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Monoethnic Social Club
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Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculum National school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be.
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NicCarBel
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3K,
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+xso the other teams ranked 20-30 in fifa are senegal, iran, ukraine, south korea, austria, sweden, hungary, tunisia and wales I'm curious how many professional clubs they have in each of those countries? We have 9 until recently where we expanded to 11. We are about to get at least 10 semi-pro clubs in the nst with perhaps 3 more aussie clubs in the a league in a year or 2. I suspect that there is a good correlation between the number of professional clubs and fifa ranking/elo but not sure how to get good data as to which clubs are professional and which are semi-pro as you go down the leagues in these 2nd tier countries I'm going to use Wikipedia to answer this - so will be a very rudimentary answer with probably errors somewhere along the line: - Tunisia - 80 across 3 divisions
- Senegal - 30 across 2 divisions
- Wales - 12 teams in top division, but only 3 I can see the are deemed fully professional (6 I can't confirm), with another 4 professional clubs in the English league system. So, at least 7 professional clubs
- Iran - 16 in 1 league (only the Pro League is considered fully professional, but another 76 clubs across the next 3 divisions considered part of the 'professional pyramid')
- Austria - At least 28 across the top 2 divisions. Third division below of 48 clubs would probably have a few in there as well.
- Sweden - 32 across 2 divisions
- Hungary - Apparently the top 4 divisions are 'professional' so, that would make 94 clubs in the top 3 tiers, plus however many are in the fourth tier (can't find the number)
- Ukraine - 45 across 3 divisions
- South Korea - 25 across 2 divisions
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
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+xso the other teams ranked 20-30 in fifa are senegal, iran, ukraine, south korea, austria, sweden, hungary, tunisia and wales I'm curious how many professional clubs they have in each of those countries? We have 9 until recently where we expanded to 11. We are about to get at least 10 semi-pro clubs in the nst with perhaps 3 more aussie clubs in the a league in a year or 2. I suspect that there is a good correlation between the number of professional clubs and fifa ranking/elo but not sure how to get good data as to which clubs are professional and which are semi-pro as you go down the leagues in these 2nd tier countries Interesting methodology used here to determine world rankings. Austria, to the best of my knowledge haven't qualified for a World Cup for decades. They have 12 current Big Five players. They are a current failing national team paradigm, given the players they have developed. What is Hungary's recent status? They haven' t qualified for WCs for decades either - have they? How can they be in the top 32 ranked nations in the world? The rest listed have current international pedigree.
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xso the other teams ranked 20-30 in fifa are senegal, iran, ukraine, south korea, austria, sweden, hungary, tunisia and wales I'm curious how many professional clubs they have in each of those countries? We have 9 until recently where we expanded to 11. We are about to get at least 10 semi-pro clubs in the nst with perhaps 3 more aussie clubs in the a league in a year or 2. I suspect that there is a good correlation between the number of professional clubs and fifa ranking/elo but not sure how to get good data as to which clubs are professional and which are semi-pro as you go down the leagues in these 2nd tier countries I'm going to use Wikipedia to answer this - so will be a very rudimentary answer with probably errors somewhere along the line: - Tunisia - 80 across 3 divisions
- Senegal - 30 across 2 divisions
- Wales - 12 teams in top division, but only 3 I can see the are deemed fully professional (6 I can't confirm), with another 4 professional clubs in the English league system. So, at least 7 professional clubs
- Iran - 16 in 1 league (only the Pro League is considered fully professional, but another 76 clubs across the next 3 divisions considered part of the 'professional pyramid')
- Austria - At least 28 across the top 2 divisions. Third division below of 48 clubs would probably have a few in there as well.
- Sweden - 32 across 2 divisions
- Hungary - Apparently the top 4 divisions are 'professional' so, that would make 94 clubs in the top 3 tiers, plus however many are in the fourth tier (can't find the number)
- Ukraine - 45 across 3 divisions
- South Korea - 25 across 2 divisions
Thanks a bunch, NicCarBel!
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia.
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. Here are some of the progenitors of the football methodology the NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal. Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I haven't mentioned? Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they don't the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculum National school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans It comes down to culture. We get the Socceroos we deserve, and it starts all the way down on the bottom rung. Take Irvine and Duke, two key starters for Arnold's starting eleven. Duke has been playing in the lower Leagues in Japan for years. Yet not one of the clubs in the top tier of Japanese football wants him. Lets be clear- he is our starting striker, and scored in the World Cup. Not one top tier J-League club wants him. The there's Jackson Irvine- captain. He would never make a single Japanese NT, like ever, or at least in the last 30 years. Why do you think that is?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. Here are some of the progenitors of the football methodology the NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal. Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I haven't mentioned? Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they don't the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period. Has it ever been defined 1. what the Aussie pysche or mentality actually is, and 2. how unique it is?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Anyway what do we mean punching above our weight, anyway? Jagging the odd 1-0 against a higher ranked opponent? Are we punching above because our players are shit?
