Plenty of existing Macca's sites up for sale now (Central Coast, Newcastle, Adelaide, Perth .... I think they are still trying to flog off shares in Melbourne but nobody wants them) ) , maybe they should concentrate on selling those before trying to expand their geographical sales market footprint.

Pizza Hut v Sizzler was bigger than AU v MV will ever be

The writing (and the food) was on the wall for Sizzler when ratbags liked me realised "all you can eat" also meant "all you can food fight"

From memory, I think I gave the manager of Sizzler on Glenn Osmond Rd a bit of a headache back in the day, I almost feel bad about it come to think of it

Danny Townsend on The Global Game has said the following:

APL is committed to expanding the A-Leagues Women's Competition next year.

APL will NOT expand the A-League Mens competition until all the current clubs are financially stable 

Wait,  what ?

So    they    can't   be   financially   stable   with     $130M??

I guess it makes sense that if you have 12 clubs chasing less broadcast and sponsorship revenue than what was available to 10 clubs, say, 7 years ago, then it might become difficult to justify extra clubs.
Although, having said that, to wait until all current clubs are financially stable might be a lifelong wait.

No   excuse   for   not   getting    more    now   than   7   years  ago.  Sheesh.

If you add the APL and FFA deals with Paramount together, it is actually more per season than the old Fox Sports deal. Which is impressive given the situation with Covid (all other codes took a hit with re-signed deals worth less than their previous ones).

There is a strange paradox to A-League expansion. Look at the clubs which were thrown together on an improvised basis due to urgent short-term need:

Adelaide Utd 03/04 (this was in the last season of the NSL, but they were widely seen as an A-League club in waiting)
Wellington Phoenix 07/08
Western Sydney Wanderers 12/13

All of them can be considered successes, managing to implant themselves in their communities, win over decently sized fanbases and guarantee themselves long-term stability.

Then look at the expansion clubs which were included at the end of a supposed process of careful, strategic long-term planning:

North Queensland Fury 09/10
Gold Coast 09/10
Melbourne Heart/City 10/11
Western United 19/20
Macarthur 20/21

Two clubs folded within a couple of years, two have singularly failed to draw decent attendances despite good teams on the park, and one has struggled for support despite the infinite wealth of its owners.

So we invariably end up with much better results when they pull something out of their arse at the last minute.

So   there's   no   excuse   for   not   expanding   the   number  of   teams   then.

All indications are they will be expanding in the next few years, initially to 14 then 16.

uh  huh ,  " in   the   next   few    years" ...

"All indications" --- ??

I'd say all indications are that the entire competition is in the toilet in terms of ratings, crowds and competition revenue.

Given how our 2 recent expansion teams are going, I'd be pretty worried about new clubs.

I think the issue with is expansion is "where to next?" Sure, Canberra will be team 13. But there are no obvious standouts for team, 14, 15 and 16. 

really don't get where df1982 sees all the spin and vision from........
All Clubs one day being financial ? dreaming ?! what professional sporting competition in the world has all clubs/teams financially viable ?!
Nix successful ? seriously.
Bulls ? 1 season considered successful, seriously talk about chicken before the egg.

The we have WU yet he quoted :
"Two clubs folded within a couple of years, two have singularly failed to draw decent attendances despite good teams on the park, and one has struggled for support despite the infinite wealth of its owners."

Fury/GC had just as the above.
Bulls/Nix/WU hardly pull a crowd - Nix pulls one over there but not here over the seasons depending the opponent.

You can only expand when you have "growth" and your product is dragging in bums on seats, thats smart business, not when your struggling, lacking good media exposure without a vibrant competition.

Expanding intent is great but not whilst your product isn't delivering, throwing in 1 more new Club in say 2yrs for eg won't straighten the ship till the foundations are solid.
All a new Club does is deliver click bait in the short term, especially when it has NO base core support.

