Arthur
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The FFV plans to disband the VPL as the top tier competition await the FFA's review of State competitions due in March 2011. The FFV has put their plan forward to the FFA and it awaits their response. Quote:[size=8]COMMENT: Victorian Premier League future in crisis18.11.10 | Andrew Slevison[/size] The future of the Victorian top flight competition is in doubt after existing clubs found out about plans by Football Federation Victoria to dismantle the Victorian Premier League in the format that has operated for over 20 years. These plans could spell the end of great clubs such as Melbourne Knights, South Melbourne, Green Gully and Oakleigh Cannons to name but a few. The plans involve dropping all existing clubs back into the lower State League competition and then replace the VPL with a new elite competition and a whole set of new clubs. These new clubs will start with a clean slate and no history. They will be sought out by a new tender process and it is believed the current VPL clubs are holding crisis meetings to counter FFV plans. If this occurs, it will put a dampener on the plans to hold a nation-wide ‘FA Cup’, which tribalfootball.com commented on earlier this week. We wanted to know what would be the best name to give the competition but this news indicates the Cup may now not even go ahead if these touted plans come through, or if it does, established outfits as mentioned above may not be a part of it. The major support of clubs such as the Knights, South Melbourne, Oakleigh and Sunshine threatens to be derailed which will affect the mooted national cup competition and deny fans of these VPL clubs any A-League interaction. Melbourne Knights and South Melbourne didn’t make the cut when the A-League was formed in 2005 and may now be completely disregarded if this sensation comes to fruition. Will Victorian clubs rich in history accept this? I doubt it. Clubs who have nurtured the development of players who are now running around on Australian pitches week in-week out in the A-League and who have gone on to represent the national team will feel aggrieved if they are to be so easily disposed of. What FFV should do is try and copy the model of football (soccer) in the United States and Canada. It starts with MLS (Major League Soccer) at the top end with USL (United Soccer Leagues) sitting below. Clubs have to apply to get in, rather than promotion and relegation, representing regions rather than communities. To completely erase a current competition would be an absolute farce and FFV must reconsider what they are about to do. It will be a sad day for football in this country if the VPL is shut down and Football Federation Australia must step in to disallow this potentially damaging event. So when the FFA Cup starts Melbourne Victory will be playing Northern Allstars and Melbourne Heart will playing North East Diamonds in the battle for the worst American 'nick name'. Its enough to make you want to follow AFL. Edited by Arthur: 20/11/2010 10:28:58 PM
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Felixx_17
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Very interesting situation we have developing.
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chris
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donlt stress Arthur - in this game its who throws the last punch that counts - not the first
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Benjamin
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Don't think this will effect the 'traditional' clubs at all. We will compete against each other to be the best of whatever league we are allowed to play in.
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WastedYouth
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fcuking bullshit. Im sure it wont go ahead though, the FFA cant lose one of its best leagues and many good clubs to some stupid FFV new franchise league.
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heart4ever
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What a great idea. Maybe many A-League supporters like myself who don't follow the State League because they can't relate to their local ethnic state league club, might at long last find a club to follow in the new competition as well. What a great idea to start with a clean slate and new clubs. I bet the new League won't have any trouble attracting media, business, television and supporter interest. Just like the A-League did. Please make it happen for the sake of the game.
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Some.Guy
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heart4ever wrote: What a great idea. Maybe many A-League supporters like myself who don't follow the State League because they can't relate to their local ethnic state league club, might at long last find a club to follow in the new competition as well. What a great idea to start with a clean slate and new clubs. I bet the new League won't have any trouble attracting media, business, television and supporter interest. Just like the A-League did. Please make it happen for the sake of the game.
you sir are an ABOMINATION !! no chance in hell FFA will aprove of this and nor should they. I imagine Bozza just spat up his coffee after reading this [-(
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RedEyeRob
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heart4ever wrote: What a great idea. Maybe many A-League supporters like myself who don't follow the State League because they can't relate to their local ethnic state league club, might at long last find a club to follow in the new competition as well. What a great idea to start with a clean slate and new clubs. I bet the new League won't have any trouble attracting media, business, television and supporter interest. Just like the A-League did. Please make it happen for the sake of the game.
hmmm yes of course... you don't have a state league team to follow just like you didn't have an A-League team to follow like Victory - until the Heart joined the comp? :shock: :shock:
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heart4ever
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Some.Guy wrote:heart4ever wrote: What a great idea. Maybe many A-League supporters like myself who don't follow the State League because they can't relate to their local ethnic state league club, might at long last find a club to follow in the new competition as well. What a great idea to start with a clean slate and new clubs. I bet the new League won't have any trouble attracting media, business, television and supporter interest. Just like the A-League did. Please make it happen for the sake of the game.