You know who punches above their weight? Croatia. Uruguay. They beat top football nations regularly and their players are not shit.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. Here are some of the progenitors of the football methodology the NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal. Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I haven't mentioned? Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they don't the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period. Has it ever been defined 1. what the Aussie pysche or mentality actually is, and 2. how unique it is? Dutch and Aussie leading coaches, TDs, etc, consider the Aus mentality in sport generally, and football in particular, is wanting to dominate games and be proactive. Conversely, the Italian style, influenced by Herrerra's lighting bolt/ catenaccio style, reactive football, thought to not being suitable for Aussie players because of the Aus deemed mentality. At the same time the Football AusTechnical Dept, the KNVB, and Clarefontaine, consider Italy has had sustained success playing reactive football based on opponents' mistakes. However, no other team has has the same sort of sustained international success doing what Italy have done so well. The Aus mentality being deemed similar to France, Netherlands, Germany, who like to dominate games.
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Decentric 2
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+xAnyway what do we mean punching above our weight, anyway? Jagging the odd 1-0 against a higher ranked opponent? Are we punching above because our players are shit? You know who punches above their weight? Croatia. Uruguay. They beat top football nations regularly and their players are not shit. Finishing 11th in Qatar is punching above our weight given how few players we have playing Big Five, or for the 30 odd big UEFA clubs in modest leagues. Croatia and Uruguay, plus Portugal and now Switzerland, consistently punch over their weight - given their small populations. They have 17, 8, 25 and 17 Big Five players respectively. In Uruguay's case they would also have plenty playing in the Brazilian and Argentinian leagues.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation. And now?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. Here are some of the progenitors of the football methodology the NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal. Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I haven't mentioned? Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they don't the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period. Has it ever been defined 1. what the Aussie pysche or mentality actually is, and 2. how unique it is? Apparently "mateship" is only something that occurs between english speaking people and athleticism and physicality is a uniquely Australian trait?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculum National school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans It comes down to culture. We get the Socceroos we deserve, and it starts all the way down on the bottom rung. Take Irvine and Duke, two key starters for Arnold's starting eleven. Duke has been playing in the lower Leagues in Japan for years. Yet not one of the clubs in the top tier of Japanese football wants him. Lets be clear- he is our starting striker, and scored in the World Cup. Not one top tier J-League club wants him. The there's Jackson Irvine- captain. He would never make a single Japanese NT, like ever, or at least in the last 30 years. Why do you think that is? No arguments here... Talent identification and development is and has been abysmal for a very long time.... Its NOT just on FFA, the Soccer Australia era is not blameless either....
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Hillbilly55
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If we look objectively, we have some very disappointing results against minnows. Ergo, our recent game against India. Similarly, we have had some very good results against more favoured teams, especially in the past World Cup. There is a theme going on here.
Not only have we become better organized in defending against better teams, and snagged the good result here and there, we similarly have found it more and more difficult to break down lesser teams. I suspect overall the skill sets of all teams have improved on what existed 20 years ago, hence it is getting harder for superior teams to consistently score heavily against the minnows.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. Here are some of the progenitors of the football methodology the NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal. Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I haven't mentioned? Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they don't the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period. I dont think there ARE any football geniuses, at least not int he way you want to apl,ly them anyway. Coaches and methodologies are of their time and come and go in cyclical fashion... Football evolves and changes sometimes in the span of one season let alone over decades.. Pep isnt playing Barca era Tiki Taka with Man City now is he? The "progenitors" you mention have, amongst themselves, vastly different philosophies of the game which have also adapted over time, absolutely fine to say that various aspects of coaching can be attributed to information gleamed from them but football isnt some high school history project where you can dump info from a bunch of different sources and "create" an assignment.... Give us YOUR opinion, football specific trained knowledge withstanding, not the ramblings of Platini (who coached France in the 8 year period they failed to qualify for a World Cup) or Van Gal the slug who single highhandedlyandedly destroyed the last true #10 hook the world has ever seen simple because he didn't like him at Barca and instructed a fairly solid Dutch side not to bother marking Messi in as he offered nothing in BPO" ... what a remarkable mind for football). Football Australia might feel the need for an "Anthology of losers" to direct to evolution of our sport here but I think Japan has something far greater to offer and, it looks like the building blocks of their success is to have more clubs NOT some bullshit focus group of librarians.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIf we look objectively, we have some very disappointing results against minnows. Ergo, our recent game against India. Similarly, we have had some very good results against more favoured teams, especially in the past World Cup. There is a theme going on here. Not only have we become better organized in defending against better teams, and snagged the good result here and there, we similarly have found it more and more difficult to break down lesser teams. I suspect overall the skill sets of all teams have improved on what existed 20 years ago, hence it is getting harder for superior teams to consistently score heavily against the minnows. Hitting teams on the break and scoring against the run of play isnt a direct result of technical players.....
