If you don't like being accused of being a duck, then don't look like a duck, act like a duck, quack like a duck, and don't keep putting your big webbed feet in your even larger billed mouth.

The problem with numbskulls like yourself is the lack of common sense, intelligence and decency to realise why people might take offence to your quacking.

My contribution to this argument... :P

I'll try to be inspirational

Take a good look at the above picture

Yep its a football

Look a little closer....guess what it's round

Look even closer - and you will see many panels stitched together and there you have it.....the finished product - a nice round football

In Australia each panel is representing a section of our football community in this country stitched together to provide the end product - a beautiful football - nice and round

By ignoring or downgrading ethnic clubs in this country is like peeling a panel off the football for each community that gets relegated and the game will never be completely rounded

FFV Plans are to strip football of its panels - to introduce a new shape and to implement an AFL System



Edited by chris: 24/11/2010 01:09:54 AM

Can't say i agree with that, the FFA can't control what FNSW goes around telling the media.

I'd say this review was waiting to be done until after the FFA charter was signed, because before that day, the states had no reason to have to abide by the reviews findings, say for example if it does find that for football development it would be best for the state leagues to play over winter, if FNSW didnt want to change back from summer then there was no way the FFA could force them too, now FNSW would be breaking its signed charter agreement, and gives some ammunition to the FFA to get things done.


The other reason i think it was anounced this week is due to the FFA doing the information gathering with the media, HAL clubs CEO's & state bodies last week, whilst it was not directly related to this perhaps certain aspects that say affected the FFA cup format were discussed and these opinions can then be forwarded to the NCR panel.

Anyway you are right ... the FFA are re-active, I just get the feeling not this time.

How were they shafted? They were simply anachronisms that didn't fit the future path. You're right in supposition that the perception of being shafted remains strong in a select few. I have no problem with this. It's unfortunate for them, but they make up the inevitable detritus that is a necessary part of change.

That said, i'd be very concerned about relegating the old clubs down the hierarchy even further. These clubs remain an elemental part of Australian football. To undercut them would be to the detriment of the grassroots and remove much of the authenticity that is painfully lacking in our game.

There must be a way that these clubs can meaningfully engage with the new order. Wouldn't mergers between some of the old clubs, or these clubs being structural investors in brand new entities be the best option? They cannot remain ethnically identified clubs in teh new order, that much is evident and anyone who thinks otherwise is engaging in delusion. But they MUST be afforded the opportunity of active engagement - to openly and transparently put their cases forward as to why they should be a part of future football.

=d> =d> =d>

It's fairly obvious even to a non-NSL follower with a cursory knowledge of what happened. But that whole subject has been done to death here and elsewhere, so I don't imagine you being swayed from your stance.



They can contribute cash, facilities and infrastructure/resources developed over decades, but not actually participate without being emasculated? Yeah, right....



I'm not sure other than being financially viable and up to it in an administrative sense that they have anything they need to prove. Why do they need to be cleansed of their ethnic origins?


Edited by sugoibaka: 24/11/2010 05:42:25 PM

I don't get how people can seriously suggest some of the old NSL clubs merging with rivals. Can't imagine any club that's been around for 50+ years would let that happen.

Seriously. I don't even know where to start with this post. Your arguments are so circular, they are a phenomenon of linguistc and argumentative geometry.

Its not the origins they need to "cleanse" (your word, not mine)its their current day, here and now relevance that they need to re-adjust, and that's why I mentioned mergers and invstment in new entities. I don't care about origins, I care about what the clubs mean NOW. And what the clubs mean now, is not what's written in their constitutions, not what the directors think they mean, not what their websites claim them to be, not even what their apostolic fans want them to be - its what the communities at large perceive them to be. Like any brand their existence and meaning rest with the market.

And right now they remain an anachronism - misplaced entities out of kilter with the movement of the times. I mention things like mergers and new investments because these things give the clubs the platform to reinvigorate, to move forward, to regain amd maintain relevance outside of their closed and increasingly dwindling cohorts of fans. Its not ideal for these clubs I understand. But really, do you honestly believe that they have a choice long term?

To some, the idea of a merger to create a new, reinvigorated entity (which by nature is expansive and more more inclusive) seems abhorrent. And there in lies the problem. That the very idea of a coming together, the very idea of pluralising what is singular, can be so distasteful to some, says much about how undedicated some people really are to the growth of football in the mainstream.

Marconi United HNK :shock:

To me, that's not pluralism, it's economic rationalism. Pluralism is many different models operating in the same sphere with equal rights to existence and prosperity.

where have you been hiding?:d

Where the fuck did you rip that out from, 'Auditing Weekly'????

Football clubs around the world belong to its members and fans. They couldn't care less what others think of them. Go ask any Barca, Inter, Liverpool, Bayern fan. As if they give a shit what Real, ManU, Juve think of them.

Sporting franchisers belong to fickle customers such as your mainstream self. Enjoy.

Yep the market will decide the relevance and existence of any enterprise, even the HAL. If not for continual FFA welfare and handouts the HAL would already be dead. Hopefully the $45 million they received from the govt for the WC bid went directly towards the actual bid.

I have been on Mars for the last decade, in a cave, with my eyes shut and my fingers in my ears.

