Calling kids retards is not ideal but not telling them straight out in frank and brutal terms what is going wrong is bullshit too.  (And to be fair he said 'they were playing like retards' not they are 'retards'.)

Do these kids want to be professional footballers and get better or do they want to wallow in mediocrity and their 'safe spaces'?

All this namby pamby rubbish is friggin ridiculous.  No wonder we're getting shit results if this is the attitude of those in the know (coaches) and their parents.

If a kid fucks up he needs to be told he's fucked up. If a kid reads a soccer forum and someone is criticising his performance and he gets upset well that's stiff shit.  

Are you blokes for real?  No critical commentary can be made in case little Johnny or little Johnny's dad reads the internet.  Far out.

Where's Benda Parma and Quickflick FFS?

IMO just based on my experience these selections were pretty much made in February this year. There was some kids who declined the COE offered even after the coaches essentially told them they were giving up the chance to play nationally ... I assume that's because for the past 6 months, the coaches have been working day to day tactically and technically with these 15 COE boys. Countries like Japan and India spent the past 2-3 months in Europe playing teams like France, Germany (also winning them) etc as their preparation so im assuming the coaches believe if we were to just assemble our best 23 kids in two weeks it would probably be a cohesion disaster. but with hindsight now ...

to me the structure and style is ridiculous. the amount of offsides and missed through balls we not only had last night but all the other match is crazy and whats worse is the coaches havent done anything to fix that. our second sub should have been seen us put some fresh legs up front once they saw Brook was putting through some decent balls and our forwards were essentially gutted mentally and physically - its not like we didnt have attacking legs, we had Italiano (who went on the 80th min), Muratovic, Najjarine, Selden etc. 

up until this point i've valued Vidmar but now i've got some serious questions and concerns.

I was also a little suprised that the aff performances seemed to be weaker than the year before despite aging a year
I didn't keep track of whether they were the same players or not. What I saw of last years aff definitely was a good look for the ntc. Going backwards in a year is a bad look for the coe!

Abrams has devolved programs from COE centres to clubs.


At this point in time, FFA  state TDs now have to go out and  plan with NPL  TDs what they are doing. The idea that the national, holistic,approach,  that exists in Euro powerhouses, will be disseminated far more widely at club level. The access to senior pro players and coaches is seen as beneficial in the development of young players at HAL clubs.

Also, it is perceived that pathways from under 10s right up to senior pro level is available  in a pro HAL club setting.

13 out of the 23 were from the year before. 

i was discussing it this morning  with family and i could  been completely wrong in my judgement and my expectations because my sad feelings are involved but last night highlighted to me that a whole bunch of our COE kids havent improved as footballers as much as i assumed would happen when my family decided it would be the better option for our lad to move. many of the issues that i saw in our first match against tuggerarong are still there. 

Interesting  insights.

I'm not sure who was in  Vidmar's last under 16 team a month or two ago, and this one, but in  the last mini tournament they won  they started slowly and  improved as the tournament progressed.

I've coached at rep level a few tiers below yours with teenage boys.

They develop in troughs and plateaus.

They are all different too. What occurs with one is different from another.

Given the fickle nature of pro football , an education is far more important for most players. Particularly with the risk of  a career  ending injury  from just one event .

I agree and am encouraging my boy to get an ATAR although its promoted football should be their main focus. 

i dont doubt all of them have developed - some definitely more than others.

i do agree with your points on the development cycle however for me someone who watches their matches each week and hears the coaches say do this, you're meant to be here, play it safe, don't do this etc. and see the same decisions, errors, turnovers made from the beginning and to still see those issues prominent is slightly disappointing. but as i said am pretty gutted right now so my judgment probably isnt rational. 

the deeper i evaluate the more questions i have. best to not think at all LOL!!! 

I apologise for my poor choice of words earlier in this thread and I am sorry if I have offended anyone. It was unintended.

Kyrgyzstan 0-8 Japan

Stick to your guns.

If they're playing shit, it's ok to say they're playing shit.