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Barca4Life
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation. And both are rebuilding again, Germany won the u17 World Cup and have made some big changes at SSG level. Belgium also made big changes at SSG level earlier than Germany and seemingly starting to produce some very interesting young talent again.
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Barca4Life
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder. Geez you love playing the man not the ball dont you...
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Enzo Bearzot
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That's interesting. Do you know what the changes they've made are?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation. And both are rebuilding again, Germany won the u17 World Cup and have made some big changes at SSG level. Belgium also made big changes at SSG level earlier than Germany and seemingly starting to produce some very interesting young talent again. By focusing on development at club level rather than relying on federation perhaps?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder. Geez you love playing the man not the ball dont you... Mate, not really... Im talking about Japan not having a bullshit national rulebook and relying on building clubs to better their football and old mate plays the "better than Greeks" card..... seriously?
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Barca4Life
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder. Geez you love playing the man not the ball dont you... Mate, not really... Im talking about Japan not having a bullshit national rulebook and relying on building clubs to better their football and old mate plays the "better than Greeks" card..... seriously? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not, being divisive isnt the way to go about it.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation. And both are rebuilding again, Germany won the u17 World Cup and have made some big changes at SSG level. Belgium also made big changes at SSG level earlier than Germany and seemingly starting to produce some very interesting young talent again. By focusing on development at club level rather than relying on federation perhaps? Is that what they're doing?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? They went Brazillian decades ago. There is also the cultural difference in terms of what type of player is seen as fitting their football culture that will also be the type that gets picked by youth coaches to progress up the junior ranks. I'm convinced our failures to produce technical players at the senior is more due to the coaches who choose physicality over footballing ability-that's our "culture". Sort of my point though. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/asia-youth-development-japan-lead-the-way/3yawy7my1Main points for me: Whilst they do have a JFA "academy" that is pay to play most players are "developed" through J league and other club academies that are very price accessible No national "one size fits all" curriculumNational school tournaments are very big deal and some finals can get 50 thousand fans Both Germany and Belgium recently had a one size fits all curriculum. Germany's program yielded 3rd place in 2010 and Champions in 2014. Belgium's program didn't achieve the same results in tournaments, but it did produce some of the best footballers in the world of this generation. And both are rebuilding again, Germany won the u17 World Cup and have made some big changes at SSG level. Belgium also made big changes at SSG level earlier than Germany and seemingly starting to produce some very interesting young talent again. By focusing on development at club level rather than relying on federation perhaps? Is that what they're doing? I am not 100% sure but I do remember reading that the German Federation underwent a major restructure and part of the plan was to allow greater flexibility at club level... A few on here are either in Germany or associated with German football perhaps they can advise?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder. Geez you love playing the man not the ball dont you... Mate, not really... Im talking about Japan not having a bullshit national rulebook and relying on building clubs to better their football and old mate plays the "better than Greeks" card..... seriously? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not, being divisive isnt the way to go about it. Fair enough point taken, Ill just have to put up with the slings and arrows then.