you sir are an ABOMINATION !! no chance in hell FFA will aprove of this and nor should they. I imagine Bozza just spat up his coffee after reading this [-( No sir. I'm not an ABOMINATION!! I'm simply a football fan who believes a move to to start the state league with a clean slate might be the very thing the state league needs so it can attract more sponsorship and more people to its games, just like the A-League proved to be what the national league needed to attract more media coverage, more dollars and more fans to its games. But that's all too much for a SILLY KNOB like you to comprehend, I bet.
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southmelb
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Benjamin wrote:Don't think this will effect the 'traditional' clubs at all. We will compete against each other to be the best of whatever league we are allowed to play in. If this goes through the current vpl will become the states 2nd tier, so the best state league players will obviously play in the new comp, the standard of the vpl will drop off to about state league 1 level, state 1 to state 2 etc, for the first time ever promotion to the states top flight wont be achievable. I think our clubs are in trouble to be honest, the only thing is i cant see our clubs giving venues to these new franchisers to play at, one way or another football in this state looks like it will be dead within 3 years one way or another, incredible when you think that the vpl 5 years ago was attracting bigger crowds than the vfl..now its being disbanded!
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southmelb
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heart4ever wrote:Some.Guy wrote:heart4ever wrote: What a great idea. Maybe many A-League supporters like myself who don't follow the State League because they can't relate to their local ethnic state league club, might at long last find a club to follow in the new competition as well. What a great idea to start with a clean slate and new clubs. I bet the new League won't have any trouble attracting media, business, television and supporter interest. Just like the A-League did. Please make it happen for the sake of the game.
you sir are an ABOMINATION !! no chance in hell FFA will aprove of this and nor should they. I imagine Bozza just spat up his coffee after reading this [-( No sir. I'm not an ABOMINATION!! I'm simply a football fan who believes a move to to start the state league with a clean slate might be the very thing the state league needs so it can attract more sponsorship and more people to its games, just like the A-League proved to be what the national league needed to attract more media coverage, more dollars and more fans to its games. But that's all too much for a SILLY KNOB like you to comprehend, I bet. :lol: nobody is gonna go to games, nobody will invest in it either, yeh the ffv will promote it but nobody will care, especially in summer when the A league is already on! i can just imagine everyone ditching a Victory game to go watch the big clash between the Northern All Stars v Central City Slickers:oops: its gonna pain me to see my state be the laughing stock of football in this country, but in a way i'll kinda have to enjoy it as well as the ffv will take 1 massive hit.
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Arthur
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The proposed Zone competition of the FFV will only be able to be financed one way and will be by increasing player registrations, team registration and affiliation fees.
A form of taxation without representation, and yet again the grassroots pays.
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skeptic
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And what grounds will these new private clubs use? Are the ffv going to legislate the state leagues clubs must forfeit their community grounds and assets to a private owner?
They can't be serious with this, can they? Brand spanking new, assembly line, private, amateur clubs, straight off Big W's generic replacements shelf and replacing all existing state league clubs?
Honestly, what's the motive? Total removal of all participation in Vic. football by anyone that meets the wrong ethnic heritage requirements? Total privatisation of the sport from the grass roots level, up? What's the motive?
Why do you blokes put up with what will obviously cause the slow death of your clubs, and not break away? Our laws allow the freedom to do so and ffv, ffa and fifa could fart in the wind. Their approval isn't needed.
I can imagine the uproar if this was the attempted against the sydney state leagues clubs.
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GloryPerth
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I really don't know what to make of this, except yeah maybe it ties with a wider goings on and indeed with the FFA Cup, it may actually make ALOT MORE sense IF you end up having some new Melbourne state league team facing an AU, Jets or whoever in a Cup tie, as opposed to Knights or whichever other club's 'fans' with flares and trouble, which leads to the dredging up of the bad old days of negative publicity and potentially damaging the more 'accessible' mainstream reputation this league has tried to build since the reforms. Though yeah, on flip side, a good part of me thinks it WOULD be VERY NICE if the old NSL clubs COULD have that chance to play in the FFA Cup and so have the chance to face the A-League sides, including Victory and Sydney FC. That would be quite special, IF there was no off field trouble or whatever. A potential special occasion. But on the latter, then again, I kind of think in my kind of 'new convert' kind of way, that why can't the Knights, South Melbourne fans and co, be ALSO Victory or Heart fans - why can't they be both? (So rendering a literal rivalry kind of non existent) But then a few will probably tell me that's a foolish proposition and that you are either one of the other, but in saying that, a few of those lot probably also proudly follow Barcelona, Arsenal or whoever, on the side, but that's ok, because they're a European club (Queue, Euro snobbery). chris wrote:donlt stress Arthur - in this game its who throws the last punch that counts - not the first What an odd comment, turn of phrase to use especially one that evokes a more conflict driven nature the very thing the old NSL clubs should be trying to leave behind them (Ala flares, fights and ethnic conflicts on the news).
