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localstar
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it.
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bettega
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. They all have their work cut out. There are A-League clubs who currently don't meet that strict criteria.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. Juve v Hellas in the first round (whether here or in Adelaide) will get a bigger attendance in March 2024 than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities..... (possible exception is if its Victory v United but if both games are in different cities the difference wont be THAT much)
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someguyjc
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I don't think NZ clubs are being considered for this. If we look at the EOI doc.
1.2 Purpose of this Invitation for Expression of Interest
The purpose of this Invitation for EOI is to:
(c) determine the level of interest from Australian football clubs to participate in a National Second Tier competition;
8.3 History and Culture
the History section asks applicants to outline "the Respondent’s historical and present contributions to the football landscape in Australia and in the Territory;".
Obviously these are probably not as strict as they may appear. However, I think one of the main purposes of the NST is to re-engage with the clubs that were effectively left behind. Selecting a NZ club over an Australian club purely for geographical diversity is not going to go down well if there are suitable Australian clubs that meet the criteria.
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Footyball
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+x+x+xWith pro/rel later on, are Welly and the new Auk team be willing to 'participate' in the NSD if any of them finish at the bottom part of the ladder, or do they get 'special treatment?' Stay tuned for more of the 'Bold and the Exciting!' Why would it be different to any other team that gets relegated? They would play in the second division and compete to get promoted back up. If there's an NZ team in the top flight, there's no reason there can't be one in the division below. The same happens with Welsh teams in England. But where would a NZ club be relegated to from the NST is the main issue? Being an Australian lot of competitions, relegation into the NSD from the A League, makes sense. That's how it goes with the other teams.
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Barca4Life
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I just listened The Global Game radio show when they interviewed FA CEO James Johnson and he said that the application process is open to all clubs including new entities and even doesnt rule out A-league Reserve sides applying too.
So it will be interesting to see how many will apply for this.
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Muz
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+xI don't think NZ clubs are being considered for this. If we look at the EOI doc. 1.2 Purpose of this Invitation for Expression of Interest
The purpose of this Invitation for EOI is to:(c) determine the level of interest from Australian football clubs to participate in a National Second Tier competition; 8.3 History and Culturethe History section asks applicants to outline "the Respondent’s historical and present contributions to the football landscape in Australia and in the Territory;". Obviously these are probably not as strict as they may appear. However, I think one of the main purposes of the NST is to re-engage with the clubs that were effectively left behind. Selecting a NZ club over an Australian club purely for geographical diversity is not going to go down well if there are suitable Australian clubs that meet the criteria. NZ can get farked. Bad enough Wellington are in there let alone some other mob. No to mention the costs of NSD sides having to fly there. Ridiculous. Let's hope you're right.
Member since 2008.
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df1982
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. Juve v Hellas in the first round (whether here or in Adelaide) will get a bigger attendance in March 2024 than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities..... (possible exception is if its Victory v United but if both games are in different cities the difference wont be THAT much) Perhaps, although I'm dubious. But the challenge isn't to get a one-off big crowd on the opening weekend for teams who haven't played each other in twenty years. It's to get a fanbase that comes back week after week, through thick and thin. This has obviously been something the A-League has been grappling with, and it's something the NPL clubs need to confront too, given that almost all of them play in front of triple-digit crowds most weeks.
