Just how much are the socceroos punching above their weight?


Just how much are the socceroos punching above their weight?

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localstar
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Decentric 2 - 17 Jan 2024 10:47 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jan 2024 10:02 AM

Here are some of the progenitors of the  football methodology the  NC is based on - Rinus Michels, Michael Platini, Victor Maslov, Valery Lobanovski, Tito Vilanova, Johann Cruyff, Louis Van Gaal.

Which 'football geniuses' do you think Australia needs to improve us further, that I  haven't mentioned? 

  Football Aus have discarded the ideas of Angel Herrerra, Charles Reep and Charles Hughes. The former's concepts have been discarded because they  don't  the suit the Aussie psyche or mentality. The latter two, because their ideas have not extrapolated to success in international football over a sustained period.

Don't think "Football Australia" have ever been influenced by the ideas of Reep and Hughes.

"Football Australia" didn't exist in the 1950s.Your beloved national curriculum didn't exist back then.

You will pull any old rabbit out of the hat to support your agenda.
charlied
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Decentric 2 - 17 Jan 2024 11:30 AM
Enzo Bearzot - 17 Jan 2024 10:58 AM

Dutch and Aussie leading coaches, TDs, etc, consider the Aus mentality in  sport generally, and football  in particular, is wanting to dominate games and be proactive.

Conversely, the Italian style,  influenced by Herrerra's lighting bolt/ catenaccio style,  reactive football,  thought to not being suitable for Aussie players because of the Aus deemed mentality.

At the same time the  Football AusTechnical Dept, the KNVB, and Clarefontaine,  consider Italy has had sustained success playing reactive football based on opponents' mistakes.  However, no other team has has the same sort of sustained international success doing what Italy have done so well. 

The Aus mentality being deemed similar to France, Netherlands, Germany, who like to dominate games.  

Psuedo psychology babblespeak. 'Like to dominate games'?  So from this we can assert that other countries enjoy being dominated? What is this? Football S&M?
The amount of nonsense that has been spouted about Australian athletes without a shred off evidence... 
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johnjade - 17 Jan 2024 6:48 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jan 2024 3:18 PM

MOE - have never posted before but read with interest most posts!!
Talk about singing from the same hymn book!!! It's good to know that EVERYONE except you is racist!!!!

Thanks for your comment johnjade. Not entirely sure which race or ethnicity you feel I discriminate against but would be willing to read your thoughts... or do you need to log out and log back in again?
Enzo Bearzot
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Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jan 2024 1:21 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 17 Jan 2024 11:05 AM

And now?

I missed this

. I don’t know what they’re doing now, but both Germany and Belgium used  similarly centralised national development concept like we did at the same time we did, Do there’s nothing wrong with that approach per se.

Obviously their outcomes were much better at producing highly technical footballers than we were. 

I believe it’s due the implementation rather than the concept of everyone singing from the same hymn book

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Enzo Bearzot - 18 Jan 2024 11:05 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jan 2024 1:21 PM

I missed this

. I don’t know what they’re doing now, but both Germany and Belgium used  similarly centralised national development concept like we did at the same time we did, Do there’s nothing wrong with that approach per se.

Obviously their outcomes were much better at producing highly technical footballers than we were. 

I believe it’s due the implementation rather than the concept of everyone singing from the same hymn book
No, there is nothing wrong with the approach I agree, but whats is frustrating is not acknowledging that results show that method needs to be reviewed every now and again no?


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Enzo Bearzot - 18 Jan 2024 11:05 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jan 2024 1:21 PM

I missed this

. I don’t know what they’re doing now, but both Germany and Belgium used  similarly centralised national development concept like we did at the same time we did, Do there’s nothing wrong with that approach per se.

Obviously their outcomes were much better at producing highly technical footballers than we were. 

I believe it’s due the implementation rather than the concept of everyone singing from the same hymn book

They have the pick of the best athletes. We don't. 
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charlied - 18 Jan 2024 1:55 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 18 Jan 2024 11:05 AM

They have the pick of the best athletes. We don't. 

Not really, they have other sports to compete with as well, they are just way better at identifying footballers at a young age and knowing what should be done to develop them into world class players.... It helps they have hundreds of professional clubs to help them do this as opposed to 11.
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Enzo Bearzot - 16 Jan 2024 8:32 PM
Decentric 2 - 16 Jan 2024 1:14 AM


Bos could simply be the exceptional talent rather than the rule. Until I see a squad  of players with technical ability like Bos, I'll hold the champagne.

I watched Irankunda close up for the first time at the game on Sat night between SFC & Adelaide, this guy has raw speed & power, he has spacial awareness & technically sound, I had keep reminding myself he is only 17 years old, not surprised Bayern Munich came for him.
Likewise with another young Adelaide player in Johnny Yull, very technically sound, Chelsea came for last year but was knocked back. Likewise I thought with Gridwood-Reich & Hollman (his brother even better for MacArthur) for SFC, all very technically sound.