In my ALs: Post Covid edition 
WU:  After burning all bridges in Victoria moves west to Joondalup (sure they move into another oval but it can't be worse than Geelong or Mars Stadium that they have used in the past )
Roar: returns South but this time to QSAC
Bulls amalgamate Rams, Tigers (wests or Camden you decide?)
Canberra United, Adelaide City, Gold Coast United and Auckland City sounded out for expansion so everyone gets a derby except Canberra because FUCK that place in particular

Pick any three from Gold Coast, Auckland, Wollongong and Tasmania. They all have the population to sustain an A-League level club (i.e. they have a population base at least equal to that of Wellington or Central Coast, who have each managed to remain in the league for 15+ years).

I think we have to get away from this idea that the A-League should entirely consist of clubs that can all equally make a bid for the title. It's already not reality and we should accept that the league will have big clubs (the big Sydney and Melbourne sides), mid-tier clubs (the likes of Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide), and smaller clubs. Introducing pro-rel over time would give the smaller clubs something concrete to play for.

I guess the other way to look at it is the only way is up at this point, and expansion can be part of that. There is certainly no shortage of willing investors: Newcastle is finally getting a buyer, Adelaide is apparently going to sell for $15-20m, then there's the Silver Lake investment.

The problem with the last expansion round was it was fundamentally ill-conceived by the old FFA administration: Gallop and Foxtel wanted to "fish where the fish are" without seeming to understand that adding extra teams in Sydney and Melbourne would only dilute the support. Accepting WU under false pretenses was also basically "take the money and run". Townsend has been implicitly critical of that process, and I think it's guaranteed subsequent expansion rounds will target unserved areas.

Honestly I think the Roar should move to Perry Park and install temporary seating on the southern and eastern sides of the ground. Together with the existing western grandstand and standing room at the northern end you could probably squeeze around 10k fans into it, and given the central, accessible location of the ground they would probably get a lot more than they do at Redcliffe. It would also hopefully send a message as to just how desperate their stadium situation is.

OK, so where are the consortiums bidding from these regions? 

Gold Coast has failed in the past and has a terrible history for local sports teams.

Auckland has also failed in the past. Honestly, I don’t support a second NZ team, but I think the possibilities in Australia are that thin, we might be left with no choice. Or we could look at SE Asia (ie. Singapore).

Wollongong just doesn’t have the financial backing (plus we already have enough teams from NSW).

Tasmania I support, but I think the horse has bolted with the prospect of a new AFL team (to be decided later this year), and new AFL stadium. Methinks they will need a privately built stadium, because there will be no government funding once they have committed to the AFL stadium.

Yeah if only there was a way to naturally expand the A-League. Maybe some sort of promotion system through a feeder competition of some sort?

Is that the sort of thing that works overseas?

I think Wollongong is much more viable than most of the recent expansion teams added. Yes there are lots of teams in NSW  but to be honest that is where the people are. It doesn't help that the most recent club added is a basket case.

Tasmania would be great, there was a push for a new venue the other day I saw?  Although that was tied to trying to convince Victoria to share a Commonwealth Games bid.

Gold Coast was hit with the Clive Palmer curse. They may have been viable otherwise.

TBH - Wollongong and Canberra are the most viable. Decent grounds in place, would be better supported than several existing clubs. The problem is that those communities got sick of being stuffed around in previous expansion rounds when they should've been admitted. The goodwill and money has been lost.

In the last expansion round there were something like 10-12 serious expansion bids, including from most of the areas mentioned. If the APL embarks on a new expansion (now probably more attractive because it now has total control over the A-Leagues), then you would likely find similar levels of interest.

Gold Coast has had an American investor and owner of Helsingborg interested (although he has also been mentioned as a potential buyer for Newcastle). There were also rumours about a Red Bull bid a few years, which would honestly be a good fit for the area. A stadium is already there that can be used.

Auckland has 1.7m people and is the financial capital of New Zealand, so it is actually the most promising area for a new team out of any of them.