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sugoibaka
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skeptic wrote:And what grounds will these new private clubs use? Are the ffv going to legislate the state leagues clubs must forfeit their community grounds and assets to a private owner? Good point. And where is the money going to come from? Existing VPL clubs have ties to their local business community that these proposed new clubs will struggle to get. And how much of a joke it will be that the current clubs will have infrastructure of a level well above that of these new plastic clubs. FFV is an abomination. Fuck them off.
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sugoibaka
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GloryPerth wrote:But on the latter, then again, I kind of think in my kind of 'new convert' kind of way, that why can't the Knights, South Melbourne fans and co, be ALSO Victory or Heart fans - why can't they be both? I know plenty of Victory fans who are also fans of VPL clubs, nothing new here. But one shouldn't be surprised that (die hard) fans of former NSL clubs haven't jumped on board Victory or Heart, after the shafting they got at the commencement of the new league.
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skeptic
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GloryPerth wrote:chris wrote:donlt stress Arthur - in this game its who throws the last punch that counts - not the first What an odd comment, turn of phrase to use especially one that evokes a more conflict driven nature the very thing the old NSL clubs should be trying to leave behind them (Ala flares, fights and ethnic conflicts on the news). Absolute bloody rubbish, Glory. A phrase that means they will be survive long after generic clubs have not. And for God's sake leave flares out of it. I've seen more in the last 6 years, and on television at that, than a few decades of attending nsl matches. And may I say, mainly by the fans of the other, non ethnic, generic, private Victorian club, Victory. Stop the ridiculous and intentional fearmongering that only looks at home on Pauline Hanson and her uneducated, 'white or wrong" ilk.
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GloryPerth
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skeptic wrote:GloryPerth wrote:chris wrote:donlt stress Arthur - in this game its who throws the last punch that counts - not the first What an odd comment, turn of phrase to use especially one that evokes a more conflict driven nature the very thing the old NSL clubs should be trying to leave behind them (Ala flares, fights and ethnic conflicts on the news). Absolute bloody rubbish, Glory. A phrase that means they will be survive long after generic clubs have not. And for God's sake leave flares out of it. I've seen more in the last 6 years, and on television at that, than a few decades of attending nsl matches. And may I say, mainly by the fans of the other, non ethnic, generic, private Victorian club, Victory. Stop the ridiculous and intentional fearmongering that only looks at home on Pauline Hanson and her uneducated, 'white or wrong" ilk. Well maybe I did jump to interpret it that way (And you are somewhat right, yes, some Victory fans have done so too - but the media don't jump on it, isolate it, like the past - though don't mean to go on that tangent), but really, as I described above, these moves could well relate to the FFA Cup and wider goings on, and maybe, just maybe, as part of the reforms they are not too keen on seeing, say, a Knights or South Melbourne facing the A-League clubs especially Victory? Though IF that is the sole motivator, then this is a mighty step to take JUST for that. I'm guessing they were planning to do this for a while obviously.
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Joffa
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Rather than it being about the State League teams playing in the FFA Cup competition...wouldn't it make more since that this is about a second tier comptition and having that comprise regionally broadbased teams?
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Arthur
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Joffa this isn't the second tier the FFV is talking about this is the third tier, the current VPL would be disbanded and you would effectively have zone leagues (much like AFL's or crickets district leagues)SMFC playing in the Central Zone. What others don't understand under this plan,is a club like SMFC would be asked to invest in "Central City" (the zone representative club)if it and other clubs did not invest then revenue would be sought elsewhere. Private investment may be sought, but seriously who is going to invest in a zone club where you don't "own the players" and the FFV expects an annual licence fee of $150K. Thats why I,m saying if the FFV is pig headed enough to push this through then they will have to self finance the teams. The FFV will have no otion but to levy Clubs and players to finance it. Which leads me to my comment that grass roots will be expected to pay for it. You will all get a better understanding from this; http://www.awfa.asn.au/site/images/stories/pdfs/080523%20-%20summer%20league%20-%20explanatory%20memo%20-%20final.pdfEdited by Arthur: 21/11/2010 05:24:09 PM
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skeptic
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GloryPerth wrote:
Well maybe I did jump to interpret it that way (And you are somewhat right, yes, some Victory fans have done so too - but the media don't jump on it, isolate it, like the past - though don't mean to go on that tangent), but really, as I described above, these moves could well relate to the FFA Cup and wider goings on, and maybe, just maybe, as part of the reforms they are not too keen on seeing, say, a Knights or South Melbourne facing the A-League clubs especially Victory? Though IF that is the sole motivator, then this is a mighty step to take JUST for that. I'm guessing they were planning to do this for a while obviously.