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robbos - 19 Jan 2024 11:23 AM
Enzo Bearzot - 16 Jan 2024 8:32 PM

I watched Irankunda close up for the first time at the game on Sat night between SFC & Adelaide, this guy has raw speed & power, he has spacial awareness & technically sound, I had keep reminding myself he is only 17 years old, not surprised Bayern Munich came for him.
Likewise with another young Adelaide player in Johnny Yull, very technically sound, Chelsea came for last year but was knocked back. Likewise I thought with Gridwood-Reich & Hollman (his brother even better for MacArthur) for SFC, all very technically sound.


I'm also replying to Enzo's previous post. 

At the time of viewing it, I hadn't had access to watching a lot of Aus players aged 22 and under. Enzo stated he accepted that Bos  has considerable technical talent, but was't sure about his cohorts.

I've watched quite a few young AL players and 5 complete matches of the Under 23s - where they haven't been defeated in 90 mins of football against Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, South Korea and Iraq.

Australia never had a full strength squad. Vidmar must have played about 30 odd players, to evaluate what  they could do under similar match conditions and to trial even younger players than 21-22.  Others tell me that the opposition nearly always  had full strength squads. In  this case the performance and results indicate there has been a technical improvement in the younger players having had 8-11 years of the new Dutch/French/Spanish style NC. 

I  identified improvement  as particularly apparent in two footedness, use of both sides of body use, first touch, handling speed, ball carrying and 1v1 attacking skills.

One issue that is still apparent is too many Aus players still tackle with their preferred foot, rather than use both  sides of the body to tackle. This can result in body shape that isn't optimal when tackling.

Australia was more tactically sound than all oppenents which enhanced performances. Probably only Egypt and Saudi Arabia were marginally better technicians than the Aus U 23s who turned out.

Girdwood-Reich I hadn't thought was as technically sound as Circati or Natta as CBs, based on Aus U 23 performances or senior Socceroos. Haven't seen Johny Yull - yet. Look forward to it. Corey Hollman is a superb all round player, and a decent technician. Ditto Nieuwenhof.

The players that are really impressing me with  their technique on the ball are the even younger Voladan ( only a Melb Vic bench player at senior level), Youlley and Segecic. The first two in particular need to do a lot of work in their game off the ball, but when they  have the ball at their feet, they are of class we've struggled to produce. 

From what I'm seeing, if few of these players make the Big Five UEFA leagues, there are also about other 40 Big Clubs in UEFA, who consistently play intra-continental UEFA football, a greater  percentage of our footballers are going to be playing in these leagues or the 40 Big Clubs like Ajax, Sporting Lisbon, Standard Liege, Grasshoppers, PAOK, etc. If they don't get there, they will be more likely to play in other clubs in  Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland,  etc, who play club games against them. 

Many of the 40 Big Clubs would be better than the mid and lower rankled teams in the Big Five leagues. I'd surmise PSV Eindhoven, Ajax, Anderlecht, Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Shakta Donesk ( prior to the war) would beat the lower ranked teams in the Big Five leagues.

ATM Grazor posted  some sort of coefficient that Aus should have about 10 Big Five players according to our national performances. A lot of the punching above weight appears to be due to sound tactics and being a savvy international team unit.



 
Edited
Last Year by Decentric 2
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charlied - 17 Jan 2024 9:56 PM
Decentric 2 - 17 Jan 2024 11:30 AM

Psuedo psychology babblespeak. 'Like to dominate games'?  So from this we can assert that other countries enjoy being dominated? What is this? Football S&M?
The amount of nonsense that has been spouted about Australian athletes without a shred off evidence... 

With due respect,  these findings have been arrived at by the then FFA Tech Dept - Han Berger, Rob Baan, Kelly Cross, Jan Versleijen, Alistair Edwards, et al. 

They also believe that the Italian psyche, is they like to draw other teams in and spring traps as the masters of Reactive football. That Italians are keener to not have the ball,  like to track runners, and launch counter attacks, than other world football powerhouses.
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charlied - 18 Jan 2024 1:55 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 18 Jan 2024 11:05 AM

They have the pick of the best athletes. We don't. 

True.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 18 Jan 2024 2:00 PM
charlied - 18 Jan 2024 1:55 PM

Not really, they have other sports to compete with as well, they are just way better at identifying footballers at a young age and knowing what should be done to develop them into world class players.... It helps they have hundreds of professional clubs to help them do this as opposed to 11.

Not only that. Divide our population by 4 and we still have more people than Croatia and Uruguay to pick just 2.


Member since 2008.


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charlied - 17 Jan 2024 9:56 PM
Decentric 2 - 17 Jan 2024 11:30 AM

Psuedo psychology babblespeak. 'Like to dominate games'?  So from this we can assert that other countries enjoy being dominated? What is this? Football S&M?
The amount of nonsense that has been spouted about Australian athletes without a shred off evidence... 

New to the forum are you?

Hahahahaha this 'babblespeak' is par for the course. It's all about milieu dear boy, the milieu.




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Edited
Last Year by Munrubenmuz
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