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. Juve v Hellas in the first round (whether here or in Adelaide) will get a bigger attendance in March 2024 than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities..... (possible exception is if its Victory v United but if both games are in different cities the difference wont be THAT much) I love your enthusiasm but United are pulling 10k crowds this season. Firstly, they would have to host Juve v Hellas at Hindmarsh to pull that many. Are we saying Adelaide City's home ground would be Hindmarsh? Maybe but the rent is MASSIVE there. I know there will be a lot of interest in your game but Adelaide City vs United only got a few thousand at a suburban ground in the cup knock out. You'd think that was a massive grudge match if people still cared so much about Adelaide City yet even those few thousand were mainly United fans too
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ErogenousZone
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+x+xI don't think NZ clubs are being considered for this. If we look at the EOI doc. 1.2 Purpose of this Invitation for Expression of Interest
The purpose of this Invitation for EOI is to:(c) determine the level of interest from Australian football clubs to participate in a National Second Tier competition; 8.3 History and Culturethe History section asks applicants to outline "the Respondent’s historical and present contributions to the football landscape in Australia and in the Territory;". Obviously these are probably not as strict as they may appear. However, I think one of the main purposes of the NST is to re-engage with the clubs that were effectively left behind. Selecting a NZ club over an Australian club purely for geographical diversity is not going to go down well if there are suitable Australian clubs that meet the criteria. NZ can get farked. Bad enough Wellington are in there let alone some other mob. No to mention the costs of NSD sides having to fly there. Ridiculous. Let's hope you're right. Yep. Shits me no end that they're leaching off Australian football. Why can't the useless twats create their own professional league?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. Juve v Hellas in the first round (whether here or in Adelaide) will get a bigger attendance in March 2024 than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities..... (possible exception is if its Victory v United but if both games are in different cities the difference wont be THAT much) I love your enthusiasm but United are pulling 10k crowds this season. Firstly, they would have to host Juve v Hellas at Hindmarsh to pull that many. Are we saying Adelaide City's home ground would be Hindmarsh? Maybe but the rent is MASSIVE there. I know there will be a lot of interest in your game but Adelaide City vs United only got a few thousand at a suburban ground in the cup knock out. You'd think that was a massive grudge match if people still cared so much about Adelaide City yet even those few thousand were mainly United fans too Do you think Juve vs South at Hindmarsh would draw more or less of a crowd than WU vs Melb City at AAMI on the same day? (provided Adel Utd are playing away on that day of course)?
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset. FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL. No different from the ALM This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota. P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again. Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it. The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature".... I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt. If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a 16 club league with pro rel the very next season. I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same. I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario... Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one???? No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised. once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues. Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size. Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference): Sydney Olympic Sydney United 58 Marconi APIA Leichhardt South Melbourne Melbourne Knights Heidelberg United Preston Lions Peninsula Power Gold Coast United Adelaide City Wollongong Wolves Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point. Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be: Manly United Rockdale Ilinden Sutherland Sharks Blacktown City Avondale Bentleigh Oakleigh Perth Red Star Perth SC Brisbane City Lions Sunshine Coast Wanderers I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises. Adelaide City have their work cut out to make themselves presentable. But I hope they make it. Juve v Hellas in the first round (whether here or in Adelaide) will get a bigger attendance in March 2024 than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities..... (possible exception is if its Victory v United but if both games are in different cities the difference wont be THAT much) I love your enthusiasm but United are pulling 10k crowds this season. Firstly, they would have to host Juve v Hellas at Hindmarsh to pull that many. Are we saying Adelaide City's home ground would be Hindmarsh? Maybe but the rent is MASSIVE there. I know there will be a lot of interest in your game but Adelaide City vs United only got a few thousand at a suburban ground in the cup knock out. You'd think that was a massive grudge match if people still cared so much about Adelaide City yet even those few thousand were mainly United fans too Do you think Juve vs South at Hindmarsh would draw more or less of a crowd than WU vs Melb City at AAMI on the same day? (provided Adel Utd are playing away on that day of course)? well if United are away that day then your statement is ridiculous. Juve v Hellas will get a bigger attendance than any Aleague game being played in the same weekend in either of these cities Also your caveat ignores the possibility of Victory playing one of them you just chose the lowest two drawing teams after boldly stating any game in either city EVEN THEN.................... I actually wouldn't be prepared to bet money on it. Last time WU v MC happened they got 6,102.............
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bohemia
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Adelaide City was an NSL powerhouse but I don't like their chances of getting into the NSD if they are vying against other clubs with more suitable home grounds. Their facility at Oakden last I saw was a restaurant and a patch of dirt. That said, haven't lived in Adelaide for 15 years, but I know of no major works that have been completed there since.
Don't get me wrong, would love to see them in. Clubs with their history and contribution to the NT are at the heart of what the NSD is all about. I adored them as a kid.
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Capac
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+xAdelaide City was an NSL powerhouse but I don't like their chances of getting into the NSD if they are vying against other clubs with more suitable home grounds. Their facility at Oakden last I saw was a restaurant and a patch of dirt. That said, haven't lived in Adelaide for 15 years, but I know of no major works that have been completed there since. Don't get me wrong, would love to see them in. Clubs with their history and contribution to the NT are at the heart of what the NSD is all about. I adored them as a kid. There were expansion plans at Oakden pre covid but they didn't seem to go anywhere. I imagine if city make it this would be revisited. In the meantime I would think they would play at Marden or service FM stadium at Gepps Cross.
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simione001
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isnt adelaide city borderline bankrupt?