And why do the media not jump on it? Well, ask the tabloid television, like ACA or TT, what has the biggest ratings and sells the most advertising? Ask the tabloid newspapers if some biff at anglo aussie clubs, regardless of the sports, sells newspapers and will the same biff at a perceived ethnic club, be it Marconi in soccer or the Bulldogs in NRL be pushed by the paper from a very different angle and therefore sell more? The tabloid media and to a less extent, most of Australia's media, play on an underlying bigoted sentiment that exists in Australia and rears it's ugly head if and when given a vehicle to do so. The fault of both the media and the target bigots. Now, other than bleaching olive, brown and black skin nice and white, ( I don't know how to achieve that) change non British sounding names by deed poll and never, ever, speak in public unless you have a nasally, slow moving accent overflowing with true blue slang, I don't know what the hell 'ethnic' people can do to prevent uneducated, classless bigots from being what they are. Do we solve bigotry by simplistically removing the target of the bigotry so we can say it doesn't exist any more or do we tell the bigots to get the hell over their irrational complex and not make policy according to their wishes?
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GloryPerth
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You guys have a go at the FFV, but who makes up the FFV? Are they people who were around pre-Crawford reforms? And just to say, I doubt southmelb that your club will be in trouble, nor too Melbourne Knights or other higher profile Victorian league clubs. You will always have the support of your community base, as too that built on the the more positive side of your clubs' reputations. I mean many football fans around Australia have heard of your clubs thanks to the NSL days, let alone within Melbourne, so I'd hardly think you two would 'die.' skeptic wrote:GloryPerth wrote:
Well maybe I did jump to interpret it that way (And you are somewhat right, yes, some Victory fans have done so too - but the media don't jump on it, isolate it, like the past - though don't mean to go on that tangent), but really, as I described above, these moves could well relate to the FFA Cup and wider goings on, and maybe, just maybe, as part of the reforms they are not too keen on seeing, say, a Knights or South Melbourne facing the A-League clubs especially Victory? Though IF that is the sole motivator, then this is a mighty step to take JUST for that. I'm guessing they were planning to do this for a while obviously.
And why do the media not jump on it? Well, ask the tabloid television, like ACA or TT, what has the biggest ratings and sells the most advertising? Ask the tabloid newspapers if some biff at anglo aussie clubs, regardless of the sports, sells newspapers and will the same biff at a perceived ethnic club, be it Marconi in soccer or the Bulldogs in NRL be pushed by the paper from a very different angle and therefore sell more? The tabloid media and to a less extent, most of Australia's media, play on an underlying bigoted sentiment that exists in Australia and rears it's ugly head if and when given a vehicle to do so. The fault of both the media and the target bigots. Now, other than bleaching olive, brown and black skin nice and white, ( I don't know how to achieve that) change non British sounding names by deed poll and never, ever, speak in public unless you have a nasally, slow moving accent overflowing with true blue slang, I don't know what the hell 'ethnic' people can do to prevent uneducated, classless bigots from being what they are. Do we solve bigotry by simplistically removing the target of the bigotry so we can say it doesn't exist any more or do we tell the bigots to get the hell over their irrational complex and not make policy according to their wishes? Oh well I don't disagree with the targeting of ethnic elements (to typically use 'fear' to sell) and indeed, it was never fair when the media did that. But I just recall time and time again, the only time the mainstream news media were ever interested in the NSL, was when there was conflict or trouble. BTW I can understand the context behind the trouble, ESPECIALLY WHEN the conflicts in the old Yugoslavia were still ongoing through the 90s, including the Croatian War of Independence which only saw the Croatian National Football team formed/official recognised in '94, to then impress at Euro '96 and then make their famous run at the '98 World Cup ofcourse. If you are trying to turn this into a go at the A-League, then that is a whole 'nother, well run, tangent. And ofcourse yes, if people are still going to insist on being unfavourable to the code and the influence of migrants on it, then they will never be favourable. But that hardly accounts for the majority ofcourse and tying in, yes the tabloid media's views hardly reflect the interests of the majority, though with poor trends in the wider media these days, that can be hard to tell. Edited by gloryPerth: 21/11/2010 06:11:37 PM
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Heart_fan
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I dont think these changes will have any benifit. The fact is that making a state league relevant to the broader community is hard in any sport.