I mean have a go at that first goal they conceded.  Under 12's wouldn't have been ball watching like that, leaving 3 unmarked men in the box.  Just woeful.

A poster above, a parent I assume, said it's frustrating watching them make the same errors over and over and not listening.  I wonder what the punishment for failure is?  A hearty 'chin up pal' or threatened with losing your position in the team.  You'd hope it's the latter if these are close to the 'cream of the crop' otherwise nothing will improve.

If players can't follow simple instructions then the axe has to drop eventually.  Carrot and stick.  Sometimes more stick than carrot.  All this blaming of the coaches is whitewashing over the fact that some of these kids show very poor technique and, according to the above, can't follow instructions.

Fair play to you, mate.

Many of us wouldn't be enjoying  these  games and  streams  of Oz underage football if it wasn't for your efforts setting this thread up. Many on this forum appreciate your efforts setting this  thread up, as well as the Aussie national team thread.

Thyey've  created a lot of interesting football discussion.

I always stick to my guns but I concede it was the wrong word to use. Parents get far too emotional when they realise their kid isn't going to be Messi or Ronaldo. Even when they are not going to be the next Einstein or Franklin.

Nevertheless, they did play like shit but how I see it, it was tactics. Threw balls that were played unnecessarily, lobbing straight to the forward, yet again, who was marked by three players, passes to the touchline/behind the target/straight to the opposition.

One of the key issues with the NC is that it is applying a "cookie cutter" approach for developing young players suited to the 4-3-3 system the Socceroos are meant to be playing. Issue with this is that we are predictable in how we play and when teams employ tactics to counter us, high press & cutting off passing lanes we don't have a plan B as we only want to play "our style". 

In the 2 Socceroo games against Greece,in Aus earlier this year, we won the first playing 433 & possesion (as per NC) & then lost the second as the Greek coach figured us out and played the high press, cutting off passing lanes and hitting us on the counter. Interestingly Ange didnt employ the 433 for our game against UAE as he is also realizing that we need to be more flexible tactically. I didn't see the U16 games but from some of the comments I've read this appears to have happened to them also. 

I am a fan of many parts of the NC as it does give everyone a common basis from which to teach kids, but I don't like the fascination with the 433 formation only and believe kids should be exposed to all current systems and taught to play to the game situation (football problem solving) not just focus on one style. 

At senior level in Australia there is no mandated playing formation.

In development, youth, are expected to play 1-4-3-3 by FFA because it is considered a useful development formation. If one is familiar with the 1-4-3-3,  and its variations, the theory is that it is far easier to adapt to a flat midfield  4-4-2 than the opposite.

thanks for your insights

So can you tell me do most players go through the national curriculum before going to the COE?
How long are they at the COE before these tournaments?
The technical quality of youth coming through a league ranks is improving and that is very encouraging
What Decentric said about development not being linear is a fair point, still it looks like the group as a cohort has gone technically backwards in 12 months which is surprising to me
Clearly the improvement all round of technical quality in australia means something is going right in Australian football

but seeing these players this year and last year does mean questions need to be asked

Long , switch of play diagonal balls are considered very different from  hoofing it up into the mixer.

I noted a few long straight, high balls down the wings against Thailand though.

In a scenario where there is a clearance under pressure/ last ditch resort defending, getting  rid of it anywhere is acceptable for FFA.

I am with you to a degreee....but I swear that the bench in BOTH games was where the firepower was and that is a different team. Also those boys -Rami aside- play together week in week out! ! It was incredible that Mirza, Italiano, Selden, Obst, Najjiarine, Brook, etc. hardly made it off the bench! it was absolutely absurd and Vidmar should be hauled over the coals for it! To be honest I will be surprised if he keeps his job as a KPI of getting the team to the world cup would have been priority 1, and it didn't happen! Who will review him, does anyone know?
The full attacking firepower available should have been unleashed for the first game to secure the win, but no.... and then he didn't even let those boys play in the second (brook halftime) so did he really expect to get through....or try!!?? Of course he tried, but via the most painful and un-trodden path he could find it seems-!
If he plays a very different and strong team against Japan, and they do well (not win, but even keeping a low score compared to Vietnam and Kyrgstan!) which is likely as they are all so pissed off, he will then look like a total dickhead. In actual fact I doubt he will risk that happening and wont have the balls to let the dogs loose!