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Davide82
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+xAdelaide City was an NSL powerhouse but I don't like their chances of getting into the NSD if they are vying against other clubs with more suitable home grounds. Their facility at Oakden last I saw was a restaurant and a patch of dirt. That said, haven't lived in Adelaide for 15 years, but I know of no major works that have been completed there since. Don't get me wrong, would love to see them in. Clubs with their history and contribution to the NT are at the heart of what the NSD is all about. I adored them as a kid. I think it's very likely any 2nd division team in Adelaide will play at the new Gepps Cross facility the cup games were at. It's a nice little ground and seemingly already has the lights for broadcast
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Squidley
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I think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost.
Id imagine 4 from Melbourne
South Melbourne
Heidelberg United
Melbourne Knights
Bentleigh Greens
5 from Sydney
Wollongong Wolves
Sydney Olympic
Marconi
APIA
United 58
2 from QLD
GCU
Peninsula Power
1 from SA
Adelaide City
The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it.
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bettega
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^ reasonable guess
I would still love to see Canberra Croatia have a crack, merely from an asset point of view, they put the majority of Australian football clubs to shame, including at least half in the A-League
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someguyjc
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+xI think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. How do you know that? The FFA had no issues flying the ALM, ALW and ALY around the country. It doesn't cost anywhere near as much as people assume. Especially when it's only domestic and especially if some states have multiple teams (which is more than likely). Hypothetically let's use your 12 team league as an example. We'll also assume it's a home/away fixture which would be a 22 round competition. So that puts the total amount of games played at 132. You can then knock off 34, as the local NSW, local VIC and local QLD games do not require air travel. That leaves 98 games (maximum) that would require air travel. If they really wanted to penny pinch, that number could be reduced further by having teams play two away games in a row in a single state. Eg (R1 WW vs SM, R2 APIA vs SM). Then SM could have two home games to balance it out. It's also important to note that the FA don't pay the same airfares that we do. Airlines offer corporate deals for organisations that buy a bulk quantity of airfares over the course of the season.
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Squidley
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+x+xI think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. How do you know that? The FFA had no issues flying the ALM, ALW and ALY around the country. It doesn't cost anywhere near as much as people assume. Especially when it's only domestic and especially if some states have multiple teams (which is more than likely). Hypothetically let's use your 12 team league as an example. We'll also assume it's a home/away fixture which would be a 22 round competition. So that puts the total amount of games played at 132. You can then knock off 34, as the local NSW, local VIC and local QLD games do not require air travel. That leaves 98 games (maximum) that would require air travel. If they really wanted to penny pinch, that number could be reduced further by having teams play two away games in a row in a single state. Eg (R1 WW vs SM, R2 APIA vs SM). Then SM could have two home games to balance it out. It's also important to note that the FA don't pay the same airfares that we do. Airlines offer corporate deals for organisations that buy a bulk quantity of airfares over the course of the season. Understand where you are coming from, but i cna assure you travel is only subsidised for these teams, not completely covered. The main reason why the ALY was canned was travel costs. it ended up being a conferenced structure when it ended because of this reason too. When you break it down it isnt a huge amount of travel i agree, however there needs to be strong financial backing for it to work for a WA team to be involved. The longer a team stays away from home also drives up costs as the organsiation will be up for hotel bills the entire time they are on the road. Plenty of factors to consider when the bulk of teams will be in VIC and NSW.
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numklpkgulftumch
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Pretty sure the annual license fee will create the travel pool money for whole comp
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numklpkgulftumch
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The only seats at GCU are in the dugout and the canteen verandah
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Butler99
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+xI think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. Id imagine 4 from Melbourne South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Bentleigh Greens 5 from Sydney Wollongong Wolves Sydney Olympic Marconi APIA United 58 2 from QLD GCU Peninsula Power 1 from SA Adelaide City The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. So during peak NSL the club's couldn't go professional but now they can?? South Melb tried and nearly went bust. Reverted back to semi-pro after the Brazil money dried up. Why do we think now it is a viable option for these clubs to turn pro? Crowds lower. Sponsorship lower. Costs higher. Why do we think a second tier will drive more $$$ and fans to it? Sports fans are not interested in second tier sports. Sponsors are not interested. Media isn't interested. This doesn't make sense. I'm all for a second division. But the criteria currently set (no doubt with PFA input) will cause the application process to fail.