Wollongong has an existing team and a perfect existing stadium. It could probably be managed on a shoestring without sustaining too many losses, so doesn't need a massive investor, ideally a group of local businessmen would hold the purse strings. I imagine fans would flock to their first football team of any code playing full-time in the region for 20 years.

Tasmania has investors and govt support, its problem is the lack of stadium. If the AFL turns them down though the government and its backers might look to the A-League instead. How a state of 500k people with a sluggish economy can really propose to spend $750m on an AFL stadium that would be barely bigger than their existing two grounds is a mystery to me. In any case I don't really see how the AFL goes to a 19-team league, and there's little prospect of an existing team moving there full-time.

SE Asia is likely a non-starter since FIFA and the AFC probably won't allow it. There would be huge issues with travel too.

Wollongong proved during the last bidding process they were not viable. They were rumoured to have bid $5 million, compared to Western United’s $19 million. Some might argue that money shouldn’t be the deciding factor… which is a fair stance to make. But for a league that is cash poor, it becomes the deciding factor, whether you agree with it or not.

I definitely support Wollonging being part of the NSD. It will give them the chance to prove they are viable to take the next step. But they don't a deserve a direct ALM licence.

There has been no push for a football stadium in Hobart as far as I know. There was talk about building a stadium in Cornelian Bay a few years ago, but that talk has since died. From a personal POV, I want a team in Hobart because I have mates who lives there and i enjoy visting. But it still needs to be viable and they need a football specific stadium. stadium

Name a sports team in a national league that has succeeded on the Gold Coast?  But again i would support them being part of the NSD and give them the opportunity to prove their viability. 



Most of the 10-12 serious bids were Melbourne and Sydney based though. I think most of us agree that there should be no more expansion teams from VIC and NSW (excluding South Melbourne bitters, who will eventually get their chance via the NSD).

The AFL won’t turn down the Tassie. They are 100% certainties to get their team. 

Take your Isuzu license bidding process and shove it firmly up the APL's arse ...... regards you friendly neighbourhood South Melbourne Bitter.... Townsville, Cairns and Darwin have similar populations to Hobart... go fishing for suckers there next. ... maybe get one of these serious bidders to buy one of the 4 current licenses up for sale first, don't want to dilute the market. hahahahahahah

Interesting looking at the very first post on this thread, started 10 years ago.
Some pretty optimistic suggestions there.
You get the usual suspects:  Canberra, wollongong, Tassie, etc.  (it's always Tassie, never just Hobart).
Then you get some pretty far out suggestions:  Townsville, Geelong, Ballarat, Darwin, Cairns, etc.

Townsville has something none of those other options have: a decent stadium...
It's a shame the old FFA burned NQ, if they had actually supported the Fury the game would be in a better position. We might not have issues like two soulless Melb teams clogging up the ladder.

They definitely deserved more of a chance.
From memory, it got caught up in the failed WC bid.  Once that was dead, they felt they didn't need Townsville anymore.
But, not sure if things would have changed that much if they stayed a few more years.

NQ had some horrible luck.

Had two of the three major investors pull out months before they started.

Had the usual Stadiums Qld play extreme hard ball when negotiating as a summer tenant.
At one stage there was talk of playing at Tony Ireland Oval instead of Dairy Farmers at the time, in the end they needed 10,000 bums on seats just to break even.

Had the GFC severly impact investors, sponsors and the general publics pockets hip pockets.
Unfortunately as a summer tenant they copped some terrential conditions which would've been dreadful for attendances, those who went deserved a medal!

And they still drew bigger crowds than Melb City (non derby games), Macarthur and Western United. 

They also had Roar give their licence back while Fury were trying to raise local commitments to fund the club.  When local raising fell $1.5m short the FFA was left with having to fund Roar and an additional $1.5m above what it had committed for Fury.  It chose to cease the operation of Fury.

The FFA in that financial year made a loss of $4.6m on operating Adelaide until sold, operating Fury until it was shut down and taking on the running of Roar.