons

(1) Each of the following is a category D weapon—

a) a self-loading centre fire rifle designed or adapted for military purposes or a firearm that substantially duplicates a rifle of that type in design, function or appearance;
b) a non-military style self-loading centre fire rifle with either an integral or detachable magazine;
c) a self-loading shotgun with either an integral or detachable magazine with a capacity of more than 5 rounds and a pump action shotgun with a capacity of more than 5 rounds;
d) a self-loading rimfire rifle with a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds.

(2) Subsection (1) applies to a weapon mentioned in the subsection even if the weapon is permanently inoperable.

The Adler is none of those things, nor is round capacity mentioned for lever actions, only pump actions. It is a lever action centrefire shotgun, and as such it was put in the same catergory as lever action rifles (Catergory B).

The reason for the 12 month suspension of the rifle was actually stated by Catherine Smith (Assistant Secretary to Hon Michael Keenan MP) in an email to me just yesterday actually;

The Government is conscious that the regulation of firearms is of great interest to many members of the Australian community. For this reason, in addition to incorporating advice from all federal and state law enforcement and justice agencies, the review of the NFA will also involve consultation with the firearms community (industry, recreational groups and licensed shooters) and community safety organisations in order to produce sensible, practical
changes where required. As part of that consultation process, on 12 August 2015, the Government announced the establishment of an Industry Reference Group to provide advice to Government and the Firearms and Weapons Policy Working Group (FWPWG) – which comprises representatives of all Australian Governments – on any updates to the technical elements of the NFA.

Minister Keenan will chair the Industry Reference Group and will meet with members in the lead up to first ministers considering any proposed update to the NFA at the first COAG meeting of 2016.

The Adler block was more about the upcoming look at the NFA as a result of the outcomes of the Sydney Siege Enquiry.





Once again with the anecdotal evidence. Also, a very large percentage of Adler imports were from hunters and skeet/trap competition shooters according to the correspondance sent out by the importer Robert Noia, so yes they were "enthusiasts" as you so sarcastitcally put.





The Police (in QLD at least) follow their guidelines just well, doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement for more work to be under taken to find the non law abiding holders of firearms or to crack down further on gun related crime. I can't speak for other states.





But you can own them now, provided you have a license to do so. It's not like SKS, AK-47s, AR-15s, M14s and the like just don't exist in this country anymore, they still do and in large number no less. Go fo a walk to Cleaver Firearms (I assume you live in Brisbane) and have a look. Also it is commonly known the reason why semi-automatic rifles were a huge part of the ban/reclassification/buyback is because one was used at Port Arthur. Had he used a lever-action shotgun like the Adler you can bet your bottom dollar it would have been restricted just as tightly. Pump action shotguns were also reclassified at the time as they were seen as the single biggest threat against law enforcement officers (based off USA related data at the time, also before the changes in body armour/kevlar changes that are available today).

New Zealand doesn't have as tight classification of firearms as Australia does (can own semi-autos more easily, can buy supressors for firearms, can use Airsoft [which funnily enough Australia is one of very few countries in the world where it is illegal]) and yet they have far less issues that we have now but similar firearm ownership per capita as Australia.





Congratulations, you plugged "Stolen", "Firearms" and "News" into Google and took the first handful of easy to get results however that doesn't align with the data realised by the Institute of Criminology's National Firearm Theft Monitoring Program where the amount of firearms from year to year was on a decline while firearm ownership was increasing.

While it is incredibly hard to source any data on just how many illegal firearms are in circulation, it can be seen that legitimate firearms account for very little of that market (based off reported thefts, although this doesn't cover thefts that weren't reported as the firearm was illegal in the first place, making the owner not a law abiding firearm owner - the whole side of this debate).

The Australian Crime Commission (ACC) estimates there are more than 260,000 firearms in the illicit market — 250,000 long-arms and 10,000 handguns.

According to the ACC website, most of those guns have been diverted from the legal market through a variety of means.

"The grey market consists of all long-arms that were not registered, or surrendered as required during the gun buybacks, following the National Firearms Agreement (1996)," the website said.

"Illicit handguns have principally been sourced by criminals who took advantage of differences in state and territory definitions of firearms and other loopholes which have been closed for more than a decade.





The guns would end up in the hands of criminals, just like any other stolen goods. Your analogy of the schooner glass would also be correct, however what you are implying should happen (and directly due to your Adler comments) is that it isn't about the glass it all, it should be a complete ban on alcohol altogether.





Then should we not be restricting them as well? Why can I go into my local sporting good store and buy a compound bow with optics that can hit a 50c piece @ 100 metres without the need of any license or background checks?





So you want to restrict the choice of purchase of consumers? To limit what people can choose of one brand over another? Sorry you can't have this car that has more features and a better price point, you HAVE to buy these other crappier cars with less features and is more expensive.





And this is where you break your side of things down and start with the attacks and generilizations (singalling out North Queensland residents) which just throws your whole debate out the window.

Would also like to see where/when one of these types of hunters had committed a crime with their firearms, if you could produce some form of statistical data that links stickers on a car, a radio, some anttenas and mud flaps equalling gun related crime I'd be happy to see it.

Try not to be anecdotal now, wouldn't want you to be perceived as a fuckwit.

-PB

Gun registration actually contributes to likelihood of premises being targeted by criminal groups who are able to obtain such information by insiders in the police force

PaulbagzFC out of his depth and "resulting" to personal insults.

Crumpeted!

Keep patting yourself on the back champion. I haven't called you any names or "resulted" to "personal insults". I'll leave that to you and your ilk.

I've simply said you're talking bullshit and I've proved it.

If you'd like to refute any of my 2 previous posts then go ahead. But if you continue to distort (or lie some would say) then expect to be called out.




Edited by munrubenmuz: 31/8/2015 05:29:26 PM

So you have a gun license then? :lol:

You've applied for one and done said course? :lol:

-PB

Manrub out of his depth and resulting to personal insults :lol:

Toasted.

-PB

And stop telling everybody who hasn't a clue how "unbelievably hard" it is to get a gun license. More bullshit.

Fill in a few forms, get someone to say you're allowed to shoot on their property, do a 6 hour ($100) course and you sir are a licensed shooter.

As for secure storage. Well a heavy wooden box with a padlock will do very nicely thanks very much.