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johnjade
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWe struggled against India says it all at this stage. We struggled to score but apart from their one good chance from the header they did not threaten us.Credit to them for committment in their defending but their game plan was all about limiting the score. The first game in a tournament is always difficult as many better teams than us have found in WCs so getting the win is paramount. Given this is wrong thread, good to see posters like you post the realistic and positive response to Aus's start against India, Booney. Thankfully, there is now an emerging cohort of educated football fans and stakeholders in Aus, who embrace the Asian football milieu - and all the benefits for Aus football. If you saw the India game as a "positive start" to the competition Decentric then your precious FFA accreditation isnt worth the photocopy paper it was printed on.... The educated cohort milieu of embracing stakeholders can all hold hands and chant their jargony phrases till the mythical "11th in the world cup" result is repeated but that first half against India was probably the worst thing I have seen in 2 decades. Agree that 1st half was horrific. Aaron Mooy is big loss of skill in midfield. But Arnold really needs to get over hacking players like Duke, Behich, Baccus, Jones etc. 2nd half saved by McGree and Boyle finally providing some service I think Baccus and O'Neill are playing the Mooy role quite well. It is more of a question of muscular, power midfielders like Irvine and Metcalfe, being exposed trying to play through a compact block - when we had the ball. Also, Goodwin needs to play at his best. Boyle often tries to beat players by outpacing them, which rarely works and he gets knocked off his feet a lot. With the 21 and under whizz generation coming through, the likes of Irvine will never be selected for Aus in the future. He just hasn't acquired the first touch to play Big Five. The best he can do in rapidfire ball circulation, is the one touch pass. If there is enough time he has good body position for the one foot pass to teammates in confined space. Where Irvine breaks down, is the two touch receive and pass. The first touch is often to take the ball away from one's marker. The second touch is passing the ball. His handling speed he is too slow, and his footwork is inadequate. It was very frustrating watching him against India, despite his other qualities. O'Neill is our best at two touch and one touch passing, like Mooy prior. The entire Japanese team is brilliant at this. They have 8 Big Five players, possibly heaps of footballers in the 30 odd big clubs in modest UEFA leagues, and the J league must be really good too. Japan's ball circulation is so much quicker than other Asian Cup teams. Which leads to the OBVIOUS question how are they doing so if they dont have the technical panacea of the KNVB and Clairfontaine like our whizz bang technicians do? As others have stated, they have gone completely Brazilian in their methodology and NC. They and are about 15- 20 years down the pathway of their 50 year plan. They have invested big bucks in their system too. About 5 years ago Arsene Wenger anointed Japan as having a world class development system . In Aus there is no money for football development, and football development runs on an oily rag. I'm not sure who you are watching ATM? The younger Aussie players, 21 and under, coming through are very good technically. They are products of the new Aus development system, having been inculcated it for 10 years or so. I'd also anoint the entire Japanese football system overall, only outside the Big Seven leagues in world football. Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal may possibly be marginally in front of Japan too. Japan could even be in front of Switzerland, Croatia and Mexico. Thjey DONT have a NC Decentric... Their coaching system relies, at least at the base, quite heavily on volunteers and high schools and also runs quite frugaly. There are more than one way to skin a cat however Football Australia, seems to not even know what a cat looks like. I understand your "anointing" hither and tither, it is hard to be objective about something when you have been indoctrinated in the "system" and we can all be guilty of assuming our interpretation of issues is the correct one however Arsene Wenger, Hans Berger and Graham Arnold are not the football geniuses you want them to be. What you don't seem to be aware of , MOE, is that a lot of rationale that I present for an Aus NC, is based on football boffins from Football Aus. It is not my personal opinion, although I've been influenced by persuasive arguments. I defer to football experts. Plus the Tech Depts of KNVB, Clarefontaine, German Football Fed and Spanish Football Fed, particularly Barca Academy, are the sources for our current football direction in Aus. They've addressed Aussie audiences, held workshops and coach education sessions/courses that I've attended in Aus. National systems have been deemed to work effectively in those powerhouse football nations over a sustained period. You exude a smugness that these practices are not suitable for Aus - or not working. If you want to disagree with the rationale and practice in those nations, and us following suit, it is your prerogative. Do you think we should adopt the Greek Football Fed's methodology in Aus instead of the four big powerhouses in Europe? Football Aus have had staff coaches visit Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, and even Japan, to evaluate sound football methodological practices that can be extrapolated to Australia. Incorrect Decentric, I (and everyone else I assume) am very aware that you sing from the same old tired FFA hymn book. I just dont agree with the message nor the application. As for your barely disguised bigotry about "Greek football" methodology supposedly being championed by me because I am an Australian of Greek ancestry well, I guess that's your prerogative. A sad reflection on what "multiculturalism" really means in Australia in 2024... Thanks for the reminder. Geez you love playing the man not the ball dont you... Mate, not really... Im talking about Japan not having a bullshit national rulebook and relying on building clubs to better their football and old mate plays the "better than Greeks" card..... seriously? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not, being divisive isnt the way to go about it. Fair enough point taken, Ill just have to put up with the slings and arrows then. MOE - have never posted before but read with interest most posts!! Talk about singing from the same hymn book!!! It's good to know that EVERYONE except you is racist!!!!
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