I get what you are saying I think , is there a pro AIS / NTC lobby ?
Surely not , results matter to coaches too otherwise they will be out on their arse?

Just to clarify, I'm certainly not saying he tried to lose, why would he?! I'm just stating the facts that -arguably- SOME of the strongest and most attacking players had no influence at all, and the entire group is being slated.
I agree from the outside that it looked shocking, and many impressions are rightly formed off these performances, but you put that bench on together .... totally different team, and I don't understand that...!
But i'm not a coach I suppose and I'm sure his reasons MUST make sense, to those on planet Zerrbanjo or some other Football meca!

No it wasn't directional switches. These were straight down to Roberts. 

I didn't see the match.

On the matter of calling people retards... I realise it's not deliberately meant to offend people who are intellectually handicapped. But it would probably be hurtful to them and that's what matters, imo. I've been as guilty as anybody of calling people retards. But the more I go through life, though, the more I take a step back and question my actions in the past. I think if I had a sibling with DS and I encountered others calling people retards, I would not be best pleased.

I'm not having a go at you TheSelectFew. I've said the exact same so many times. And you're one of my favourite posters. It's only now that I try to look at things through different lenses that I try not to use words like retard or gay in a pejorative way (even though I was the biggest culprit not long ago). But most people will say I'm being overly sensitive and won't have any issue about using the word retard. We all go about things differently.

Top post. However critical we may be, we're massively proud of the fellas. It's wonderful that they're representing their country in football. It's going to be a journey with its ups and downs. But we appreciate what they're doing.

Cheers blud. I have apologised for the use of that word. Should have used a better adjective. Can see how it was misinterpreted but no excuse on my end. 

Not to go on about this too much but again, he didn't call anyone a retard.

South Park did almost a whole episode on the use of 'retarded' last season.  (Timmy (the disabled character) being the defender of the word, PC Principal objecting vociferously).  It's great viewing and as usual the South Park blokes nail it, and crucify the language police at the same time.

As for you not seeing the match my comment wasn't about the match it was about the 'safe spaces' some people think should exist for wannabe professional footballers.  That was my objection.

What is going on?

I'd just like to throw my two cents worth in here, but recently, I'm sure many of you are acquainted with 'A-League memes' on Facebook, (hoping no one is an admin of that page on here) but the other day regarding Melbourne City's 4-0 loss to Newcastle. The post (piss-take) basically connoted prior to the match the line up of city being a mixture of experience and youth whilst Post match the City twitter page said that their youthful squad was humbled by a full strength Jets squad. covering up the disappointing result with lack of experience.

As a result the keyboard warriors, 'A league memes' came alive bagging out Melbourne City (and basically their youth team), obviously the admins being so deluded in their apparent humour, don't fucking realise that half the kids that were playing that day were under 20 and most likely follow/like if not know about the page. So my question is. Do you think kids read into this and take it personally, I mean they can either strive for more success or completely give up due to the backlash they receive. but I feel fuckin annoyed when us Australians take the piss out of their own youth structures (youth teams) when the meme pages supposedly have a passion for covering the game as a whole.

Obviously I realise it is a memes page but come on, know when its suitable to do so and know when it isn't. And just because I'm a city fan I would've been pissed if it was any other club as it just degrades the development of the game as a whole.

Sorry. just an issue I thought apparent to youth development. Media.

A discussion regards the language police.

But we are losing to Laos ffs. 

Yeah there's that too.

Just make sure when it all goes tits up everyone gets a pat on the back and told 'it's all OK, results don't matter'.

Yeah I hate that crap. 

Did well for the first five minutes now we just turn it over.