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df1982
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+xI think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. Id imagine 4 from Melbourne South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Bentleigh Greens 5 from Sydney Wollongong Wolves Sydney Olympic Marconi APIA United 58 2 from QLD GCU Peninsula Power 1 from SA Adelaide City The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. Funny we came up with almost exactly the same list (I just had Preston swapped in for Bentleigh, on the basis of their decent crowds). The best solution for a Perth team, to my mind, is to grant one a spot (probably Perth Red Star), but delay its introduction a year or two so that initial travel costs are kept low. A Perth team and the top NPL side could be introduced as the first expansion round of the NSD. Flights within the Bri-Syd-Mel-Ade corridor are actually pretty cheap, so without teams from Perth, NZ or NQ travel costs could be kept to a reasonable level.
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bohemia
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+x+xI think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. Id imagine 4 from Melbourne South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Bentleigh Greens 5 from Sydney Wollongong Wolves Sydney Olympic Marconi APIA United 58 2 from QLD GCU Peninsula Power 1 from SA Adelaide City The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. Funny we came up with almost exactly the same list (I just had Preston swapped in for Bentleigh, on the basis of their decent crowds). The best solution for a Perth team, to my mind, is to grant one a spot (probably Perth Red Star), but delay its introduction a year or two so that initial travel costs are kept low. A Perth team and the top NPL side could be introduced as the first expansion round of the NSD. Flights within the Bri-Syd-Mel-Ade corridor are actually pretty cheap, so without teams from Perth, NZ or NQ travel costs could be kept to a reasonable level. Before covid, MEL-SYD was the highest patronised flight route. In. The. World. I know people are in love with the "Australia is really big" argument, but in reality, travel costs in Australia are not much more than in a small country. Travel times are not so much worse either except for in the extremes with travel to Perth. Think about it. You don't fly 200km to another city within many European countries. Hell, Liverpool just got flamed internationally for doing exactly that. Anyways, you'd spend more time in the airport waiting than you would spend driving the team in a bus. A plane holds 10 times more people than a bus. There's your marginal costs right there. I agree with not including a Perth side upfront for a few reasons. Not necessarily just to protect the travel funds pool. I just don't think there are any particularly strong clubs there that contributed as much on a national level. For the obvious reason that the only one they have had is Perth Glory.
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Beretta
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+x^ reasonable guess I would still love to see Canberra Croatia have a crack, merely from an asset point of view, they put the majority of Australian football clubs to shame, including at least half in the A-League Canberra needs to have a team in the NSD. Whether it's Canberra Croatia or Canberra United new men's side etc. I feel they need to be represented.
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bettega
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Travel costs are quite high at the moment.
I'm going to Melbourne in the next couple of weeks, and airfares plus three nights 3.5 star accommodation sets you back 2 grand before you even worry about dining and spending money.
If you're travelling with a crew of, I don't' know, 16-17 players plus minimal coaching staff of 3 0r 4, that's 20 people, and I can't see that you are getting any change out of $30,000 if you're staying overnight.
This is why we're likely to see almost all the teams located in NSW/Vic.
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someguyjc
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+xTravel costs are quite high at the moment. I'm going to Melbourne in the next couple of weeks, and airfares plus three nights 3.5 star accommodation sets you back 2 grand before you even worry about dining and spending money. If you're travelling with a crew of, I don't' know, 16-17 players plus minimal coaching staff of 3 0r 4, that's 20 people, and I can't see that you are getting any change out of $30,000 if you're staying overnight. This is why we're likely to see almost all the teams located in NSW/Vic. The rates are commercial so they are lower than what the general public pays. When it comes to air travel, the FA will have a commercial deal with one of the Airlines. All the flights for all of the national teams, the future NST and any other FA support/admin staff is essentially be bundled together for a bulk pricing. The same goes with accomodation. They will have an agreement with a hotel chain(s) and receive better rates as they are purchasing alot. In 18/19 the FFA travel expenses for the A-League, W-League and Youth League was only $3.7m. That includes international travel to NZ and also includes road travel expenses. If we average that across the 3 leagues, it's $16.3k per game. Based on that, and knowing there will almost certainly be more clubs based in NSW and VIC and no international travel, we can safely estimate that the travel expenses will be between $1-2m depending on how many clubs are selected. I'd be pretty certain that travel expenses would be under 1.5. In the scheme of things travel is not a high expense for the NST, even with a team based in Perth.
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Davide82
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Guys, what's NST as opposed NSD?
I have seen people using it this week after years of using NSD.
Tier?
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someguyjc
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+xGuys, what's NST as opposed NSD? I have seen people using it this week after years of using NSD. Tier? The FA EOI doc uses the term National Second Tier (NST)
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