Governing body in keeping league solvent shocker.

Then why do you care if you don't support.

Love my VPL and my A-league. Pleasure to watch players like Matthew Leckie take the next step.

Why do you need a club to follow in the state league if you already support the Heart Franchise? Or are you one of those guys that need a team in every competition so it is relevant for you.

The fact remains the NSL died a painful death, which had no money and no relevance to TV broadcasters, sponsors or the broader public, which you need to have onside for growth to occur. Football is a business, which needs to grow to succeed. The HAL might not be a financial success yet, but has many more elements going for it than the NSL did, which is fundamental to comparing the position we are in today, compared to the days of Soccer Australia and the NSL.

Franchises might be a dirty word to you, but its the only relevant business set-up that could realistically work in starting up new sporting teams. It does lack history, but also comes with less baggage, which some teams unfortunately were carrying.

Truth be told, people will never be happy. Theres so many out there that want to see things fail just to strengthen their own positions, which unfortunately are those calling themselves football fans. Politics ruins the game of football worldwide and thats unlikely to change.

People can support more than 1 team you know, particularly when they are in different leagues. Do we expect to grow the local game if we all just support one team in one comp only? Thats a very myopic vision you are trying to state.

The new league will have limited success though, as there will be those left out in the process, whether its because the current structure is kept or a new model is put into place. Whichever way the FFV turn it will be the loser in one way or the other, it will just be a matter of which way has more potential to grow the game in this state.

Yeh you're right, the NSL did die a painful death but most of the clubs in it are still around with their assets, volunteers etc and will continue to do so unfortunately for you. The HAL lost more last year than what the NSL did in its entire existence. If that keeps up then it to will lose its relevance eventually. Market forces will dictate the path the HAL will go and at the moment its not really happening eh?. That's business unfortunately. How long can ANY business sustain multi million dollar losses in a competitive and crowded marketplace.

What do you expect clubs and its fans to do if they keep on being dudded, humiliatted, marginalsed etc. Just sit their and take it? What world do you live in? Disneyland?

As i said above, it has now become public:

Very interesting get RedEyeRob, I'm not sure how to respond except to say maybe the pendulum has swayed too far the other way?

Let me respond for you Arthur:

The clubs want to appoint and pay their own person to sit at the FFSA office and run the competition based on the super league and premier league club requirements.

Most clubs have been attending meetings together following much disgruntlement. And then a couple of the clubs (appointed by this consortium) have met with the FFSA board to advise them of their intentions and preferences.

Doesn't this sound extremely familiar to what's happening in the A-League, the NSW Premier League and the Victoria Premier League of late???

It's funny that the ONE thing most clubs and franchises in this country want, is also the same thing that was recommended in the Crawford report, and is also the same thing the governing bodies won't give up: CONTROL of THE LEAGUES.

Yes, the pendulum has swayed too far.

Clubs, regardless what level they play in require the following.......... and unless it is implemented in Australia - the game will never reach its potential

Ambition - Just like a player has ambition to play at an elite level - the reason he/she trains so hard day in day out in the lower leagues for hours each week - under paid (if at all) and under recourced - they keep up the work because there might be an opportunity for them that one day they will be an elite player and all their hard work will pay off

Clubs are the same - volunteers put in the building blocks - many talented and professional people put in the effort - either via boards - committees - consultancy levels because they have the same dream as these players - to what day participate at an elite level

We are not all gifted footballers - many of us have a dream to play at an elite level whether it be on a park or of it via a club we love - that is why many put in countless hours - they do not get paid for it

This proposed structure By the FFV - places a cap on clubs along the lines of "you will never ever be nothing more than a community club" - this proposal closes that dream and with it the ambition - and with it the talented people that hold these clubs in place

You cannot replace this type of football culture with money - the startegy should be to get the best out of this culure - not replace it - because you cannot replicate this level of football knowledge

The question that needs to be asked is, what is the right mix of club/FFA control? Either party having sole power is a not a good thing, and nothing will change my opinion on that.

The issue with clubs having too much control revolve around self-interest, and lack of support of the broader sport which may occur. This has happened in the past, which is one of the main reasons that the changes were made in the structure in the past decade.

The FFA/State Federations having continued sole control raises issues around independance of the comps and the ability to operate away from the deals that the FFA are locked into. Those include sponsorship limitations, which are a major issue currently for HAL clubs.

Its about finding a balance that is sustainable that has the games best interests at heart, not a few people making power plays, whether it be the FFA, State Federations or the clubs.



Edited by Heart_fan: 30/11/2010 09:10:27 PM

That's why there should be elections....open elections.....including the states and the clubs......you know....majority rules

Too early for that.

It will come, but the fact is that elections do not solve many issues, they create more, especially in football, especially if the structure/environment is not right at this time.

The structure needs to be agreed upon by stakeholders, then we can move on. Thats what the structure review will do.



Edited by Heart_fan: 30/11/2010 09:48:24 PM

I think the ffa/ffv will take a step back after losing the WC bid to be honest.

A step back, or a step down?

I wait with bated breath on the results of the NCR.

Wouldn't wait with too much interest RedEyeRob, if the results of the NCR aren't in line with Lowy's thinking, he'll do what he wants and blame old sokkah if it doesn't work out.