The current structure is fine for the VPL, as it atleast has history and relevance to its communities. A clean slate, with teams that will have no meaning to anyone, in a secondary competition will struggle.
When it comes to the highest tier though nationally, it must be broadbased teams to help build an inclusive environment. Without that we will just be a target for media and competitors to rip us apart, as it will just play into every steriotype that they already think about us.
Edited by heart_fan: 21/11/2010 06:16:43 PM
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skeptic
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GloryPerth wrote: If you are trying to turn this into a go at the A-League, then that is a whole 'nother, well run, tangent. And ofcourse yes, if people are still going to insist on being unfavourable to the code and the influence of migrants on it, then they will never be favourable. But that hardly accounts for the majority ofcourse and tying in, yes the tabloid media's views hardly reflect the interests of the majority, though with poor trends in the wider media these days, that can be hard to tell.
Edited by gloryPerth: 21/11/2010 06:11:37 PM
If I want to turn it into a go at the aleague I'll scream it in your face and then scream it again and again. Fella, read what I write and nothing fucking more, because there isn't any. Understand? I don't need an excuse to abhor bigotry and the way of the world means many don't need an excuse to ignore it.
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macktheknife
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Great idea. Wish it could happen here. I could support a club for Fairfield as a whole, and not feel excluded because I'm ethnically Australian (even though I've lived in Fairfield my entire life).
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skeptic
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macktheknife wrote:Great idea. Wish it could happen here. I could support a club for Fairfield as a whole, and not feel excluded because I'm ethnically Australian (even though I've lived in Fairfield my entire life). Fella, with an attitude like your's and your habit of shite stirring based on stirring ethnic tensions, you need a damn good hiding and sent back home to mummies tit. By fucking christ, I'm betting if you did cop a hiding for stirring, you'd scream blue bloody murder and add it to your list of reasons to hate ethnics. Honestly, even as a 6th generation aussie of Brit and German heritage, I'd not piss on you or anyone else with that attitude, if on fire, but by christ, i'd conduct the hiding in a flash.
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Benjamin
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I am curious to know where the money will come from to fund these new 'franchise' sides.
At the moment, the funding is 'bottom up' - the clubs fund the FFV. They get nothing back from the FFV.
If this happens, I would be surprised if we didn't see all of the older clubs resign en masse and form their own competition.
Meanwhile, to all those saying they don't feel able to follow their local state league side because of ethnic issues... Really? Have you ever actually gone along - or are you just assuming that you will be lynched for being too white?
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skeptic
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Quote:I'm ethnically Australian What's your definition of 'ethnically Australian', please?
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southmelb
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Something that really irritates me about this is that it will kill the fabric of local soccer in Victoria.
What seemingly started out as a crusade to eliminate the old nsl clubs will now punish the Victorian system as a whole, how would past Victorian champions who are now playing in the lower divisions like Port Melbourne, Bulleen etc feel about this? knowing their clubs will never be able to compete at the highest level of Victorian football again, this little stunt by the ffv is threatening to wipe out a whole lot of history....history that goes beyond ex nsl clubs, i've got so many great memories of the vpl even when South was playing in the nsl, seeing the demise of nsl was a hard pill to swallow, but to see our highest tier in the state go by the way side will just about kill my interest for good, its a real shame because the vpl was a great competition back in the nsl days, it was even greater when the ex nsl clubs joined it 5 years ago (record crowds) and it still would have been great now if those selfish morons at the ffv didnt try and sabotage it.
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Benjamin
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Proud clubs, who kept the game alive when nobody else could give a f*ck... Pushed further and further away from the game.
The point I was trying make a few posts above - is that at the moment the state league clubs give far more to the FFA than the FFA gives to them. I'm not sure how 8-12 privately funded regional 'franchise' sides could actually compete financially with the traditional clubs who's income won't ultimately be effected by this restructure.
I'm very curious as to what the FFV or FFA could do if the clubs were to resign and form their own competition. The clubs income would remain unchanged, but they would no longer have to pay fees to the FFV.
The thing is - if people worry about the gap between the old and the new now, you ain't seen anything compared to what may happen if this restructure takes place.
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